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Kickoffs
Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:58 pm
by Cappster
After seeing a few kickoffs with matching touchbacks, I think the NFL is going to have to push the ball back from the current kickoff spot before the regular season starts. I never realized how important action is on kickoffs before witnessing the dull factor tonight. On a redskins note, if Brandon Banks cannot return kickoffs then he won't be needed on the team. Actually, quite a few guys will be looking to prove themselves on kickoffs, but as it looks so far, they are going to have to find other means to do so.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:20 am
by 1niksder
That's what I been trying to told y'all
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:53 am
by Chris Luva Luva
They might as well just remove the kick-off altogether. This "injury" crap is just out of hand at this point.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:50 am
by Cappster
Knowing there is going to be a touchback to start the game is like building up with excitement to go on a ride and the stupid thing stalls. Fully deflating the anticipation.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:26 am
by Red_One43
1niksder wrote:That's what I been trying to told y'all
Yes you did!
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:37 am
by Red_One43
Only 1 of 7 kick-off in the Raven/Eagles game was returned. It was returned 26 yards by the Ravens. The next kick by the Eagles was kicked out of the end zone. Boriiiiiing!
Maybe things will change in the regular season. They might not want to get guys hurt in the pre-seaon.
Guys who make the team based on kick-off coverage will be judged on how straight they can line up and how straight they can stay in their lanes and finally on how loud they can grunt running down the field.
Guys on kick off return with be judged on how many guys they don't block and on their hearing - they need to be able to hear the whistle signaling the touchbacks so they don't get a personal foul for a late hit.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:52 pm
by Red_One43
NFL’s new kickoff rule gets rocky reception from fans — and Josh Cribbs
By Cindy Boren
The NFL’s new kickoff rule made its debut with the first preseason games Thursday night and, like all rule changes, it looks a lot different in practical application than it does on paper.
As fans watched the first games with the new rule and reacted in real time on Twitter, the initial reaction was negative. To recap, the rule changes the spot at which kickoffs take place from the 30 to the 35.
“We knew it was going to be a really drastic change,” Cincinnati Bengals Coach Marvin Lewis, a member of the competition committee, told The Post’s Mark Maske when the rule was adopted last spring. “It really caught everybody off guard.”
Coaches weren’t thrilled by the change and Lewis said he understood that, but that safety was the paramount concern.“Sometimes as coaches we need to really take a look at the bigger picture,” Lewis said. “Being on this committee, you take a different look at things.”
Baltimore Ravens Coach John Harbaugh was concerned about giving one side an advantage. “To me, it will swing the balance of the play dramatically to the kickoff team,” Harbaugh, who formerly coached the Philadelphia Eagles’ special teams, said.
It would seem, just from watching the first games, that it will indeed limit kickoff returns. The change, according to Judy Battista of the New York Times, “ensures that even average-strength kickers will now routinely sail kickoffs so deep into the end zone that only the most audacious, or maybe capricious, returner would think to take them out.”
Last year, 16.4 percent of kickoffs resulted in touchbacks, according to the Elias Sports Bureau and estimates this year range from 30 to 50 percent of kickoffs ending up as touchbacks, Battista writes. They may be one of the most exciting parts of the NFL game, but they’re also one of the most dangerous and no one wants to see a catastrophic injury.
Josh Cribbs of the Cleveland Browns, a vocal critic when the change was approved, didn’t like what he saw in Game 1 of the preseason and tweeted: “I see an immediate amendment on the kickoff rule either b4 the end of the year or beginning of next year bc without that part of the return game it might as well be a scrimmage....”
Well, not quite. But it was decidedly weird and raises all sorts of questions. I kicked off a conversation on Twitter by saying that I didn’t care for the change.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ear ... =nl_sports
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:22 pm
by CanesSkins26
I don't want to be too critical of the rule because we don't have the same information on injuries that the competition committee has, but a touchback rate of 30-50 percent is going take a lot of the excitement out of the game and give the kicking team a pretty significant advantage it is has even a decent kicker.
