The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

With the news that Landry Jones is staying in school, some of you Trade Up or Bust fans may as well take a gander at these faces of other draft eligible Quarterbacks who may become the future of the Burgundy & Gold.

I happen to like Brandon Weeden most of all. But, I also have good feelings about Tyler Wilson (if he comes out), Ryan Tannenhill (despite his limited experience), and Nick Foles (who could be a Joe Flacco/Matt Schuab type).

If I am the Redskins, I am looking to move down into the Mid first & pick up another 2nd round pick--the same strategy employed last year. I think a QB and 2 other good players to fill needs could be acquired with the first 3 picks. And, one of these guys could be our Franchise. Get used to it.



Brandon Weeden
Oklahoma State
6'4 220LBS

Pros: Accuracy, Maturity, & Leadership. Holds school records for: yards, total offense, completions, & completion percentage, among others.

Cons: He's 28 years old. He would likely be considered a Top 15 pick if he were 5 years younger. But, as a former baseball player, it's not like he's walking wounded. No wear and tear.



Ryan Tannenhill
Texas A & M
6'4 222lbs

Pros: Athleticism. Very Mobile & Elusive. Played WR for first 2 years of college career. Can get out of the pocket, and run fast. Mobility is somewhere above Ben Roethlesberger but below Cam Newton. Leadership. Teammates & coaches rave about his leadership skills and passion for the game. Big upside.

Cons: Has only played QB for 2 seasons.



Tyler Wilson
Arkansas
6'3 220lbs

Pros: Mature leader. Carries himself like a professional even in college. Good football knowledge. Fairly mobile and can throw on the run. HOlds school records for passing yards in a game: 510, Consecutive Completions: 19, Competions in a game: 32, and Pass Attempts without an interception: 184. Big Upside.

Cons: Has not yet declared, and said he intended to return to school before Landry Jones & Barkley decided to stay. If I'm his agent, I'm telling him to come out. He'd immediately be a Top 5 QB prospect with a chance to go late 1st.



Nick Foles
Arizona
6'5 240lbs

Pros: Big, strong QB. Good passer from the pocket. Not elusive, but is athletic enough to extend plays being a former basketball star. Keeps eyes down field in pressure. First in Pac-12 in passing with an average of 361 yards of offense per game--a conference record. Fairly accurate passer. Will be playing in the Senior Bowl.

Cons: Might not be as accurate on the run as MS would like, but then again, have you ever seen Matt Schuab run for a first down? I like his skills even if others limitations.


This might sound harsh, but it's true. A lot of fans wouldn't even know how to rank QB prospects if the media didn't tell you every year who the top guys are. As a result, it really irks me how people get all hot and bothered over Luck & RG3 just because they are the consensus "can't miss" pros. That may be right, but that doesn't mean these guys won't become good pro QBs who can lead a good team to the playoffs. We need to get better as a TEAM, and one of these guys just might lead the way.

I have to disagree with the Wilson analysis. If he comes out, which is unlikely, he very well could be a top 10 pick. He's head and shoulders above the other qbs mentioned, who all have major flaws and drawbacks. Of that group, the only guy with a shot at being a legitbNFL starter is Tannehil, but he's a 3-4 year project.

Foles is an int machine. 13 int's over 6 games this year and he sucked against just about every decent team Arizona played this year. Instead of taking a step forward his senior year he didn't develop and actually declined. I like him the least by far.

Weeden, aside from age, has a shoulder problem from his baseball days on his throwing arm. He also has poor mobility. Banking on a player that will be 29 next year, that isn't particularly athletic, and already has had issues with his throwing arm is an unnecessary risk.

Cousins has also been mentioned. He's a high character guy and has a lot of experience, but he has a weak arm and was skittish in the pocket the games I saw. Seems like a solid college qb destined for holding a clipboard.

Since we can't predict anything with certainty, I'm going to go ahead and give a hypothetical of what I would attempt to do if I were the GM of the Redskins.

