The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

This is what is being taught around here to a large degree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFXpsSin ... e=youtu.be

DarthMonk

That looks like a neck injury waiting to happen. I was always taught to hit with your shoulder, with your head to one side. Head straight back like that looks dangerous as hell to me.

Deadskins wrote:That looks like a neck injury waiting to happen. I was always taught to hit with your shoulder, with your head to one side. Head straight back like that looks dangerous as hell to me.

... and yet this is what they are teaching to, supposedly, reduce injury. What gives? I'd love to get more feedback - particularly from coaches.

PS - To any grammar Nazis - I like to purposely split infinitives.

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

Deadskins wrote:That looks like a neck injury waiting to happen. I was always taught to hit with your shoulder, with your head to one side. Head straight back like that looks dangerous as hell to me.

... and yet this is what they are teaching to, supposedly, reduce injury. What gives? I'd love to get more feedback - particularly from coaches.

PS - To any grammar Nazis - I like to purposely split infinitives.

DarthMonk

You like to split Infinities? You can't split a car, stupid!

Yeah, that doesn't look right to me, at all.

DarthMonk wrote:This is what is being taught around here to a large degree:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFXpsSin ... e=youtu.be

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

Deadskins wrote:That looks like a neck injury waiting to happen. I was always taught to hit with your shoulder, with your head to one side. Head straight back like that looks dangerous as hell to me.

... and yet this is what they are teaching to, supposedly, reduce injury. What gives? I'd love to get more feedback - particularly from coaches.

PS - To any grammar Nazis - I like to purposely split infinitives.

DarthMonk

So I talked to a coach today after he viewed this video. His comments were amazing. He asked me what directed me toward this video and his reasons for wanting to know became apparent later.

He referred to an evolution in tackling over the past decade. The main proponent of the modern method is a guy named Bill Williams.

This guy has been coaching coaches, including NFL, since 1990. He's renown in coaching circles.

http://www.murrietarams.org/Bill_Williams_Clinic

Excerpt:

Bill Williams is considered one of the premier football technicians and clinicians in the nation. Besides conducting open enrollment clinics, he annually presents in-service staff clinics and individual consulting on all phases of football for coaches on the High School, Collegiate, and NFL levels of competition.

Last year Coach Bill Williams conducted in-service staff clinics for high schools in California, Arizona, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Texas, and Oklahoma. On the Collegiate level, staffs in the PAC 10, WAC, Big 12, Big 10, ACC and Big East Conference incorporated his teaching progressions. Bill's resume includes recent consulting clinics for the Dallas Cowboys, San Francisco 49ers, Pittsburgh Steelers, Miami Dolphins, San Diego Chargers, New York Giants, and New Orleans Saints.

He was an all-star free safety in the CFL and helped Auburn to a national title.

The evolution is a change from sholuder hit, horizontal arms wrapping, head to side (blow to side of neck?), knockover/dragdown to a breakdown, set, upward explosion through the ball carrier, with vertical arms and a bull neck resulting in little or no contact with the head.

The coach I spoke with was shocked I'd forwarded such an email. He said the coach in it had perfected the presentation and drilling of the technique better than anyone he'd ever seen.


Here is an excerpt from a disciple's summmary:

A correct tackle incorporates the fundamentals of the
1. Approach
2. Contact
3. Finish

Approach- While nearing the ball carrier the tackler keeps his eyes on midsection of ball carrier, closes the distance and take away a side (open field- “no 2 way goes”), and gathers his momentum.

A. Know which angle to favor. Where the help is coming from, sidelines, position on the field.

B. “Breakdown” at a distance of 1 – 3 yards before ball carrier. Gather your momentum, be under control and have a base slightly wider than shoulder width.

