The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

First let me start off by addressing most of the haters out there. We cannot continue to do what we have done for the last 20 years. Which is crucify every single head coach and QB after 1 or 2 seasons of not taking us to the playoffs. Our problem is the lack of consistency for the players, always has been. This isn't a team that needs to be repaired, this is a team that needs to be build from the ground up, which takes years of drafting, free agency, and play under the same coach.

That being said, here is what NEEDS to happen for the skins to be great again.

Mike Shanahan needs 5 years as a coach to really be judged on being a success or failure. No head coach change for another 3 seasons after this year.

We need to address a few things in the draft this year.
#1 is QB, only if its the right one, one that we have our eye on to fit our team, if the QB we want gets taken, don't just settle for someone else.
#2 is Offensive line, we need talent, and depth.
#3 is defensive depth, so when players go down we have young players to step in

In free agency, #1 objective is to bring in a great WR, someone in their late 20's that has a few years experience and success under his belt.

What will make our team a long term success, is to build each position around atleast 1 person that is a playmaker, and shows lots of talent, and surround him with young guys in the same position that can learn and have the opportunity to grow. Start a talent pool, then build around it with young talented players.

If we draft a QB, he CANNOT start, how many QB's have we ruined that way? Too many, thats the answer. Don't put a new QB in until we have the talent around him to make him successful, a good WR core, we have a solid RB team that I would keep, give him a good O-Line, and 1 year in the system as the #2 and start him the 2nd year.

Defensively we are sound, doesn't look like it all the time, but we are. We need a little bit of depth, thats it. Half of our defense this is their 2nd year in this new scheme, and the other 1/2 this is their first year. These guys need time to gel, simple as that. Our good players with experience, and good play calls, can be a top 10 if not top 5 defense in the league.

As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

So, to sum it up, give Shanahan 3 more years, let him build this team, if he's not the right guy after that, we have a good core for a new coach to come in and do something with. Bring in solid playmakers through freeagency, especially WR, and bring in some young talent to build the future of our roster. The answer is NOT to crucify our coaching staff and QB and run them out of town every couple years, LET THEM BUILD!!

Prowl33 wrote:As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

Could not agree more with everything you said here. The "fans" clamoring for Grossman's return were obviously not paying attention to the games we won when he was our starter. He would have gotten sacked more times for more losses. Kyle Shanahan made ZERO adjustments against the Bills D. ZERO. What more could Beck possibly do with what he had to work with?

I agree with about 75% of this. I think that we should never "bring in" playmakers via free agency. We have been burned FAR too many times doing this. We need to draft and develop. That is what talented front offices and coaching staffs do.

I personally think it is a toss up between QB and OL in terms of need -- because we desperately need both.

It appears we will once again have a top 10 pick in the draft. There are only 2 QBs that are worthy of a top 10 pick: Luck and Jones. Therefore, assuming Luck is gone, if Jones is there, draft him. If not, take the top OT in the draft. Use our seconds and thirds for OGs. Does anyone remember the team that loaded up on OGs, C, etc. in the NFL draft 3 years ago???? It was none other than the Bills. They had the youngest OL in football a couple years ago. Now, Fitzpatrick has been sacked 8 times this year (the lowest current total this year).

A good OL cures almost every problem on offense. A good OL can make even a mediocre QB like Fitzpatrick look like a star (and give him confidence which makes him a better player regardless).

In terms of depth, we need depth in the OL -- after all the OL is the most commonly injured position in football. We also need depth and cornerback, WR, and safetys.

I believe you can bring in play makers, they just gotta be the right ones. Don't go after the highest profile biggest name. Go after someone that has a great work ethic and makes plays. Specifically for the skins just at WR, we need a veteran that still has a lot of gas in his tank (thats why I said late 20's) to help us build this WR core, theres no reason why 1 or 2 of these young receivers we have can't end up having a great future with the Redskins, they just need someone to lead by example and help them grow.

Prowl33 wrote:First let me start off by addressing most of the haters out there. We cannot continue to do what we have done for the last 20 years. Which is crucify every single head coach and QB after 1 or 2 seasons of not taking us to the playoffs. Our problem is the lack of consistency for the players, always has been. This isn't a team that needs to be repaired, this is a team that needs to be build from the ground up, which takes years of drafting, free agency, and play under the same coach.

That being said, here is what NEEDS to happen for the skins to be great again.

Mike Shanahan needs 5 years as a coach to really be judged on being a success or failure. No head coach change for another 3 seasons after this year.

