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Skins-Bills postgame thread
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 8:59 pm
by Irn-Bru
What is there to say? At no point, in my opinion, were we ever competitive in that game. From top to bottom, with the except of Fred Davis and perhaps one or two other players, this was the most discouraging Redskins game I can remember in some time. An extremely boring and frustrating game.
My takeaway from this is that we simply must acquire a QB for next year as the next step in our rebuilding. Decent quarterback play would have kept our offense on the field more and given our defense more of a break.
Oh well.
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:07 pm
by REDEEMEDSKIN
IB - I noticed that Buck and Aikman were doing everything within their ability to sell the viewers on a potential Skins turnaround. "There's plenty of time left in THIS game!" They must have gotten sick of saying this by the middle of the 3rd Quarter, when the Skins' goose was wholly cooked.
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:08 pm
by Skinsfan55
Shouldn't this be called the "postmortem" thread instead of the postgame thread?
The Redskins are cooked and Shanahan has made very little progress as head coach. Then again, he hasn't had a decent QB to work with. The Skins hit the re-set button on this season and didn't spend valuable picks on a QB. Okay... hopefully we're active in FA next season and get a real O-Line and we add one of the brilliant young QB's.
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:10 pm
by Kilmer72
I thought our defense was better than this. The offense I am not surprised. Too many injuries.
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:21 pm
by PAPDOG67
Next year's draft should be QB, C, LG, RG, and then use the rest for secondary help.
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:22 pm
by Countertrey
PAPDOG67 wrote:Next year's draft should be QB, C, LG, RG, and then use the rest for secondary help.
We need a true nose tackle... desperately...
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:33 pm
by HailSkins98
Watching this game today reminded me of the mess 2 years ago when Zorn had the reigns. I know we were losing from the beginning, but how do we only run the ball 8 times with Torain and no carries with Helu. It's just not our players that need replaced. Also our Defense was very disappointing.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:06 am
by skinsfan#33
HailSkins98 wrote:Watching this game today reminded me of the mess 2 years ago when Zorn had the reigns. I know we were losing from the beginning, but how do we only run the ball 8 times with Torain and no carries with Helu. It's just not our players that need replaced. Also our Defense was very disappointing.
Because, like most of the other weeks were people complained about us not running the ball, out simply wasn't working.
The biggest reason we lost yesterday wasn't the QB. It was an OL that couldn't run block and obviously couldn't pass protect. What did they end up giving up 6, 7, 8, or 9 sacks. I can't remember. What o do know is the Bills matched their season total of 4 sacks in the FIRST HALF!
Sure the QB want very good, but it is kind of hard to judge Beck when he had no OL in front of him. I bet you could have fielded a group of high school players that would have done better.
Both tackles were atrocious. Montgomery was bad. Chester want very good. The only player that didn't stand out to me as horrible was Cook and that might have veren because I didn't expect much from him.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 6:23 am
by skinsfan#33
Another thing. I haven't been buying into the Kyle bashing and I have even defended him, but yesterday, with and OL doing their best matador impersonation, he did NOTHING to adjust. Nothing!
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:13 am
by vwoodzpusha
Kilmer72 wrote:I thought our defense was better than this. The offense I am not surprised. Too many injuries.
What did the defense do to make you think that? They held a team who averges 38 points a game to 23. They got an interception and a fumble recovery. What more can they do? Hold them to 13 points? Not that it would matter seeing how the offense couldnt get a touchdown.
This game isnt on the defense.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 8:31 am
by StorminMormon86
This game was not on the QB at all. How much of a rhythm did you expect Beck to get in when he's getting rushed and/or sacked every single play? He was sacked 9 TIMES. That's strictly on the O-Line. This game was lost becasue of the atrocious offensive line play. Our D held them to 13 points in the first half, 10 in the second. What more could you honestly ask for out of them?
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:18 am
by Burgundy&Wha?