C. Assume the “quarter eagle” position (weight on toes, knees bent, back flat, head up, shoulder pads out, chest out, shoulders rolled back, neck “bulled”, eyes up, hands cocked at side “in the holsters”). In this position the knees should be over the toes, and the shoulders should be over the knees (90-degree angles in the knees and hip), “Z’s in your knees”, “keep your tail down and eyes to the sky”. (Rich Fong- LA Baptist HS)

D. Be at a leverage height. Get low, “eyes at football level”.

E. Step on the toes of the ball carrier (get as close to the runner as possible before exploding into him. “smell his breath”, “don’t lunge” (don’t extend shoulders past the toes).

Contact- This is the coordinated skill of making contact in the correct position while exploding the hips, thrusting the arms and utilizing the power of the legs and lower back.

F. Keep your head up and eyes open while you "bull" your neck.

G. Stay square to the ball carrier- this limits arm tackles and causes ball carrier to fall forward.

H. Keep a wide base on contact.

I. “Hit on the rise”- explode up at a 45-degree angle.

J. “Club the arms”- from low to high (from the “holster position” to the arm pits of ball carrier). (Bill Williams- FCPGA)

K. “Shoot the hips”- role them forward by straightening the angle of the midsection from 90 degrees to 45 degrees rapidly. This is where the athlete gets the power surge (A.K.A- “POP!”).

Finish- The combination of the well-executed contact and the subsequent leg drive allow the tackler to finish the ball carrier by placing him on his back.

L. Squeeze and grab the cloth of the ball carrier immediately, tackler keeping elbows in.

M. Pull the ball carrier toward you while continuing to hold on tight. This will prevent ball carrier from spinning away and keeping pursuit from knocking you off the tackle. “No ping pongs” (Bill Williams- FCPGA).

N. “Drive the knees and chatter the feet”- run through the ball carrier by driving the knees up and accelerating the feet rapidly while keeping a wide base (knees should be outside the frame of the body). “Drive through the tackle”.

O. Drive ball carrier straight back- this is done by continuing to squeeze the ball carrier tightly and the tackler turning his hips parallel to the endzone. "Drive the hip around"

P. Finish the tackle by continuing to run the feet or by allowing the defensive pursuit to swarm and take the ball carrier to the ground.

Q. If all else fails, be patient, hang on, and help will come. Many a ball carrier has been pushed for extra yards due to overzealous tackling. Know which endzone your protecting, and whether you have the luxury of forcing the direction the ball carrier falls. This might also provide opportunities for teammates to strip the football.

^^^^^^^^^

That's exactly the technique I have to use on the wife when I'm in the mood for a little something in the bedroom...

emoses14 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

Deadskins wrote:That looks like a neck injury waiting to happen. I was always taught to hit with your shoulder, with your head to one side. Head straight back like that looks dangerous as hell to me.

... and yet this is what they are teaching to, supposedly, reduce injury. What gives? I'd love to get more feedback - particularly from coaches.

PS - To any grammar Nazis - I like to purposely split infinitives.

DarthMonk

You like to split Infinities? You can't split a car, stupid!

Actually, you can.



InfiniTIVES, bro. To boldy split as William Shatner once did before!

emoses14 wrote: Yeah, that doesn't look right to me, at all.

Hope you've been keeping up. I think there's more here than meets the eye.

DarthMonk

Nice Infinity split!

Yeah, read through your expository post. Very enlightening.

I'm attending a tackling camp by Hosea this week. I'll let you know what I think if anyone's interested.

I would be interested

many years ago I played rugby and basically we were taught that a player could not run much if his ankles were together
we also were taught to try and hit the other player with your shoulder about hip high and try and slide down with the arms locked around the legs

when I played there were no pads or headgear allowed unless there was a valid reason


tackling technique in the NFL is different and IMO is not coached or practiced enough - hitting seems to be the preferred method today

Back when I played in late 70's and early 80's. We were taught to bull our neck, like in the video, for 2 reasons. #1 to protect your neck. #2 to see what your hitting.

My coach told us to feel at the base of your neck and you will feel a small ball. If you don't have your neck bulled, and you hit head first, all the pressure of the impact goes into this small ball and you may never walk again. Thats all I needed to hear, my neck was always bulled after that.