We need to address a few things in the draft this year.
#1 is QB, only if its the right one, one that we have our eye on to fit our team, if the QB we want gets taken, don't just settle for someone else.
#2 is Offensive line, we need talent, and depth.
#3 is defensive depth, so when players go down we have young players to step in

In free agency, #1 objective is to bring in a great WR, someone in their late 20's that has a few years experience and success under his belt.

What will make our team a long term success, is to build each position around atleast 1 person that is a playmaker, and shows lots of talent, and surround him with young guys in the same position that can learn and have the opportunity to grow. Start a talent pool, then build around it with young talented players.

If we draft a QB, he CANNOT start, how many QB's have we ruined that way? Too many, thats the answer. Don't put a new QB in until we have the talent around him to make him successful, a good WR core, we have a solid RB team that I would keep, give him a good O-Line, and 1 year in the system as the #2 and start him the 2nd year.

Defensively we are sound, doesn't look like it all the time, but we are. We need a little bit of depth, thats it. Half of our defense this is their 2nd year in this new scheme, and the other 1/2 this is their first year. These guys need time to gel, simple as that. Our good players with experience, and good play calls, can be a top 10 if not top 5 defense in the league.

As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

So, to sum it up, give Shanahan 3 more years, let him build this team, if he's not the right guy after that, we have a good core for a new coach to come in and do something with. Bring in solid playmakers through freeagency, especially WR, and bring in some young talent to build the future of our roster. The answer is NOT to crucify our coaching staff and QB and run them out of town every couple years, LET THEM BUILD!!

Great 1st post and welcome to the site. Nice to see a little bit of rational being used here. I use the phrase, "Rome wasn't built in a day." I'm not saying that we will be "Rome" but you can't have average talent & no depth and expect to be successful.

Shanny had to go with Beck & Grossman this year because the free agency pool was terrible at the QB position. The team was/is not ready for a rookie QB right now so the only thing to do was to look to fill other area's of need first before bringing in someone.

Lastly, Fitz is not a mediocre QB. If he was, he wouldn't have just received a $60m contract if he was mediocre. The guy is playing as one of the better QB's in the league right now. His stat's do not show it but his offensive management show it. He's a very smart QB who is exploiting defensive weakness' get's the ball out quickly and checks out of plays that will not work. That's what you WANT at the QB position. No one can say that they wouldn't be DAMN happy to have someone like Fitz at the QB position right now. Even though with the porous offensive line, he would've had a terrible day yesterday like any other QB in the league.

Moving foreward, I can only hope that Shanny puts Montg. back at the Center position. Put in another true OG on the left side so that we at least have one complete side of the line instead of being a very beatable line from LT - Center. Also, you've got to get some help on the left side until Trent comes back (and don't rush him either). There are a few things you can do:

TE help - Joe Gibbs style
WR help - seal block
RB/FB help - have either explode right there for a chip block like CP used to do.

Now this is coming from a true Monday Morning QB but I think that if you're getting whoooped on every play, it's worth trying b/c it just might work.

Something else. I hope that Paulson isn't hurt b/c he pulled up big time after blocking a guy on a kick return yesterday and immediately grabbed his shoulder. Could be seeing Byrd this week if he's hurt.

Welcome Prowl 33! I agree with Frank. Great, rational first post. We do need a QB (to develop) and a WR who's a playmaker would be nice, but this team will not get anywhere until they can solidify the O-line.

Unfortunately the Cerrato era robbed us of so many draft pics that could've/should've been used to build a young line w/depth and sadly THAT is what makes it feel like we've been spinning our tires year after year.

Until we get a solid Oline we're gonna have a hard time running or throwing the football. Period. We can shuffle around skill players in any position all day, but if we have no line we're only gonna continue to get frustrated. Even the defense is negatively effected by a shabby Oline. If we can't move the ball or rack up points, then the defense gets overworked and under tremendous pressure to pitch shutouts week in and week out.

IMO, the A #1 concern is linemen. It's what great teams are built around. You need look no further that this teams history to see the importance of a great line. 3 Super Bowls, 3 different QBs (good QBs, but not great). Heck, the Hogs even made Timmy Smith look like Barry Sanders in Super Bowl XXII.

I agree with you, we need to give Shanny/Allen some more time to right the ship and 3 more years should be a fair amount of time to evaluate that. We're still a work in progress, but I still have faith we can get there. I just want to see this team built the right way.