Posted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:37 pm
by 1niksder
CanesSkins26 wrote:I don't want to be too critical of the rule because we don't have the same information on injuries that the competition committee has, but a touchback rate of 30-50 percent is going take a lot of the excitement out of the game and give the kicking team a pretty significant advantage it is has even a decent kicker.
There isn't a kicker in the league that can't put it in the endzone on every kick when they are lining up at the 35. The new rules limit the kicking teams running start to five yards off the ball so I won't be surprised to see a few kick returners bringing it out sooner or later. Especially if these guys are only returning kicks they'll want to show their worth. They're already fast and will be at full speed before the players on the kicking team.
Not knowing the injuries these new rules may be preventing is a good reason to withhold judgement but we do need to see more games to see if this rule was good for the game or not.
In all, there were 51 kickoffs on Thursday night, with 16 touchbacks and 35 returns.
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:25 am
by Red_One43
Red_One43 wrote:1niksder wrote:That's what I been trying to told y'all
Yes you did!
After further revieww...
Looks like the old adage of not returning kicks so many yards deep in the end zone is out the window.
New KO rules and all - Banks manages to keep himself relevant.
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:49 am
by 1niksder
Red_One43 wrote:Red_One43 wrote:1niksder wrote:That's what I been trying to told y'all
Yes you did!
After further revieww...
Looks like the old adage of not returning kicks so many yards deep in the end zone is out the window.
New KO rules and all - Banks manages to keep himself relevant.
Banks and Josh Cribbs must have went to the same kick off return man school. Cribbs says if it's nine yards deep he's coming out... 9 1/2 and he'll have to think about it
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:04 pm
by Irn-Bru
I still think what's going to happen is that we'll get a year or two of near-automatic touchbacks, and then some coaches are going to start tinkering with having the kicker punch it really high in the air for hangtime and having it land near the goal line. Start to cover it almost more like a punt return, with the goal of tackling them inside the 15.
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:42 pm
by Red_One43
Irn-Bru wrote:I still think what's going to happen is that we'll get a year or two of near-automatic touchbacks, and then some coaches are going to start tinkering with having the kicker punch it really high in the air for hangtime and having it land near the goal line. Start to cover it almost more like a punt return, with the goal of tackling them inside the 15.
I wonder if they are not punching it now, to avoid injuries in the preseason.
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:29 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Irn-Bru wrote:I still think what's going to happen is that we'll get a year or two of near-automatic touchbacks, and then some coaches are going to start tinkering with having the kicker punch it really high in the air for hangtime and having it land near the goal line. Start to cover it almost more like a punt return, with the goal of tackling them inside the 15.
I don't think many coaches would do that and risk starting drives from the 40+
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:31 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Red_One43 wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:I still think what's going to happen is that we'll get a year or two of near-automatic touchbacks, and then some coaches are going to start tinkering with having the kicker punch it really high in the air for hangtime and having it land near the goal line. Start to cover it almost more like a punt return, with the goal of tackling them inside the 15.
I wonder if they are not punching it now, to avoid injuries in the preseason.
I would think to avoid injuries in the pre-season they are not starting their key players on special teams. But I doubt they'd not play the subs to get the experience and look for a diamond in the rough. I doubt coaches are wasting any play right now.
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:38 pm
by Red_One43
KazooSkinsFan wrote:Red_One43 wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:I still think what's going to happen is that we'll get a year or two of near-automatic touchbacks, and then some coaches are going to start tinkering with having the kicker punch it really high in the air for hangtime and having it land near the goal line. Start to cover it almost more like a punt return, with the goal of tackling them inside the 15.
I wonder if they are not punching it now, to avoid injuries in the preseason.
I would think to avoid injuries in the pre-season they are not starting their key players on special teams. But I doubt they'd not play the subs to get the experience and look for a diamond in the rough. I doubt coaches are wasting any play right now.
I hear ya, but here's my thinking on it. Once Gano proves he can knock the ball consistently out of the end zone, why not practice pooch kicking in a game situation? Why not get a look at these young guys knocking heads downfield. Though I see the value in the regular season in kicking the ball out of the end zone, I don't see it in pre-season except to avoid injury. Just puzzled about this one. Perhaps game two will see some change of strategy.
