The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Irn-Bru wrote:The more I see of this team, the more I'm convinced that our problems begin and end on offense. At least when it comes to getting to the next level.

Here's hoping for a QB in the draft. We might be only 1-2 pieces away from having a decent offensive line.

I'm now leaning against bringing Banks back . . . even for next week. You could have paid me to stand back there and muff a couple of punts, and at least I would have let balls flying toward the endzone give us a touchback.

The Hogster wrote:This team isn't even competitive in these last few games. At least they'd rip our hearts out in the 4th quarter. Now, I'm watching Tim Tebow by the half.

Kilmer72 wrote:Irn!!!! You can't leave Banks out. Yeah, he will muff a return, always has but, who can do what he can when he gets a block or two?

Personally I think we need 4 more O linemen. What we have for starters might be good depths. I still think that we need someone better than Trent for LT. He would be dominating at right Tackle. Hell, I don't know, just going by what an inexperienced arm chair coach would do.

ATX_Skins wrote:

The Hogster wrote:This team isn't even competitive in these last few games. At least they'd rip our hearts out in the 4th quarter. Now, I'm watching Tim Tebow by the half.

At this point, I would love to have Tim Tebow on the team.

PAPDOG67 wrote:I watched most of the USC game Friday night, and man Matt Barkley would sure look good under center for us. He can make all the throws. I think if you draft a QB 1st round and go with the best C available in the 2nd and best G in the 3rd we'll be much improved. The interior of our o-line is terrible, although they did play a serviceable game yesterday.

PAPDOG67 wrote:I watched most of the USC game Friday night, and man Matt Barkley would sure look good under center for us. He can make all the throws. I think if you draft a QB 1st round and go with the best C available in the 2nd and best G in the 3rd we'll be much improved. The interior of our o-line is terrible, although they did play a serviceable game yesterday.

frankcal20 wrote:Here's the thing with Banks. Moving the kickoff back and the deletion of the wedge has killed his game. Really more than ever, he's not worth a roster spot and I hate saying that for a fellow North Carolinian. But the truth is in the puddin.

QB has to be in our future that's very clear. We've got to figure out the offensive line. If there's a STUD WR in the 1st round, you take him but if there's a franchise QB, you take him. The defense is fine but needs some depth but that it's going to be all about building the offense next draft and offseason. Go Skins!!!

RayNAustin wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:Here's the thing with Banks. Moving the kickoff back and the deletion of the wedge has killed his game. Really more than ever, he's not worth a roster spot and I hate saying that for a fellow North Carolinian. But the truth is in the puddin.

QB has to be in our future that's very clear. We've got to figure out the offensive line. If there's a STUD WR in the 1st round, you take him but if there's a franchise QB, you take him. The defense is fine but needs some depth but that it's going to be all about building the offense next draft and offseason. Go Skins!!!

Now, I'm of the exact opposite opinion .... I believe it is one of the many examples of this coaching staff failing to exploit the talents of their players.

I agree yesterday at warmups he caught every pass thrown to him and he is very fast. I wish we had a staff competent enough to use him where he would succeed. Well atleast I can still play Madden and use him. Even last year he was used in the wildcat a little bit. He can jump too, his vertical must be crazy.

Banks is a shifty little speed demon, and could be used on a team which thoroughly lacks dynamism and big play potential. Bubble screens getting him the ball with blockers in front, and other plays designed to isolate him in space against LBs ... this would give defenses fits to game plan around. A guy like that also serves as a great decoy to attract safety attention on fly routs opening up more underneath stuff.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:QB - I'm glad they're letting Beck continue to play. This is about the future and preparing for year 3 and 4 of his tenure. This is about seeing what we have and don't have in him. Anyone who truly understands and loves football knows that this team isn't having issues just because of Beck.

The best case scenario is to draft a young QB and groom him. We can't place him on the 3 year Aaron Rodgers plan. BUT!! What I believe Mike is doing, he's getting Beck primed for a start next year. He's getting the younger WR's involved, there will be further retooling to the offense. There will be a strong FA and draft push to get them caught up to the defense. There WILL be a new QB here next year via the draft and he will sit for at least half of his rookie year, if not, the whole year. A year to get acclimated to the NFL, the offense and plenty of camps, practices, and OTA's.


