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So much for Suck for Luck. It's Suck for Griffin III now.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/12/1 ... or-baylor/

as I posted elsewhere

I LOVE that R Griffin III won the Heisman - BIG congratulations to him & his family



Hope he makes the top 10 in the draft - he will NOT be taken before Luck or Barkley

SprintRightOption wrote:So much for Suck for Luck. It's Suck for Griffin III now.

http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2011/12/1 ... or-baylor/

Peyton Manning didn't win the Heisman either amd I think someone coined "Whiff for Griff" as the slogan to get him.

SkinsJock wrote:as I posted elsewhere

I LOVE that R Griffin III won the Heisman - BIG congratulations to him & his family



Hope he makes the top 10 in the draft - he will NOT be taken before Luck or Barkley

Andrew Luck looks a lot bigger compared to the other guys. I just checked his stats. He is 6ft 4inches 235lbs, while Griffin is 6ft 2in. 220lbs.

Did anyone notice who won the Heisman last year? - where is he now?

- Griffin III had a great year and thoroughly deserved the Heisman



Andrew Luck is so far ahead of R Griffin III as far as their potential in the NFL is concerned - NOT even close

Future Redskin.

I'm still in favor of Matt Barkley for the Skins. But, I would not be mad if we take RG3. He seems like a quality character guy, and is obviously talented. When standing next to Luck, he doesn't appear 2 inches shorter. Either Luck isn't 6'4 or he isn't 6'2, we will find out at the Combine.

I prefer Barkley because I believe that our OC wouldn't know how to use RG3 anyway. Kyle isn't flexible enough. I think Barkley will be a great pro, and his skills fit the mold of what it appears that Kyle wants.

If they're willing to tweak the offense to win with RG3, I'm all for it. But, I doubt they are.

I'm still in favor of Matt Barkley for the Skins. But, I would not be mad if we take RG3. He seems like a quality character guy, and is obviously talented. When standing next to Luck, he doesn't appear 2 inches shorter. Either Luck isn't 6'4 or he isn't 6'2, we will find out at the Combine.

I prefer Barkley because I believe that our OC wouldn't know how to use RG3 anyway. Kyle isn't flexible enough. I think Barkley will be a great pro, and his skills fit the mold of what it appears that Kyle wants.

If they're willing to tweak the offense to win with RG3, I'm all for it. But, I doubt they are.

Smithian wrote:Future Redskin.

Heisman winning QB's scare me. They almost always such in the prod. Sure there are some that overcome that, but it still gives me pause.

I haven't watched any of the top college QBs, but from what I've read RGIII seems to be a very accurate kid with over the top athleticism and he is smart, hard worker to boot!

Seems like his only two knocks are his experience and the Heisman.

Ill take griff like I been spittin for months! His heisman might put him up in the draft tho... Hope we get someone good

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Smithian wrote:Future Redskin.

Heisman winning QB's scare me. They almost always such in the prod. Sure there are some that overcome that, but it still gives me pause.

I haven't watched any of the top college QBs, but from what I've read RGIII seems to be a very accurate kid with over the top athleticism and he is smart, hard worker to boot!

Seems like his only two knocks are his experience and the Heisman.

He actually has a lot of expierience. He has started 3 years. Was redshirted his sophmore year after an injury. His numbers got better every year he played.

I'd love to have him. super smart and athletic,

Warmother wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Smithian wrote:Future Redskin.

Heisman winning QB's scare me. They almost always such in the prod. Sure there are some that overcome that, but it still gives me pause.

I haven't watched any of the top college QBs, but from what I've read RGIII seems to be a very accurate kid with over the top athleticism and he is smart, hard worker to boot!

Seems like his only two knocks are his experience and the Heisman.

He actually has a lot of expierience. He has started 3 years. Was redshirted his sophmore year after an injury. His numbers got better every year he played.

I'd love to have him. super smart and athletic,

Gibbs???

