The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Another good character guy it seems.

“I had Da’Quan on my team for three years and if anybody took all the accolades it was him,” Jenkins told reporters on April 29, the day he was drafted. “As long as we’re winning games, I don’t care [about accolades]. Individual accomplishments come after team accomplishments and that’s one thing I focused on at Clemson.”

the rest here...

I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

We weren't going to get a game changer at any pick and we needed youth at so many positions this is the way to play it in our situation. As we get better and the number of holes go down then I'm with you on your strategy of picking fewer players who are better.

I think Jenkins was the real head scratcher from this draft, but he seems suitable as a 3-4 end, where you need a quick, DT size player.

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

We weren't going to get a game changer at any pick and we needed youth at so many positions this is the way to play it in our situation. As we get better and the number of holes go down then I'm with you on your strategy of picking fewer players who are better.

Sorry if I was not clear. I am not advocating fewer picks of players who are preceived to be better. While that may be an option one year, it was not this year. Regardless of where a player is picked in the draft, I don't believe that anyone can effectively place a value on the player until after the first year. What I was trying to get to was that as I read more and more about the players, I am feeling more comfortable with their selection, even Neild.

SkinsHead56 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

That's better then any team does on a regular basis much what's "expected"

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsHead56 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

That's better then any team does on a regular basis much what's "expected"

I'm ok with the draft, not elated. We simply didn't gain ground on most teams in the league and lost ground on more than a few. Most teams probably got a couple of players as good as our first two. We had a ho-hum draft-- not even interesting enough to draw comment from commentators. Kerrigan will probably start and the others probably won't unless there are surprises. I do think we accumulated more camp fodder than other teams. Hoorah.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsHead56 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

That's better then any team does on a regular basis much what's "expected"

I'm ok with the draft, not elated. We simply didn't gain ground on most teams in the league and lost ground on more than a few. Most teams probably got a couple of players as good as our first two. We had a ho-hum draft-- not even interesting enough to draw comment from commentators. Kerrigan will probably start and the others probably won't unless there are surprises. I do think we accumulated more camp fodder than other teams. Hoorah.

Last time I checked, a couple IS two...

crazyhorse1 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsHead56 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

That's better then any team does on a regular basis much what's "expected"

I'm ok with the draft, not elated. We simply didn't gain ground on most teams in the league and lost ground on more than a few. Most teams probably got a couple of players as good as our first two. We had a ho-hum draft-- not even interesting enough to draw comment from commentators. Kerrigan will probably start and the others probably won't unless there are surprises. I do think we accumulated more camp fodder than other teams. Hoorah.

I agree crazyhorse, but I don't think this was going to be a take us to the next level draft

SkinsHead56 wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I was not that thrilled about the Redskin draft. My concern was that the Redskins were trading down and down and taking players that are usually special teamers or fodder to be cut on the first or second cut of pre-season.

However, after reading more about the players drafted, I am getting more appreciative of them. It seems that they are the players that work hard and get the job done. The type of foundation guys that every team has to have to be Super Bowl material. Jenkins fits that mold.

We shall see in a year or two exactly how good Shanahan was in this draft.

Actually any pick in rounds 1-3 is expected to make the team, rd 1 - impact player, rd 2 - solid starter possible probowler, rd 3 - starter/solid reserve.

That's fine when you're listening to Kiper and McShay, but reality is quite a bit different. UFA's become Pro Bowlers and #1 picks get benched all the time.

Every team has certain types of players that fit their scheme. Sometimes those players aren't graded as high by "the experts" and get drafted later. and sometimes "the experts" are on a completely different page than most teams.

Grading the measurables, 40 time, arm strength, broad jump, shuttle etc. is a pretty objective task. But Grading how a player did within his college coach's scheme is pretty subjective. Grading how that player will deal with the huge jump into the NFL, how hard he will work to get better, THAT is extremely subjective.

the bottom line is, not a whole lot matters about where a guy was drafted once he gets to training camp. That draft status really only means one thing - the higher he was drafted, the more money has been committed to him AND how much the GM's success and reputation is tied to that players success. So the high draft picks will be given more opportunities to prove themselves. Other than that, it is a wide open crap shoot.

I love everything about JJ except for the factthat he went to CLEMPSON. go gamecocks. but seriously he can be effective as a five technique. sometimes guys like bowers lead the league in sacks cause there is a DT taking on two guys. Jenkins should do well day 1.

brad7686 wrote:I think Jenkins was the real head scratcher from this draft, but he seems suitable as a 3-4 end, where you need a quick, DT size player.

The only reason this is a head scratcher is because the only info we have to go by is what McShay and Kipers tell us. None of us are player scouts, and considering those guys hit at about the same rate GM's do (50%), I will say he was worth the pick and will fit well, because Shanny likes him and abilities to fit our scheme.

Shanahan has at least some history in making puzzling D-Line decisions--

from TMQ before the 2005 season:

TMQ wrote:As every sports columnist noted, Denver acquired via trades or free agency four of the Cleveland Browns' defensive linemen from 2004 -- though the Browns' defensive line finished dead last against the rush and 27th in sacks. In 2004, the Denver defense was fourth against the rush and 14th in sacks. Now the team has a line that last season performed nowhere nearly as well. Every sports columnist called these transactions weird. Let me just add that in my view, these transactions were very, very weird.

how did that pan out?