While the defense has dropped in performance the last several weeks, had they held the Bills to three points we still would've lost. If we were to field a decent offense, our defense would play much better. They can attack in small doses, but they shouldn't be left on the field all day.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:32 am
by stacylee12
skinsfan#33 wrote:Another thing. I haven't been buying into the Kyle bashing and I have even defended him, but yesterday, with and OL doing their best matador impersonation, he did NOTHING to adjust. Nothing!
Where the heck is th Kyle bashing thread because I want in. Everybody knows the way you help the O line is Run.The.Football.
If you aren't even going to go into a hurry up 20 points down with 8 minutes to go, you might as well Run.The.Football.
When a running back gets 100 yards on 20 carries, it is not because he gets 5 yards every carry. He gets a 30 yarded in there. Some stops behind the line. You have to Run.The.Football. to get rushing yards, slow down a rush and get your O line in sync.
Frustrating.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 9:32 am
by stacylee12
skinsfan#33 wrote:Another thing. I haven't been buying into the Kyle bashing and I have even defended him, but yesterday, with and OL doing their best matador impersonation, he did NOTHING to adjust. Nothing!
Where the heck is th Kyle bashing thread because I want in. Everybody knows the way you help the O line is Run.The.Football.
If you aren't even going to go into a hurry up 20 points down with 8 minutes to go, you might as well Run.The.Football.
When a running back gets 100 yards on 20 carries, it is not because he gets 5 yards every carry. He gets a 30 yarded in there. Some stops behind the line. You have to Run.The.Football. to get rushing yards, slow down a rush and get your O line in sync.
Frustrating.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:40 am
by StorminMormon86
Anyone else think Kyle is deliberately "sabotaging" Beck at QB, kind of along the same lines of what John Fox is doing with Tebow? Being "forced" to switch QB under fan pressure, kind of throwing it right back in their faces by not utilizing his strengths and running the same offense we did with Rex? I don't necessarily think this is the case, but it's food for thought.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 10:43 am
by KazooSkinsFan
StorminMormon86 wrote:Anyone else think Kyle is deliberately "sabotaging" Beck at QB, kind of along the same lines of what John Fox is doing with Tebow? Being "forced" to switch QB under fan pressure, kind of throwing it right back in their faces by not utilizing his strengths and running the same offense we did with Rex? I don't necessarily think this is the case, but it's food for thought.
No, no it's not...
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:25 pm
by skinsfan#33
stacylee12 wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:Another thing. I haven't been buying into the Kyle bashing and I have even defended him, but yesterday, with and OL doing their best matador impersonation, he did NOTHING to adjust. Nothing!
Where the heck is th Kyle bashing thread because I want in. Everybody knows the way you help the O line is Run.The.Football.
If you aren't even going to go into a hurry up 20 points down with 8 minutes to go, you might as well Run.The.Football.
When a running back gets 100 yards on 20 carries, it is not because he gets 5 yards every carry. He gets a 30 yarded in there. Some stops behind the line. You have to Run.The.Football. to get rushing yards, slow down a rush and get your O line in sync.
Frustrating.
Do you live in fantasy land?
I mean seriously, do you really think you can keep trying to run the ball when it isn't working, you're down by 20, you aren't converting 3rd downs, and your defense is going to keep giving up long drives and points.
So you want:
Run, run, incomplete pass, punt
(D gives up a 7 min 12 drive for a TD or FG)
Run, run, completed pass short of first down, punt
(D another long drive and points)
Run, run, sack, punt
(D actually forces a 3 and out - shocker)
Run, run, pass for a first, run, run, another first down, run, run, sack, punt
(D gives up a 5 min 7 play drive TD)
Just keep doing what isn't working. Brilliant!
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:17 pm
by stacylee12
Torrain ran the ball 8 times.
8.
8.
That's ridiculous in a 9 sack game.
Of course, you have to run block to get yards in the run game. But it is easier to run block than pass protect. Survey 100 O-Lineman, 100 will say so. It is not as if we abandoned the run because we were too busy passing for 1st downs.