BTW - I'm damn near Ozzie Newsome when it comes to drafting in theory. I pegged guys like Vincent Jackson (evidence is somewhere in my posts from years ago), Andy Dalton etc. Put simply, I'm pretty good.

HYPOTHETICAL

Let's say the Cle Browns want to beef up their team via the draft and not free agency and want to move up from their say 22nd pick. (Exact spot not determined yet).

Cleveland Trades the 22nd Pick in the 1st Round. The 36th pick of the 2nd Round. And, some additional compensation to the Washington Redskins for their 6th overall pick. Cleveland gets RG3 and their next top player of choice.

With the 22nd, 36th & 38th Picks, I would draft as follows:

22nd: If QB: Tyler Wilson (assuming he comes out) If no Wilson, then Ryan Tannenhill QB Texas A &M.

If Best Available: Alshon Jeffery WR South Carolina or Keleche Osemele T/G Iowa State.

36th: If QB: Brandon Weeden OSU.

If Best Available: Nate Potter OT Boise, State, Levy Adock OT Oklahoma State, Barrett Jones G Alabama


38th: If QB: Nick Foles QB Arizona.

If Best Available: Chase Minnifield CB Virginia, Stephon Gilmore CB South Carolina.

My overall goal would be to land 3 of the best players available at: QB, OL, WR, & CB.

I don't know a whole lot about these guys other than Foles. He played on a team this year who did not have the talent that some of the other QBs had. He also had issues with coaching (fired) and I believe several of his line players were freshman.

CanesSkins26 wrote:I have to disagree with the Wilson analysis. If he comes out, which is unlikely, he very well could be a top 10 pick. He's head and shoulders above the other qbs mentioned, who all have major flaws and drawbacks. Of that group, the only guy with a shot at being a legitbNFL starter is Tannehil, but he's a 3-4 year project.

Foles is an int machine. 13 int's over 6 games this year and he sucked against just about every decent team Arizona played this year. Instead of taking a step forward his senior year he didn't develop and actually declined. I like him the least by far.

Weeden, aside from age, has a shoulder problem from his baseball days on his throwing arm. He also has poor mobility. Banking on a player that will be 29 next year, that isn't particularly athletic, and already has had issues with his throwing arm is an unnecessary risk.

Cousins has also been mentioned. He's a high character guy and has a lot of experience, but he has a weak arm and was skittish in the pocket the games I saw. Seems like a solid college qb destined for holding a clipboard.

I doubt Wilson leaps into the Top 10. I think he will go late first round. Mid first round at best if a team really leaps up there to grab him ala Christian Ponder.

As for Weeden, those are the reasons why he's likely to fall into the 2nd round. If you look at the rookie wage scale, you will see that it's no risk at all. Early second round players are getting less than 10 million in guaranteed money--sometimes much less. To invest a 2nd round pick and a few million dollars in a guy who could very well become your starting QB is not a risk to me at all.

His shoulder sure didn't seem to affect him when he was ripping it up this year. He made Blackmon look a lot better than he would have with a guy who couldn't play QB.

As for Foles--I wouldn't put too much stock in his stretch of turnovers. All QBs go through those stretches, and seriously, the kid plays for Arizona in the Pac 10. He's lucky he is still alive.

Fans often look for reasons not to draft players who aren't rated highly. I don't subscribe to that theory. I think there is some talent in that tier of QBs--and with a good team around them, we could have something to build on.

frankcal20 wrote:I don't know a whole lot about these guys other than Foles. He played on a team this year who did not have the talent that some of the other QBs had. He also had issues with coaching (fired) and I believe several of his line players were freshman.

+1

The Hogster wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I have to disagree with the Wilson analysis. If he comes out, which is unlikely, he very well could be a top 10 pick. He's head and shoulders above the other qbs mentioned, who all have major flaws and drawbacks. Of that group, the only guy with a shot at being a legitbNFL starter is Tannehil, but he's a 3-4 year project.

Foles is an int machine. 13 int's over 6 games this year and he sucked against just about every decent team Arizona played this year. Instead of taking a step forward his senior year he didn't develop and actually declined. I like him the least by far.

