The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Just thought this was a good and kind of hilarious Insider article today:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... _blog.html

“Best season ever”, “31st in the league”, and “leads the league in interceptions” is a combination that does not bode well for the future of a franchise that would consider standing pat at quarterback.

haha. I have to admit I'm taking note of this article, because I've kind of accepted that Grossman could possibly be the caretaker QB if we draft a rookie next year.

One other point from the article I found interesting:

Recent history shows that there isn’t usually a large drop-off in career success between the second and third quarterbacks taken. Depending on how the first round unfolds and which teams are picking behind the Redskins, it might even make sense to trade down, pick up an extra pick and still land the third quarterback available. Shanahan’s experience with Cutler might just pull him in that direction.

Can definitely see Shanahan going that route, rather than trading up.

Its going to be an interesting off season!

Whom we draft at QB will be determined by which QB Mike & Bruce think can start here next season

If these guys cannot find a QB to take over from Grossman (that's impossible to contemplate, but may happen) - then they have to give up whatever it takes to get Luck
IF they cannot get Luck then they will go after Griffin III

all this PRESUMING that Mike & Bruce think that Luck or Griffin will be a very good QB here for 10-12 years plus

there is NO chance (OK - VERY slight chance) that Grossman is the starting QB here - Grossman is NOT a starting QB


now ... depending on the 'new' QB AND how the FO feels about the draft class at QB, will factor into who we draft at QB

we will see better play from the QB position - we have to

SkinsJock wrote:Whom we draft at QB will be determined by which QB Mike & Bruce think can start here next season

If these guys cannot find a QB to take over from Grossman (that's impossible to contemplate, but may happen) - then they have to give up whatever it takes to get Luck
IF they cannot get Luck then they will go after Griffin III

all this PRESUMING that Mike & Bruce think that Luck or Griffin will be a very good QB here for 10-12 years plus

there is NO chance (OK - VERY slight chance) that Grossman is the starting QB here - Grossman is NOT a starting QB


now ... depending on the 'new' QB AND how the FO feels about the draft class at QB, will factor into who we draft at QB

we will see better play from the QB position - we have to

Praise the Lord, he has seen the light!

You know, I'm going to back track a little here and concede that RGIII could be a good pick for the Redskins (I still prefer Luck by a wide margin).

The kid has a good head on his shoulders and is a terrific athlete with some seriously gaudy numbers. There's no doubt he would be an upgrade to our current QB situation.

One thing seems pretty clear to me .... neither RGIII or Luck will be there when we pick, as there are too many teams in need of QB talent, and most will be zeroing in on those two guys. So we're going to HAVE TO trade up to guarantee we get one of them.

Let's say that the Colts want 4 #1s for Luck, and the Rams want 2 #1's for the 2nd pick .... I'd think hard about taking the 2nd pick and grabbing RGIII. But, if the Rams wanted 3 #1's, then I'd rather give the Colts 4 and take Luck.

Both guys are going to be in high demand, and there could be a bidding war that makes getting one of them very costly. This is ONE instance when the "Dany" could be very useful ..... and it is time to go all in. The Redskins MUST get one of those two guys .... MUST. It is INCONCEIVABLE for the Redskins to come away from the draft without one of the two best QB prospects.

Mike & Bruce will have their work cut out for them but ....
If this franchise can acquire a QB that can lead the offense for 10 to 12 years we have to get him, I agree

that being said - Mike & Bruce will have weighed the draft picks and the future very carefully - he has resisted taking a chance till now

I really could care less what Mike has done in the past or what Bruce did before either - this is right here and right now
they both understand that their immediate future hangs on the play and leadership from a decent QB, but ....

they also will be looking at all the aspects and what the draft picks mean vrs bringing in a rookie QB, albeit, a very good prospect



I too am pretty high on Griffin but Andrew Luck looks terrific

riggofan wrote:Just thought this was a good and kind of hilarious Insider article today:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... _blog.html

“Best season ever”, “31st in the league”, and “leads the league in interceptions” is a combination that does not bode well for the future of a franchise that would consider standing pat at quarterback.

haha. I have to admit I'm taking note of this article, because I've kind of accepted that Grossman could possibly be the caretaker QB if we draft a rookie next year.

