The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

So what do you all think Shanahan is going to start against Dallas this upcoming Sunday? We have Grossman who in his last two games has put up a whopping 3 points offensively, and then we have Beck who in his last two games put up 11 points offensively. I hope he goes back to Beck, but I don't see that happening. I wanted to see Beck redeem himself against the Dolphins and I personally think it was too quick to pull the trigger on benching him. There is no evaluating Rex Grossman, nor is there any upside to evaluating our young WR's since Grossman will be busy throwing the ball to the other team. With Beck on the other hand, it makes more sense to ride the season out with him (it's over now anyway) to see if he could progress and become a viable backup next year. What are your thoughts on this QB "controversy"?

Grossman is starting for the rest of the year.

Don't think it matters, they are both ineffective.

StorminMormon86 wrote:So what do you all think Shanahan is going to start against Dallas this upcoming Sunday? We have Grossman who in his last two games has put up a whopping 3 points offensively, and then we have Beck who in his last two games put up 11 points offensively. I hope he goes back to Beck, but I don't see that happening. I wanted to see Beck redeem himself against the Dolphins and I personally think it was too quick to pull the trigger on benching him. There is no evaluating Rex Grossman, nor is there any upside to evaluating our young WR's since Grossman will be busy throwing the ball to the other team. With Beck on the other hand, it makes more sense to ride the season out with him (it's over now anyway) to see if he could progress and become a viable backup next year. What are your thoughts on this QB "controversy"?

I gotta disagree with you on the whole evaluating our young WR's with Beck over Grossman.. Beck is terrible and only looks to check down.. 14 catches for Helu is WAY too much.. While Grossman does throw picks he also throws it down field and lets routes develop which gives us an actual opportunity to evaluate receivers .. look at Hankerson .. 8 catches and over 100 yards.. would never and will never happen when Beck is playing

If you want to evaluate whether RBs can catch outta the backfield and if we have quality TE depth then go with Beck.. if you want a look at our receivers go with Grossman

I also dont understand the argument regarding letting Beck play to see if we have a quality backup in him.. we have a quality back up in Grossman.. he knows the offense and can play well in spots.. he isnt going to find another team offering him a starting gig so why not stay with an offense you know and accept your role as backup which I think he will..

Beck can hit the road

At this point who cares? The only question left for this season is..... "How high will the draft pick be?"

Kellen Clemons?

Grossman is going to start for a while

the switch was made because Beck did not get the ball where it needed to go or to the players that were open
he was especially bad against Buffalo in this regard

we are in a little deeper hole than we thought at QB
we're going to need a QB that can start next season and help the new guy get ready to play

First the woes in the Bills game was on the O-Line, now the Rex apologists turn this around and put all three losses on Beck. I don't understand why he didn't play against the Fins. I do agree that if he sucked in the first half the switch back to Wrecks would have made sense, but I don't see the evaluation that can be made after 3-1/4 games of football.

Well I think Shanahan confirmed Grossman is starting against the Cowboys this Sunday. I wonder who's going to throw more Cowboy TD's, Romo or Grossman?

I dint care who starts at QB. In this five game losing streak our defense had played one good game (49ers), they are averaging 3 forced points per game.

Our team is 3-1 in games the D forces more than three punts and 0-5 in games they force three points or less.

The Giants and Cards game they forced 6 points each The Rams game they forced 8. The lone loss were they played well was the 9ers game, 5 punts.

Last week they forced 1 stinking punt! Against the Fins. Sure they caused two turn overs, but one freaking punt! Really!!

The Egirls, Panties, and Bills were all three punt games, with know more than one point coming in the first half of either of those games.

Yes, I know our offense sucks and they are the main culprit, but with your offense struggling wouldn't it be nice to go three and out every once on a while.

It will be Wrecks, but I'm not sure it matters. Not to be pessimistic (though it will sound that way), but realistic, do we even have enough warm bodies to field a damn team?

At a certain point (within the context of this team, this year, not generally), we have little to no chance with this number of injuries. Certainly not in combination with our ineptitude. We had a better than decent chance against any team, assuming average health. I don't know the numbers off-hand, but Jesus C., do we even have 4 original openining day starters on the field on offense? As for the defense, I am less down on them then I probably should be, but if I'm fed up with watching the offense (and I only saw this most recent game out of the last 4 or 5), I KNOW THEY ARE, whether they admit it or not.