Weeden, aside from age, has a shoulder problem from his baseball days on his throwing arm. He also has poor mobility. Banking on a player that will be 29 next year, that isn't particularly athletic, and already has had issues with his throwing arm is an unnecessary risk.

Cousins has also been mentioned. He's a high character guy and has a lot of experience, but he has a weak arm and was skittish in the pocket the games I saw. Seems like a solid college qb destined for holding a clipboard.

I doubt Wilson leaps into the Top 10. I think he will go late first round. Mid first round at best if a team really leaps up there to grab him ala Christian Ponder.

As for Weeden, those are the reasons why he's likely to fall into the 2nd round. If you look at the rookie wage scale, you will see that it's no risk at all. Early second round players are getting less than 10 million in guaranteed money--sometimes much less. To invest a 2nd round pick and a few million dollars in a guy who could very well become your starting QB is not a risk to me at all.

His shoulder sure didn't seem to affect him when he was ripping it up this year. He made Blackmon look a lot better than he would have with a guy who couldn't play QB.

As for Foles--I wouldn't put too much stock in his stretch of turnovers. All QBs go through those stretches, and seriously, the kid plays for Arizona in the Pac 10. He's lucky he is still alive.

Fans often look for reasons not to draft players who aren't rated highly. I don't subscribe to that theory. I think there is some talent in that tier of QBs--and with a good team around them, we could have something to build on.

Plenty of qbs do well on sub-par teams. Foles' decision making is a joke. The guy has disaster written all over him as far as being an NFL qb.

As for Wilson, 22 ints and 6 ints this year. IMO he's a much better prospect than Gabbert, who went in the top 10. I could be wrong but to me he looks like a prototypical NFL qb. If he comes out and is there at 6 I hope that we take him.

Weeden....I don't think he's a risk financially. I think it's a risk to take a qb of his age, from a spread offense, with an injury history involving his right arm. Assuming he sits a year, he'd be 30 years old when he becomes a starter.

Assuming Wilson stays in school, Tannehill makes the most sense I think.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I have to disagree with the Wilson analysis. If he comes out, which is unlikely, he very well could be a top 10 pick. He's head and shoulders above the other qbs mentioned, who all have major flaws and drawbacks. Of that group, the only guy with a shot at being a legitbNFL starter is Tannehil, but he's a 3-4 year project.

Foles is an int machine. 13 int's over 6 games this year and he sucked against just about every decent team Arizona played this year. Instead of taking a step forward his senior year he didn't develop and actually declined. I like him the least by far.

Weeden, aside from age, has a shoulder problem from his baseball days on his throwing arm. He also has poor mobility. Banking on a player that will be 29 next year, that isn't particularly athletic, and already has had issues with his throwing arm is an unnecessary risk.

Cousins has also been mentioned. He's a high character guy and has a lot of experience, but he has a weak arm and was skittish in the pocket the games I saw. Seems like a solid college qb destined for holding a clipboard.

I doubt Wilson leaps into the Top 10. I think he will go late first round. Mid first round at best if a team really leaps up there to grab him ala Christian Ponder.

As for Weeden, those are the reasons why he's likely to fall into the 2nd round. If you look at the rookie wage scale, you will see that it's no risk at all. Early second round players are getting less than 10 million in guaranteed money--sometimes much less. To invest a 2nd round pick and a few million dollars in a guy who could very well become your starting QB is not a risk to me at all.

His shoulder sure didn't seem to affect him when he was ripping it up this year. He made Blackmon look a lot better than he would have with a guy who couldn't play QB.

As for Foles--I wouldn't put too much stock in his stretch of turnovers. All QBs go through those stretches, and seriously, the kid plays for Arizona in the Pac 10. He's lucky he is still alive.

Fans often look for reasons not to draft players who aren't rated highly. I don't subscribe to that theory. I think there is some talent in that tier of QBs--and with a good team around them, we could have something to build on.

Plenty of qbs do well on sub-par teams. Foles' decision making is a joke. The guy has disaster written all over him as far as being an NFL qb.