One other point from the article I found interesting:

Recent history shows that there isn’t usually a large drop-off in career success between the second and third quarterbacks taken. Depending on how the first round unfolds and which teams are picking behind the Redskins, it might even make sense to trade down, pick up an extra pick and still land the third quarterback available. Shanahan’s experience with Cutler might just pull him in that direction.

Can definitely see Shanahan going that route, rather than trading up.

Its going to be an interesting off season!

Here's the deal though ..... with Barkley staying in school (he was part of the trio of that top three) that leaves Luck and RGIII .... and I guarantee you that RGIII will not fall to the 6th or 7th pick. The other guys that might be available are "projects" ... and one or two might wind up being good QBs down the road. But the Redskins do not have the luxury of picking a project this time around. They need someone they can be confident provides a significant and immediate upgrade NOW.

I predict that someone will trade up to the 2nd, 3rd or 4th pick and take RGIII, if the Redskins sit on their thumbs hoping he will still be there at 6th or 7th. And that would be a disastrous fail.

Miami and Cleveland cannot be expected to be satisfied with Moore and McCoy, could be, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. KC is another who might consider the Cassel deal a failure and could be in play. Don't even rule out Denver, regardless of the Tebow parade ... but the real wild card here is Sealttle. Tavarius Jackson is just a place holder like Grossman, and that's the team I think will be after RGIII or Luck. I don't think the Rams are ready to dump Bradford, so between the Colts and Rams, one of those two teams are going to trade their pick and that's likely to be the Rams. Seattle needs a QB just as badly as the Redskins do, and that is the team we have to outbid for our QB.

Mark my words.

I am praying for RGIII. He could over come our offensive protection problems.

Kilmer72 wrote:I am praying for RGIII. He could over come our offensive protection problems.

What I like about him is also what I don't like. I like the fact that the kid can move and throw on the run ... that's a tough thing for defenses to game plan around as any will tell you about scheming Michael Vick. At the same time, those types are always at greater risk for injury compared to the pocket guys. And no matter how good you are, you're worthless on the bench or injured reserve.

RGIII is not a real big guy like Roethlisberger, and rather thin. (Also, his 6'2' height is suspected to be actually closer to 6' 1/2" and not 6'2").

To me, he's much more of a gamble than Luck is, but his potential is very intriguing. He could be a nightmare for opposing defenses.

I wouldn't want him to run all the time either. Yes, he can throw on the run. He can also throw in the pocket. If he does run he can break tackles. I wouldn't want him to be a target like MV is. I would prefer he only ran when there was no choice.

Kilmer72 wrote:I wouldn't want him to run all the time either. Yes, he can throw on the run. He can also throw in the pocket. If he does run he can break tackles. I wouldn't want him to be a target like MV is. I would prefer he only ran when there was no choice.

In my view RG III would be a stretch for us. We need Luck; there are more reasons he can have an immediate and positive impact for us.

I would be delighted if the Redskins could draft RG3, or get Mr. Lucky. However:

- Don't trade three first round picks to get either

- If "the right" QB is not available, don't pick the best QB left over.

- In fact, I trust Shanahan to pick the QB he likes, famous or not, if the guy is available. If not, it would be nice to have a clone of Sean Taylor...not a QB, but a player who could change a game.

RayNAustin wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:I am praying for RGIII. He could over come our offensive protection problems.

What I like about him is also what I don't like. I like the fact that the kid can move and throw on the run ... that's a tough thing for defenses to game plan around as any will tell you about scheming Michael Vick. At the same time, those types are always at greater risk for injury compared to the pocket guys. And no matter how good you are, you're worthless on the bench or injured reserve.

RGIII is not a real big guy like Roethlisberger, and rather thin. (Also, his 6'2' height is suspected to be actually closer to 6' 1/2" and not 6'2").

To me, he's much more of a gamble than Luck is, but his potential is very intriguing. He could be a nightmare for opposing defenses.

Kilmer72 wrote:I wouldn't want him to run all the time either. Yes, he can throw on the run. He can also throw in the pocket. If he does run he can break tackles. I wouldn't want him to be a target like MV is. I would prefer he only ran when there was no choice.

