The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

With all these teams in particular arizona now without an RB an Chris Johnson a likely hold out for a long time shouldn't we try and trade Royster, Droughn, or Torain for either a pick or a backup DE

Torrain has no trade value because he is always hurt. Royster is a candidate for our practice squad and other teams now this so they could put a claim in for him.

I don't know that we have any RB that would carry much trade value, but it might not hurt. We do seem to have plenty of them. I wouldn't mind if we put out some feelers for Royster or Torain; I think the combo of Hightower/Helu, with the former getting the majority of carries, will work just fine.

BigRedskinDaddy wrote:I don't know that we have any RB that would carry much trade value, but it might not hurt. We do seem to have plenty of them. I wouldn't mind if we put out some feelers for Royster or Torain; I think the combo of Hightower/Helu, with the former getting the majority of carries, will work just fine.

Exactly, for a low round draft pick sure we'd trade them over cutting them if we can but we're not going to do that until we know for sure who we want. I'm not so sure we can anyway with the number of players who are about to be cut, I'd think teams would want to force us to keep someone to trade them, but then we have to cut someone else. It's easy to say, hard to pull off.

No one wants our crap RB's either...

Sure Torain has trade value. All you have to do is add the word "conditional" and that takes care of getting stiffed if he gets hurt. As far as as him getting hurt, look at who (other teams) you have now and ask is Torain better than what I have and better than what's out there. If the answer is yes, you take the risk with a conditional pick.

I like the potential of our RBs but I am no where near thinking we have tradable players at that position.

Let's keep Hightower, Torain, Helu and try to improve.

Fred

fredp45 wrote:I like the potential of our RBs but I am no where near thinking we have tradable players at that position.

Let's keep Hightower, Torain, Helu and try to improve.

Fred

I'd keep Hightower, Helu & Royster with Torain on IR.

yupchagee wrote:

fredp45 wrote:I like the potential of our RBs but I am no where near thinking we have tradable players at that position.

Let's keep Hightower, Torain, Helu and try to improve.

Fred

I'd keep Hightower, Helu & Royster with Torain on IR.

Problem with IR for Torain is he is healthy and cleared to proactice, but if you are predicting that he will get hurt on Thursday then you are right on.

No. Why? Injuries change everything. The Cardinals traded Hightower thinking Williams would be the guy. Now they probably wish they still had Hightower. #fail

The Hogster wrote:No. Why? Injuries change everything. The Cardinals traded Hightower thinking Williams would be the guy. Now they probably wish they still had Hightower. #fail

Here's the situation, Hogster. It is believed that we will keep three running backs and one or two fullbacks.

Talking about running backs here

Hightower and Helu are in as two of the three running back positions.
Hightower is the starter
Helu has gotten a loooong look - why? IMO, to see if he can be the #2.
Helu has shown that he can, IMO.

Now, who is #3?

Committee of three RBs won't work

We all know that Torain is capable of being a #1 back.
It would be a waste with him being #3. Ifhe got carries, it would shortchange Hightower not to give him his 15 to 20 touches or more.
It would short change Helu to not give him his touches in spelling Hightower.

Hightower and Helu can take it to the house - the more touches the more chances that they can take it to the house. Torain cannot.

Royster vs. Torain

Royster can play in this system. He can match Torain in speed which is none in NFL running back standards. He can match Torain out of the backfield. Both are forward runners. Where Torain has him beat is power, but Royster has more wiggle and can get yards. Neither are good blitz pick up guys, but the edge goes to Torain. BUT Royster can play special teams and Royster has no injury history in college. Torain had injury history in college and it followed him to the pros.

Keep Royster over Torain

I like Torain. I rather Torain than Royster, but a three back committee will not be good for Hightower and Helu. Also in the long run, Royster will improve and I believe become a back as productive as Torain. If history serves well, Royster will be around for a lot longer than Torain.