The future excites me. But sadly, too many of U are very narrow minded in ur thinking.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:QB - I'm glad they're letting Beck continue to play. This is about the future and preparing for year 3 and 4 of his tenure. This is about seeing what we have and don't have in him. Anyone who truly understands and loves football knows that this team isn't having issues just because of Beck.

The best case scenario is to draft a young QB and groom him. We can't place him on the 3 year Aaron Rodgers plan. BUT!! What I believe Mike is doing, he's getting Beck primed for a start next year. He's getting the younger WR's involved, there will be further retooling to the offense. There will be a strong FA and draft push to get them caught up to the defense. There WILL be a new QB here next year via the draft and he will sit for at least half of his rookie year, if not, the whole year. A year to get acclimated to the NFL, the offense and plenty of camps, practices, and OTA's.

I do understand this mindset to a point, however it's hard when you look at other QB's who step in and look at the very least decent. Beck looked good in Preseason and he looked capable going in against Philly. But ever since he has become the starter it looks like he regresses ever week. I am not a Head Coach of a NFL team but I swear it looks like he can't handle it and I think if we had a top rated offensive line I still think Beck would be pathetic. I mean as I am sure we all can agree some QB's just have "it" Rothlesburger, Flacco, Rogers are examples. Beck looks scared, he looks unsure and that to me is why he hasn't been able to get a W. Yesterday his refusal to throw downfield is another thing that concerns me. Hell when #22 was here he played 15 yards off the reciever and was always burned on double moves. You mean Gaffney or some other reciever couldn't do that? We go from not running any screens against the Bills to only running screens against the 49ers! Where are the slants, buttonhooks, curls? We used the wildcat with Banks last year but haven't done that at all this year, why? Sorry Beck and Kyle both are stopping the progression of this team, rookies and young players can make plays if given the chance you can't make plays with side armed throws and 5 yard passes!


The future excites me. But sadly, too many of U are very narrow minded in ur thinking.

I wholeheartedly agree with this. People fail to realize that this offense has had 2 weeks now in preparation/playing together in full practices. The receivers are mostly green, as is Beck. Beck is slowly becoming the scapegoat of this offense and it simply isn't fair to put all the blame on his shoulders. Should he be making quicker decisions? Yes. Should he take a shot here or there down field? Yes. Is this only his SEVENTH GAME that he's ever played in? He doesn't exactly have the best supporting cast helping him out on offense. I too am excited about the future.

RayNAustin wrote:Well, that reputation is crashing to the ground, and some people magically see a silver lining .... I can't find it.

RayNAustin wrote:Nice to have all that "positive attitude stuff" when it is warranted ... but I have to inject some reality here, because it's missing.

We've seen improvement on the defense this year even though a lot of it is masked by the fact that the offense has regressed, putting even more pressure on the defensive side. Missing OJ, and having Doughty in there has contributed to some of the failures to stop big plays .... but overall, the D is legit, and one you could win with.

Offensively ... this team has taken backward steps, from being infuriatingly inconsistent last year, to downright embarrassingly non-competitive this year, and the major gaping hole plaguing this team is what it has been for years now .... poor QB play. From 5 years wasted making excuses for Jason Campbell (always on the verge of his breakout year) to Mike Shanahan staking his "reputation" on John Beck this year, we're no closer to a solution than the day they announced hiring Mikey and the boy wonder from Houston. They orchestrated the McNabb debacle, losing picks in the process, and demonstrating their incompetent decision making, only to solidify that by laying a huge egg regarding Beck.

Remember, according to Shanny we didn't need to draft a QB or sign a free agent .... we had Beck who had Mike's full confidence .... until Grossman out performed him in preseason and won the starting job. Then, at 3-2, after a bad game, they bench Grossman and we watch what offense we had, leave town entirely. Two miscalculations (actually three if you count Grossman) in two years? I'm just overflowing with confidence that the next QB move is going to be THE ONE ...

For those who would dismiss the John Elway factor for explaining Shanahan's success in Denver, he also had Plumber and Cutler ... both of which are better than anything we've seen in Washington for years, with not much tangible success. So, take Elway out of the picture, and Shanahan is just another guy who had limited success with a storied franchise, and not much better than marginal. (Look at the Colts this year without Manning ... if you need to see what a great QB can do in spite of what is around him, either players or coaches.)

Now, couple that with Mike's son being in charge of this embarrassing offense .. a particularly sensitive and difficult matter to expect unbiased evaluation from the head man as one might expect if the OC was not his bloody offspring ... I see few reasons to anticipate a major turn around coming from the expertise of Frick & Frack, two individuals whose lofty opinions of themselves exceed their accomplishments. The more likely scenario is dogged determination and stubbornness that will go down with the ship, all the while finding something other than their own mistakes and shortcomings to blame.