I hate that "Suck for Luck" crap... I'm "fine focusing on O-line."

frankcal20 wrote:

Prowl33 wrote:First let me start off by addressing most of the haters out there. We cannot continue to do what we have done for the last 20 years. Which is crucify every single head coach and QB after 1 or 2 seasons of not taking us to the playoffs. Our problem is the lack of consistency for the players, always has been. This isn't a team that needs to be repaired, this is a team that needs to be build from the ground up, which takes years of drafting, free agency, and play under the same coach.

That being said, here is what NEEDS to happen for the skins to be great again.

Mike Shanahan needs 5 years as a coach to really be judged on being a success or failure. No head coach change for another 3 seasons after this year.

We need to address a few things in the draft this year.
#1 is QB, only if its the right one, one that we have our eye on to fit our team, if the QB we want gets taken, don't just settle for someone else.
#2 is Offensive line, we need talent, and depth.
#3 is defensive depth, so when players go down we have young players to step in

In free agency, #1 objective is to bring in a great WR, someone in their late 20's that has a few years experience and success under his belt.

What will make our team a long term success, is to build each position around atleast 1 person that is a playmaker, and shows lots of talent, and surround him with young guys in the same position that can learn and have the opportunity to grow. Start a talent pool, then build around it with young talented players.

If we draft a QB, he CANNOT start, how many QB's have we ruined that way? Too many, thats the answer. Don't put a new QB in until we have the talent around him to make him successful, a good WR core, we have a solid RB team that I would keep, give him a good O-Line, and 1 year in the system as the #2 and start him the 2nd year.

Defensively we are sound, doesn't look like it all the time, but we are. We need a little bit of depth, thats it. Half of our defense this is their 2nd year in this new scheme, and the other 1/2 this is their first year. These guys need time to gel, simple as that. Our good players with experience, and good play calls, can be a top 10 if not top 5 defense in the league.

As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

So, to sum it up, give Shanahan 3 more years, let him build this team, if he's not the right guy after that, we have a good core for a new coach to come in and do something with. Bring in solid playmakers through freeagency, especially WR, and bring in some young talent to build the future of our roster. The answer is NOT to crucify our coaching staff and QB and run them out of town every couple years, LET THEM BUILD!!

Great 1st post and welcome to the site. Nice to see a little bit of rational being used here. I use the phrase, "Rome wasn't built in a day." I'm not saying that we will be "Rome" but you can't have average talent & no depth and expect to be successful.

Shanny had to go with Beck & Grossman this year because the free agency pool was terrible at the QB position. The team was/is not ready for a rookie QB right now so the only thing to do was to look to fill other area's of need first before bringing in someone.

Lastly, Fitz is not a mediocre QB. If he was, he wouldn't have just received a $60m contract if he was mediocre. The guy is playing as one of the better QB's in the league right now. His stat's do not show it but his offensive management show it. He's a very smart QB who is exploiting defensive weakness' get's the ball out quickly and checks out of plays that will not work. That's what you WANT at the QB position. No one can say that they wouldn't be DAMN happy to have someone like Fitz at the QB position right now. Even though with the porous offensive line, he would've had a terrible day yesterday like any other QB in the league.

I understand why you would think this way, but you have to consider a number of things when properly analyizing a QB. Fitz has one of the best OLs in football. This is evident based on the number of times he has been sacked AND Jackson's rushing success. He's in the middle of the pack in passing yards. While I do not think he is a bad QB -- I would love to have him in DC, I wouldn't put him in the "top 10" category. And for me, if you aren't in the "top 10", I consider you mediocre -- which is average.

The fact that Fitz received a huge contract, doesn't automatically make him a better player than he actually is. I just don't understand your logic here. Haynesworth got a huge contract -- did that mean he was a good player??? Personally, I think that the contract was a bit premature -- but can understand pulling the trigger since the Bills know that if he tests the waters he most likely won't be back in Buffalo.

I personally just think we have a difference of opinion when it comes to QBs. Based on your history, I would say you prefer the game manager type QB. I like the playmaker type who will put up points, but may also turn the ball over a bit more. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree -- much like we did with Jason Campbell (how's he doing by the way?).

I think both weigh in equally between offensive playmakers and offensive line in terms of need.

WHEN our line is healthy and all starters were in. It did pretty well, Rex had plenty of time in the pocket. Problem is, it falls to pieces because we have no depth what so ever. I think it would be great to draft some young o-line talent to learn under trent williams and crew while they are healthy, and bring in their athleticism when the call comes.