Trade Torain

There has got to be a suitor for Torain - Cardnals are a likely choice escpecially since he went to Arizona could help sell some tickets there. All the Cardinals have t do is make it a conditional pick or simple give us our conditional pick back that we gave for Hightower. Also, Torain is scheduled to make less than $500,000 this year. He won't hurt anyone's cap.

Draughn

Also, I haven't counted Draughn out yet, he has yet to be featured, if he will be featured at all, it remains to be seen, but he seems to have the power that Torain has and can be on the PS and brought up if someone is hurt.

Summary

That is why you trade Torain. Otherwise, you expose Royster to the waiver wire to get him to the practice squad. I don't believe Royster will sit against TB. I think that he will play to help Shanny decide what to do.

Why trade for a running back you know the team will have to cut in a week or so? Offer nothing and wait for them to hit the waiver wire.

Bob 0119 wrote:Why trade for a running back you know the team will have to cut in a week or so? Offer nothing and wait for them to hit the waiver wire.

There is no guarantee a team can get a specific person off the waiver wire. If there is another team with a worse record last year, they would have first dibs.

Trade Hightower back to them for a first round pick. Can you imagine that?

Of course I'm only kidding.

Red_One43 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:No. Why? Injuries change everything. The Cardinals traded Hightower thinking Williams would be the guy. Now they probably wish they still had Hightower. #fail

Here's the situation, Hogster. It is believed that we will keep three running backs and one or two fullbacks.

Talking about running backs here

Hightower and Helu are in as two of the three running back positions.
Hightower is the starter
Helu has gotten a loooong look - why? IMO, to see if he can be the #2.
Helu has shown that he can, IMO.

Now, who is #3?

Committee of three RBs won't work

We all know that Torain is capable of being a #1 back.
It would be a waste with him being #3. Ifhe got carries, it would shortchange Hightower not to give him his 15 to 20 touches or more.
It would short change Helu to not give him his touches in spelling Hightower.

Hightower and Helu can take it to the house - the more touches the more chances that they can take it to the house. Torain cannot.

Royster vs. Torain

Royster can play in this system. He can match Torain in speed which is none in NFL running back standards. He can match Torain out of the backfield. Both are forward runners. Where Torain has him beat is power, but Royster has more wiggle and can get yards. Neither are good blitz pick up guys, but the edge goes to Torain. BUT Royster can play special teams and Royster has no injury history in college. Torain had injury history in college and it followed him to the pros.

Keep Royster over Torain

I like Torain. I rather Torain than Royster, but a three back committee will not be good for Hightower and Helu. Also in the long run, Royster will improve and I believe become a back as productive as Torain. If history serves well, Royster will be around for a lot longer than Torain.

Trade Torain

There has got to be a suitor for Torain - Cardnals are a likely choice escpecially since he went to Arizona could help sell some tickets there. All the Cardinals have t do is make it a conditional pick or simple give us our conditional pick back that we gave for Hightower. Also, Torain is scheduled to make less than $500,000 this year. He won't hurt anyone's cap.

Draughn

Also, I haven't counted Draughn out yet, he has yet to be featured, if he will be featured at all, it remains to be seen, but he seems to have the power that Torain has and can be on the PS and brought up if someone is hurt.

Summary

That is why you trade Torain. Otherwise, you expose Royster to the waiver wire to get him to the practice squad. I don't believe Royster will sit against TB. I think that he will play to help Shanny decide what to do.

So, you're entire argument is that you trade Torain because you don't want 3 really good running backs? Instead, you want 1 really good one, and 2 rookies who you think will be really good?

You're severely over estimating Torain's trade value for one. You're also doing a lot of rote speculation about Royster. He's looked good in PRESEASON. Remember Marcus Mason??

You don't trade away Torain for Royster to have a chance to fight for 3rd string carries. Keep the best 3 RBs. Right now that is Hightower, Helu & Torain. The waiver process is part of the NFL.

The Hogster wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:No. Why? Injuries change everything. The Cardinals traded Hightower thinking Williams would be the guy. Now they probably wish they still had Hightower. #fail

Here's the situation, Hogster. It is believed that we will keep three running backs and one or two fullbacks.

