The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I don't get it. Hoe come Shanahan refuses to use Helu as a feature RB when it clearly shows game after game he is the most talented of the trio and has produced at a much higher level even with his limited touches. Hey Shanny, get your head out of your arse!

Per Mike, he's not consistent in picking up the blitz. With a leaky o-line, that is a paramount skill that he doesn't quite have a handle on.

Ryan Torain isn't exactly a great blocker or great a blitz pick-up, I just don't see at this point how blitz pick-up can be the reason any longer to not use Helu more. Helu is more of a threat out of the backfield on screens as well and that should slow the pass rush some, I think it's time for him to get an opportunity to carry the ball 20+ times (assuming we are in a game to do so and Kyle would call it, that's another story though) and see what he can do when he's in a groove with the o-line.

The way I see it, we are playing our second and string at so many positions that it is of paramount importance to protect Rex as best we can. The upside is that the reps seem to be helping. Maybe next year we will have a better overall quality of depth because of playing time in the system. The CBA with its limits on practices makes this in a way advantagious for a team still missing critical parts in its rebuilding process.
That said, I think Helu would benefit more from the playing time.

oneman56 wrote:Ryan Torain isn't exactly a great blocker or great a blitz pick-up

He doesn't have to be great but according to the HC he's better than Helu. Which means that if Torain is as mediocre as you're ASSUMING...that must mean the person you're endorsing must really suck at it.

HarleyHog wrote:The way I see it, we are playing our second and string at so many positions that it is of paramount importance to protect Rex as best we can.

Thank you, someone gets it.

it's not about "getting it". I get it, my point and OPINION is that I'd like to see Helu get more carries. Do you have the need to be argumentative at every opportunity? Reading through these boards you are constantly quoting and being argumentative and I knew you'd do so again. Torain may be better but he's still not good, if that's the excuse for Helu not getting more PT my OPINION is that's pretty lame at this point in a 3-7 season. I understand you may feel differently but that doesnt' mean someone doesn't "get it".

........some people are just MEAN, I'm just saying........!!!

oneman56 wrote:it's not about "getting it". I get it, my point and OPINION is that I'd like to see Helu get more carries. Do you have the need to be argumentative at every opportunity?

U want to put in a player who has a known deficiency in order to increase productivity? Is that what you're telling me? U want to put Grossman in more danger and potentially decrease his shaky production? U want to put in a player who may possibly cause more 3&Out's and stop our ability to truly evaluate other positions? No thank u.

He gets a few touches as is, he can get more when he can pick up a blitz.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

oneman56 wrote:it's not about "getting it". I get it, my point and OPINION is that I'd like to see Helu get more carries. Do you have the need to be argumentative at every opportunity?

U want to put in a player who has a known deficiency in order to increase productivity? Is that what you're telling me?

I think he is saying he wants to post his opinions on the Internet and not have anyone disagree with him.

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

oneman56 wrote:it's not about "getting it". I get it, my point and OPINION is that I'd like to see Helu get more carries. Do you have the need to be argumentative at every opportunity?

U want to put in a player who has a known deficiency in order to increase productivity? Is that what you're telling me?

I think he is saying he wants to post his opinions on the Internet and not have anyone disagree with him.

I could state a fact here but smell a quote/argument reply.

DarthMonk

Double RB set anyone? Helu go out in a short route while Torain blocks? there, everyone wins because Torain is blocking and Helu gets the ball.

Dag I shoulda been a coach!!!

NYFINESTSKINSFAN wrote:I don't get it. Hoe come Shanahan refuses to use Helu as a feature RB when it clearly shows game after game he is the most talented of the trio and has produced at a much higher level even with his limited touches. Hey Shanny, get your head out of your arse!

Helu has more touches than Torain over the past 4 games. Combined receptions and carries Helu has 66, while Torain has 28. That's more than double.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Double RB set anyone? Helu go out in a short route while Torain blocks? there, everyone wins because Torain is blocking and Helu gets the ball.

Dag I shoulda been a coach!!!

u da man.

Hey, I was in Langley Park today!

DarthMonk

CanesSkins26 wrote:Helu has more touches than Torain over the past 4 games. Combined receptions and carries Helu has 66, while Torain has 28. That's more than double.

What?!!? A fact?!?! LMAO The audacity...!

DarthMonk wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Double RB set anyone? Helu go out in a short route while Torain blocks? there, everyone wins because Torain is blocking and Helu gets the ball.

Dag I shoulda been a coach!!!

u da man.

