The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Mikey Shan said, "for whatever reason" we didn't win or get it done...blah blah blah....

HEY MIKE..... for whatever reason??? Really, really.

Reason "we" lost is your BONEHEADED son Kyle getting away from the Run Game. My goodness, have a clue Mike....

Time to FIRE your boy.

With Rex at QB, there's strong argument for running the ball on every damn down. Or just punting on first down.

Why this idiot continues to think Wrecks Grossman can effectively run a pass-heavy offense is beyond me.

Guys, get serious. Kyle Shanahan is not the problem. Sure, he had some stars in Texas under Kubiak, but he proved his mettle. The problem isn't the offensive coordinator it's the offense.

Our offense consists of:

-Rex Grossman- a below average quarterback who would have to fight for the backup job on some teams.

-Roy Helu- who is only now starting to prove himself.

-A patchwork o-line with tissue thin depth.

-A stoner TE

-and a WR corps that consists of Moss and a bunch of alsorans.

The team is terrible ON PAPER and Daddy Shanny bears the responsibility for that. Kyle Shanahan can't turn water into wine. These guys just suck, plain and simple.

But when our offense begins to click (i.e. Helu's good rushing), Kyle abandons what's working to a pass heavy "attack" (i.e. interceptions and/or turnovers) thanks to his buddy Rex. It's his fault for continuing to run garbage plays with garbage players.

Skinsfan55 wrote:The team is terrible ON PAPER and Daddy Shanny bears the responsibility for that. Kyle Shanahan can't turn water into wine. These guys just suck, plain and simple.

While I will agree that there is very little there for Kyle to work with, he refuses to even use the few things he has effectively. That is an even more pathetic mistake than the losing so far as I'm concerned.

Kyle "takes" what the opposing D gives him........ BLAH BLAH BLAH

In the words of Herm: YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME

Seemed like we were not very effective on 1st downs, specifically when we passed. I don’t know the splits, but Kyle seemed a little pass-happy on 1st down and most of those passes were either incomplete of went for negative yards. Hard to be effective when it’s always 2nd and 10.

Give me a break. We didn't lose yesterday because of Kyle Shanahan. We lost because the Jets are a better, more talented and deeper team.

StorminMormon86 wrote:But when our offense begins to click (i.e. Helu's good rushing), Kyle abandons what's working to a pass heavy "attack" (i.e. interceptions and/or turnovers) thanks to his buddy Rex. It's his fault for continuing to run garbage plays with garbage players.

We have no capable running backs besides Helu. Helu got 27 touches yesterday. What more do you want? It's his first year in the NFL it makes ZERO sense to feed him the ball 30 times a game, it'll either get him hurt or wear him down.

Guys, get serious. Kyle Shanahan is not the problem. Sure, he had some stars in Texas under Kubiak, but he proved his mettle. The problem isn't the offensive coordinator it's the offense.

Our offense consists of:

-Rex Grossman- a below average quarterback who would have to fight for the backup job on some teams.

-Roy Helu- who is only now starting to prove himself.

-A patchwork o-line with tissue thin depth.

-A stoner TE

-and a WR corps that consists of Moss and a bunch of alsorans.

The team is terrible ON PAPER and Daddy Shanny bears the responsibility for that. Kyle Shanahan can't turn water into wine. These guys just suck, plain and simple.

+1

Kyle Shanahan IS a big part of the problem.
1: HE is responsible for the presence, and continued involvement of Rex Grossman.
2: HE has no ability to develop a rhythm in calling a game. In the late 2nd quarter, with gifts of field position, he chose to PASS, PASS, PASS, and PASS, PASS, PASS, when the running game was still very effective... resulting in FAIL, FAIL, FAIL. This is a recurring theme with him, and demonstrates a fundamental lack of competence in game management.

In other words, it is my considered opinion that... he sucks.

CanesSkins26 said:

Helu got 27 touches yesterday.

Indeed, he did. However, only 23 were run plays. 4 were passes.

Total offensive plays: 71. Total Rush plays: 23.
There should have been at least 8 more, with 5 or more coming when we had those excellent field position bonuses...

Don't go there in your defense of the undefensible. Once again, we lose the TOP... and we lose the game. TOP ALWAYS relates to run plays. ALWAYS. TOP results in a rested defense, that stays sharp. TOP results in an opposing d line that is winded and fatigued. A winded and fatigued opposing D line results in more running plays that get to the second level... and burn even more clock.

Wanna blame the O line? There were 2 sacks... on both, Grossman held the ball way too long while standing like a statue, wearing a sign that said "Tattoo Me". On 23 Rushes, Helu gained 100 yards. He did not do that by himself.