Contrast what is occurring with the Redskins, versus what Harbaugh has managed with SF .... they too were 6-10 last year, and have already exceeded their win total in just half a season. At 7-1, and playing very sound football with a QB that the organization was about to give up on ... demonstrates what GOOD coaching can produce in a short time frame.

Some thought Harbaugh would struggle this year with Alex Smith ... who has failed to live up to expectations ... but apparently he was right with his assessments of the potential, and managed to get him up to speed and operating a new offense even with a shortened off season.

And what do we wind up with? We wind up with the same thing we always wind up with ... another set of excuses, and hope that next year will be better.

Mike staked his reputation on Beck .... easy to do if no one holds him to it. Well, that reputation is crashing to the ground, and some people magically see a silver lining .... I can't find it.

frankcal20 wrote:

PAPDOG67 wrote:I watched most of the USC game Friday night, and man Matt Barkley would sure look good under center for us. He can make all the throws. I think if you draft a QB 1st round and go with the best C available in the 2nd and best G in the 3rd we'll be much improved. The interior of our o-line is terrible, although they did play a serviceable game yesterday.

We don't need a Center right now. We need a RT, RG, QB, Corner and then focus on some depth along the line. Didn't get a chance to review but would like to see how Hurt did yesterday in his first start.

Russ Penman wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Nice to have all that "positive attitude stuff" when it is warranted ... but I have to inject some reality here, because it's missing.

We've seen improvement on the defense this year even though a lot of it is masked by the fact that the offense has regressed, putting even more pressure on the defensive side. Missing OJ, and having Doughty in there has contributed to some of the failures to stop big plays .... but overall, the D is legit, and one you could win with.

Offensively ... this team has taken backward steps, from being infuriatingly inconsistent last year, to downright embarrassingly non-competitive this year, and the major gaping hole plaguing this team is what it has been for years now .... poor QB play. From 5 years wasted making excuses for Jason Campbell (always on the verge of his breakout year) to Mike Shanahan staking his "reputation" on John Beck this year, we're no closer to a solution than the day they announced hiring Mikey and the boy wonder from Houston. They orchestrated the McNabb debacle, losing picks in the process, and demonstrating their incompetent decision making, only to solidify that by laying a huge egg regarding Beck.

Remember, according to Shanny we didn't need to draft a QB or sign a free agent .... we had Beck who had Mike's full confidence .... until Grossman out performed him in preseason and won the starting job. Then, at 3-2, after a bad game, they bench Grossman and we watch what offense we had, leave town entirely. Two miscalculations (actually three if you count Grossman) in two years? I'm just overflowing with confidence that the next QB move is going to be THE ONE ...

For those who would dismiss the John Elway factor for explaining Shanahan's success in Denver, he also had Plumber and Cutler ... both of which are better than anything we've seen in Washington for years, with not much tangible success. So, take Elway out of the picture, and Shanahan is just another guy who had limited success with a storied franchise, and not much better than marginal. (Look at the Colts this year without Manning ... if you need to see what a great QB can do in spite of what is around him, either players or coaches.)

Now, couple that with Mike's son being in charge of this embarrassing offense .. a particularly sensitive and difficult matter to expect unbiased evaluation from the head man as one might expect if the OC was not his bloody offspring ... I see few reasons to anticipate a major turn around coming from the expertise of Frick & Frack, two individuals whose lofty opinions of themselves exceed their accomplishments. The more likely scenario is dogged determination and stubbornness that will go down with the ship, all the while finding something other than their own mistakes and shortcomings to blame.

Contrast what is occurring with the Redskins, versus what Harbaugh has managed with SF .... they too were 6-10 last year, and have already exceeded their win total in just half a season. At 7-1, and playing very sound football with a QB that the organization was about to give up on ... demonstrates what GOOD coaching can produce in a short time frame.

Some thought Harbaugh would struggle this year with Alex Smith ... who has failed to live up to expectations ... but apparently he was right with his assessments of the potential, and managed to get him up to speed and operating a new offense even with a shortened off season.

And what do we wind up with? We wind up with the same thing we always wind up with ... another set of excuses, and hope that next year will be better.