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:49 pm
by Countertrey
There may be some merit to testing the techniques in a game situation... otoh, why let them get tape? It has limited utility, as it is a fairly desperate attempt to change the field position battle.
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:54 pm
by 1niksder
Here's another way to do it... until they get caught
The Bears tried two kickoffs from their 30 until the league got word to the officials that all kickoffs have to be at 35.
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2011 7:01 pm
by Countertrey
Can't blame a guy for trying!!
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:06 am
by SkinsJock
It is interesting that kickers that could not kick the ball deep or through the end zone from the 30 are now doing it all the time from the 35 - it's only 5 yards
the NFL does not want to see the KO return game eliminated - special teams (coaches & players) will adapt to this and I think a combination of the weather (later in the year) and the risk reward of having a good return will see more KO returns
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:37 am
by Countertrey
SkinsJock wrote:It is interesting that kickers that could not kick the ball deep or through the end zone from the 30 are now doing it all the time from the 35 - it's only 5 yards
I suspect that the goal was to kick in a manner that the receiver would catch the ball while backpedalling in or towards the endzone, knowing that a certain percentage are going to try bringing the ball out anyway... this creates opportunities to really pin your opponent. Now, however, it's simply easier to drive the ball, knowing that you have an excellent chance for a service ace.
the NFL does not want to see the KO return game eliminated - special teams (coaches & players) will adapt to this and I think a combination of the weather (later in the year) and the risk reward of having a good return will see more KO returns
Of course, they will tinker. This will really limit teams that don't have an explosive KR, and will make the game less interesting, overall... They can't have that.
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:12 pm
by Red_One43
Red_One43 wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:Red_One43 wrote:Irn-Bru wrote:I still think what's going to happen is that we'll get a year or two of near-automatic touchbacks, and then some coaches are going to start tinkering with having the kicker punch it really high in the air for hangtime and having it land near the goal line. Start to cover it almost more like a punt return, with the goal of tackling them inside the 15.
I wonder if they are not punching it now, to avoid injuries in the preseason.
I would think to avoid injuries in the pre-season they are not starting their key players on special teams. But I doubt they'd not play the subs to get the experience and look for a diamond in the rough. I doubt coaches are wasting any play right now.
I hear ya, but here's my thinking on it. Once Gano proves he can knock the ball consistently out of the end zone, why not practice pooch kicking in a game situation? Why not get a look at these young guys knocking heads downfield. Though I see the value in the regular season in kicking the ball out of the end zone, I don't see it in pre-season except to avoid injury. Just puzzled about this one. Perhaps game two will see some change of strategy.
This is what I was getting at:
Bears special teams coach Dave Toub said.
We were just trying to evaluate our kickoff team. You don’t get any evaluation when you kick touchbacks. That’s what preseason is for — it’s about evaluation and finding who can cover kicks. That’s all we were trying to do.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... k-from-30/
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:49 pm
by 1niksder
Red_One43 wrote:This is what I was getting at:
Bears special teams coach Dave Toub said.
We were just trying to evaluate our kickoff team. You don’t get any evaluation when you kick touchbacks. That’s what preseason is for — it’s about evaluation and finding who can cover kicks. That’s all we were trying to do.”
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... k-from-30/
I think that's one of the reasons Shanny will bring in another kicker, someone that can be as accurate as Gano and can also get under the ball.
The opposite of the Gano and the "norm" (generally you want the returner backpedaling), they want to someone that can get some height on the ball forcing the return man to field the ball inside the 5-8 yard line, but also make FGs
Shanny says it's no one out there to challenge Gano "right now"
FTR: Banks said they told him to bring it out if it was catch-able. that shows confidence in the return-man and the offensive scheme.
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:04 pm
by langleyparkjoe
You know what urked my nerves, Akers is out west somewhere now. Akers is a real good kicker, he was a free agent I believe?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:53 pm
by Red_One43
langleyparkjoe wrote:You know what urked my nerves, Akers is out west somewhere now. Akers is a real good kicker, he was a free agent I believe?
49ers signed 36-year old kicker David Akers to a 3-year deal