Regarding RGIII's size:

Everything I see says 6'2 220#. Everything. Wiki, BleacherReport, CBS, ESPN, you name it. Also, he is, without doubt, the most athletic football player in all of the NCAA and most, if not all, of the NFL.

Regarding running:

In college Aaron Rodgers ran 20% of the time he dropped back. That number is 11% as a pro.

Vick's numbers are 40% in college and 23% as a pro.

RGIII's college number is 30% - more than Rodgers but less than Vick.

I think we all want a guy with the physical tools who will be a passer more than a runner. I also think we all are envious when we play a guy who buys time and burns us. RGIII has amazing tools, passes first, and will create envy in the fans whose teams are trying to stop him.

DarthMonk

^+1

BTW... you might want to make sure you are logged onto YOUR account, next time... LOL.

PickSixerTWSS wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:I am praying for RGIII. He could over come our offensive protection problems.

What I like about him is also what I don't like. I like the fact that the kid can move and throw on the run ... that's a tough thing for defenses to game plan around as any will tell you about scheming Michael Vick. At the same time, those types are always at greater risk for injury compared to the pocket guys. And no matter how good you are, you're worthless on the bench or injured reserve.

RGIII is not a real big guy like Roethlisberger, and rather thin. (Also, his 6'2' height is suspected to be actually closer to 6' 1/2" and not 6'2").

To me, he's much more of a gamble than Luck is, but his potential is very intriguing. He could be a nightmare for opposing defenses.

Kilmer72 wrote:I wouldn't want him to run all the time either. Yes, he can throw on the run. He can also throw in the pocket. If he does run he can break tackles. I wouldn't want him to be a target like MV is. I would prefer he only ran when there was no choice.

Regarding RGIII's size:

Everything I see says 6'2 220#. Everything. Wiki, BleacherReport, CBS, ESPN, you name it. Also, he is, without doubt, the most athletic football player in all of the NCAA and most, if not all, of the NFL.

Regarding running:

In college Aaron Rodgers ran 20% of the time he dropped back. That number is 11% as a pro.

Vick's numbers are 40% in college and 23% as a pro.

RGIII's college number is 30% - more than Rodgers but less than Vick.

I think we all want a guy with the physical tools who will be a passer more than a runner. I also think we all are envious when we play a guy who buys time and burns us. RGIII has amazing tools, passes first, and will create envy in the fans whose teams are trying to stop him.

DarthMonk

Spot on analysis. he was next to Luck throughout the Heisman show. Minimal difference in height. He's lighter, but also runs a 4.3-4.4 40. I've seen him take some serious shots and he has held up well. 220lb is nothing to sneeze at. RGIII is a playmaker. I'll also bet our receivers get a lot better when they have some time to get open based on his ability to extend the play. Go get him and we are 4 games better as soon as he learns the offense.

Countertrey wrote:^+1

BTW... you might want to make sure you are logged onto YOUR account, next time... LOL.

Why whatever do you mean, Trey??





DarthMonk

Once again, I'll say that while RB III may represent strong potential for becoming a top tier NFL QB .... he's not a day one starter, and forcing him into that spot would probably not work out well.

I've looked at some of the games and highlights, and I tell you that he throws a lot of short stuff which significantly pads his stats. And, running a typical spread offense requires transition time to the pros, with even the best prospects tending to struggle with that transition ... while the risk is there that they don't make it at all.

If he does live up to his potential, he could be really good, eventually. But I'm thinking he's going to take time like Drew Brees did .... a couple of years were required before Brees was really an effective QB.

Andrew Luck is probably closer to being ready to start than Griffin III
MORE important is that we draft a QB that is very good for 10-12 years


Going to be interesting - Luck looks like a sure fire, big time QB but the cost is going to be high

Griffin III could be a very good QB here for nowhere near the cost of Andrew Luck


Andrew Luck being ready to play earlier is not as important as his being a good to great QB here for many years

Submitted for evidence. 67 on Washington. Might as well throw Ganaway in there as well! He displayed all of the qualities you want to see. Accuracy, elusiveness, short/patient throws when they took away deep, bombs when that opened again. Also, toughness because he was under duress most of the game. Case closed....

