The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Well, the verdict is nearly in. It's far from official, and even less of a surprise to anyone who has even casually followed the Redskins this season:

We're not a good football team.

In fact, we're pretty bad.

And we're getting worse.

This pessimistic outlook goes completely against my grain, but the facts are nearly indisputable. After a 3-1 first quarter that gave rise to all kinds of now-absurd speculation, the B&G have, in order, lost to


1) A reeling Eagles squad at home 20-13. The 1-4 "Dream Team" outgained us by nearly 140 yards and held the ball almost twice as long as they righted the ship on their way out of the NFCE cellar.

2) The toddling Panthers (!?!) 33-20. Though we were only outgained by 50 yards this time, and held the ball only 11 minutes less, once again a team with only one win, led by a rookie QB, beat us.

3) A solid but unspectacular Bills team 23-0. Yup. Blanked. Shut-out. Goose-egged. For the first time ever in Mike Shanahan's long and storied career.

4) A rising, overachieving 49'ers unit led by their highly caffeinated, super-testosterone-charged head coach, 19-11. Again at home. And it wasn't even as close as the final score indicated.

This 4 game tailspin should and probably will end soon; two of our next three games are eminently winnable, whether we do so or not. Starting in Week 13 though, we face an extremely tough 3 game stretch against, in order, the Jets, the Patriots and the Giants. In the last half of the season we play only 4 games in which we should be favored and should win if we play the way we have been. Of those four we figure to lose at least one - that's just how it is in today's ultra-parity NFL. Discounting any big upsets in the other matchups, that means we may very well finish these last 8 games with a 3-5 record. Again. Meaning another 6-10 season. Again.

Yay.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought we were re-building here? Onward and upward, that whole bit. I might not know the definition of progress word for word, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't include back to back 6-10 seasons. I know it hasn't happened yet, but it is highly probable that it will. It might even be 5-11 or worse, who knows? In fairness I realize it could also be much better than I anticipate, but I'd lay odds it won't. When the dust settles I see us exactly where we were one year ago. And that, as I said earlier, is not progress. It's being stuck in the same old same old.

So who's to blame for all this? If we're not really building or re-building anything, where does the buck stop? With such a wide range of dysfunction and disarray, it's not an easy task assigning blame in this situation. After all, there are so many targets to choose from; where does one begin? Let's start here...

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Moan, bitch, whine. Got it.

Without recognizing the D has actually improved in their second year in an entirely new scheme and our O has like three opening day starters, that's all it is.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Moan, bitch, whine. Got it.

Without recognizing the D has actually improved in their second year in an entirely new scheme and our O has like three opening day starters, that's all it is.

When is the dead line on when we are allowed to bitch?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Moan, bitch, whine. Got it.

Without recognizing the D has actually improved in their second year in an entirely new scheme and our O has like three opening day starters, that's all it is.

True. Two good points. Our D HAS improved. I think I said as much in this installment - perhaps it's in Part 2. But that unit is not the whole team, Kaz. And injuries affect every NFL team. The good ones find a way to work around them. That is not a valid excuse.

My point (gripe, moan, whine, if you will) is simply that I'm starting to doubt whether I'm seeing any substantial progress or just watching another smoke and mirrors show. That's all.

I didn't say I was right - just that I was opinionated.

Believe me, and I think you already know this, I want the rebuild to be plowing along full steam ahead every bit as much as you do. I can't be certain it is though; not after all the other aborted attempts I've seen over the last 19 years.

The bottom line is you can't win cinsistently in this league with nothing but below league average QBs on the roster, and absolutely no playmakers on offense. The defense has improved tremendously this season. Next year its the offense's turn. By the end of next season hopefully you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

Kilmer72 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Moan, bitch, whine. Got it.

Without recognizing the D has actually improved in their second year in an entirely new scheme and our O has like three opening day starters, that's all it is.

When is the dead line on when we are allowed to bitch?

The answer is some number greater then 19 years since it's been that long and we aren't there yet. When I get there I'll let you know. LPJ and I are having a contest who can go the longest without ever flinching. At this point, it appears the winner will be whoever lives longer...

PAPDOG67 wrote:The bottom line is you can't win cinsistently in this league with nothing but below league average QBs on the roster, and absolutely no playmakers on offense. The defense has improved tremendously this season. Next year its the offense's turn. By the end of next season hopefully you will see the light at the end of the tunnel.

And you can't turn around a team when you turn on every coach in only their second year as if they created the problem rather then that they are here to fix it.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Moan, bitch, whine. Got it.

Without recognizing the D has actually improved in their second year in an entirely new scheme and our O has like three opening day starters, that's all it is.

When is the dead line on when we are allowed to bitch?

The answer is some number greater then 19 years since it's been that long and we aren't there yet. When I get there I'll let you know. LPJ and I are having a contest who can go the longest without ever flinching. At this point, it appears the winner will be whoever lives longer...

LMAO!!! Good answer I guess.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Moan, bitch, whine. Got it.

Without recognizing the D has actually improved in their second year in an entirely new scheme and our O has like three opening day starters, that's all it is.

When is the dead line on when we are allowed to bitch?

The answer is some number greater then 19 years since it's been that long and we aren't there yet. When I get there I'll let you know. LPJ and I are having a contest who can go the longest without ever flinching. At this point, it appears the winner will be whoever lives longer...

That didn't sound right...

My view on this team is that we're a team in the making. You have to build your team from the ground up. You have to have guys on your team that want to be here to win (Not just get paid). You have to build your team through the draft (see 2011's selections). You have to have a mix of young and older players (See how our team got greatly younger in one year). You have to have players on your team that fit your system and can implement it (see draft picks and FA selection). And last but not least, you have to have players working in that system for a given period of time so that they grow together and can earn each other's trust to execute the plays that are being called. The answer to this is time.

