Front 7

kerrakpoFTW · Post by **kerrakpoFTW** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:41 am

Seeing how my username is a combination of my two favorite current redskins, my first topic might as well be about them right?

Profootballfocus sometimes has some really good equations sometimes, and I really think they nailed it with evaluating pass rushing productivity. If you look at their site, last year Orakpo and Kerrigan both finished in the top 20 with their analysis of rushing the passer: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... e-rushers/

I know everyone is really high on talking about our offense with all the recent additions and of course RG3, but I think the defense is being greatly overlooked. With Kerrakpo rushing the passer so effectively I think it also shows how underrated our line is with Bowen, Cofield, Carriker, and Jenkins returning. Not to mention Fletcher and Perry Riley gaining valuable experience last year and looking like a stud. I can very much see this front 7 being one of the absolute best in football this season.

Thoughts?[/url]

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:01 am

I think the important thing will be depth. It's great that we were able to re-sign a couple of key rotation guys in Carriker and Golston. Balmer, Scott and Worthington, among others, will have a nice little competition to make the team as well.

I believe Jenkins is going to come back even better than what he was showing the preseason last year. Cofield and Bowen should each be improved with a year under their belt as well. Neild seems to be an ideal fit at NT when Cofield needs a breather or when we go to a beefier line in certain situations.

As far as the edge rush, Orakpo and Kerrigan have a chance to be the elite duo in the NFL. If Orakpo can add a move other than the bull rush, he would be unstoppable. I expect Kerrigan to be even better after becoming more comfortable in a stand-up role compared to having his hand in the dirt in college. He is going to be a beast.

Bringing Wilson back is a good addition, IMO. He, along with Jackson, White and Alexander, will be perfect for the type of depth and competition behind the two starters. All of those guys are contributors on special teams as well. (OMG being a contributor everywhere, but I digress)

Fletcher is still a great player, leading the NFL in tackles last year and is an invaluable leader on the field and in the locker room. Riley and Robinson may be the future starters for years to come. I'm excited to see what they can do. Goff was a solid addition, having started in NY. An upgrade from the depth we had last year.

There's a couple other fringe guys who I'm leaving out, but for the most part I am excited about this group. Putting pressure on the QB will be key and will help the secondary a great deal as well.

Looking forward to vast improvement this season. Hopefully everyone can stay healthy.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:19 am

YUP!
-welcome to the board btw..

Kerrigan had a beast of a rookie year and I expect him to just get better. I read somewhere that Rak was amoung the top or at the top of the nfl for qb pressures. Im sure we all hope to see him get to the next level and get the damn qb to the ground. Ie see puke game.
As for the whole front seven I'm excited.. aswell as for the whole team in general. The fo brought in a crap load of players to battle at every position be it starter for or back up. Curious who wins both safety positions, as well as nickel back. Then to see how the oline wr rb te spots fill out on the roster.. its gonna be a much improved and different looking team

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:24 am

I think our front seven will improve dramatically with the addition of Jenkins, another year in the system, and most importantly hopefully increased offensive production.

If the O can put up more points and get leads they will be able to pin their ears and rush the passer.

emoses14 · Post by **emoses14** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:28 am

Robert Griffin, III is my favorite and most looked forward to addition this year.

Jenkins is my second favorite, and quite frankly I might be even more excited to see what he can do this year than RGIII. ONly because I think Jenkins contibution this year may elevate that front 7 to elite status. Pretty sure RGIII can't do that for the offense this year.

No one else even comes close.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:42 am

kerrakpoFTW wrote: ... I know everyone is really high on talking about our offense with all the recent additions and of course RG3, but I think the defense is being greatly overlooked. With Kerrakpo rushing the passer so effectively I think it also shows how underrated our line is with Bowen, Cofield, Carriker, and Jenkins returning. Not to mention Fletcher and Perry Riley gaining valuable experience last year and looking like a stud. I can very much see this front 7 being one of the absolute best in football this season.

Welcome to the site - this is a very good start

the defense will be a better unit this season - the key to helping the secondary is to have a more effective front 7 doing their jobs

we also need to keep players healthy

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri May 25, 2012 12:37 pm

I have never seen a player get held as much as Rak does... yet, it's almost never called. He needs to get a bit more "dramatic" when he's being held, to help draw a few of those calls... and it would eventually help to open him up more.

Deadskins · Post by **Deadskins** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:19 pm

Countertrey wrote:I have never seen a player get held as much as Rak does... yet, it's almost never called. He needs to get a bit more "dramatic" when he's being held, to help draw a few of those calls... and it would eventually help to open him up more.

He needs to learn a second move. If he can get to the QB more, then the refs might start "seeing" the holds on every play.

cowboykillerzRGiii · Post by **cowboykillerzRGiii** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:37 pm

Deadskins wrote:
Countertrey wrote:I have never seen a player get held as much as Rak does... yet, it's almost never called. He needs to get a bit more "dramatic" when he's being held, to help draw a few of those calls... and it would eventually help to open him up more.
He needs to learn a second move. If he can get to the QB more, then the refs might start "seeing" the holds on every play.