Joe Gibbs would take the smart guy who can throw long and accurately. That was Rypien, and, thinking about it, I'm not sure any Redskin QB since then has been as good.

Maybe there's a risk: Shuler, Ramsey, and Campbell were first rounders, and Shuler was drafted back-to-back with Trent Dilfer. Considered the best of that year.

Ryan Leaf?

The "Whiff for Griff" campaign was coined by me, as a tongue in cheek response to an out of control poster who stole an earlier tongue in cheek campaign (Suck for Luck) and, apparently, went over the edge.

I really like RGIII, a lot. He is going to be a superior NFL quarterback. Super disciplined. Super smart. Super athletic, and a Super leader. He is not, however, NFL Ready. I would not be at all unhappy if he is selected by the Redskins, but it does mean that we will suffer through at least part of a season with Grossman, or some other journeyman, as our quarterback.

I expect that, if he comes out, Matt Barkley will be selected by the skins... I'm fine with that, too... had I found another verb for "miss" that rhymed with Barkley... I'd have used it... Barkley IS NFL ready, and will likely be ready to run, if not the first game, then within a few weeks of the start of the season.

I don't see either of these young QB's missing. Both will have successful careers... One of them will have that career with the Redskins. Hail.

frankcal20 wrote:

Warmother wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote: Heisman winning QB's scare me. They almost always such in the prod. Sure there are some that overcome that, but it still gives me pause.

I haven't watched any of the top college QBs, but from what I've read RGIII seems to be a very accurate kid with over the top athleticism and he is smart, hard worker to boot!

Seems like his only two knocks are his experience and the Heisman.

He actually has a lot of expierience. He has started 3 years. Was redshirted his sophmore year after an injury. His numbers got better every year he played.

I'd love to have him. super smart and athletic,

Gibbs???

I knew I'd heard that before!

I'm hoping we get Barkley but either RG III or Barkley will be good NFL QBs for a long time

I hope that we get a good QB and I would NOT base any credence AT ALL - in selecting a QB that suits what Kyle wants

we need a good QB that can be the Redskins QB for many years after Kyle is gone

Countertrey wrote: I don't see either of these young QB's missing. Both will have successful careers... One of them will have that career with the Redskins. Hail.

I really hope one of them finds his way to the Skins (I'm starting to lean towards RGIII), but one thing to caution is what NFL stats say.

Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so). Of course so-so would be an improvement in our QB situatuion.

There have been so many good first round QBs lately that I'm afraid the tide will swing back th other way and it kind of looks like it started with Gabbert.

The fear that 2 or 3 of these guys won't be franchise QBs makes me want to lean in the direction of RGIII. The worst we get with him is an extremely athetic, hard working, "super Smart" player. He may not be the next coming of Peyton, Johnny U, or Slinging Sammy, but he will have the tools to win us a LOT OF GAMES.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Countertrey wrote: I don't see either of these young QB's missing. Both will have successful careers... One of them will have that career with the Redskins. Hail.

I really hope one of them finds his way to the Skins (I'm starting to lean towards RGIII), but one thing to caution is what NFL stats say.
Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so). Of course so-so would be an improvement in our QB situatuion.
There have been so many good first round QBs lately that I'm afraid the tide will swing back the other way and it kind of looks like it started with Gabbert.
The fear that 2 or 3 of these guys won't be franchise QBs makes me want to lean in the direction of RGIII. The worst we get with him is an extremely athetic, hard working, "super Smart" player. He may not be the next coming of Peyton, Johnny U, or Slinging Sammy, but he will have the tools to win us a LOT OF GAMES.

this is amazing to me - 2 of the top 4 NFL QBs that are drafted will 'flop'

I'm not sure exactly who the top 4 are but 2 of them are Luck and Barkley or Griffin - I just find it hard to fathom that any of those guys are going to 'flop' - now the fact that all 3 might not be good QBs is one thing - to intimate that 1 is going to be a 'flop' AND to base that on stats just makes me mad
I think that all 3 will help the teams and offenses they play with over the time they spend in the NFL

