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WR Garcon and Morgan fit Shanahan's playmaker critieria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:28 pm
by 1niksder
Mike Shanahan was one of several Redskins coaches who lamented the team's dearth of playmakers at the end of last season.
Now Shanahan is eager to use his new weapons, free agent receivers Pierre Garcon and Josh Morgan.
"That’s one thing great about offense: you can dictate who’s on the football field," Shanahan said Wednesday during his first public comments since the signings. "You want playmakers, and we think we’ve added a couple playmakers to our football team, in addition to hopefully a guy like [second-year wideout Leonard] Hankerson, who can stay healthy. Maybe three tight ends, maybe four wide receivers – it depends on who’s healthy and what kind of matchups you’re looking for.
Why did the Redskins so aggressively pursue Garcon, who signed a five-year, $42.5 million contract?
"His ability to run after the catch," Shanahan said. "His ability to come out of a break at full speed. He’s one of the few guys I’ve been around that can explode on the field, come out of a break with speed. Once he catches the ball, his ability to go to the distance."
Garcon averaged 5.2 yards after the catch last season, 22nd among the the 85 receivers with at least 30 receptions. He's expected to start at 'X' receiver (split end), while Morgan will compete with Hankerson for the starting 'Z' (flanker) spot.
"Josh Morgan is a complete football player," Shanahan continued. "He can block. He can run. He can catch. He’s one of the most underrated guys that I thought was out there when I talk about a complete football player."
Link
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:50 pm
by Countertrey
Anybody notice the missing Moss? He turning into cap space?
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:52 pm
by Deadskins
Countertrey wrote:Anybody notice the missing Moss? He turning into cap space?
I did. No mention of Gaffney either, though.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:58 pm
by 1niksder
One or the other may be gone.... Gafney has age and both of their 2011 performances on his side
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:01 pm
by Countertrey
True... Gaffney was clutch on third down...
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:08 pm
by Hooligan
I think Gaffney stays, for sure. He was probably our most reliable receiving option. I think he'll stay this year at least. If Hank stays healthy all year and the new guys play well, he'll probably be gone next year.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:16 pm
by The Hogster
The article only talks about the outside receivers. Moss plays in the Slot. I think he's here this year with Gaffney being on the bubble.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:02 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
The Hogster wrote:The article only talks about the outside receivers. Moss plays in the Slot. I think he's here this year with Gaffney being on the bubble.
If the cap dispute goes our way, I agree. If it doesn't, they're going to have to take another hard look at everybody.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 5:44 pm
by crazyhorse1
I don't agree with some that say Morgan has much potential. His stats are flat out flat. To think that Gaffney or Moss might be on the bubble because of guys like Morgan, Paul, and others is crazy land. Gaffney, Garcon, and Moss will start. I don't know about AAA. I think he should be the first WR off the bench but don't think Shanny is high on him. Hankerson will probably be off the bench before AAA and might deserve it. Banks should be retained regardless of the WR situation-- he was in the upper third of the league in both KR and PR again this year. My prediction is that Morgan might find himself on the bubble.
No one I've haven't mentioned will make the team.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:58 pm
by the poster
crazyhorse1 wrote:I don't agree with some that say Morgan has much potential. His stats are flat out flat. To think that Gaffney or Moss might be on the bubble because of guys like Morgan, Paul, and others is crazy land. Gaffney, Garcon, and Moss will start. I don't know about AAA. I think he should be the first WR off the bench but don't think Shanny is high on him. Hankerson will probably be off the bench before AAA and might deserve it. Banks should be retained regardless of the WR situation-- he was in the upper third of the league in both KR and PR again this year. My prediction is that Morgan might find himself on the bubble.
No one I've haven't mentioned will make the team.
the redskins have like 9 wide receivers because they dont really have one.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:10 pm
by DarthMonk
the poster wrote:crazyhorse1 wrote:I don't agree with some that say Morgan has much potential. His stats are flat out flat. To think that Gaffney or Moss might be on the bubble because of guys like Morgan, Paul, and others is crazy land. Gaffney, Garcon, and Moss will start. I don't know about AAA. I think he should be the first WR off the bench but don't think Shanny is high on him. Hankerson will probably be off the bench before AAA and might deserve it. Banks should be retained regardless of the WR situation-- he was in the upper third of the league in both KR and PR again this year. My prediction is that Morgan might find himself on the bubble.
No one I've haven't mentioned will make the team.
the redskins have like 9 wide receivers because they dont really have one.
the poster has like 31 teams because he really doesn't have one.
DarthMonk
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:32 pm
by skinsfan#33
The Hogster wrote:The article only talks about the outside receivers. Moss plays in the Slot. I think he's here this year with Gaffney being on the bubble.
God I hope not! Garcon isn't that much of an improvement over Gaffney. I would love to see Garcon and Gaffney on the field at the same time or maybe they can move him into the slot.
If the Skins get rid of Gaffney and Moss they got younger but not better at WR. I was hoping for both! I would be Happy as all get out going into the season with Garcon, Gaffney, Moss, Morgan, and Hankerson as our WRs on game day. That allows us to take an injury or two at WR and not be crippled.
Re: WR Garcon and Morgan fit Shanahan's playmaker critieria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:50 pm
by DarthMonk
1niksder wrote:Why did the Redskins so aggressively pursue Garcon, who signed a five-year, $42.5 million contract?