Mike staked his reputation on Beck .... easy to do if no one holds him to it. Well, that reputation is crashing to the ground, and some people magically see a silver lining .... I can't find it.

Sir you are 100% spot on, a excellent post and exactly the 100% truth. Personally I never liked Shanahan and always thought he was more or less a one hit wonder thanks to a hall of fame QB. Allthough he had decent offenses his knock was defenses on his teams sucked. Now I think the reason or the BULK of his offense being able to score is directly related to Gary Kubiak. Mike Shanahan is the prime example of someone that is more lucky than good, because now we can see that he was over hyped and I for one with him and Kyle calling shots I have no faith that the correct franchise QB will be gotten or picked with these numbskulls picking players and developing the roster.

PAPDOG67 wrote:

Russ Penman wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Nice to have all that "positive attitude stuff" when it is warranted ... but I have to inject some reality here, because it's missing.

We've seen improvement on the defense this year even though a lot of it is masked by the fact that the offense has regressed, putting even more pressure on the defensive side. Missing OJ, and having Doughty in there has contributed to some of the failures to stop big plays .... but overall, the D is legit, and one you could win with.

Offensively ... this team has taken backward steps, from being infuriatingly inconsistent last year, to downright embarrassingly non-competitive this year, and the major gaping hole plaguing this team is what it has been for years now .... poor QB play. From 5 years wasted making excuses for Jason Campbell (always on the verge of his breakout year) to Mike Shanahan staking his "reputation" on John Beck this year, we're no closer to a solution than the day they announced hiring Mikey and the boy wonder from Houston. They orchestrated the McNabb debacle, losing picks in the process, and demonstrating their incompetent decision making, only to solidify that by laying a huge egg regarding Beck.

Remember, according to Shanny we didn't need to draft a QB or sign a free agent .... we had Beck who had Mike's full confidence .... until Grossman out performed him in preseason and won the starting job. Then, at 3-2, after a bad game, they bench Grossman and we watch what offense we had, leave town entirely. Two miscalculations (actually three if you count Grossman) in two years? I'm just overflowing with confidence that the next QB move is going to be THE ONE ...

For those who would dismiss the John Elway factor for explaining Shanahan's success in Denver, he also had Plumber and Cutler ... both of which are better than anything we've seen in Washington for years, with not much tangible success. So, take Elway out of the picture, and Shanahan is just another guy who had limited success with a storied franchise, and not much better than marginal. (Look at the Colts this year without Manning ... if you need to see what a great QB can do in spite of what is around him, either players or coaches.)

Now, couple that with Mike's son being in charge of this embarrassing offense .. a particularly sensitive and difficult matter to expect unbiased evaluation from the head man as one might expect if the OC was not his bloody offspring ... I see few reasons to anticipate a major turn around coming from the expertise of Frick & Frack, two individuals whose lofty opinions of themselves exceed their accomplishments. The more likely scenario is dogged determination and stubbornness that will go down with the ship, all the while finding something other than their own mistakes and shortcomings to blame.

Contrast what is occurring with the Redskins, versus what Harbaugh has managed with SF .... they too were 6-10 last year, and have already exceeded their win total in just half a season. At 7-1, and playing very sound football with a QB that the organization was about to give up on ... demonstrates what GOOD coaching can produce in a short time frame.

Some thought Harbaugh would struggle this year with Alex Smith ... who has failed to live up to expectations ... but apparently he was right with his assessments of the potential, and managed to get him up to speed and operating a new offense even with a shortened off season.

And what do we wind up with? We wind up with the same thing we always wind up with ... another set of excuses, and hope that next year will be better.

Mike staked his reputation on Beck .... easy to do if no one holds him to it. Well, that reputation is crashing to the ground, and some people magically see a silver lining .... I can't find it.

Sir you are 100% spot on, a excellent post and exactly the 100% truth. Personally I never liked Shanahan and always thought he was more or less a one hit wonder thanks to a hall of fame QB. Allthough he had decent offenses his knock was defenses on his teams sucked. Now I think the reason or the BULK of his offense being able to score is directly related to Gary Kubiak. Mike Shanahan is the prime example of someone that is more lucky than good, because now we can see that he was over hyped and I for one with him and Kyle calling shots I have no faith that the correct franchise QB will be gotten or picked with these numbskulls picking players and developing the roster.

I have no problem with you or anyone else not believing in Shanahan. You make some decent point. My question to you and everyone else who wants him out already is who do we replace him with and why?