R Griffin III had a great night - hell, he had a great year

he's got all the tools to be a very good QB in the NFL - especially in the offenses of today


Andrew Luck is just better

hopefully this FO can pull off some MAJOR magic to get Luck ...
IF that doesn't work, I'm not sure that this FO will be as excited about Griffin III as many fans are

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... the-league

This is encouraging to hear these guys aren't sniffing glue. I was getting kind of nervous that they may actually think they can win with Rex

chiefhog44 wrote:http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8258b581/article/sorry-grossman-redskins-still-hunting-for-franchise-qb?module=HP11_around-the-league

This is encouraging to hear these guys aren't sniffing glue. I was getting kind of nervous that they may actually think they can win with Rex

I heard this today but I have a feeling that we're going to end up drafting our QB on day 2 or even 3 for that matter. I think that Mike Shanahan loves finding diamonds in the rough. Raw guys that he can mold instead of guys who are already molded but not how he likes them. If he does it and it works. I'm going to go nuts if it doesn't, I'll probably go nuts but in a different way.

The more I hear the inflated costs of getting into the Luck-RGIII lottery, the less appealing it becomes.

Even if the bidding for RGIII starts marginally lower than Luck. I've stated before that its possible he may be too much of a project for this coaching staff. Not knocking Griffins talent, I question that "Shannahan stubborness" to be able to mold an offense around him, to take advantage of his skill set. At least til he becomes more comfortable with the pro game.

If we were gonna go that route, I'd give Russel Wilson out of Wisconsin a look. We could trade down, pick up some extra picks. Maybe another O-lineman or D-back that makes an impact day 1 (a QB will not, unless its Luck)

The knock on Wilson is his size but, when you look at him on tape you just dont see it. Even behind a massive Wisconsin O-line. His mobility in the pocket allows him to find passing lanes, he's a dual threat QB with excellent speed and good arm strength. holds the NCAA record for most consecutive games with a passing TD. Playing in the Big 10 this year means he faced NFL caliber talent on a weekly basis.

IMO Wilson had the benefit of a better O-line at Wisconsin as well as RB.

I think RGIII had a better recieving corps.

I consider the competition they faced being equal even though this was a down year for the big 10, the Rose bowl game should even that up.

Stats for this season.

206 comp. 284 att. 72.5% THATS RIDICULOUS

31 TD's ......... 3 PICKS are you kidding me? Hes supposed to be too short to see over the o-line.

rushing- 4.4 YPC and 5 TD's.

And he's a local guy from Richmond Va. (Dont know how Beamer let this guy get away )

Give him a look in the Rose Bowl and see if you notice how small he is . I certainly dont.

I dont usually like to do highlight reels because...... well theyre just that, highlights. However, take a look. Keep in mind this guy is 5'11" around 200 lbs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8r7wLnb1xc

The negatives I see. doesnt play a pro style offense and holds the ball a long time.

However, look at the motion and release time once he does pull the trigger. Pretty darned quick. Now it shows him running alot in this video but, he had under 400 yards rushing for the year. Definitely not a run first guy , when he does, look at those feet and that stiff arm. Arm strength and accuracy look excellent. With feet like that, I dont think taking snaps under center will be a problem. He runs play action to perfection, a staple of this offense the second half. And you can just see that waggle or designed QB rollout that Kyle likes to run being really effective with Russell at QB.

How about character ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFMilEYy ... re=related


The more I read and learn about this kid, the more I think he could be pretty big here, even though hes kinda small.

frankcal20 wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8258b581/article/sorry-grossman-redskins-still-hunting-for-franchise-qb?module=HP11_around-the-league

This is encouraging to hear these guys aren't sniffing glue. I was getting kind of nervous that they may actually think they can win with Rex

I heard this today but I have a feeling that we're going to end up drafting our QB on day 2 or even 3 for that matter. I think that Mike Shanahan loves finding diamonds in the rough. Raw guys that he can mold instead of guys who are already molded but not how he likes them. If he does it and it works. I'm going to go nuts if it doesn't, I'll probably go nuts but in a different way.