And now, we're getting to the point that our backups/potential future starters can't even get quality run because THEY'RE GETTING HURT TOO! It is harder to see the improvement in this team with this amount of crapola + injuries + a tired ass defense.

One last point: if I see Wrecks or Beck (they are the same, there's no point in deciding who's better, its like asking if I'd prefer a kick in the balls with your wingtips on or one with your timberlands) do anything more than start a few games next year to keep the seat warm/give a little more development time for the rookie QB we draft, Shanahan is going to owe me a new TV.

Looks like Rex is getting the start after comments made by Shanny today via twitter.

StorminMormon86 wrote:First the woes in the Bills game was on the O-Line, now the Rex apologists turn this around and put all three losses on Beck. I don't understand why he didn't play against the Fins.

I don't think there are many Rex "apologists" anywhere. Most people think he is horrible -- but the truth of the matter is that Beck is even worse.

And if you don't understand why Beck didn't start against the Phins, then you must have not been watching the previous games very closely. Beck missed so many downfield receivers it was almost comical. His field vision is crazy bad. And as far as blaming the OL, I am not sure that all of those sacks can be attributable to the OL. Beck was holding the ball wwwwaaaayyyyy to long. I believe there is a website that critics all 8 sacks and puts them on Beck (although I disagree with some of the analysis). Besides, QBs should be held accountable for their performance. It is very easy to push blame, but at the end of the day, the QB is the commander of that offense. Everything falls on him. 2 TDs in 3 and 1/2 games isn't going to blow away coaching staffs.

SkinsJock wrote:Grossman is going to start for a while

the switch was made because Beck did not get the ball where it needed to go or to the players that were open
he was especially bad against Buffalo in this regard

we are in a little deeper hole than we thought at QB
we're going to need a QB that can start next season and help the new guy get ready to play

... soooo, we'll give the ball to a quarterback who will reliably get the ball where it needs to be for the other team to take possession. A LITTLE DEEPER? My friend, you are among the kings of the understated...

The deal is, we know where Grossman's ceiling lies. We don't know where Beck's is... though, granted, it doesn't appear to be much higher than where he is right now...

its a bit like asking if you want cabbage or sprouts with your sunday dinner

Countertrey wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Grossman is going to start for a while

the switch was made because Beck did not get the ball where it needed to go or to the players that were open
he was especially bad against Buffalo in this regard

we are in a little deeper hole than we thought at QB
we're going to need a QB that can start next season and help the new guy get ready to play

... soooo, we'll give the ball to a quarterback who will reliably get the ball where it needs to be for the other team to take possession. A LITTLE DEEPER? My friend, you are among the kings of the understated...

The deal is, we know where Grossman's ceiling lies. We don't know where Beck's is... though, granted, it doesn't appear to be much higher than where he is right now...

what ceiling are we searching for exactly when it comes to Beck and or Grossman.. its clear that neither one is a capable starting QB so when it comes to who the better back up would be its clearly Grossman..

Beck has been terrible has no pocket presence and is incapable of allowing a route to develop let alone throw it down field.. Yes Grossman is going to throw picks but he is also going to move the offense.. in the backup roll Grossman is the guy IMO.. let Beck throw check downs somewhere else

And, throw picks. And, throw picks. And, obtw, throw picks.

And, handle the ball like its a dirty diaper, when the pocket collapses...

Did I mention throw picks?

Frankly, I'd prefer that we take a quarterback off someone's practice squad, and say "make it happen".

Far more creative than anything that Kyle has demonstrated... "Oh, darn... it's the first quarter, and they scored... let's abandon the run." Crap... Crap... and, Crap.