While I agree he needs to work on some moves... I think if he is in the top of the league for.producing qb pressure he needs to work on converting more of those into sacks.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Fri May 25, 2012 1:59 pm

Code: Select all

DE	Stephen Bowen	Kedric Golston	Kentwan Balmer	Doug Worthington
NT	Barry Cofield	Chris Neild	Chris Baker	Delvin Johnson
DE	Jarvis Jenkins	Adam Carriker	Darrion Scott	
OLB	Ryan Kerrigan	Rob Jackson	Lorenzo Alexander	Monte Lewis
ILB	London Fletcher	Jonathan Goff	Bryan Kehl	
ILB	Perry Riley	Keenan Robinson	DJ Holt	
OLB	Brian Orakpo	Chris Wilson	Markus White	Brian McNally

This is what I have for the front seven right now

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri May 25, 2012 2:09 pm

Rak is a one trick pony at this point. His one trick is very good, but to become elite he needs to develop a second and third move.

Now maybe Hasslett doesn't let him dip under an OT, because he wants him containing the outside edge. Of that is the case, that limited him to speed and bull rush.

As far as holding goes, he needs to start acting like the OT is rasping him or just drop to the ground. Hell if you drop to the ground, even if you aren't bring held, you usually draw done laundry. Ask Casey Rabach about that. Half of the"holding"penalties he got tagged with were DL just falling to the ground w/o being held at all.

But at one point, Rak was leading the NFL in drawing holding calls, them someone in the NFL told the officials to stop calling holding calls on OL blockng him. That is the only thing that could explain the holding calls just stopping.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri May 25, 2012 3:04 pm

A player should not need to act to draw holding calls

If the refs have been told not to call holding penalties on plays involving Orakpo, why would they change?

That defensive group looks very good - how many of that group are we able to keep

Is the common feeling that we'll keep 9 LBs and 7 linemen?

riggofan · Post by **riggofan** » Fri May 25, 2012 3:12 pm

Countertrey wrote:I have never seen a player get held as much as Rak does... yet, it's almost never called. He needs to get a bit more "dramatic" when he's being held, to help draw a few of those calls... and it would eventually help to open him up more.

True. You'd think the officials would start paying more attention by now. How many games do the announcers/replays have to point out Rak getting mugged and not getting the call?

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:01 pm

SkinsJock wrote:A player should not need to act to draw holding calls

If the refs have been told not to call holding penalties on plays involving Orakpo, why would they change?

That defensive group looks very good - how many of that group are we able to keep

Is the common feeling that we'll keep 9 LBs and 7 linemen?

You're right they shouldn't need to act, but there was a NBA player (i think Richard Chamberland) that drew charging calls by flopping all the time.

It works in the NFL too. I even DL that were getting whipped by OL just fall to the ground and out comes the yellow hanky.

Yes, they would throw the flag if Rak flopped. It is instinct for them to throw the flag when a pass rusher hours down. They don't even think, they just their the flag, weather they saw a hold or not!

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:07 pm

riggofan wrote:
Countertrey wrote:I have never seen a player get held as much as Rak does... yet, it's almost never called. He needs to get a bit more "dramatic" when he's being held, to help draw a few of those calls... and it would eventually help to open him up more.
True. You'd think the officials would start paying more attention by now. How many games do the announcers/replays have to point out Rak getting mugged and not getting the call?

I'm serious, I think they have been tokd not to call it unless it is so blatant they they have no choice! That is why he needs to flop. The flag will come out, out of instinct, even if they don't see a hold and even if they have been told not to call it on him.

By the way, I don't think Rak is thr only guy. Harrison of the Steelers gets held just as much and gets no yellow love. And I'm sure there are others.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri May 25, 2012 4:07 pm

SkinsJock wrote:A player should not need to act to draw holding calls

If the refs have been told not to call holding penalties on plays involving Orakpo, why would they change?

That defensive group looks very good - how many of that group are we able to keep

Is the common feeling that we'll keep 9 LBs and 7 linemen?

In a fair world, of course the Refs would see at least 3 or 4 of the 10 or 20 holds he draws every game... In a fair world, the League would not make up rules on the fly and punish those teams that violate said non-existent rule. We know how that works, don't we. OTOH, many pass rushers get this... they know when they have no shot at getting there, and are being held, go to the ground... be as visible as possible. They get the calls that Rak doesn't.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Fri May 25, 2012 9:04 pm

I hear you trey and I've seen and replayed many plays that Orakpo gets held ..

I just don't think it's intentional - the refs get to watch replays too and they are internally scrutinized

this guy will get the calls ... he's a force ... he does not need to act

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Fri May 25, 2012 10:06 pm

kerrakpoFTW wrote:Seeing how my username is a combination of my two favorite current redskins, my first topic might as well be about them right?

Profootballfocus sometimes has some really good equations sometimes, and I really think they nailed it with evaluating pass rushing productivity. If you look at their site, last year Orakpo and Kerrigan both finished in the top 20 with their analysis of rushing the passer: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... e-rushers/

I know everyone is really high on talking about our offense with all the recent additions and of course RG3, but I think the defense is being greatly overlooked. With Kerrakpo rushing the passer so effectively I think it also shows how underrated our line is with Bowen, Cofield, Carriker, and Jenkins returning. Not to mention Fletcher and Perry Riley gaining valuable experience last year and looking like a stud. I can very much see this front 7 being one of the absolute best in football this season.