Hey, I was in Langley Park today!

DarthMonk

You shoulda hit me up bro, we could have shared a medicine pack and rapped about Helu vs Torain vs Choice vs Portis.. oops.. sorry, not Portis. LOL

riggofan wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
oneman56 wrote:
it's not about "getting it". I get it, my point and OPINION is that I'd like to see Helu get more carries. Do you have the need to be argumentative at every opportunity?


U want to put in a player who has a known deficiency in order to increase productivity? Is that what you're telling me?


I think he is saying he wants to post his opinions on the Internet and not have anyone disagree with him.


not saying that at all, just don't quite get CLL's points lately in trying to make an argument about so many topics then trying to prove he's right and others are wrong. And CLL, to your point about getting Rex hurt if Helu were in the game more and us having more 3 and outs then why is Helu getting more carries and why are you applauding a fact that disputes your point?

Chris Luva Luva Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Roy Helu

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CanesSkins26 wrote:
Helu has more touches than Torain over the past 4 games. Combined receptions and carries Helu has 66, while Torain has 28. That's more than double.


What?!!? A fact?!?! LMAO The audacity...!

Did I miss something in reading today's WaPo article about Helu?

"The obvious thing is throughout the practice week, coach selects who he thinks is going to be the best person to win the game and start the game.”

While apparently that has been Torain the past couple of weeks, coaches haven’t been reluctant to turn to Helu as each game progresses. He’s the better blocker and better pass-catcher. He also may be the better runner"

Where's the deficiency? I say start him, let him develop a rhythm, and get the most out of him from the beginning.

When Shanny gives different reasons to the same question, he is clearly toying with the media. It was stated on this thread that Mike said that Helu needs to improve on blitz pick up. I heard him answer the question, why did Torain start against Miami with, "I wanted to take a look at Torain." Kyle asnwered the question after the Miami fans with words to the effect, fans are concerned about who starts. It makes no difference to us who starts. If you look at the number of plays, Helu is clearly getting more time than Torain. Kyle has implied that both Helu and Torain are missing holes when he defended the play of the O line.

One thing we can be sure of, when Mike finds a back that he believes is the total package (Terrell Davis), he sticks with him. Since he hasn't stuck with Torain or Helu as of yet, neither has the total package yet. Problem is Mike rarely finds a back that he believes has the total package.

This may be why Royster was called up. Hopefully he can be "Mike's guy".

StorminMormon86 wrote:This may be why Royster was called up. Hopefully he can be "Mike's guy".

I'm going to let u know right now. It WON'T happen. Mike isn't going to stick with one back. So don't get your hopes up too high, cus ur setting urself up for disappointment. Expect him to get a few touches here and there like everyone else.

StorminMormon86 wrote:This may be why Royster was called up. Hopefully he can be "Mike's guy".

I respect your opinion, but I offer my opinion why Royster will not end up being Mike's guy.

Supposedly Royster is very good at finding the holes in the "stretch running" plays (looked that way in preseason) and he will get a few touches vs Seattle to see. There is hope that he gets more out of his carries and this is possible if his vision is better than Helu's or Toran's.

Here's why he will not be "Mike's guy."

He doesn't have the speed of Helu. Shanny covets Helu's speed, so he will always use him as a change up to Royster.

Royster also showed in the preseason that he goes down very easy. Torain offers the rugged package for the tough yardage, so Royster would have to be replaced at the goal line.

For a back to be Mike's guy, he has to have the total package: run, block, catch and some speed. We'll find out if Royster can run. Doubt that he can block well yet (but he might be as good as the other two). He can catch. Speed? Just average and maybe not even that for a back.

Only Helu of the three has the chance at some point to be an every down back. Helu can catch. He can pick up tough yards. The last piece missing is the blitz pick up. Once he gets that down and with Hightower down, look to see Helu being an every down back around the time of the last three games.

Red_One43 wrote:Only Helu of the three has the chance at some point to be an every down back. Helu can catch. He can pick up tough yards. The last piece missing is the blitz pick up. Once he gets that down and with Hightower down, look to see Helu being an every down back around the time of the last three games.

I agree.

Blitz pick-up is about film study, want-to, and practicing good leverage. One can absolutely be excellent at it with his size (6' 0", 220 #) and lord knows he has the speed (4.4). His vision is also excellent.