I am not making this up! This is not my personal bright idea. This is what our coaches said, including "Future Hall of Famer" Mike Shanahan.
Kyle Shanahan, September 16th:
“You always want to be able to stick with it. It’s always a challenge as a play-caller when you’re not getting as much yardage as you want but that’s usually how the NFL is. If you can stick with it, usually one busts free. We didn’t get that but we were able to move the chains and pick up first downs, which allows you to keep mixing it up.”
Mike Shanahan, September 29th:
“First of all, we’re going to run the football. If they look at rushing attempts, we’re going to be in the top 10. We believe in the running game. We’ve got to be more effective. That’s the bottom line. Anybody that’s going to complain about getting carries on our football team, then they’ve got to go to a different league. Because, you know, we’ll be in the top 10 normally. If not, we’re not nearly as effective as we need to be, because that’s part of our philosophy. But I think now we’re eighth in rushing attempts, and we’ll probably continue to be pretty close to the top 10. We’d just like more plays and we’d like to execute them a little bit better.”
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:21 pm
by StorminMormon86
When you're already down 20 points there is no running game anymore. This is the 2nd week in a row now where the game got so far out of reach we had to just completely abandon our run game in the 2nd half. And it's not like it was effective in the first half either. Torain had 14 yards on 8 attempts. Beck had 10 on 3. Yuck.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:58 pm
by frankcal20
stacylee12 wrote:Torrain ran the ball 8 times.
8.
8.
That's ridiculous in a 9 sack game.
Of course, you have to run block to get yards in the run game. But it is easier to run block than pass protect. Survey 100 O-Lineman, 100 will say so. It is not as if we abandoned the run because we were too busy passing for 1st downs.
I am not making this up! This is not my personal bright idea. This is what our coaches said, including "Future Hall of Famer" Mike Shanahan.
Kyle Shanahan, September 16th:
“You always want to be able to stick with it. It’s always a challenge as a play-caller when you’re not getting as much yardage as you want but that’s usually how the NFL is. If you can stick with it, usually one busts free. We didn’t get that but we were able to move the chains and pick up first downs, which allows you to keep mixing it up.”
Mike Shanahan, September 29th:
“First of all, we’re going to run the football. If they look at rushing attempts, we’re going to be in the top 10. We believe in the running game. We’ve got to be more effective. That’s the bottom line. Anybody that’s going to complain about getting carries on our football team, then they’ve got to go to a different league. Because, you know, we’ll be in the top 10 normally. If not, we’re not nearly as effective as we need to be, because that’s part of our philosophy. But I think now we’re eighth in rushing attempts, and we’ll probably continue to be pretty close to the top 10. We’d just like more plays and we’d like to execute them a little bit better.”
While I agree with you and believe you have to run the ball to be an effective offense, I can't believe that this team can do it right now given their current personnel. These quotes were given before we lost our lineman. Right now we have Montgomery who is playing out of position at Guard. Cook is not ready to be a starter. Locklier has played LT in the league for years but he needs help if the LG is having a tough time as well. If Williams get's back in there 90% healthy, I think the line improves greatly but until you move Mont. back to center and put in an adaquate LG, it's going to be more of the same as we saw last week. Running Passing, it won't matter b/c there is no protection or holes up front.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 2:02 pm
by frankcal20
Another thing:
Buffalo got most of their pressure in the 2nd half rushing only 3 & 4 guys.
When the line actually held up, the WR's could not get any separation. That was one of the things that was highlited during the game. All around this offense is playing very poorly. It's not all on coaching but they are a big part of the problem because they are not making adjustments to help your team. Even if it is a 7 play drive that produces no points, you keep your defense off the field for a bit instead of having them out there yesterday what felt like the entire game.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:27 pm
by skinsfan#33
frankcal20 wrote:Another thing:
Buffalo got most of their pressure in the 2nd half rushing only 3 & 4 guys.