As for Wilson, 22 ints and 6 ints this year. IMO he's a much better prospect than Gabbert, who went in the top 10. I could be wrong but to me he looks like a prototypical NFL qb. If he comes out and is there at 6 I hope that we take him.

Weeden....I don't think he's a risk financially. I think it's a risk to take a qb of his age, from a spread offense, with an injury history involving his right arm. Assuming he sits a year, he'd be 30 years old when he becomes a starter.

Assuming Wilson stays in school, Tannehill makes the most sense I think.

I like Tannenhill as well. Hopefully our scouting department can evaluate these guys as well as they did Ryan Kerrigan and project him in our system. I have confidence that we will get it right with one of those guys.

Nick Foles Highlights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhaehG4uWoY

He's not the cream of the crop, but I definitely would welcome him to the Redskins as I believe in what I see in his skill set & potential.

The Hogster wrote:Nick Foles Highlights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhaehG4uWoY

He's not the cream of the crop, but I definitely would welcome him to the Redskins as I believe in what I see in his skill set & potential.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The games of his I've watched have left me shaking my head. He just doesn't make good decisions and doesn't appear to read defenses well at all. I'd be disappointed if we ended up with him over Tannehill. Hell, I think I'd take Cousins over him also.

Of Wilson, Hogster said:

If I'm his agent, I'm telling him to come out. He'd immediately be a Top 5 QB prospect with a chance to go late 1st.

Dude... if you are his agent... he is ineligible to compete in the NCAA...

Bring it, baby!

I'll pass on all of the above.

GoSkins wrote:I'll pass on all of the above.

I would too. To be quite honest, I don't think we draft a QB JUST to draft a QB. Why waste a 2nd round pick on crap? This is setting up to be such a disappointing draft. There are just not enough top level QB's that are coming out to justify trading up...menaing the cost is rising by the day. I'm going to get a beer

chiefhog44 wrote:

GoSkins wrote:I'll pass on all of the above.

I would too. To be quite honest, I don't think we draft a QB JUST to draft a QB. Why waste a 2nd round pick on crap? This is setting up to be such a disappointing draft. There are just not enough top level QB's that are coming out to justify trading up...menaing the cost is rising by the day. I'm going to get a beer

So your suggestion is to do what exactly at qb?

CanesSkins26 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

GoSkins wrote:I'll pass on all of the above.

I would too. To be quite honest, I don't think we draft a QB JUST to draft a QB. Why waste a 2nd round pick on crap? This is setting up to be such a disappointing draft. There are just not enough top level QB's that are coming out to justify trading up...menaing the cost is rising by the day. I'm going to get a beer

So your suggestion is to do what exactly at qb?

I've actually posted it a few times on other threads. Trade up for Griffin or luck, sign Flynn. Too drunk to explain the logic again tonight. Read it on another post and reply please

CanesSkins26 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:

GoSkins wrote:I'll pass on all of the above.

I would too. To be quite honest, I don't think we draft a QB JUST to draft a QB. Why waste a 2nd round pick on crap? This is setting up to be such a disappointing draft. There are just not enough top level QB's that are coming out to justify trading up...menaing the cost is rising by the day. I'm going to get a beer

So your suggestion is to do what exactly at qb?

Here, I pasted it

I think ideally (for me anyway) we pick up Luck. I am resigned to that not happening. So secondary is trading up to #3 and picking up RGIII and signing Flynn. Flynn would win the strating lineup (I'll assume) and let RGIII learn. If Flynn doesn't succeed, RGIII enters and Flynn is cut year 3. If Flynn succeeds, than you trade him for the house and RGIII enters.

MY QUESTIONS TO YOU ARE THESE (assuming the above):

What would we have to give up to get the pick from the Vikes IYO
and
What kind of deal could we work with Flynn to allow us to get out after year three if we wanted, with little CAP hit (I think the Eagles signed Asomgwa to a similar contract)

Countertrey wrote:Of Wilson, Hogster said:

If I'm his agent, I'm telling him to come out. He'd immediately be a Top 5 QB prospect with a chance to go late 1st.

