The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Are you redskin fans not worried about the decision's to bring in all these Free Agent's and Giving such hugh Bonus?

So much money to player who just the year before were just above average..Dont get me wrong i thought coles was a great WR.But you have to remember Jet fans know we got him with a 3rd round pick..
So watching him he was very productive in what #'s he put up in relation to where he was drafted...did he EARN the right to be paid the way your owner paid him...NO.

He got that much money + his bonus to LEAVE us and come play for the skins,who in all fairness were a team who leaving last season were no where near as good as us.
So you can understand why the comment's like "you over paid" are being made.

You have to take into consideration that your offer was so much bigger because you were trying to lure his to come play for your Team. A 7-9 NON playoff team(no offense).

Our offer was fair,Snyder made an offer he could'nt refuse.
I dont blame him...loyality is DEAD in pro sports.

This is how Dan Snyder does buisness....

Now with champ turning down this GIANT offer,you have to be worried that the player are now demanding what they want...he wants his bonus upfront ,the skins want 3 years...who will win the power struggle...if it's champ you should be extremely worried.

Whats your cap situation like?Seriously.

Are you worried that you will losse either Arrington or Bailey....can you sign them both?

WHAT THE HELL IS AN: SIRSMIZZY ANYWAY?

WHAT'S UP, WHY ARE YOU HATE'IN? I KEEP HEARING AROUND THE LEAGUE THAT "YOUR OWNER" OVER PAYS FOR HIS PLAYERS.

I TRULY BELIEVE THAT ALL THE OTHER FANS AROUND THE LEAGUE WISH THE HAD AN OWNER LIKE SNYDER (WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF STIENBRENNER OF COURSE).

SNYDER JUST WANTS TO WIN, AND WIN NOW!! THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT. YES IT'S AGRESSIVE AND MY PUT OFF SOME PEOPLE, BUT I WOULD SAY TO THAT IS...HE PLAYS BY AND WITHIIN THE RULES OF THE LEAGUE, SO TAKE IT AND LIKE IT JET FAN!

AS FOR COLES; BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THAT WE PAID JUST ABOUT RIGHT...MAYBE EVEN UNDERPAID!

THIS GUY IS SUCH A STUD IN PRACTICE THAT IT MOTIVATES ALL HIS TEAMATES. SO GIANT FAN WANABE, PLEASE LEAVE THE HATE'IN AT HOME AND ENJOY THE ASS KICKING ON THURSDAY

SO CAL. SKIN KING!

What are you babblin about?I posted a serious question and this is how you answer?

The difference between Steinbrenner and Snyder is that Gearge is a BETTER buisness man and OBVIOUSLY a better judge of talent.

As a fan you should be thrilled he goes out and try to get all the top FA.....you should also be worried that it's not WORKING.With all the money he has put into the skin's the last 3 years you should have a superbowl victory and be the favorite this year.....

Listen come back when your ready for a real football conversation not this"your team sucks"nonsense your coming at me with...

I made a point in the other thread and got absolutely no answeres therefore I'll try again. Any Hogs care to respond?

Do you think it's a coincidence that Cole$ was nothing but an average receiver at best until Pennington took over the team? Ramsey is no Pennington. He's not even a Testaverde at this point. I'd be very surprised if you saw the same type of production from Cole$ without Chad tossing him the rock. No way that guy was worth a $13.5MM bonus.

Also, ever think that Morton's success might be attributed to the best special teams coach in the NFL (Mike Westhoff)? Hell, an obscure WR Craig Yeast was in the top five kickoff returners in the NFL under Westhoff for the Jets before Morton was here. $8.5MM Bonus for a guy that returns kicks??

Please.

Thomas was a good pickup but you overpaid for him too.

THE_SOOTHSAYER wrote:I made a point in the other thread and got absolutely no answeres therefore I'll try again. Any Hogs care to respond?

Do you think it's a coincidence that Cole$ was nothing but an average receiver at best until Pennington took over the team? Ramsey is no Pennington. He's not even a Testaverde at this point. I'd be very surprised if you saw the same type of production from Cole$ without Chad tossing him the rock. No way that guy was worth a $13.5MM bonus.

Also, ever think that Morton's success might be attributed to the best special teams coach in the NFL (Mike Westhoff)? Hell, an obscure WR Craig Yeast was in the top five kickoff returners in the NFL under Westhoff for the Jets before Morton was here. $8.5MM Bonus for a guy that returns kicks??