When the line actually held up, the WR's could not get any separation. That was one of the things that was highlited during the game. All around this offense is playing very poorly. It's not all on coaching but they are a big part of the problem because they are not making adjustments to help your team. Even if it is a 7 play drive that produces no points, you keep your defense off the field for a bit instead of having them out there yesterday what felt like the entire game.
I don't know Frank, there weren't that many "coverage sacks". If you look at almost all of the sack, they had Beck down in less than 3 seconds (less than to 2 in most cases!).
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 3:42 pm
by frankcal20
Oh I agree but had the WR's gotten ANY separation the play calling would've been different, I hope anyways.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 5:48 pm
by RayNAustin
Skinsfan55 wrote:Shouldn't this be called the "postmortem" thread instead of the postgame thread?
The Redskins are cooked and Shanahan has made very little progress as head coach. Then again, he hasn't had a decent QB to work with. The Skins hit the re-set button on this season and didn't spend valuable picks on a QB. Okay... hopefully we're active in FA next season and get a real O-Line and we add one of the brilliant young QB's.
Let me say what seems obvious to me, but maybe not so obvious to others.
Shanahan picked the QBs. He picked McNabb last year, and that was a debacle, including how he handled him, and he picked Grossman as the backup to McNabb. Shanahan also picked Beck, and claimed he didn't need to draft a QB, as he would stake his reputation on Beck. Then after the preseason, he names Grossman the Starter, who proceeds to go 3-2, albeit not very pretty. So he shifts gears and starts Beck, and what little offense that existed under Grossman's management, disappeared like a thief in the night. Am I missing anything here? Oh yes, I am .... Mike Shanahan also picked that just older than a teenage twerp to be his Offensive Coordinator ...and I apologize in advance if such bluntness is "offensive" to anyone ... but after watching Kyle's offense, I don't see how anyone could find that nearly as offensive as watching his offense fail to perform.
Who are these coaches anyway? How do you give up 9 sacks in one game to a team that was averaging less than 1 sack per game? Who's coaching the QB and the line? Who's coaching (or not coaching) up these receivers who seem to be the ONLY NFL receivers that can be covered for 7 seconds without gaining separation? How can you fail again and again against teams struggling on defense ... must the Redskins be the universal get well medicine that every D-Coordinator needs, making every poor defense in the NFL feel like the 85 Bears for one day at least? Do we need another Bingo Man to come in and install a dose of wisdom and common sense?
The common denominator here is Mike & Kyle, and as it stands right now, both Grossman and Beck have performed more poorly than did McNabb, even though he was expected to perform in a brand new system immediately out of the blocks, with a poorer o-line and an entire offensive team learning a new scheme. So far, the offense has regressed over the first 6 games, and literally imploded yesterday into an embarrassment even Jim Zorn never matched. (I know, I'm throwing low blows now).
But really ... is it really much better under Mikey? Actually not. After 23 games, 9-14 is worse than Zorn, worse than anyone else if I recall the graphic NFL put up yesterday about Redskin coaches and their records. But did we really need the graphic? No ... the results are painfully obvious, and if I seem frustrated, that's because I am particularly frustrated with worse results coming from a coach with the highest level of arrogance since Marty (but at least he had some justification for his).
But I'm not the only one ... did you see London Fletcher seething mad on the sideline yesterday after that TD? Do you see these guys grasping at air on defense, big play after big play, and guys grasping at straws with these endless 3 and outs, after 3 and outs on offense? Gift wrap a ball, and place it in the Red Zone and this offense still can't even score a 3 pointer?
I refuse to blame the defense, even after the past two weeks, because they are constantly being put back on the field, with no help from a totally inept offense that is stuck in reverse.
It's easy to say everything would be different, if we only had a good QB. But I dare say if we did, we still wouldn't see it, because whatever failure might occur, it would be cardio vascular or some other excuse related, and not due to a system that was made successful by a couple of guys in Houston who are very good at playing catch.