Dude... if you are his agent... he is ineligible to compete in the NCAA...

Bring it, baby!

Touche. But, that would ensure that he has to come out--which would be good for us.

chiefhog44 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote: I would too. To be quite honest, I don't think we draft a QB JUST to draft a QB. Why waste a 2nd round pick on crap? This is setting up to be such a disappointing draft. There are just not enough top level QB's that are coming out to justify trading up...menaing the cost is rising by the day. I'm going to get a beer

So your suggestion is to do what exactly at qb?

Here, I pasted it

I think ideally (for me anyway) we pick up Luck. I am resigned to that not happening. So secondary is trading up to #3 and picking up RGIII and signing Flynn. Flynn would win the strating lineup (I'll assume) and let RGIII learn. If Flynn doesn't succeed, RGIII enters and Flynn is cut year 3. If Flynn succeeds, than you trade him for the house and RGIII enters.

MY QUESTIONS TO YOU ARE THESE (assuming the above):

What would we have to give up to get the pick from the Vikes IYO
and
What kind of deal could we work with Flynn to allow us to get out after year three if we wanted, with little CAP hit (I think the Eagles signed Asomgwa to a similar contract)

When are fans going to realize that we suck? How many consecutive double digit loss seasons do we need to string together before we realize that we can't afford to give away picks for 1 guy. 1 guy isn't going to make us competitive.

Fans get way too shortsighted on the draft. There are good players oustide of the Top 10, but fans get all hot and bothered over whoever the "hot" guys are. Not many people thought Ryan Kerrigan would have been the pick last year. Now, I'm pretty sure that nobody would give him back for Blaine Gabbert.

Newsflash - WE SUCK. WE NEED TO GET BETTER. We are closer than some may think, but we need quality players at more than 1 position. What good would it be to have RG3 on a team strapped for talent AND without any draft picks for the next 2 years?? I'd rather be the Baltimore Ravens than the Carolina Panthers.

Sometimes a Joe Flacco on a good team can take you farther than a Cam Newton on a paper thin lineup of camp fodder. We have needs along the Offensive Line namely RT, both Guard spots & Center. We have needs at ILB (London can't play forever and we're likely going to let Rocky walk) And, we have needs at Cornerback. Not to mention Wide receiver, and oh yeah QB.

It's not rocket science that good teams keep their pipeline filled through the DRAFT. The Pats consistently stockpile 2nd round picks because they know 3 2nd round picks beats 1 or 2 first round picks 10 times out of 10. The dropoff in players from the mid first to 2nd round is slight IF you know how to draft. And, the money is better. It's the proper way to build a football team.

If we wouldn't have spent a first round pick on one of these QB's in the first place, why do it now?

Seems like a waste and you end up short-changing the team. Just to appease your appetite to see that "something being done", you want the team to draft a player that they don't want. You want them to get a player that they'll replace at a moments notice.

That is just completely stupid.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:If we wouldn't have spent a first round pick on one of these QB's in the first place, why do it now?

Seems like a waste and you end up short-changing the team. Just to appease your appetite to see that "something being done", you want the team to draft a player that they don't want. You want them to get a player that they'll replace at a moments notice.

That is just completely stupid.

Your post is completely stupid. For one, I never once in this thread suggested that they spend the first round pick on a QB UNLESS, they move down into the later part of the first round and a guy like Tyler Wilson, or Tannenhill is THERE when we pick. I never suggested that we REACH for a QB just do to it. In fact I listed 3 scenarios where we could draft the best player available at a position of need. Read slower.

Second of all, who says it's just to "appease the appetite'? Nobody but you. It's to fill a need. If you think this team will do any better with Rex or Beck under center--I'll point you to the definition of a certain word. Hint-It's doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

Lastly, how do you know that they "don't want" any of these players?? You don't. Maybe YOU don't want any of them, but that's why you do whatever you do, and others are paid to scout.