"His ability to run after the catch," Shanahan said. "His ability to come out of a break at full speed. He’s one of the few guys I’ve been around that can explode on the field, come out of a break with speed. Once he catches the ball, his ability to go to the distance."
Garcon averaged 5.2 yards after the catch last season, 22nd among the the 85 receivers with at least 30 receptions.
A bigger sample says he's even better. If you consider WRs with at least 70 receptions he's more like top 12 ... with Painter and Orlovsky. It's only one metric but in this regard he's about twice as good as Gaffney (68 catches) ... with Rex and Beck.
DarthMonk
Re: WR Garcon and Morgan fit Shanahan's playmaker critieria
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:03 pm
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:1niksder wrote:Why did the Redskins so aggressively pursue Garcon, who signed a five-year, $42.5 million contract?
"His ability to run after the catch," Shanahan said. "His ability to come out of a break at full speed. He’s one of the few guys I’ve been around that can explode on the field, come out of a break with speed. Once he catches the ball, his ability to go to the distance."
Garcon averaged 5.2 yards after the catch last season, 22nd among the the 85 receivers with at least 30 receptions.
A bigger sample says he's even better. If you consider WRs with at least 70 receptions he's more like top 12 ... with Painter and Orlovsky. It's only one metric but in this regard he's about twice as good as Gaffney (68 catches) ... with Rex and Beck.
DarthMonk
Compare his 09 and 10 season to Gaffney's. Gaffney had Orton, not a bad QB but certainly not Peyton!
Now who had the better season!
Twice as good... my (donkey)!
Look I know Garcon is younger and faster, but he certainly isn't the clear ugrade (at this point in their careers) over Gaffney!
I'm a production over potential person. And the plain simple fact is GAffney has been every bit as productive over the past three seasons Garcon. Moss has been more productive (by a landslide) over Morgan.
I love the additions of Garcon and Morgan, but only if they are additions and not replacements.
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 10:31 pm
by DarthMonk
^ just on that metric and just last year. But that is the most recent year, he keeps getting better, and he's way younger while Gaffney (I like him) is probably headed toward the pasture real soon.
Garcon probably has his best years ahead of him while the opposite is probably true of Gaffney.
That all adds up to an upgrade IMO.
DarthMonk
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2012 11:23 pm
by skinsfan#33
DarthMonk wrote:^ just on that metric and just last year. But that is the most recent year, he keeps getting better, and he's way younger while Gaffney (I like him) is probably headed toward the pasture real soon.
Garcon probably has his best years ahead of him while the opposite is probably true of Gaffney.
That all adds up to an upgrade IMO.
DarthMonk
I don't disagree with anything you just said, however each of Gaffney's past three seasons have been career years. Meaning in '09 that was his best to date, and then he improved on it in '10 and improved on '10 in '11.
I like Garcon and I do think he is an improvement over Gaffney, but only marginally. Two years from now that might be a different story, but for next season, you have to keep both!
What is wrong with adding a young WR who had his best season last year to an older WR who had his best season last year. They are virtually identical in stats over the past three seasons. Shouldn't we want to keep both!
And start then both!
By the way, footballoutsider.com had Gaffney rated much higher than Garcon in '10 and '11. In fact in '11 JG was ranked 33rd and Garcon was ranked 81st.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:17 am
by The Hogster
The thought is that the younger ascending player will continue to flourish into a #1 WR while the older one is destined to plateau before declining. Gaffney is a good option at WR, but he could be a cap casualty.
Hopefully we get our cap penalty overturned and can keep them both.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:03 pm
by TimSkin
I could see Moss being a big escape option in the slot for RGIII or Luck since he's such a mismatch and having a season similar to a Wes Welker 90 catches for like 950 yds and 7 TDs......I see him and Davis being big 3rd down targets as well.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:50 pm
by crazyhorse1
The Hogster wrote:The article only talks about the outside receivers. Moss plays in the Slot. I think he's here this year with Gaffney being on the bubble.
Morgan's record sucks. It offers no reason to be hopeful. Does Shanny see something other's don't. I doubt it.
Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:03 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
Morgan was the leading receiver for.the whiners before he got hurt.last year. Young fast good hands tons of upside... Had great numbers w an o k qb. What's not to like?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 1:27 pm
by die cowboys die
crazyhorse1 wrote:The Hogster wrote:The article only talks about the outside receivers. Moss plays in the Slot. I think he's here this year with Gaffney being on the bubble.
Morgan's record sucks. It offers no reason to be hopeful. Does Shanny see something other's don't. I doubt it.
Dude... you realize Morgan was playing for the
49ers, right? With the illustrious
Alex Smith (amongst other backups) at QB?
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 3:59 pm
by DarthMonk
cowboykillerzRED wrote:Morgan was the leading receiver for.the whiners before he got hurt.last year. Young fast good hands tons of upside... Had great numbers w an o k qb. What's not to like?
He's also a top notch yards-after-catch guy - one of the best in 2010.
If he's healthy he could be real good.
DarthMonk
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:11 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
BINGO!
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 4:48 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
AAA didn't have a QB that had the arm to make good use of his speed last year. Both the Sex Cannon and Becky have noodle arms.
If he can improve on beating the jam, he'll make the team. Speed kills and he has it.
Bottom line, his lack of production had a lot to do with an inability to push the ball downfield by the QB. I can imagine RGIII breaking the pocket and flicking the ball downfield to an uncatchable AAA. #dougie
Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 5:16 pm
by emoses14
Chris Luva Luva wrote: #dougie
This made me laugh out loud.