And we're stuck with one Shanahan because of the other.
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:16 pm
by spenser
RayNAustin wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:Shouldn't this be called the "postmortem" thread instead of the postgame thread?
The Redskins are cooked and Shanahan has made very little progress as head coach. Then again, he hasn't had a decent QB to work with. The Skins hit the re-set button on this season and didn't spend valuable picks on a QB. Okay... hopefully we're active in FA next season and get a real O-Line and we add one of the brilliant young QB's.
Let me say what seems obvious to me, but maybe not so obvious to others.
Shanahan picked the QBs. He picked McNabb last year, and that was a debacle, including how he handled him, and he picked Grossman as the backup to McNabb. Shanahan also picked Beck, and claimed he didn't need to draft a QB, as he would stake his reputation on Beck. Then after the preseason, he names Grossman the Starter, who proceeds to go 3-2, albeit not very pretty. So he shifts gears and starts Beck, and what little offense that existed under Grossman's management, disappeared like a thief in the night. Am I missing anything here? Oh yes, I am .... Mike Shanahan also picked that just older than a teenage twerp to be his Offensive Coordinator ...and I apologize in advance if such bluntness is "offensive" to anyone ... but after watching Kyle's offense, I don't see how anyone could find that nearly as offensive as watching his offense fail to perform.
Who are these coaches anyway? How do you give up 9 sacks in one game to a team that was averaging less than 1 sack per game? Who's coaching the QB and the line? Who's coaching (or not coaching) up these receivers who seem to be the ONLY NFL receivers that can be covered for 7 seconds without gaining separation? How can you fail again and again against teams struggling on defense ... must the Redskins be the universal get well medicine that every D-Coordinator needs, making every poor defense in the NFL feel like the 85 Bears for one day at least? Do we need another Bingo Man to come in and install a dose of wisdom and common sense?
The common denominator here is Mike & Kyle, and as it stands right now, both Grossman and Beck have performed more poorly than did McNabb, even though he was expected to perform in a brand new system immediately out of the blocks, with a poorer o-line and an entire offensive team learning a new scheme. So far, the offense has regressed over the first 6 games, and literally imploded yesterday into an embarrassment even Jim Zorn never matched. (I know, I'm throwing low blows now).
But really ... is it really much better under Mikey? Actually not. After 23 games, 9-14 is worse than Zorn, worse than anyone else if I recall the graphic NFL put up yesterday about Redskin coaches and their records. But did we really need the graphic? No ... the results are painfully obvious, and if I seem frustrated, that's because I am particularly frustrated with worse results coming from a coach with the highest level of arrogance since Marty (but at least he had some justification for his).
But I'm not the only one ... did you see London Fletcher seething mad on the sideline yesterday after that TD? Do you see these guys grasping at air on defense, big play after big play, and guys grasping at straws with these endless 3 and outs, after 3 and outs on offense? Gift wrap a ball, and place it in the Red Zone and this offense still can't even score a 3 pointer?
I refuse to blame the defense, even after the past two weeks, because they are constantly being put back on the field, with no help from a totally inept offense that is stuck in reverse.
It's easy to say everything would be different, if we only had a good QB. But I dare say if we did, we still wouldn't see it, because whatever failure might occur, it would be cardio vascular or some other excuse related, and not due to a system that was made successful by a couple of guys in Houston who are very good at playing catch.
And we're stuck with one Shanahan because of the other.
Bravo! I agree with every single freaking thing you said, and could probably add a few low blows as well, but why bother. The thing that pisses me off the most is how cocky and arrogant Shanny is. The guy would bug me if he were 14-9 let alone 9-14. The fact is that coaches DO matter, but players matter a whole hell of a lot more. There is a valid argument that mike didn't do a thing without elway, and why kyle was a good OC with Schaub and A.Johnson, and acting like a pompous know it all doesnt help your cause.