Thoughts?[/url]

in typical redskin fan in e springtime fashion, they overrate everything about their own team.

the redskins defense? overrated. (in the sense that it was ranked 10th or somehing like that in yardage so therefore people say it was the 10th beat defense. it wasn't.v it's middle of the pack. average. mediocre. just like everything else aout the redskns)

if u commit to the run, I think u can with ease on the redskins. look at what the backup for the horrible Minnesota Vikings did on them. look at the ypc in both giant redskins games for the giants.....they simply gave up on the run even though they were bashing the redskins.

they have 2 main pass rushers, neither one is elite, both are good. they have a great but almost retired MLB and their secondary is weak, especially d. hall and at safety.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri May 25, 2012 11:18 pm

SkinsJock wrote:I hear you trey and I've seen and replayed many plays that Orakpo gets held ..

I just don't think it's intentional - the refs get to watch replays too and they are internally scrutinized

this guy will get the calls ... he's a force ... he does not need to act

1: The refs have been watching replays of this for 3 years now.
2: No one is asking him to act... just to make it impossible to ignore the holds when they happen. If he gets enough calls, the holds will go way down... and the sacks will go up.

the poster · Post by **the poster** » Sat May 26, 2012 5:45 pm

and the longtime crybabies over Brian orakpo is embarrassing. get over it - he's not a great player. he's a good player, that's it.

I wouldn't even put him in the top 5 pass rushers in his OwN DIVISION!

every pass rusher in the league is held. every single one of them. the great pass ruahers are great because they have the ability to get by offensive linemen BEFORE they get held.

got news for you, nothings going to change. he going to continue to get held. qnd so is every other pass rusher like jason pierre paul, ware, babin, cole, kerrigan. he won't reach the next level unless he learns how to beat the linemen before they can secure their hands on him and his jersey.

thats how the great ones do it.....Demarcus ware gets held just as much as orakpo, but he's an elite pass rusher who gets past the hold. orakpo can't. once you get your hands on him, you know u can take him out of the play...of course offenses will continue to hold him. it's up to ORAKpO to beat guys even when they're holding, not you guys crying online about the refs.....holding is always going to happen to every pass rusher in the sport.....you want orakpo to get more sacks? tell him to get better then.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:04 pm

SkinsJock wrote:
kerrakpoFTW wrote: ... I know everyone is really high on talking about our offense with all the recent additions and of course RG3, but I think the defense is being greatly overlooked. With Kerrakpo rushing the passer so effectively I think it also shows how underrated our line is with Bowen, Cofield, Carriker, and Jenkins returning. Not to mention Fletcher and Perry Riley gaining valuable experience last year and looking like a stud. I can very much see this front 7 being one of the absolute best in football this season.
Welcome to the site - this is a very good start

the defense will be a better unit this season - the key to helping the secondary is to have a more effective front 7 doing their jobs

we also need to keep players healthy

This is so true. Maybe then if we have the personnel, we can play more bump & run.

rskin72 · Post by **rskin72** » Sun May 27, 2012 1:09 am

I am ok with our front 7 but not overly hyped yet. I like our olb's and what more can u say about fletcher, he is a stud. But i do not see an intimidating defense......yet. I think we r good.....and know there were plenty of games last season where our d had to make up for our pathetic offense.....that avg only 18 pts/gm (26th). God only knows if we can score points this season, and score early, maybe we would see a more aggressive defensive play call.

Personally i would like to see a bigger nt......knucklehead Fat Albert would have been perfect, size wise, for nt.....

Definitely need the front 7 to play well this season, considering all the questions in our secondary.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun May 27, 2012 7:34 am

Countertrey wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:I hear you trey and I've seen and replayed many plays that Orakpo gets held ..

I just don't think it's intentional - the refs get to watch replays too and they are internally scrutinized

this guy will get the calls ... he's a force ... he does not need to act

1: The refs have been watching replays of this for 3 years now.
2: No one is asking him to act... just to make it impossible to ignore the holds when they happen. If he gets enough calls, the holds will go way down... and the sacks will go up.

Okay - I may have taken it the wrong way

actually - I hate that the refs don't call more holds - it almost seems that they don't want to slow the game down but ...

if a player (ours or theirs) is holding - make the damn call

Orakpo will get the calls as soon as we get the rest of the unit playing better - this kid is going to have a good year

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sun May 27, 2012 10:37 am

SkinsJock wrote:
Orakpo will get the calls as soon as we get the rest of the unit playing better - this kid is going to have a good year

See that is the rub, he was getting the calls. He was leading the league in drawing holding calls half way the 2010 season, then all of a sudden they stopped. Just like a light switch being turned off or a directive being issued to not call them any more.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Sun May 27, 2012 12:11 pm

^^ no way hosea - you can think it - I just look at it differently

Orakpo and this defense will make things happen - the refs won't

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