That might be true about diamonds in the rough, but when he went after Cutler, it showed that he will got after his guy if he can afford it. History shows that he went after the right QB over Leinart and Young who were most coaches and the medias' favorites. Cutler wasn't a diamond in the rough, so the guy doesn't have to be such.

Plummer was rough, but he had a skill set the Shanny loved.

He likes Bradford, but Bradford cost too much to trade up for back the.

Also, he drafted Tommy Maddox in the late first round of one draft.

Maddox, Cutler, Plummer and Bradford gives you the idea of the QB that Shanny likes. That spells Luck or a guy the Shanny sees those qualities in ant others do not (your diamond in the rough). Bradford also says that Shanny will not spend the house to get a guy, so any Luck deal has to be a creative one that still helps us build for the future.

jmooney wrote:The more I hear the inflated costs of getting into the Luck-RGIII lottery, the less appealing it becomes.

Even if the bidding for RGIII starts marginally lower than Luck. I've stated before that its possible he may be too much of a project for this coaching staff. Not knocking Griffins talent, I question that "Shannahan stubborness" to be able to mold an offense around him, to take advantage of his skill set. At least til he becomes more comfortable with the pro game.

If we were gonna go that route, I'd give Russel Wilson out of Wisconsin a look. We could trade down, pick up some extra picks. Maybe another O-lineman or D-back that makes an impact day 1 (a QB will not, unless its Luck)

The knock on Wilson is his size but, when you look at him on tape you just dont see it. Even behind a massive Wisconsin O-line. His mobility in the pocket allows him to find passing lanes, he's a dual threat QB with excellent speed and good arm strength. holds the NCAA record for most consecutive games with a passing TD. Playing in the Big 10 this year means he faced NFL caliber talent on a weekly basis.

IMO Wilson had the benefit of a better O-line at Wisconsin as well as RB.

I think RGIII had a better recieving corps.

I consider the competition they faced being equal even though this was a down year for the big 10, the Rose bowl game should even that up.

Stats for this season.

206 comp. 284 att. 72.5% THATS RIDICULOUS

31 TD's ......... 3 PICKS are you kidding me? Hes supposed to be too short to see over the o-line.

rushing- 4.4 YPC and 5 TD's.

And he's a local guy from Richmond Va. (Dont know how Beamer let this guy get away )

Give him a look in the Rose Bowl and see if you notice how small he is . I certainly dont.

If you really want to see what Russell Wilson can do, go back and look at his tapes versus teams like UNC when he was at NC State. Check him out vs FSU. At Wisc. he's able to do more because he has legit weapons. At NC State, he was limited and essentially overachieved. Keep in mind he's the #2 QB in NC State history next to Phillip Rivers. Pretty good company.

PS - he doesn't hold the ball too long. He's actually known for avoiding sacks, not taking them and one key thing is he does NOT turn the ball over. Almost never it seemed while at State.

RayNAustin wrote:Once again, I'll say that while RB III may represent strong potential for becoming a top tier NFL QB .... he's not a day one starter, and forcing him into that spot would probably not work out well.

I've looked at some of the games and highlights, and I tell you that he throws a lot of short stuff which significantly pads his stats. And, running a typical spread offense requires transition time to the pros, with even the best prospects tending to struggle with that transition ... while the risk is there that they don't make it at all.

If he does live up to his potential, he could be really good, eventually. But I'm thinking he's going to take time like Drew Brees did .... a couple of years were required before Brees was really an effective QB.

Not a shot at Ray at all, he just reminded me of something. We have no idea if this kid could be a day 1 starter based solely on the offense he ran. More important, I think, is his football IQ, coachability, toughness, pocket presence, skills and work ethic. Because if all those things are there in spades (by the way, they are) then the spread offense habit breaking shouldn't be an issue. I can't recall if Cam ran a spread at Auburn at the moment, but I do know that everyone and their mama were predicting that he was too dumb, run oriented, poor work ethic, immature, blah blah blah to make it.

How's that prediction looking right now? In a strike shortened offseason, he got about his business and started day 1. The guy should be in the probowl for the year he's had. I mean, he had the audacity to break the rookie passing record held by Jesus. . . I mean Peyton Manning!