Please.

Thomas was a good pickup but you overpaid for him too.

I believe that the west coast offense suited Pennington much better than Vinny, not to mention Chad and LC were backups together and had a good number of reps on second string in camps and such. Chad was a 70%+ passer in college in Marshall throwing in much the same system.

The thing of it is, Spurrier's system isn't much different than the west coast. The primary difference seems to be a larger amount of timing with Spurrier and the way they want the QBs to read the defense.

I have watched Coles and Jacobs and Gardener get some great passes from Ramsey. He is a very good QB that hasn't had realization yet due to the revolving door of QBs last season and a porous OL that allowed too many people to come through the OG spots on either side. That has been corrected. I think Ramsey will start to come into his own, and whether he plays a good game or not vs. the Jets, I do believe he has franchise type talent. I do think you have to surround the man with talented WR and we did so. The WR corps last year sucked, and we have replaced most of them.

I don't believe that your special teams coach taught Morton speed, agility and vision. Maybe he is a great coach, and I have no reason to doubt that, but even a bad returner will make a good coach look bad.

Yes, Thomas was a good pickup - probably one you all will regret losing as I pointed out and got no answer to on another thread - your RG and RT are no namers and I think you all know it. Your line depth is very shallow and if Fabini or Mawae go down you are in real trouble.

how many seasons did coles play with the jets before, as per your claim, Pennington came and made him a better player? all you have to do is watch his progress from his rookie year. now regarding morton, we know he's going to be much more than a kick returner. now if according to you morton is merely a kick returner, why did jets have to fight so much to retain him?

sir smizzy, now i can only chuckle at your comment that steinbrenner is a better businessman than snyder. thats one of the funnier statements i've heard in recent memory. last i knew skins are still the highest valued nfl franchise.

of course we "lured" coles from your team. you can all claim that that grape has turned sour now that it is unreachable for you. it was one of the smartest decisions to sign coles. may i refresh your memory that despite having a chequered college career and questions about his off-field behavior coles was actually drafted in the 3rd round by jets. that says how much they valued his skills. since then i really don't know of *one* situation to this date when he has acted in a way that has led anyone to question his off-field behavior. all i've ever read about him is how disciplined and driven he is and how he inspires the entire team with his work ethic and performance. after all, your own coach and team voted coles as the MVP over and above the "best passer of NFL" last year who you claim has made coles appear better than he 'actually' is. sorry, i'd advise you to seriously reconsider your position. now that you've brought this up, should i wonder if it is actually the other way round?

i feel that this offseason, snyder made smart and strategic business moves that make tremendous sense. he *is* a smart businessman and a creative one too. there's no loss for you in admitting this.

now all this talk about loyalty for the team etc. is plain gibberish. personally i think we have no business talking about a player's loyalty to his team, particularly at the time when teams throw that word and all its meaning completely out of the window in trimming their rosters to 53. bet they don't do it on the basis of loyalty! football is business and the more we admit it, the more we can enjoy it.

btw, are the answers serious enough for you?

Skins fans, there's a couple of things you are learning about Jet fans. First they are complete idiots. Second they are the leagues biggest bandwagoners. Third they are the leagues biggest homers. Quote from Soothsayer is aperfect example. Last year while Coles was a Jet, Soothsayer and all the idiot Jet fans thought he was the best in the NFL Now that Dan Snyder raped the Jets roster, they all think Coles,along with Morton are overrated. They say Snyder overpaid for them. They need to look in the mirror. They gave up 2 first round picks and a third round pick for Robertson and paid him a ton of money. Robertson has been a complete BUST. So far in 5 preseason games, he has a grand total of 3 tackles. lololololololol
Don't forget to visit the Jets messageboard after the Redskins b!tchslap the Jets thursday night. Can you say payback?

Soothsayer says:
Do you think it's a coincidence that Cole$ was nothing but an average receiver at best until Pennington took over the team? Ramsey is no Pennington. He's not even a Testaverde at this point. I'd be very surprised if you saw the same type of production from Cole$ without Chad tossing him the rock. No way that guy was worth a $13.5MM bonus.

learnnew wrote:sir smizzy, now i can only chuckle at your comment that steinbrenner is a better businessman than snyder. thats one of the funnier statements i've heard in recent memory. last i knew skins are still the highest valued nfl franchise.