Look, I'm no different than anyone else here. I would love to have a winner. I would love to be back in the glory days when I was a kid of the 80's and we were smoking teams left and right. We were a team to be feared but everything that's happened to this franchise over the years is not going to be fixed overnight. Of course you'll find examples of that happening but more times than most, it doesn't work that way. It takes 3-5 years to build a team from the ground up. You have to change the culture of the team and that doesn't happen in a 1/2 time speech. You have to have a little bit of luck as well. We have a mountain to climb. We're part of the way there but just because we're not moving as fast as some would like doesn't mean we won't get to the mountain top. I just hope some of you are still here. I know you will be but for some of you for being "DONE" I'll see you next week.

It just sucks to lose all the time. 2008-2011 has stunk.


No wonder everyone is in such a grumpy mode around here.

BOO HOO ,Whine, Bitch, Moan.

We will still win eight straight the division AND the super bowl this year... Or at least beat philthy and fallas. Either way = winning!

D is improving to soon be elite. Next years draft is QB and O-line CB and wr. We WILL be some bad arse month fo s in no time. Only... It takes time.
So quit cho bitchn I'm wit Kaz and LPJ

SkinsJock wrote:Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

I know we are improving Skinsjock. You have to admit though that having a worse record than Zorn sucks at this point. I see we are getting younger and we have the injuries yada yada..... I see other teams coming from no where though. Makes me a bit frustrated is all. I am still not sold on this regime. I have my fingers crossed though and they deserve at least 4 years because I think it would actually take way longer like 7. I got laughed at pretty much last year for saying so but I have to admit the D took less time than I thought even though it still needs a few pieces.

We ALL want things to be better - some JUST look at wins and losses and others are looking for consistency
other franchises that went from bad to good had a plan and NFL guys running things
we have had ZERO NFL management OR a plan for too many years


this Redkins franchise is much better than anything Zorn had - Zorn's 6-2 start was BS and the next 8 games showed it
An offensive line that can stand up to 16 weeks of playing well in the NFL takes time

we HAVE come a long way since the end of 2009


seeing a decent, consistently competitive product on the field will not take long with Mike & Bruce
I could care less what the W-L record is - I just want to see continued progress - IT IS THERE

there are many things that need to be better, including the play calling and coaching - IT takes time

wait until this time next year

SkinsJock wrote:Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

That's hilarious! This team won't win another game this season...

grampi wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

That's hilarious! This team won't win another game this season...

And you'll love every minute of it. Enjoy losing while it lasts, grampi. It's about to start changing.

[quote="frankcal20"]My view on this team is that we're a team in the making. quote]

I'm so sick of hearing that. This team has been "a team in the making" for the last 20 years. How long does it take to build a winning team? 100 years?

grampi wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

That's hilarious! This team won't win another game this season...

fans like you are somewhat short sighted - you don't 'see' the progress because it's not 'there' in your myopic view

must be because fans like you are biased towards the negative

there's really some things to look forward to ..... if you try a little


I'll take whatever the win/loss record is as long as it means we are setting this franchise up to have a consistently competitive product

That is what is happening here

just like the players that don't want to make the commitment to practice & play hard
some fans should just get out of the way

The reason why this team has sucked for the past 10+ years is based on a lack of consistency. We haven't had the same coach/staff for more than 2 years (other than Gibbs II era), what do you expect? How can players even get into any sort of rhythm only to have it yanked away from them by having to learn a completely different "system"? I say give Shanahan until his contract is up and then we can judge whether or not he has failed at this "rebuilding".

SkinsJock wrote:

grampi wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

That's hilarious! This team won't win another game this season...

fans like you are somewhat short sighted - you don't 'see' the progress because it's not 'there' in your myopic view

must be because fans like you are biased towards the negative

there's really some things to look forward to ..... if you try a little


I'll take whatever the win/loss record is as long as it means we are setting this franchise up to have a consistently competitive product

That is what is happening here

just like the players that don't want to make the commitment to practice & play hard
some fans should just get out of the way

I will ask once again, how long does/should this "setting up" process take? The team has sucked for 20 years. Will it take another 20? 40? This team has had more than enough time to turn things around and you can't blame us fans for being damn sick and tired of the losing...

SkinsJock wrote:

grampi wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Bitch and moan whenever and as much as you like

fact is this franchise is improving

have at it

That's hilarious! This team won't win another game this season...

fans like you are somewhat short sighted - you don't 'see' the progress because it's not 'there' in your myopic view

must be because fans like you are biased towards the negative

there's really some things to look forward to ..... if you try a little


I'll take whatever the win/loss record is as long as it means we are setting this franchise up to have a consistently competitive product

That is what is happening here

just like the players that don't want to make the commitment to practice & play hard
some fans should just get out of the way

What are you using for evidence that we are setting up the franchise as competitive? Just asking.

I'll answer in the form of a question back at you

Do you notice any difference in the way the players are playing and behaving as compared to before Mike got here?

Accountability and desire are now evident here - there was none 2 years ago

I'll grant that there is still work to be done and mistakes have been made
I'll also say that the DC and the OC need to pick up their 'game' as well

this group just needs a little more time and to add some more players to the mix

by this time next season we'll be thinking playoffs

Who's not thinking playoffs this year? Weird

SkinsJock wrote:by this time next season we'll be thinking playoffs

I wish I had a dollar for every time I heard somebody say that. I'll believe it when I see it...wins are the only thing that matters...everything else is garbage...