Look at our offensive positions though. You have our 3 biggest threats out. Santana Moss (who I think is over rated anyways) Chris ey, and Tim Hightower. So, defenses have nothing to scare them into conservative play. They just need to all out attack the QB and can cover any receivers in single man or zone coverage without much worry. The offensive line in turn gets smashed play after play because they are getting nothing but attacked, and Beck doesn't stand a chance. No one can get open, no one is adjusting the play properly, so he just gets to sit back there till he gets smacked.

I really believe in Free Agency we need to go after a top notch wide receiver, someone who we can mold into a long term solution for us, someone with play making ability, someone that is a motivator for the team.

You fix those 2 pieces, Beck may very well be an OK short term solution at QB while we pick up someone in the draft to integrate into our offense and eventually take the field.

would it be too much to ask to find a steal out of our draft or an undrafted diamond for our offense... Something like Seventh round Stevie Johnson or (forgive me for the comparison) Undrafted Miles Austin.... Please someone, anyone from our team STEP UP! no pun intended but a little luck this way is far overdue

Mark - My favorite QB in the NFL is Phillip Rivers. Very unconventianl QB who turns the ball over quite a bit but he's a risk taker. He's a guy who won't lose games for you but will make plays. He's not the best QB - that's Rogers by a long shot right.

My whole point is that regardless of who's behind the center, you have to protect him. Regardless of what type of player they are, they will get killed.

The reason also why Fitz's stats are not that good has a lot to do with the fact that most of his passes are 3 step drops. These passes are made less than 2 seconds after the ball is snapped. A defense doesn't have time to make a play on him in such short period of time. If you take away his fire/1st read, then you can get pressure but teams have not done that this year. Doing that worked really well in Pitt yesterday. Fitz isn't that guy but I think he's a really good QB who will get better and is in the upper part of the league. I would put him in the top 10 right now.

And for JCampbell. He was having a pretty decent season this year until he got hurt. No he wasn't lighting it up but he was making plays. DHB was actually becoming a receiver.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Prowl33 wrote:As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

Could not agree more with everything you said here. The "fans" clamoring for Grossman's return were obviously not paying attention to the games we won when he was our starter. He would have gotten sacked more times for more losses. Kyle Shanahan made ZERO adjustments against the Bills D. ZERO. What more could Beck possibly do with what he had to work with?

in the NFL..........NEPOTISM = failure

Get rid of Kyle or Shanny can start calling plays....heck I dunno...!!!

tribeofjudah wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Prowl33 wrote:As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

Could not agree more with everything you said here. The "fans" clamoring for Grossman's return were obviously not paying attention to the games we won when he was our starter. He would have gotten sacked more times for more losses. Kyle Shanahan made ZERO adjustments against the Bills D. ZERO. What more could Beck possibly do with what he had to work with?

in the NFL..........NEPOTISM = failure

Get rid of Kyle or Shanny can start calling plays....heck I dunno...!!!

Would you call Bill Belichick a nepotist?

ATX_Skins wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Prowl33 wrote:As for the NOW, play our players strengths, Beck is getting slaughtered out there, 75% of it isn't his fault, and the other 25% is just reactionary to getting the snot beat out of him. This guy can run, play him out of the pocket some, run some boot-legs and let him use his legs. Once you get some success with that, then mix in some of the regular offensive scheme. The pocket will be more secure because the opposing defense will have to watch for that mobile threat, running lanes will open up because defenses will have to play more outside on us. Then when the running game is open, work off the play action pass to keep the D on their toes. Sitting Beck in the pocket play after play and letting him get demolished isn't going to do anything but ruin whatever confidence he has. Grossman would of done worse, because he would of forced those throws out earlier than they needed to be, and we would of had 2-3 more pics that game, and buffalo probably would of put up atleast 14 more points than they did.

Could not agree more with everything you said here. The "fans" clamoring for Grossman's return were obviously not paying attention to the games we won when he was our starter. He would have gotten sacked more times for more losses. Kyle Shanahan made ZERO adjustments against the Bills D. ZERO. What more could Beck possibly do with what he had to work with?

in the NFL..........NEPOTISM = failure

Get rid of Kyle or Shanny can start calling plays....heck I dunno...!!!

Would you call Bill Belichick a nepotist?

Belichick doesn't have any family members on his coaching staff does he? Then by definition, he's not nepotistic.