I see I saw I conquered.
Carry on.
I was taught to pile drive kids at a young age...

I am seeing the tackling technique (espoused in the original post and outlined later) more an more. The runner might pancake the tackler on occasion but he goes down after maybe one more yard and no one gets hurt. I'm seeing it more from young guys and from college players. I'm seeing it mostly from linebackers. Corners seem to go for body blocks and safeties seem to do a lot of head hunting ... you know ... like this guy:



I have my son lifting. He will attend two tackling camps this summer.

I Coach at high school here in AZ and we do a lot of similar drills for tackling. Don't get this confused with the video of the player flying through the air at RG3. This is not teaching kids to leave there feet when they tackle almost like supermanning into the ball carrier. NO NO NO!! That would be horrible technique kids must run through their tackle or they will get ran over. In the video it shows them doing all that diving on bags just to work the hips.. The power comes from there hips and explosion like a power clean! So having kids do that really helps them work that hip thrust and the more you explode your hips the more your head gets thrown back. You really have to work that with younger kids b/c if they can get the hip explosion it forces them to keep there head up. You probably have all scene the players who just bend at there back to tackle and run through the bag. That is how you get hurt b/c without the pop your head stays down. My only critique in the video is having the players thrown their arms back before they tackle. I call it loading up to tackle. That is not how it should be taught. They should start with their hands infront of them in ( Hit position) B/C 8 out of 10 times players don't have time to load up to tackle someone they get in that habit it will slow them down. Great video I really enjoyed watching it. I have been to a lot of clinics and never seen tackling drills with such good use of the sleds. Also loved how he added the chutes before the bags to make sure the players were breaking down the proper way before making the tackle staying nice and low!

skinsfb4life wrote:I Coach at high school here in AZ and we do a lot of similar drills for tackling. Don't get this confused with the video of the player flying through the air at RG3. This is not teaching kids to leave there feet when they tackle almost like supermanning into the ball carrier. NO NO NO!! That would be horrible technique kids must run through their tackle or they will get ran over. In the video it shows them doing all that diving on bags just to work the hips.. The power comes from there hips and explosion like a power clean! So having kids do that really helps them work that hip thrust and the more you explode your hips the more your head gets thrown back. You really have to work that with younger kids b/c if they can get the hip explosion it forces them to keep there head up. You probably have all scene the players who just bend at there back to tackle and run through the bag. That is how you get hurt b/c without the pop your head stays down. My only critique in the video is having the players thrown their arms back before they tackle. I call it loading up to tackle. That is not how it should be taught. They should start with their hands infront of them in ( Hit position) B/C 8 out of 10 times players don't have time to load up to tackle someone they get in that habit it will slow them down. Great video I really enjoyed watching it. I have been to a lot of clinics and never seen tackling drills with such good use of the sleds. Also loved how he added the chutes before the bags to make sure the players were breaking down the proper way before making the tackle staying nice and low!

Nice comments. Breaking down is so key. I love it when the coach goes "bddddddddddddddddddt" and the break down.

Like Deadskins (first reply), I was taught to hit with my shoulder, head to the side. No one mentioned head up or eyes at the ground, although a shadowy memory says we were told to keep our eyes on the ball carrier...he might be shifting. This was about 1960, and I can understand how that technique led to spearing, and spearing to injuries to offense and defense. I well remember Mike Bass's last tackle. he was the Redskins CB who played opposite Pat Fischer in the '70s. Fine player.

On his last play, Bass went low, drove his shoulder toward a ballcarrier's left leg. Right knee came up and hit Bass square on top of the helmet. He suffered a "jammed neck". Doctors warned Bass that his neck had been weakened; another tackle might break it.

Mike Bass was, I think, destined for great things... VERY talented corner... physically gifted and technically excellent... of the "lock down" variety. I remember the play, too... it was a terrible shame.