The stretch play is about getting an extra blocker or a cut back. If the backside does not pursue aggressively the offense has an extra blocker and a great opportunity for a cut back. If he pursues aggressively enough there is no extra blocker and the runner has to press the correct gap (which sometimes means going outside), or, with some luck, find a cut back lane. Helu is very good at pressing the correct gap. He can also cut back with great suddenness or turn the corner. He has very good hands and is terrific in space. The two areas where he must improve are protecting the ball and protecting the QB.

BTW - all that stuff about the stretch play being "predicated" on tiring out a D is baloney. That can be an effect if you run it well all game but it is not what the play is "predicated" on. Any good running game will tire out a D - stretch running game or otherwise. I grant that the stretch play values different attributes in offensive linemen than a "power" running game does but to say it is "predicated" on tiring out a defense is "putting the cart before the horse."

I think the goal (for Shanny the GM/coach) is to bring Helu along while keeping him healthy so he can become the back of the next 6 years.

PS - I'm sure someone will find a "base I didn't cover" but I will stand by my BTW comments. Helu is my favorite back on this team.

DarthMonk

DarthMonk wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:Only Helu of the three has the chance at some point to be an every down back. Helu can catch. He can pick up tough yards. The last piece missing is the blitz pick up. Once he gets that down and with Hightower down, look to see Helu being an every down back around the time of the last three games.

I agree.

Blitz pick-up is about film study, want-to, and practicing good leverage. One can absolutely be excellent at it with his size (6' 0", 220 #) and lord knows he has the speed (4.4). His vision is also excellent.

The stretch play is about getting an extra blocker or a cut back. If the backside does not pursue aggressively the offense has an extra blocker and a great opportunity for a cut back. If he pursues aggressively enough there is no extra blocker and the runner has to press the correct gap (which sometimes means going outside), or, with some luck, find a cut back lane. Helu is very good at pressing the correct gap. He can also cut back with great suddenness or turn the corner. He has very good hands and is terrific in space. The two areas where he must improve are protecting the ball and protecting the QB.

BTW - all that stuff about the stretch play being "predicated" on tiring out a D is baloney. That can be an effect if you run it well all game but it is not what the play is "predicated" on. Any good running game will tire out a D - stretch running game or otherwise. I grant that the stretch play values different attributes in offensive linemen than a "power" running game does but to say it is "predicated" on tiring out a defense is "putting the cart before the horse."

I think the goal (for Shanny the GM/coach) is to bring Helu along while keeping him healthy so he can become the back of the next 6 years.

PS - I'm sure someone will find a "base I didn't cover" but I will stand by my BTW comments. Helu is my favorite back on this team.

DarthMonk

+1

I agree, Helu should be the feature back. He's their only impact performer.

http://thexlog.com/201111251228/xtra-po ... t-week-12/

Red_One43 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:Only Helu of the three has the chance at some point to be an every down back. Helu can catch. He can pick up tough yards. The last piece missing is the blitz pick up. Once he gets that down and with Hightower down, look to see Helu being an every down back around the time of the last three games.

I agree.

Blitz pick-up is about film study, want-to, and practicing good leverage. One can absolutely be excellent at it with his size (6' 0", 220 #) and lord knows he has the speed (4.4). His vision is also excellent.

The stretch play is about getting an extra blocker or a cut back. If the backside does not pursue aggressively the offense has an extra blocker and a great opportunity for a cut back. If he pursues aggressively enough there is no extra blocker and the runner has to press the correct gap (which sometimes means going outside), or, with some luck, find a cut back lane. Helu is very good at pressing the correct gap. He can also cut back with great suddenness or turn the corner. He has very good hands and is terrific in space. The two areas where he must improve are protecting the ball and protecting the QB.

BTW - all that stuff about the stretch play being "predicated" on tiring out a D is baloney. That can be an effect if you run it well all game but it is not what the play is "predicated" on. Any good running game will tire out a D - stretch running game or otherwise. I grant that the stretch play values different attributes in offensive linemen than a "power" running game does but to say it is "predicated" on tiring out a defense is "putting the cart before the horse."

I think the goal (for Shanny the GM/coach) is to bring Helu along while keeping him healthy so he can become the back of the next 6 years.

PS - I'm sure someone will find a "base I didn't cover" but I will stand by my BTW comments. Helu is my favorite back on this team.

DarthMonk

+1

+2. Helu has also stated that pass protection is his weakness, and that he intends to fix that. This young man has a reputation for hard work... knows the drill on skill development... I see no reason to believe that he won't master pass protection. This is probably the toughest thing for a running back to learn... defenses are very good at disguising their intent... but I expect that Helu will make himself the complete package... including the art of picking up blitzes...