The run wasn't totally abandoned after the half.. But when the box is stacked and u can't throw for crap teams will play to stop the run and dare you to pass. The play calling isn't why Rex missed open recievers all day that would have kept the D honest. We aren't good enough to run every down.. It just won't work

cowboykillerzRED wrote:The run wasn't totally abandoned after the half.. But when the box is stacked and u can't throw for crap teams will play to stop the run and dare you to pass. The play calling isn't why Rex missed open recievers all day that would have kept the D honest. We aren't good enough to run every down.. It just won't work

Shanahan stopped running long before the Jets had gameplanned adjustments. That is a fact.

Again... Rex is Kyle's baby. Kyle owns him. Kyle is the reason he is the quarterback. Kyle is responsible to game plan a scheme that even Rex can operate.

The Rex isn't executing excuse DOES NOT FLY. These two are joined at the hip.

I am not at all sure that Kyle is a good OC - the offense he had in Houston was successful because the players were playing together and suited what he wanted to have them do

a good coach gets more from his players because he game plans & coaches players to execute, be it offense OR defense
Kyle is not able to get more from his players or 'his offense' because he's not good

there is an old adage in sports - a good coach can beat you with his players OR with your players

Coach Kyle is NOT able to get 'more' from his players OR to game plan to suit what he's got

This team is where offensive coordinators come to die. We probly hired Mike Shanahan just so we could use the father/son card to get an OC in here. Otherwise I can't understand why anyone would want to do that to their career. That said, I haven't been impressed. But I really didn't expect to be with this offense. Maybe when we actually draft some offense, which will hopefully be this draft, things will improve.

Passing on every down is just idiotic. Even the announcers were like "dude" WTF.

brad7686 wrote:... I haven't been impressed. But I really didn't expect to be with this offense. Maybe when we actually draft some offense, which will hopefully be this draft, things will improve.

I'd agree that the offensive outlook was not great .. ESPECIALLY when we could not get a QB to get ready to take over

We knew what we had with Grossman but we really mis-judged Beck's potential to play even as a back-up QB


HOWEVER .. THE TEAM is only as good as the players AND the coaches - good players look really good when combined with players that suit each other AND coaches that know how to take advantage of all that

We need a good QB but we also need the coaches to do better with the players they have when we bring in players that better suit each other

the transition from Dumb & Dumber is still ongoing
when we have the players we will still need a much better performance from our OC and DC

Leading a pretty damn good D well into the fourth quarter while miss opportunities to put up seven vs three must be his fault too right? We did good yesterday vs a top tier D with a mediocre O and garbage qb. If Rex hit tanna when he was wide open a few times we win and all this Kyle bashing doesn't happen. What ever I know losing sucks but blaming Kyle is weak sauce. Guess he made Helu AND Rex fumble huh? Fact is we lost as a team play calling was good enough. I wish we pounded it in before halftime but a better qb prolly makes a play there too... Hell becksy woulda dove it in! Rex just sucks and I blame him outright before pointing to Kyle

How many Head Coaches and coordinators can we blame? The Redskins have had every style of offense and every different possible coach you can think of and we have not won ...

its the personal moves that are killing this team and those up until these last 2 years were made by people who had no business making those decisions

For once why dont we let a coach complete his vision and allow an offense to stay in place for more than a year or 2 so we can become consistent and the players are familiar and we can open the playbook up even more...

The calls for the coaches head and the OC's head are exactly why we never win.. because Dan Snyder for the longest time made decisions like a fan and look where that got us.. its year 2.. calls for anyones head is idiotic at this point

where is everyone who was reserved and tame when Mike & Kyle were hired saying we needed to give them time and before this season preaching patience.. lets blow it up again.. maybe we can get another big name coach in here to appease all the fans that have figured out what we are doing wrong

everydayAskinsday wrote:The calls for the coaches head and the OC's head are exactly why we never win.. because Dan Snyder for the longest time made decisions like a fan and look where that got us.. its year 2.. calls for anyones head is idiotic at this point

where is everyone who was reserved and tame when Mike & Kyle were hired saying we needed to give them time and before this season preaching patience.. lets blow it up again.. maybe we can get another big name coach in here to appease all the fans that have figured out what we are doing wrong

Words of sanity. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

riggofan wrote:

everydayAskinsday wrote:The calls for the coaches head and the OC's head are exactly why we never win.. because Dan Snyder for the longest time made decisions like a fan and look where that got us.. its year 2.. calls for anyones head is idiotic at this point

where is everyone who was reserved and tame when Mike & Kyle were hired saying we needed to give them time and before this season preaching patience.. lets blow it up again.. maybe we can get another big name coach in here to appease all the fans that have figured out what we are doing wrong

Words of sanity. Thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I suspect that I would ordinarily be considered a rational, patient skins fan. To this point, I am FINE with continuing in a team development mode, giving our rooks and younglings plenty of game exposure.