Are you sure about that?last time i looked george owned the NY YANKEES?are you compairing the skins to the yanks?

of course we "lured" coles from your team. you can all claim that that grape has turned sour now that it is unreachable for you. it was one of the smartest decisions to sign coles.

Yes it was,but was it smart to pay him that much?that's still to be seen.

i feel that this offseason, snyder made smart and strategic business moves that make tremendous sense. he *is* a smart businessman and a creative one too. there's no loss for you in admitting this.

He is a great buisness man....the kind of guy who goes out and get's it done..the kinda guy who does'nt need any immediate return from his hugh investments.

now all this talk about loyalty for the team etc. is plain gibberish. personally i think we have no business talking about a player's loyalty to his team, particularly at the time when teams throw that word and all its meaning completely out of the window in trimming their rosters to 53. bet they don't do it on the basis of loyalty! football is business and the more we admit it, the more we can enjoy it.

Did you even read my post?I said loyality in professional sports is dead...on all sides.

btw, are the answers serious enough for you?

You totally ingonred my question..... anybody else care to actully read my post,then comment on it?

There was an interesting article in todays New York Times, where Ernie Accorsi was quoted as saying (and I paraphrase here) that you build around QB's and D-Linemen, and that wide recievers are replaceable. So there's at least two GMs that agree on that point.

Coles is a good WR. Possibly a great WR. But worth a 13 million signing bonus? No way. In the modern NFL, with a salary cap, everything is relative.

SirSmizzy wrote:Are you redskin fans not worried about the decision's to bring in all these Free Agent's and Giving such hugh Bonus?

Whats your cap situation like?Seriously.

Are you worried that you will losse either Arrington or Bailey....can you sign them both?

I'd love to see someone answer those questions honestly, in the interest of debate.

we have our QB thank you. we did build around him this time, as far as i can see. players are paid by teams based on their perceived worth. sir smizzy's first question about *huge* signing bonus is a relative comment because he believes that we overpaid those people. i don't think so. so i thought i'd remind you guys about the players' value not only as we see it, but as you guys saw it before they became sour grapes in your eyes because of your inability to keep them.

your comment about loyalty would have been complete with a *sigh* and that would befit the sour-grapes attitude you guys have taken towards those players since they became skins. that was the idea behind my response.

regarding our salary cap situation, the front office has said they can keep this team intact for the next 3 years. i believe that'd mean signing bailey. now after three years, what would happen to arrington? i think he will still be a skin.

so i think we can sign both bailey and arrington. but who am i to make that statement? let us see how it all plays out. if we end up signing both, great! if not, and some other teams sign them up, i am most definitely not the one to claim that they were overrated. i'd never do that to a player who has only been sincere and has produced not only his personal best but one of the league's best. if we lose them, it'd be a tough loss yes, but not something that'd make us the next bengals. no player is so invincible, and i say this with all due respect to bailey and arrington, that a team would be crippled forever without him. we believe we have enough talent in the team, in the coaching staff and in the office to take on any situation. saying anything more than that would only be speculation right now.

learnnew wrote:we have our QB thank you. we did build around him this time, as far as i can see. players are paid by teams based on their perceived worth. sir smizzy's first question about *huge* signing bonus is a relative comment because he believes that we overpaid those people. i don't think so.

This is not how the rest of the world see's it.Everybody think's you over paid...you have to say this...you have no choice now.

so i thought i'd remind you guys about the players' value not only as we see it, but as you guys saw it before they became sour grapes in your eyes because of your inability to keep them.

did you think coles was worth that much when he was a jet?didnt think so.

regarding our salary cap situation, the front office has said they can keep this team intact for the next 3 years. i believe that'd mean signing bailey. now after three years, what would happen to arrington? i think he will still be a skin.
so i think we can sign both bailey and arrington. but who am i to make that statement? let us see how it all plays out. if we end up signing both, great! if not, and some other teams sign them up, i am most definitely not the one to claim that they were overrated. i'd never do that to a player who has only been sincere and has produced not only his personal best but one of the league's best. if we lose them, it'd be a tough loss yes, but not something that'd make us the next bengals. no player is so invincible, and i say this with all due respect to bailey and arrington, that a team would be crippled forever without him. we believe we have enough talent in the team, in the coaching staff and in the office to take on any situation. saying anything more than that would only be speculation right now.

You giving your opinion of what the cap situation MIGHT BE is not good enough for me.sorry....try finding the #'s and letting me know.


Does anybody else care to give it a try besides steve spurrier's best friend from gainsville fl?