Both Mike and Kyle Shanahan are guilty atrocious decision making. If I have to see Torrain make another failed attempt at a sweep, my eyes might explode leaving me pleasantly blinded, so I don't have to witness any further bad play calling. Just that fact that Torrain was the sole back for so long in that game was amazing. And, just like the prior week, he amassed about 2 yards per carry. Helu on the other hand is usually refreshing to watch, as he is typically in the 4 to 6 yards per carry. Additionally , the decision to take Beck out was incredibly short sighted. It was very evident that he was improving week over week. Not just improving , but largely eliminating the previous week's errors. Miami WAS the week to see if he could improve his down field vision. Rex doesn't exhibit regular improvement, so it's safe to assume he's reached his ceiling. It was a disservice to Beck and the team as a whole to have not given him that Miami game. I'm not a huge Beck fan, but it was interesting to see him making adjustments in a systematic way. There are those that will say , "but he has never won a game". The reality of that is that when he was with Miami in 07, he was one of three QB's that played that year. Beck started somewhere in the middle of the season and only played 4 games. Nobody was successful that year on that horrible team, as was evident in their 1 and 15 record. To be fair that is NOT a legitimate evaluation of a rookie QB. The current Redskins OL , like the fins in 07, is nearly the worst in the league, not to mention the rest of the offense with all the injuries and lack of depth. People say that none of that should matter, but that is lazy logic.
I've seen Brady, Rivers, and many others look like complete crap when the OL is getting out played. Alternatively, there are plenty examples of mediocre QB's who look pretty damn good when sitting behind a good, consistant OL, such as the 49's with Alex Smith. There are those that will say, "Grossman won 3 games". Yeah, he won against three of the easier teams on the schedule and played horribly when Philly challenged him. Beck played against three of the more difficult teams on the schedule thus far, and did so with an injury riddled OL, no hightower, no moss. He must rank among the unluckiest rookie QB's ever, judging by the situations he's started in.

Beck was sacked ten times against Buffalo. The pressure was immense. Yes 3-5 of those sacks could have been avoided if he was dumping the ball off or throwing it away, but he's going to make those mistakes considering it was only his sixth game. Of course he's going to become Captain Checkdown in the game following TEN SACKS. I too wish he was given a chance to redeem himself in the Fins game. I think he played good in the Philadelphia game and the Carolina game, and I think if he had a better supporting cast (I.E. run game) his performance against the 49ers would have been graded higher.

We do not know the "ceiling" on Beck yet. There's no possible way to judge his performance. Honestly, who do we have on offense that's a legitimate threat other than Fred Davis? We have NO deep threat, Gaffney can cry all he wants about being open. Troy Aikman (notorious for being anti-Redskins for obvious reasons) defended Beck in the Buffalo game saying that no QB in the league would have been able to do anything with that amount of pressure. And there's actually people who think Wrecks would have done better?

StorminMormon86 wrote:Beck was sacked ten times against Buffalo. The pressure was immense. Yes 3-5 of those sacks could have been avoided if he was dumping the ball off or throwing it away, but he's going to make those mistakes considering it was only his sixth game. Of course he's going to become Captain Checkdown in the game following TEN SACKS. I too wish he was given a chance to redeem himself in the Fins game. I think he played good in the Philadelphia game and the Carolina game, and I think if he had a better supporting cast (I.E. run game) his performance against the 49ers would have been graded higher.

We do not know the "ceiling" on Beck yet. There's no possible way to judge his performance. Honestly, who do we have on offense that's a legitimate threat other than Fred Davis? We have NO deep threat, Gaffney can cry all he wants about being open. Troy Aikman (notorious for being anti-Redskins for obvious reasons) defended Beck in the Buffalo game saying that no QB in the league would have been able to do anything with that amount of pressure. And there's actually people who think Wrecks would have done better?

Agree on all points. It's simply astonishing that Shanahan bowed to locker room and fan pressure to bench Beck in light of marked improvement he was making. Judging by remarks of Chris ey and Lavaar Arrington, I sometimes think that players are ironically incredulous about certain aspects of the state of the team. Between L.A. believing that a bad OL and lack of receivers "shouldnt matter" when evaluating a quarterback, and ey stating that there is currently enough talent on the team to compete in the playoffs, I don't take too much stock in anything they say. They are either too close to the situation to be objective; place an inordinate amount of blame on coaching because they are biased players; or are being intentiionally contrary for the sake of ratings. At any rate, the Beck experiment will remain unfinished for reasons that defy common sense.

I get the feeling that Beck will be back in. It's only a matter of time before Rex shines in his true colors. I'll just have to sit back and enjoy the ride.

I think people are too hard on Beck for how he played running for his life. But the reality is given our O-line situation Grossman does handle it better even though he sucks. It will and should be Grossman. But if we have an O-line next year, I'd rather go with Beck if my only other choice is still Grossman.

He hasn't handled anything better, IMHO. In the last three games that Grossman has played in he's had 1 TD and 8 INTS. Beck's last three games were 4 TD (2 rushing) and 4 INTS. Shanahan needs to stop caving into fan pressure and (if it's true) pressure from the locker room. You stick with a guy who is still unknown for the rest of the season (since it's over with anyway) who has outplayed the PROVEN turnover machine since all of the key injuries have taken place.