Talking about running backs here

Hightower and Helu are in as two of the three running back positions.
Hightower is the starter
Helu has gotten a loooong look - why? IMO, to see if he can be the #2.
Helu has shown that he can, IMO.

Now, who is #3?

Committee of three RBs won't work

We all know that Torain is capable of being a #1 back.
It would be a waste with him being #3. Ifhe got carries, it would shortchange Hightower not to give him his 15 to 20 touches or more.
It would short change Helu to not give him his touches in spelling Hightower.

Hightower and Helu can take it to the house - the more touches the more chances that they can take it to the house. Torain cannot.

Royster vs. Torain

Royster can play in this system. He can match Torain in speed which is none in NFL running back standards. He can match Torain out of the backfield. Both are forward runners. Where Torain has him beat is power, but Royster has more wiggle and can get yards. Neither are good blitz pick up guys, but the edge goes to Torain. BUT Royster can play special teams and Royster has no injury history in college. Torain had injury history in college and it followed him to the pros.

Keep Royster over Torain

I like Torain. I rather Torain than Royster, but a three back committee will not be good for Hightower and Helu. Also in the long run, Royster will improve and I believe become a back as productive as Torain. If history serves well, Royster will be around for a lot longer than Torain.

Trade Torain

There has got to be a suitor for Torain - Cardnals are a likely choice escpecially since he went to Arizona could help sell some tickets there. All the Cardinals have t do is make it a conditional pick or simple give us our conditional pick back that we gave for Hightower. Also, Torain is scheduled to make less than $500,000 this year. He won't hurt anyone's cap.

Draughn

Also, I haven't counted Draughn out yet, he has yet to be featured, if he will be featured at all, it remains to be seen, but he seems to have the power that Torain has and can be on the PS and brought up if someone is hurt.

Summary

That is why you trade Torain. Otherwise, you expose Royster to the waiver wire to get him to the practice squad. I don't believe Royster will sit against TB. I think that he will play to help Shanny decide what to do.

So, you're entire argument is that you trade Torain because you don't want 3 really good running backs? Instead, you want 1 really good one, and 2 rookies who you think will be really good?

You're severely over estimating Torain's trade value for one. You're also doing a lot of rote speculation about Royster. He's looked good in PRESEASON. Remember Marcus Mason??

You don't trade away Torain for Royster to have a chance to fight for 3rd string carries. Keep the best 3 RBs. Right now that is Hightower, Helu & Torain. The waiver process is part of the NFL.

Just to pile on, I think Torain (when and if healthy) is far and away the most powerful of the set, and has demonstrated some ability to get tough yards in a short yardage situation... makes him the best choice for 3rd and 1 in a must have situation... (fully understanding that those are the exact situations where he is most likely to demonstrate his well known fragility)

Red_One43 wrote:it would shortchange Hightower not to give him his 15 to 20 touches or more.

There was an article in another thread that said Hightower has only had that many touches a couple games in his entire career.

The Hogster wrote: The waiver process is part of the NFL.

This process will be different this year because of the lock out.

Last year there were 3 cut down dates with rosters going from

80 to 75, 75 to 65 then 65 to the final 53.

Under those rules most PS players were released during the cut down from 75 to 65 if they wanted to sneak a player on to the PS. They've already cleared waivers by the time the final cuts are made. PS are formed the day after the final cuts.

Now there are only two cuts but they start with 90 on the roster and go down to 80 then to the final 53.

So just like the overstocked free agency/feeding frenzy after the lock out ended, Teams will have a part II, with 32 teams going from 80 to 53 that's almost 900 newly available players (some will have been cut for cap reasons, some caught in the numbers game, those that are headed to practice squads, plus the over the hill and over their head players).

It might get wild all over again for some teams...

1niksder wrote:Now there are only two cuts but they start with 90 on the roster and go down to 80 then to the final 53.

What are the dates for those cuts?

Deadskins wrote:

1niksder wrote:Now there are only two cuts but they start with 90 on the roster and go down to 80 then to the final 53.