Going into last year, Cam Newton & Blaine Gabbert were the more coveted QBs (according to the media) but low and behold, the guys that fans overlooked (Ponder & Dalton) and to some degree Locker because of his senior season, ALL got drafted HIGH. And, ALL have played this year. Dalton & Rookie Yates are in the PLAYOFFS. If we keep subscribing to this bum logic every year, we're always going to be picking in the Top 10 every year.

Fans kill me with their attempts to act like they know football. They'll say "don't reach" or "best player available." No team drafts that way. Teams draft the Best player available who fills a NEED. Fans can't keep going on some jackleg Mock Draft site and basing their opinions off of that and what some media guy says on TV. We aren't the Atlanta Falcons. We aren't good enough to trade multiple 1st and 2nd round picks for a QB. Duh. If RG3 falls to us at 6--then GREAT. But, if not--get familiar with the other players who have been successful, then evaluate whether you believe that guy could project well on THIS team.

Other than those three flagrant errors and assumptions in your post, did you watch this season? We had 2 guys at QB that the coaches wanted to "replace at a moments notice" and they did. So, what exactly are you saying? We should roll with the guys that we know they want to replace? Or that we shouldn't draft a guy that YOU think they'll want to replace?

The Hogster wrote:Second of all, who says it's just to "appease the appetite'? Nobody but you. It's to fill a need.

It doesn't have to be written out verbatim. It's obvious that fans are hungry for a QB, any QB. We have threads about Manning, Flynn, RGIII and the 2nd and 3rd tier QB's you listed that wasn't even on the radar until recent events.

You don't know who they want anymore than the rest of us. We'll see how it plays out in the draft but I'm sure that they don't take a QB in the 1st round if they aren't drafting up.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Second of all, who says it's just to "appease the appetite'? Nobody but you. It's to fill a need.

It doesn't have to be written out verbatim. It's obvious that fans are hungry for a QB, any QB. We have threads about Manning, Flynn, RGIII and the 2nd and 3rd tier QB's you listed that wasn't even on the radar until recent events.

You don't know who they want anymore than the rest of us. We'll see how it plays out in the draft but I'm sure that they don't take a QB in the 1st round if they aren't drafting up.

They don't have to take a QB in the first round. Read the post. Wilson is the only guy who might sneak into the late first. But, he hasn't declared yet. The rest of these guys are projected 2nd round picks right now. But that all could change in the coming months. One guy may separate himself in the "Senior Bowl" "Pro Days" "Combine" "Team Workouts" etc. All I am doing is getting the fans familiar with the group of guys who have the potential to separate themselves and may wind up on this team.

If we trade up for Luck, I'll be fine for that. Do I think it's likely? No. It's going to cost a kings ransom. Do I think trading up 2 spots for RG3 is wise? No. Because it will likely cost us next year's 1st--maybe more.

I'd prefer that they keep with last year's philosophy and keep building this team. Would this team have been better if you take Kerrigan off the Defense and add Gabbert to the offense?? No. And, we wouldn't have had Jarvis Jenkins or Leonard Hankerson (Both players we acquired with pkcks received in trades). How the heck can you build a team like that? We have to accept that we are rebuilding. We can't build without picks.

I support trading back 9/10 times. But if they have even the slightest inkling that Luck or RGIII are worth it, than they need to pull the trigger. Do it and get it over with.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I support trading back 9/10 times. But if they have even the slightest inkling that Luck or RGIII are worth it, than they need to pull the trigger. Do it and get it over with.

Amen brother. This team needs a franchise trigger man in today's NFL. We can plug other holes thru FA. If I have to watch one more game with Rex Grossman at QB I will start watching badminton.

chiefhog44 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote: I would too. To be quite honest, I don't think we draft a QB JUST to draft a QB. Why waste a 2nd round pick on crap? This is setting up to be such a disappointing draft. There are just not enough top level QB's that are coming out to justify trading up...menaing the cost is rising by the day. I'm going to get a beer

So your suggestion is to do what exactly at qb?

I've actually posted it a few times on other threads. Trade up for Griffin or luck, sign Flynn. Too drunk to explain the logic again tonight. Read it on another post and reply please

Don't the highligted sentences contradict each other?