The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The suck for Luck sweepstakes is in full effect. Now, out of the three winless teams right now (Colts, Dolphins, Rams) I honestly think the Rams are the worst. Now if the Rams get the 1st pick they will either auction it off or auction off Bradford. Its also a possibility if the Colts get it they could auction it off depending on how Manning is by the end of the year. I put it at about 60% the Colts take Luck if they do get it. Now in the event that pick goes up for auction and we are around 12-17. What do you give up? There will be teams much higher up so we will have to exteremely out bid higher picks...3 1st rounders? Maybe go Ditka style and give are entire 2012 draft up? I honestly think it has been waaaaay to loong and I might be crazy or jaded but neither of those seem to outlandish to FINALLY get our franchise QB with a good coach to groom him. Or do you trade up slightly and try to get Barkley, Jones, RGIII?? Either way The top half is going to be littered with people needeing QB's (Miami, Denver, Seattle, Cleveland) What would you give up for Luck?

Nothing. We won't get Luck no matter how many fans want us to. I see the Colts or Rams picking him up.

Luck isn't the answer to the problems with the Redskins. Bruce Allen and the Coaching Staff are much bigger problems than the QB position is.

I forsee the Redskins picking in the top 5-7 of the First Round, and that should give themthe opportunity to get a solid starter and star, or to trade down to get more bodies for the meat grinder like we did this year. I also see the potential to put Orakpo on the trading block, since it appears Kerrigan is working out fine.

There is no way in hell that Orakpo is going on the trading block. I don't agree with a lot of things you say but coming out here and saying that only shows how little you actually know about football. As for the coach & gm, they are doing it the right way. The issue is that you really don't know what that looks like because you've never seen it before.

As for Luck. To trade up say 5 slots like R_F mentioned, you're looking at swapping your 1sts this year, giving up your 1st and 2nd and possibly another 1st the following year. This has been heavily discussed on Moving the Chains radio show on SiriusNFL Radio where Pat Kirwin, who used to be a GM for the Jets along with Tim Ryan (he called our game this past week) host the show. Give it a listen one day if you can. Channel 88.

lil Luck....hahaha, he AINT little and he will COST a fortune...!!!

PMG12569 wrote:The suck for Luck sweepstakes is in full effect. Now, out of the three winless teams right now (Colts, Dolphins, Rams) I honestly think the Rams are the worst. Now if the Rams get the 1st pick they will either auction it off or auction off Bradford. Its also a possibility if the Colts get it they could auction it off depending on how Manning is by the end of the year. I put it at about 60% the Colts take Luck if they do get it. Now in the event that pick goes up for auction and we are around 12-17. What do you give up? There will be teams much higher up so we will have to exteremely out bid higher picks...3 1st rounders? Maybe go Ditka style and give are entire 2012 draft up? I honestly think it has been waaaaay to loong and I might be crazy or jaded but neither of those seem to outlandish to FINALLY get our franchise QB with a good coach to groom him. Or do you trade up slightly and try to get Barkley, Jones, RGIII?? Either way The top half is going to be littered with people needeing QB's (Miami, Denver, Seattle, Cleveland) What would you give up for Luck?

If it was a weak qb class then I would say you have to consider trying to trade up to get him. However, it isn't. The smarter move imo is to try and draft either Jones or Barkley, one of which may be available without even having to trade up the way the rest of our season appears likely to unfold.

What about that kid from Baylor? Also I believe the kid from Wash. State & AZ State are coming out too.

frankcal20 wrote:What about that kid from Baylor? Also I believe the kid from Wash. State & AZ State are coming out too.

You're referring to Robert Griffin from Baylor and Nick Foles from Arizona. I've seen both projected in the first round by some, and both are good qbs, but I don't think that either is in the class of Luck, Jones, and Barkley.

Not Foles. I'm not as high on him as some of the other QB's mentioned.

Arizona State Sun Devils Stats - 2011
Year:


Passing Statistics
NAME------------CMP--ATT---YDS--CMP%---YDS/A--TD--INT--RAT
Brock Osweiler--171--259---1968--66.0------7.60---15----8---142.8

He's on a Jr and maybe not ready to come out just yet but I've watched him play a bit and he looks pretty good. QB is a position it's hard for me to scout.

frankcal20 wrote:There is no way in hell that Orakpo is going on the trading block. I don't agree with a lot of things you say but coming out here and saying that only shows how little you actually know about football.

Why Not? Kerrigan and Orakpo are the same player, just a couple years difference in age.... they can both pass rush but couldn't cover MY worthless butt out of the backfield or from the TE position. Kerrigan is the better run stopper in my opinion. Get rid of Orakpo and find a Veteran OLB who can COVER a TE or back and we'd be a lot better off so far as I'm concerned. Watching those two chase a receiver 10-12 yards downfield because they can't cover him is getting VERY OLD, VERY FAST.

frankcal20 wrote:As for the coach & gm, they are doing it the right way. The issue is that you really don't know what that looks like because you've never seen it before.