What are the dates for those cuts?

4PM tomorrow and 4PM this Sat.

Players can be signed to the PS starting Sunday evening

atlskins wrote:With all these teams in particular arizona now without an RB an Chris Johnson a likely hold out for a long time shouldn't we try and trade Royster, Droughn, or Torain for either a pick or a backup DE

A couple of things....

1. We have a very solid of group of running backs. However, as individual players I don't think that any are all that marketable in a trade.

2. Hightower has never really been a featured back and Torrain is unfortunately a pretty significant injury risk. Therefore, depth is likely going to be very important for us and I'd guess that 3-4 backs are going to end up getting significant carries over the course of the season.

The Hogster wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:No. Why? Injuries change everything. The Cardinals traded Hightower thinking Williams would be the guy. Now they probably wish they still had Hightower. #fail

Here's the situation, Hogster. It is believed that we will keep three running backs and one or two fullbacks.

Talking about running backs here

Hightower and Helu are in as two of the three running back positions.
Hightower is the starter
Helu has gotten a loooong look - why? IMO, to see if he can be the #2.
Helu has shown that he can, IMO.

Now, who is #3?

Committee of three RBs won't work

We all know that Torain is capable of being a #1 back.
It would be a waste with him being #3. Ifhe got carries, it would shortchange Hightower not to give him his 15 to 20 touches or more.
It would short change Helu to not give him his touches in spelling Hightower.

Hightower and Helu can take it to the house - the more touches the more chances that they can take it to the house. Torain cannot.

Royster vs. Torain

Royster can play in this system. He can match Torain in speed which is none in NFL running back standards. He can match Torain out of the backfield. Both are forward runners. Where Torain has him beat is power, but Royster has more wiggle and can get yards. Neither are good blitz pick up guys, but the edge goes to Torain. BUT Royster can play special teams and Royster has no injury history in college. Torain had injury history in college and it followed him to the pros.

Keep Royster over Torain

I like Torain. I rather Torain than Royster, but a three back committee will not be good for Hightower and Helu. Also in the long run, Royster will improve and I believe become a back as productive as Torain. If history serves well, Royster will be around for a lot longer than Torain.

Trade Torain

There has got to be a suitor for Torain - Cardnals are a likely choice escpecially since he went to Arizona could help sell some tickets there. All the Cardinals have t do is make it a conditional pick or simple give us our conditional pick back that we gave for Hightower. Also, Torain is scheduled to make less than $500,000 this year. He won't hurt anyone's cap.

Draughn

Also, I haven't counted Draughn out yet, he has yet to be featured, if he will be featured at all, it remains to be seen, but he seems to have the power that Torain has and can be on the PS and brought up if someone is hurt.

Summary

That is why you trade Torain. Otherwise, you expose Royster to the waiver wire to get him to the practice squad. I don't believe Royster will sit against TB. I think that he will play to help Shanny decide what to do.

Hogster wrote:

So, you're entire argument is that you trade Torain because you don't want 3 really good running backs? Instead, you want 1 really good one, and 2 rookies who you think will be really good?

I am basing my argument that I belive that Helu has won the second back position based on him getting all the carries after Hightower in the Ravens game. Shanny gave him all the carries to take a real good look at him for being #2 and reports have said that Helu is progressing on bilitz pick up a weakness of Torain.

Shanny showed last year that he is not afraid to give the ball to a rookie, Keiland Williams. One strength attributed Royster is he rarely makes mistakes. That is a plus for a rookie. Also third backs play special teams. If in fact Helu is #2, then the edge goes to Royster because he can play teams.

You're severely over estimating Torain's trade value for one. You're also doing a lot of rote speculation about Royster. He's looked good in PRESEASON. Remember Marcus Mason??

Only teams like the Cardinals know the true worth of a back like Torain who is good enough to be a number 1 or split carries. Torain shows power, can catch and is a forward runner. Shanny has had a lot of success trading runners who have looked good for him.