Look, if Snyder is going to pay 5 bazzilion bucks to his coach, don't you think he's going to give him the toys to see if his system is successful? Spurrier needs speed, this is why Davis left, not due to salary cap issues - Davis, who is awesome, did not fit here. Trung is probably better for us. We now have speed at all the skilled positions. Say what you like about Snyder - he has now given Spurrier everything he has asked for to give his system a try - there are no more excuses...

Here's how I see the offseason Jets raid moves, and I saw about a third of the redskins practices, so I have some face time in watching these guys:

Coles: He's flat out awesome. He has shown it in preseason games and in practice and is systematically winning over most of the sports writers in thinking his deal was fair. Sure Snyder had to do a high signing bonus to make sure your cheapy FO wouldn't follow up. Coles has taken it as a personal affront that people think he's not worth the money. Mark my words - I see pro-bowl written all over this guy for years to come...

Hall: In the many practices I saw, I only saw Hall miss twice. He hit over 30 in a row in one practice. Now I didn't watch Jets games, so I haven't seen him in a real game, but I can tell you, I've seen our previous kickers practice and they couldn't hit 3 in a row! If you have any understanding of how many games we have lost due to our kickers in the last 3 years you would KNOW we did not overpay for this guy.

Morton: Again, this guy looks AWESOME in practice. Look for him to be our 3rd down back and TERRIFIC special teams person. Your FO would have matched if they were smart enough to read properly. I think we can both agree he is worth it.

Thomas: Haven't seen enough of him. From what I've seen, I'm undecided - he looks great on running plays but has made some mistakes on pass coverage. I hope he is worth it.

Are these good acquisitions if it means losing other quality players? God, I hope we don't lose Champ, I KNOW LaVar is here to stay. We will see, but one of the great things about having an owner who is willing to pay means we will not be "cheaped" out of these players, unlike your FO.

I never understood this ever,people from other teams are always asking if we are mad about Dan Snyder paying what ever he pays people.Why would I care what HE does with HIS own money?So what let him pay what ever he wants it's not your money,right?I mean we're talkin about millionaires.As long as we dont go over the salary cap who cares.And even if we do he'll pay the money not us.well maybe the season ticket holders but they can afford it!

redskinfan wrote:I never understood this ever,people from other teams are always asking if we are mad about Dan Snyder paying what ever he pays people.Why would I care what HE does with HIS own money?So what let him pay what ever he wants it's not your money,right?I mean we're talkin about millionaires.As long as we dont go over the salary cap who cares.And even if we do he'll pay the money not us.well maybe the season ticket holders but they can afford it!

Cuz the money he spent on all thos ehigh priced vets who are'nt there anymore is gonna catch up with your team.Remember the cowboys?of course they paid all that money and actully won a superbowl you however are just playoff pretenders.

The money from those players is leaving this year or the next I think. It already hurt us, but that was something Marty largely dealt with. The question is whether the players on this team with salary bonuses (Coles, Thomas and others) will affect future signings (Champ and LaVar). Hopefully we can overcome them. Also, hopefully we will find what many of the Jets players are saying to be true - that we in fact got the cream of your team and that these guys will really help us win!

Hey skinsfanno9 - do you remember the purge not just last year when we brought in all of those CHEAP Florida players but the year before when Marty purged the high priced nothings Snyder brought in? Seems to me I remember something about sportswriters talking about how we went from being one of the highest payroll teams to one of the lowest. Yet all these Wets fans can talk about is how much we paid out in 2001 and 2002 when it isn't true.

Another misquoted fact by the smack talking no fact Jet fan club

Are you redskin fans not worried about the decision's to bring in all these Free Agent's and Giving such hugh Bonus?

I'm certainly not worried--I think the FO has done a magnificent job of sorting through any cap implications and making all the contracts cap-friendly. I wish I had the figures, but I've read a couple of cap experts who agree that the team really can be together for the next three years (yes, with Champ and with LaVar).

So much money to player who just the year before were just above average..

But who is very ready to bust out into an All-Pro career. The Jets themselves tried to get him to re-sign at the last minute by offering a $10 million SB. Look at it this way--we offered an extra three million in signing bonus dollars to ensure the Jets wouldn't be able to get him. That's not a major cap hit spread over five years. And I've seen nothing to indicate that he isn't worth every penny--he's elevated the play of our other WRs, caught everything that has come near him, and been an exemplary team player. As long as we aren't in cap trouble--and we aren't--and have the players we want--and we do--I'm happy to pay whatever players and the FO can agree on.