I highly doubt that there are ANY NFL scouts OR FO people on decent programs that think about what the past stats say about the prospects they are considering coming out of college

I can hear it now - "we can't take that guy, he'd be the 3rd LB picked in the 2nd round ... 'stats' have shown that the 3rd LB taken in the 2nd round is a bust every time ... "
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME

this is probably the kind of thinking that Dumb & Dumber used here
"Let's not use draft picks - so many of them are just huge gambles, let's give them to another team"





I'll make one other comment here - the most important thing that this FO does differently that the previous guys in charge here is that they, FOR THE MOST PART, have added players that help make this franchise deeper, younger AND most importantly, have helped make the other players around them better

this is key - we often hear about how many players in the top 2 rounds do not fulfill their perceived potential - BUT you've got to appreciate the effort and drive to be better by the many players that are taken in rounds 3 thru 7 and who become big time NFL players
THat IS THE KEY HERE with this FO - they have to keep adding those low round picks that are really diamonds in the rough

SkinsJock wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Countertrey wrote: I don't see either of these young QB's missing. Both will have successful careers... One of them will have that career with the Redskins. Hail.

I really hope one of them finds his way to the Skins (I'm starting to lean towards RGIII), but one thing to caution is what NFL stats say.
Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so). Of course so-so would be an improvement in our QB situatuion.
There have been so many good first round QBs lately that I'm afraid the tide will swing back the other way and it kind of looks like it started with Gabbert.
The fear that 2 or 3 of these guys won't be franchise QBs makes me want to lean in the direction of RGIII. The worst we get with him is an extremely athetic, hard working, "super Smart" player. He may not be the next coming of Peyton, Johnny U, or Slinging Sammy, but he will have the tools to win us a LOT OF GAMES.

this is amazing to me - 2 of the top 4 NFL QBs that are drafted will 'flop'

I'm not sure exactly who the top 4 are but 2 of them are Luck and Barkley or Griffin - I just find it hard to fathom that any of those guys are going to 'flop' - now the fact that all 3 might not be good QBs is one thing - to intimate that 1 is going to be a 'flop' AND to base that on stats just makes me mad
I think that all 3 will help the teams and offenses they play with over the time they spend in the NFL

I highly doubt that there are ANY NFL scouts OR FO people on decent programs that think about what the past stats say about the prospects they are considering coming out of college

I can hear it now - "we can't take that guy, he'd be the 3rd LB picked in the 2nd round ... 'stats' have shown that the 3rd LB taken in the 2nd round is a bust every time ... "
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME

No I'm NOT freaking kidding you. No I don't mean the first two guys will be good and the next two will suck, I don't know how you got that out of what I posted.

What I'm saying is if you look back at the first round QBs drafted over the past 20 years more than half of them flop, another quarter are just OK and less than 25% (actually much less) of the QBs taken are legitimist franchise guys. Of course this probably holds true with other positions to some extent too.

NO I’M NOT SAYING THAT TWO WILL BE BUST! What I'm saying is the olds say two of them will likely be flops, busts, failures, or whatever label you want to put on a QB that can’t play.

You would have to be a moron not to acknowledge the risk. And you would be even more of a fool if you don't think the teams aren't aware of this!

So, no, the team won't be swayed by the fact that half of the QBs that are drafted in the first round are likely to be bust, but I guarantee the teams know the statistics on draft successes and failures at each and every position. And they will weigh that risk!