By Jayson Braddock
NFL Scout

Mike acquired Roy Helu Jr. and Evan Royster in the draft; this to go along with Ryan Torain, who he drafted in Denver and became a household name in 2010. Shanahan also has other ideal zone running backs in Keiland Williams, James Davis, and Andre Brown.

You best believe that you’ll be hearing some of these names involved in trades in the near future. It will more than likely be the most successful of these running backs and they’ll be traded for instant upgrades to other weaknesses on the Redskins team

Tatum Bell - 1,000 yard rusher - traded by Shanny
Reuben Droughns - 1,000 rusher - traded by Shanny

http://thexlog.com/201105091048/xtra-po ... his-teams/

I am not basing my specualtion on preseason yardage that Royster gained against Pitt. Royster has more upside that Mason. They are similar runners with no speed but wiggle in their step, but Royster, can catch, is a forward runner and most important of all, a one cut runner, perfect for Shanny. Mason's downfall was his inability to pick up the blitz which will be Roysters if he isn't makeing progress. He will get his chance on Thursday, but also remember, practice plays a heavy role in deciding whether or not to keep a player. Games just allow the coach to see if a guy can do in the game what he practices.

You don't trade away Torain for Royster to have a chance to fight for 3rd string carries.

True, you trade away Torain only if Helu is #2 and Royster earns the #3 spot. No way Royster beats out Torain. I stated above why you keep Royster over Torain, if he has proven that he will develop into a good back for this system.

Keep the best 3 RBs. Right now that is Hightower, Helu & Torain. The waiver process is part of the NFL.

This not always the case. Special teams often figure in the equations. Again, if you want your third back to play teams- then you try to trade Torain. If Torain moves to # 2 and Helu is # 3 then Helu plays teams and Royster goes through the process. Also, your words, "right now" are key. We still have two practices and a game to decide who is best for the future of this team.

Again, Hogster, this is pure speculation based on what I have seen and read. This is my answer, for now, for the title question of this thread. Come Thursday, night, I will relook at my thoughts and might change it on based on what I see and what I read coming from camp reports. I wouldn't bet on what I am saying here especially before the game. Also, there is the possiblity that Shanny keeps 4 backs or that Royster plays well again on Thursday and a team inquirers about him.

Deadskins wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:it would shortchange Hightower not to give him his 15 to 20 touches or more.

There was an article in another thread that said Hightower has only had that many touches a couple games in his entire career.

Hightower is believed to be in the right scheme for his talents. Shanny didn't hint at a running back by committee. He hinted strongly that you should put your money on Hightower starting. If he doesn't catch fumbilities or gets slowed by injuries, he should routinely carry the ball that much in what looks like is going to be a run oriented offense.

Bob 0119 wrote:Why trade for a running back you know the team will have to cut in a week or so? Offer nothing and wait for them to hit the waiver wire.

Bob, do you remember Justin Tryon? The Colts traded for him jsut before the final cut deadline. Most likely, he would have been cut.

Like rick301 said there is no guarantee a team can get their guy on waivers unless they have first choice.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

atlskins wrote:With all these teams in particular arizona now without an RB an Chris Johnson a likely hold out for a long time shouldn't we try and trade Royster, Droughn, or Torain for either a pick or a backup DE

A couple of things....

1. We have a very solid of group of running backs. However, as individual players I don't think that any are all that marketable in a trade.

2. Hightower has never really been a featured back and Torrain is unfortunately a pretty significant injury risk. Therefore, depth is likely going to be very important for us and I'd guess that 3-4 backs are going to end up getting significant carries over the course of the season.

If Shanny keeps four backs, then I would say that Torain will not be traded. Since it looks like we will be running a lot, you are probably right about 3-4 backs getting their carries.

Another thought on four backs

If Keiland Williams (awfully quiet in camp) is working out as a full back, he can also be that fourth tailback. If that happens to be the case, then Torain or Royster would have to go. I don't see Shanny outright releasing Torain. If he cannot be traded, because there is no suitor or because they aren't giving enough. Royster would be the odd man out. IMO.