Yet, the incessant need to find excuses for these OC failures baffle me. Kyle's game management is atrocious. This was a winnable game. Blame Rex all you want, the game was placed in his hands UNECESSARILY. Blame Gano for the worlds most hideous pooch kick off... but why weren't we kicking to the end zone???

No matter who you try to divert blame to, the run game was working when Kyle abandoned it. For example, when you have an explosive and elusive runner like Helu, wouldn't a draw be worth considering on the occasional 3rd and long? Shouldn't you be looking for opportunities to get him one on one with defenders in the run game????? As a practical matter, the draw does not exist in Kyle's vocabulary.

I KNOW what it looks like when a defense shuts down our run game. I DID NOT see that yesterday, nor in MOST of our previous losses, at the point when Kyle decided to amaze everyone with his brilliance, and turn to the genius of Rex to win the game on his arm. Will you deny that in some games, down by one score, Kyle has abandoned the run in the first quarter... when the run WAS effective?

No.

It's clear. Kyle abandons the run at the drop of a hat, simply because his system demands that he pass... and he is on record as declaring that HE does not change his system to the players... Despite claims otherwise, the Jets did not stop our run game. Kyle Shanahan did that.

People... that is a problem... it is arrogance, pure and simple...
While the performance of the team may improve with a blue chip rookie, I have to point out, both Rex AND Beck were hand chosen by Kyle to run his game.

HAND CHOSEN.

What more needs to be said?

What more, indeed


Mike has got to do something about this - it's obvious to us - he's got to see the same thing
Mike's in an even better place than we are - he sees the practices too


Kyle's not the whole problem here but I really doubt that he can help much either

cowboykillerzRED wrote:The run wasn't totally abandoned after the half.. But when the box is stacked and u can't throw for crap teams will play to stop the run and dare you to pass. The play calling isn't why Rex missed open recievers all day that would have kept the D honest. We aren't good enough to run every down.. It just won't work

The issue is

1) Who picked Grossman and Beck? Joe Gibbs? Jim Zorn? No, Mike and Kyle. You can bet Kyle pushed the Grossman deal due to his being there with Kyle in Houston, and we already know Kyle was heavily lobbying Houston to draft Beck with their #1 pick. So blaming the QB, which is valid, is also blaming those who chose that QB.

2) Offensive coordinators must adjust just like D-coordinators do. And you can only "take what the defense gives you" if you are successful doing it. It's likely that the defense will only "give you" what they believe you cannot take. Therefore, you adjust your strategy to make what you do well work against what they do to stop it. If you're running left successfully .. keep doing it until they commit to stopping you. Once they commit to stopping that, that should mean an opening exists elsewhere, and it is the man calling the plays that must be able to quickly make those adjustments DURING the game ... Kyle seems incapable of doing this a week in advance.

I've seen some plays where we have three receivers running deep routs simultaneously, with their backs turned to the QB who is under pressure. That should never happen. On any given play, there should be someone open if the play is designed properly ... you've got to exploit match ups and get faster guys on slower guys ... like line backers. Expecting Grossman/Gaffney to exploit Revis is begging for failure.

To heck with this business that they are just a superior team crap. They have good players and we have good players, and it was a dog fight for the majority of the game until a couple of self defeating mistakes sunk the ship ... a fumble ... a chile dip kick off ... poor play calling when we are gifted with a grand opportunity ... it's always something with this team, and that goes right back to preparation, focus, execution and COACHING.

There are at least three games this year that we should have won, and that would have put us in the thick of the race. One of the most glaring errors at this point is clear ... the complete miscalculation of the talent of both QBs the Shanahans decided were viable. They were wrong and we see the results.

Just look at what Denver has been able to accomplish with Tebow! Now, no one is going to confuse Tebow with a top flight QB .. at least not at this stage. Denver has figured out a way to structure their offense to take advantage of his talents and not ask him to do what he is not proficient at. That's coaching. Just pushing a guy out there like the Redskins have done, saying .. we want you to do this and you ought to be able to do it because that's what worked in Houston has failed to produce results FOR TWO YEARS.

Countertrey wrote: Yet, the incessant need to find excuses for these OC failures baffle me. Kyle's game management is atrocious. This was a winnable game. Blame Rex all you want, the game was placed in his hands UNECESSARILY. Blame Gano for the worlds most hideous pooch kick off... but why weren't we kicking to the end zone???

I don't need to make excuses for the OC, and I even agree that Kyle shouldn't have gotten away from the run in the second half. I just think this stuff is completely overrated. These coordinators get way too much credit when a team is doing well and in this case a retarded amount of blame when the team is sucking. Who is this offensive genius that we should have had calling plays that would have beaten the Jets Sunday? Al Saunders? Jim Zorn? Joe Gibbs?

I just think its a lame excuse and typical of the fan base. Kyle Shanahan is the whipping boy that frustrated fans have latched onto around here for whatever reason.