This is the list for 1st round pick over the years from 1990 to 2009. I didn’t include 2010 and 2011 because it is just too soon to judge them. You tell me which player are legit franchise QBs and which ones are so-so and which are bust:


Year
2009
Matthew Stafford

2009
Mark Sanchez

2009
Josh Freeman

2008
Matt Ryan

2008
Joe Flacco

2007
JaMarcus Russell

2007
Brady Quinn

2006
Vince Young

2006
Matt Leinart

2006
Jay Cutler

2005
Alex Smith

2005
Aaron Rodgers

2005
Jason Campbell

2004
Eli Manning

2004
Philip Rivers

2004
Ben Roethlisberger

2004
J.P. Losman

2003
Carson Palmer

2003
Byron Leftwich

2003
Kyle Boller

2003
Rex Grossman

2002
David Carr

2002
Joey Harrington

2002
Patrick Ramsey

2001
Michael Vick

2000
Chad Pennington

1999
Tim Couch

1999
Donovan McNabb

1999
Akili Smith

1999
Daunte Culpepper

1999
Cade McNown

1998
Peyton Manning

1998
Ryan Leaf

1997
Jim Druckenmiller

1995
Steve McNair

1995
Kerry Collins

1994
Heath Shuler

1994
Trent Dilfer

1993
Drew Bledsoe

1993
Rick Mirer

1992
David Klingler

1992
Tommy Maddox

1991
Dan McGwire

1991
Todd Marinovich

1990
Jeff George

1990
Andre Ware

skinsfan#33 wrote:I really hope one of them finds his way to the Skins (I'm starting to lean towards RGIII), but one thing to caution is what NFL stats say.
Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so).
Of course so-so would be an improvement in our QB situatuion.
There have been so many good first round QBs lately that I'm afraid the tide will swing back the other way and it kind of looks like it started with Gabbert.
The fear that 2 or 3 of these guys won't be franchise QBs makes me want to lean in the direction of RGIII. The worst we get with him is an extremely athetic, hard working, "super Smart" player. He may not be the next coming of Peyton, Johnny U, or Slinging Sammy, but he will have the tools to win us a LOT OF GAMES.

skinsfan#33 wrote:No I don't mean the first two guys will be good and the next two will suck, I don't know how you got that out of what I posted.

You posted

Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop

then you posted

I’M NOT SAYING THAT TWO WILL BE BUST! What I'm saying is the odds say two of them will likely be flops, busts, failures, or whatever label you want to put on a QB that can’t play.

I'm sorry but I took it to mean what you posted, is all

but now I'm not sure what that was

btw - RG III will take a while to get ready to play so you'll have a few months to figure it all out

SkinsJock wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:I really hope one of them finds his way to the Skins (I'm starting to lean towards RGIII), but one thing to caution is what NFL stats say.
Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so).
Of course so-so would be an improvement in our QB situatuion.
There have been so many good first round QBs lately that I'm afraid the tide will swing back the other way and it kind of looks like it started with Gabbert.
The fear that 2 or 3 of these guys won't be franchise QBs makes me want to lean in the direction of RGIII. The worst we get with him is an extremely athetic, hard working, "super Smart" player. He may not be the next coming of Peyton, Johnny U, or Slinging Sammy, but he will have the tools to win us a LOT OF GAMES.

skinsfan#33 wrote:No I don't mean the first two guys will be good and the next two will suck, I don't know how you got that out of what I posted.

You posted

Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop

then you posted

I’M NOT SAYING THAT TWO WILL BE BUST! What I'm saying is the odds say two of them will
likely be flops, busts, failures, or whatever label you want
to put on a QB that can’t play.

I'm sorry but I took it to mean what you posted, is all

but now I'm not sure what that was

btw - RG III will take a while to get ready to play so you'll have a few months to figure it all out

I did mean what I posted. I'm having a hard time understanding why you can't get the fact that I was talking about the odds or the average. I didn't think I need to insult your intelligence by spelling out out like I was talking to a 5 year old.

Let me try.

If you toss a coin 10 times the stats says it will come up heads 5 times. Now does that mean it WILL come up head 5 times? No, of course not. But what it does mean is if you flip that coin enough half of the time it will be heads and half of the time it will be tails.

The stats say, bases on past draft history that most of the QB selected won't end up being a franchise QB and the majority will be flops.

I gave you the list. You decide who you consider a franchise QB, an average QB, or a flop. Make up any list you want, but it will have over half of them being flops.