Think on this, too--if we had opted to go for Rogers or Johnson in the first round of the draft (no doubt giving up picks to move up), we would have paid them a $14.4 million signing bonus ($54.6 million total contract/6 years) or $13.5 million SB ($39 million total contract/6 years) respectively, on top of those lost draft picks. And all that for potential. In LC, we know we got value--'cause we know the man can play. The Lions and Texans can only hope that their guys can play as well as LC--we don't have that worry.

Honestly, I'd rather pay the big bucks to a guy who we know can produce rather than one who happened to be drafted high but has never done a thing on an NFL field. That's why I'm all for fixed rookie contracts, but that's a whole different thread.

This is how Dan Snyder does buisness....

This is how every owner who can do it, does business. . . .

Now with champ turning down this GIANT offer

We sure don't know that yet--we're waiting for a counteroffer. It's the norm in negotiations like this.

,you have to be worried that the player are now demanding what they want...

Hardly--we gave him a fair opening offer, and now we're waiting for his camp. We certainly didn't blink when Daryl Gardener or Dan Wilkinson tried to stare us down. We'll negotiate in good faith with Champ just like we did with them. But if, in the end, he opts to go elsewhere after a fair offer, that's his right--it's what FA is all about.

Whats your cap situation like?Seriously.

Seriously? We currently have several million dollars of cap space (which we will probably use for Champ to sweeten his up-front money, assuming we sign him). And my understanding--though I am no cap expert--is that as long as we structure our big contracts right, we shouldn't have problems in the future either. That's the honest truth--I haven't heard of any issues! (And I am Newshog--my tentacles are in all media. )

Are you worried that you will losse either Arrington or Bailey....can you sign them both?

Nope, unless they just opt to go elsewhere after a fair offer from us. I'm actually more worried that we might be tempted to give them too much. And so far, our FO has shown every sign of maturing, so that's less of a worry than it would have been in, say, 2001. Yes, we can indeed sign them both if the contracts are structured right.

Only thing fans need to worry about is getting good seats and tickets. Dont worry about Redskins we are alright. Fortune 500 ranked us number one. Dummies as far as being a better business man that is subjective. At 37 years of age Dan Snyder owns his own team.


I really think Jets fans make stupid commints to pick our brain on what went wrong with their ORG.


Win a couple more superbowl then come and Holla!!!

Oh, and as far as Dan Snyder's savvy as a businessman, I give you this from the Washington Times on Aug. 29:

The Washington Redskins' economic march into the record books continued yesterday as Forbes Magazine estimated the team's value at $952 million, 13 percent higher than a year ago and another all-time high for American sports.

The Redskins topped the closely watched Forbes list for the fourth consecutive year, easily outdistancing second place Dallas, worth an estimated $851 million.

British soccer power Manchester United briefly hit $1 billion total stock value five years ago but now stands nowhere near that mark.

The New York Yankees are the most valuable baseball team according to Forbes at $849 million.

Note that difference between the Redskins and the Yankees, my New York friends.

LOL LOL LOL LOl LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Mr. Smizzy,

Regarding overpaying Coles, Morton, Hall and Thomas, here is what Jets players have to say:

"I'm not mad at them at all, honestly. They did what they had to do," defensive tackle Jason Ferguson told reporters in New York yesterday. "But, man, the Redskins did a good job of getting all our key players."

"Heavens no," Edwards said in a conference call with Washington area reporters. "I don't hold grudges against people. The Redskins did nothing wrong. They went after good players. We happened to have four of them, and they got them. And that's good for them."

Now you determine how you rate your own team!

I hear crickets, chirping.

Crispus Attucks wrote:Jet fans thought he was the best in the NFL

Now I'm not gonna try to tell you he was average, but he only made the Pro Bowl after others bailed on the flight. There's no way he's the best in the NFL and noone except Snyder would ever be stupid enough to think so. Don't feel so bad about your beating thursday, hoggettes. We started out bad last year and our season turned out OK. Well, then again, you don't have a motivator like Herm, do ya?

We have homers on our board, too.

But, you guys rival Dolphin fans in your delusions. I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading here.

Fortunately for you, reality will have begun to set in two days from now. Washington is a bad team. Coles, etc. weren't worth the money.

Speaking of Superbowls how many have the Jets won, Mr Sportwriter?


Its funny how the Jet fans are so concerned with our team!