If that's "the right way", then I don't ever want to see it again, frank. Then again we all know that I view football specifically and sports in general much differently than most people do.

frankcal20 wrote:As for Luck. To trade up say 5 slots like R_F mentioned, you're looking at swapping your 1sts this year, giving up your 1st and 2nd and possibly another 1st the following year.

I didn't say I wanted to trade up. I don't see Luck (or any QB) as being the Savior of this franchise. Yes, we need a significant upgrade at QB, but no rookie straight out of College is going to fix the OLine, RB, WR, PK, and CB/S issues this team needs to desparately address.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:What about that kid from Baylor? Also I believe the kid from Wash. State & AZ State are coming out too.

You're referring to Robert Griffin from Baylor and Nick Foles from Arizona. I've seen both projected in the first round by some, and both are good qbs, but I don't think that either is in the class of Luck, Jones, and Barkley.

IMHO, Luck and Jones are the top of the class. I see Barkley being similar to a Sanchez or Flacco -- the "game manager" type. I would prefer to take the risk in an attempt to acquire a "playmaker" type QB. And by "take the risk" I don't mean spend all our draft picks to get Luck or Jones -- more in the lines of taking someone later on in the draft that is less polished but has the playmaker ability.

I am not too sure about Griffin as I haven't seen much of him -- although he appears to be (despite his listed size) a bit small and too prone to run and not being patient in the pocket. I would need to find out a bit more info on the kid. I also like the QB from OK State -- but his age (at 28 ) basically kills that idea.

How about Russell Wilson!!!!!
Vertically challenged but suited to play in the WCO and is a duel threat QB.

frankcal20 wrote:How about Russell Wilson!!!!!
Vertically challenged but suited to play in the WCO and is a duel threat QB.

hahaha. i was waiting for you to mention him, he's been really impressive at Wisconsin this year. I think his height (or lack thereof) might be too much to overcome though. He's listed at 5'11 which means he's probably closer to 5'9 or 5'10.

I believe he legit measured at 5'10 but keep in mind that although Breez is said to be 6'1, it's been documented that he is shorter than that.

PMG12569 wrote:The suck for Luck sweepstakes is in full effect. Now, out of the three winless teams right now (Colts, Dolphins, Rams) I honestly think the Rams are the worst. Now if the Rams get the 1st pick they will either auction it off or auction off Bradford. Its also a possibility if the Colts get it they could auction it off depending on how Manning is by the end of the year. I put it at about 60% the Colts take Luck if they do get it. Now in the event that pick goes up for auction and we are around 12-17. What do you give up? There will be teams much higher up so we will have to exteremely out bid higher picks...3 1st rounders? Maybe go Ditka style and give are entire 2012 draft up? I honestly think it has been waaaaay to loong and I might be crazy or jaded but neither of those seem to outlandish to FINALLY get our franchise QB with a good coach to groom him. Or do you trade up slightly and try to get Barkley, Jones, RGIII?? Either way The top half is going to be littered with people needeing QB's (Miami, Denver, Seattle, Cleveland) What would you give up for Luck?

If we had a chance to trade for the first pick in the 2012 draft I would tell the team on the other side of the trade to come back to us after they have their best trades offers and make sure we trump that best offer. I have no idea today what the trade value would be for Luck so we'll have to wait and see. But he is a franchise potential QB.

I believe Luck could start today for a lot of QB hungry teams in the NFL; including us.

I think that I am so desperate for a great franchise QB that i am willing to trade NOTHING but the most valuable member of our team for Luck:

I propose that we trade Daniel Snyder, surely the most valuable member of the team in terms of dollars and cents, for Luck.

Danny can take his money with him too.

Dont sleep on kellen moore either. He'll be available after the first round because of his height, but he's an accurate passer who just wins

frankcal20 wrote:I believe he legit measured at 5'10 but keep in mind that although Breez is said to be 6'1, it's been documented that he is shorter than that.

I am less interested in Wilson's height as I am with his hand size. Most QBs tend to throw through lanes (and not over OLs) anyway. For guys under 6'0, they have to have enormously large hands (for their size) in order to throw a pro size football. IMHO, a QB MUST have hands larger than 9 & 1/4' (palm base to middle finger) to even be considered a viable NFL QB candidate. In college, they only need hands to be around 8' - 8 & 1/2' to easily through an ncaa size football.

In your example, Drew Brees is just over 6'0, but has a hand size of 10 and 1/4 -- which is more than adequate. I think that people tend to focus on Brees' height -- because if you look at everything outside of that, he has all the combine-esq ingredients necessary to be a top QB.

Also, I hope that MS & Allen don't go for a west coast style QB. I think it is fairly obvious that Wilson isn't the type of QB we need with this team.

markshark84 wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I believe he legit measured at 5'10 but keep in mind that although Breez is said to be 6'1, it's been documented that he is shorter than that.