So, half of the first round QBs that are selected in the first round will likely flop, or the stats say the odds are they will flop.

I hope this helps, because I don't think I can make what I was trying to say any more clear!

no worries

I just do not agree with the words that YOU posted:

Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so)

I understand that stats show that 50% of the QBs will 'flop'

I just do NOT agree that this applies to the top 4 QBs this year

I do NOT agree that NFL guys will consider that % with the top 4 QBs this year or any year




we shall see soon

SkinsJock wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Countertrey wrote: I don't see either of these young QB's missing. Both will have successful careers... One of them will have that career with the Redskins. Hail.

I really hope one of them finds his way to the Skins (I'm starting to lean towards RGIII), but one thing to caution is what NFL stats say.
Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so). Of course so-so would be an improvement in our QB situatuion.
There have been so many good first round QBs lately that I'm afraid the tide will swing back the other way and it kind of looks like it started with Gabbert.
The fear that 2 or 3 of these guys won't be franchise QBs makes me want to lean in the direction of RGIII. The worst we get with him is an extremely athetic, hard working, "super Smart" player. He may not be the next coming of Peyton, Johnny U, or Slinging Sammy, but he will have the tools to win us a LOT OF GAMES.

this is amazing to me - 2 of the top 4 NFL QBs that are drafted will 'flop'

I'm not sure exactly who the top 4 are but 2 of them are Luck and Barkley or Griffin - I just find it hard to fathom that any of those guys are going to 'flop' - now the fact that all 3 might not be good QBs is one thing - to intimate that 1 is going to be a 'flop' AND to base that on stats just makes me mad
I think that all 3 will help the teams and offenses they play with over the time they spend in the NFL

I highly doubt that there are ANY NFL scouts OR FO people on decent programs that think about what the past stats say about the prospects they are considering coming out of college

I can hear it now - "we can't take that guy, he'd be the 3rd LB picked in the 2nd round ... 'stats' have shown that the 3rd LB taken in the 2nd round is a bust every time ... "
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME

this is probably the kind of thinking that Dumb & Dumber used here
"Let's not use draft picks - so many of them are just huge gambles, let's give them to another team"





I'll make one other comment here - the most important thing that this FO does differently that the previous guys in charge here is that they, FOR THE MOST PART, have added players that help make this franchise deeper, younger AND most importantly, have helped make the other players around them better

this is key - we often hear about how many players in the top 2 rounds do not fulfill their perceived potential - BUT you've got to appreciate the effort and drive to be better by the many players that are taken in rounds 3 thru 7 and who become big time NFL players
THat IS THE KEY HERE with this FO - they have to keep adding those low round picks that are really diamonds in the rough

RGIII has the greatest chance of flopping because he has the most work to do. Doesn't really play under center, tends to bail out of the pocket too soon, needs to work on his footwork, etc. The transition from spread to pro style is a lot more difficult than people think.

SkinsJock wrote:no worries

I just do not agree with the words that YOU posted:

Stats say that two of the top four QBs will flop, one will succeed, and one will be OK to good (or so-so)

I understand that stats show that 50% of the QBs will 'flop'

I just do NOT agree that this applies to the top 4 QBs this year

I do NOT agree that NFL guys will consider that % with the top 4 QBs this year or any year


we shall see soon

I agree, that it may not hold true with the top for on this draft and never intended to imply that it will. I was just trying to point out that the odds are that it could. Maybe I did a poor job of conveying that thought.

I was just trying to point out that historically two of the guys probably will flop. Personally I hope they on turn out to be franchise QBs, but it just isn't realistic to expect that.

I hope none of them fail and they all buck the odds, but I'm not holding my breath.

no worries - I take things too literally too often

It's a fact (not just a stat) that a high percentage of top rated college QBs do not do well in the NFL

I see that Canes thinks that RG III might not work out
I'd think that he's going to have a great attitude and be V motivated to do well

We are most likely not getting Luck or Barkley - Griffin III might be our QB - that's a good thing