I am less interested in Wilson's height as I am with his hand size. Most QBs tend to throw through lanes (and not over OLs) anyway. For guys under 6'0, they have to have enormously large hands (for their size) in order to throw a pro size football. IMHO, a QB MUST have hands larger than 9 & 1/4' (palm base to middle finger) to even be considered a viable NFL QB candidate. In college, they only need hands to be around 8' - 8 & 1/2' to easily through an ncaa size football.

In your example, Drew Brees is just over 6'0, but has a hand size of 10 and 1/4 -- which is more than adequate. I think that people tend to focus on Brees' height -- because if you look at everything outside of that, he has all the combine-esq ingredients necessary to be a top QB.

Also, I hope that MS & Allen don't go for a west coast style QB. I think it is fairly obvious that Wilson isn't the type of QB we need with this team.

Good point. If I remember correctly that was the major knock on Shaun King when he was qb for the Bucs. That was blamed for his fumbles and accuracy issues.

I wouldn't even consider trading up to get Luck. It would cost way too much to move up from the middle of the first round to the top spot.

And if we drafted him he would suck!

The last franchise QB we drafted was Sammy Baugh. Not typo much luck in getting franchise passers.

skinsfan#33 wrote:I wouldn't even consider trading up to get Luck. It would cost way too much to move up from the middle of the first round to the top spot.

And if we drafted him he would suck!

The last franchise QB we drafted was Sammy Baugh. Not typo much luck in getting franchise passers.

I think Sammy Baugh was signed, not draft. As for having bad luck with drafting franchise qbs, a lot of that has to do with poor evaluation/drafting rather than bad luck, with the exception of Heath Shuler who most people at the time thought was a good pick. You look at the other two qb's that we drafted high recently, Ramsey and Campbell, and both of those picks were essentially reaches. Ramsey was taken very late in the first and really didn't have a chance here because Spurrier did his best to try and get him killed. Campbell was expected to go in the second, we took him in the first, and we missed on that pick. It happens.

Should we never draft wide receivers in the first round because of Desmond Howard, Westbrook, and 50/50? We haven't had success with first round DTs either, so are they out?

If you go by our history since the last Super Bowl and don't draft positions we've drafted poorly in then you'll be taking safeties, tight ends, defensive ends, and offensive linemen every year in the first because we've had busts at just about every position.

Punters and kickers?

Redskin in Canada wrote:I think that I am so desperate for a great franchise QB that i am willing to trade NOTHING but the most valuable member of our team for Luck:

I propose that we trade Daniel Snyder, surely the most valuable member of the team in terms of dollars and cents, for Luck.

Danny can take his money with him too.

I second the motion. All in favor say aye!!!!

HA HA I am intrigued by the Packers way of owning. I wonder what happens for them though when someone needs to fire the coach. I wonder what happens to the person that can fire the coach if he needs to be let go?

They seem to have a winning way about them with no real owner.

Robert Griffin III. If he comes out. Extremely accurate, Looks to pass from the pocket 1st, and would probably instantly be the most athletic quarterback in the NFL. Also the type of quality individual you can build a team around.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:I wouldn't even consider trading up to get Luck. It would cost way too much to move up from the middle of the first round to the top spot.

And if we drafted him he would suck!

The last franchise QB we drafted was Sammy Baugh. Not typo much luck in getting franchise passers.

I think Sammy Baugh was signed, not draft. As for having bad luck with drafting franchise qbs, a lot of that has to do with poor evaluation/drafting rather than bad luck, with the exception of Heath Shuler who most people at the time thought was a good pick. You look at the other two qb's that we drafted high recently, Ramsey and Campbell, and both of those picks were essentially reaches. Ramsey was taken very late in the first and really didn't have a chance here because Spurrier did his best to try and get him killed.
Campbell was expected to go in the second, we took him in the first, and we missed on that pick. It happens.

Should we never draft wide receivers in the first round because of
Desmond Howard, Westbrook, and 50/50? We haven't had success with
first round DTs either, so are they out?


If you go by our history since the last Super Bowl and don't draft positions
we've drafted poorly in then you'll be taking safeties, tight ends, defensive
ends, and offensive linemen every year in the first because we've had busts
at just about every position.

Actually, Slinging Sammy was drafted in the 1st round of the 1937 draft by
the Skins 6th overall Out of TCU.

No, I'm not saying we should never draft players at positions that we have
had a bad history of drafting. What I am saying is in our almost 80 year history we have only drafted one franchise QB and he was drafted about 75 years ago. The odds are that we will whiff at QB, so w shouldn't go all in on one player, when the our history says he be a bust for us.

By the way, I personally would never draft a WR in the to half of the first round and hw would have to be an absolute monster for me to consider drafting him any where in the 1st. The risk / reward factor on WRs just don't justify a first round pick.