DENVER'S DEFENSE (2004) ALLOWED:
YDS/GAME: 278.7 (4th)
PTS/GAME: 19 (9th)
RUSH YDS/GAME: 94.5 (4th)
PASS YDS/GAME: 184.2 (6th)
SACKS: 38th (tied for 14th)

DENVER'S DEFENSE (2005) ALLOWED:
YDS/GAME: 312.9 (15th)
PTS/GAME: 16.1 (3rd)
RUSH YDS/GAME: 85.2 (2nd)
PASS YDS/GAME: 222.7 (29th)
SACKS: 28 (28th)

obviously other factors play into that but the results were mixed; however, they did improve substantially in points allowed per game.

...then again, his defenses did blow chunks his last few years in Denver, which is what got him fired...

Im going to have disagree with everyone here. Shanny was obviously looking for High Motor guys that fit the defensive scheme, and I think he found them.

Kerrigan - I think will be a pretty darn good starter
Jenkins - Will start at RDE next season
Hankerson - Will start at WR next yr
Helu - Will compete with Torain to start
Neild - Was a steal, I think this guy is starting at NT for us by midway in the season
Thats 5 probable/possible starters. Anytime you can come out of a draft with 4 starters, its a good one. Thats not to mention the rother guys we drafted who could be solid backups or special teamers.

die cowboys die wrote:Shanahan has at least some history in making puzzling D-Line decisions--

from TMQ before the 2005 season:

TMQ wrote:As every sports columnist noted, Denver acquired via trades or free agency four of the Cleveland Browns' defensive linemen from 2004 -- though the Browns' defensive line finished dead last against the rush and 27th in sacks. In 2004, the Denver defense was fourth against the rush and 14th in sacks. Now the team has a line that last season performed nowhere nearly as well. Every sports columnist called these transactions weird. Let me just add that in my view, these transactions were very, very weird.

how did that pan out?

DENVER'S DEFENSE (2004) ALLOWED:
YDS/GAME: 278.7 (4th)
PTS/GAME: 19 (9th)
RUSH YDS/GAME: 94.5 (4th)
PASS YDS/GAME: 184.2 (6th)
SACKS: 38th (tied for 14th)

DENVER'S DEFENSE (2005) ALLOWED:
YDS/GAME: 312.9 (15th)
PTS/GAME: 16.1 (3rd)
RUSH YDS/GAME: 85.2 (2nd)
PASS YDS/GAME: 222.7 (29th)
SACKS: 28 (28th)

obviously other factors play into that but the results were mixed; however, they did improve substantially in points allowed per game.

...then again, his defenses did blow chunks his last few years in Denver, which is what got him fired...

From the 2000 draft through the 2008 draft the Broncos drafted 14 defensive linemen. Of those 14, only one has ever started a full season's worth of games (Elvis Dumervil). Dumervil and Reggie Hayward, out of the 14, are the only two that have turned out to be good players.

skins2357 wrote:Im going to have disagree with everyone here. Shanny was obviously looking for High Motor guys that fit the defensive scheme, and I think he found them.

Kerrigan - I think will be a pretty darn good starter
Jenkins - Will start at RDE next season
Hankerson - Will start at WR next yr
Helu - Will compete with Torain to start
Neild - Was a steal, I think this guy is starting at NT for us by midway in the season
Thats 5 probable/possible starters. Anytime you can come out of a draft with 4 starters, its a good one. Thats not to mention the rother guys we drafted who could be solid backups or special teamers.

I think you pretty clearly don't disagree with "everyone" here.

I have not seen or read anything that leads me to think we have not improved as a franchise since these guys took over - until all the dust settles and we get back to making trades and operating with a new CBA in place I'm going to hope that these guys continue the re-building process

This franchise needs to continue to work on many areas of need and it's not happening as quickly as we all would like BUT it is happening - the draft is only a part of the NFL and this FO did fairly well with what they had - now we need to add the free agents and the trades we are going to make and get better idea of what we are likely to see this coming season

The O line did start to show some glimmers at the end of the season

The D does need to find a better mix to play the 3-4

I'm going to continue to hope that we are going to get a little better and maybe even be a playoff contender next season

SkinsJock wrote:I have not seen or read anything that leads me to think we have not improved as a franchise since these guys took over - until all the dust settles and we get back to making trades and operating with a new CBA in place I'm going to hope that these guys continue the re-building process

This franchise needs to continue to work on many areas of need and it's not happening as quickly as we all would like BUT it is happening - the draft is only a part of the NFL and this FO did fairly well with what they had - now we need to add the free agents and the trades we are going to make and get better idea of what we are likely to see this coming season

The O line did start to show some glimmers at the end of the season

The D does need to find a better mix to play the 3-4

I'm going to continue to hope that we are going to get a little better and maybe even be a playoff contender next season

I completely agree with you Jock....the Redskins ARE improving their roster, the problem is that us, as fans, have grown impatient over the "rebuilding" that has been going on in the past 10 years under Cerrato. Now everyone realizes that was not rebuilding, that was a TERRIBLE front office trying to keep fans buying tickets by getting big names and hoping everything would work out. This is what a TRUE rebuild looks like, we are not going out and spending 100 million dollars or stocking up on Vets, thats not rebuilding.

Truth be told, we probably wont be good next year, but we are setting something up for the future and THATS what what rebuilding is. I still cant believe some people on this board want to go out and sign Assamougua (sp?) when everyone knows the kind of coin thats going to take, plus hes already 30. THAT is not a rebuilding move. We need to focus on guys on our roster now and sign younger free agents that can compete or start, AND FIT THE SYSTEM. Ryan Harris is a 25 y/o RT with ZBS experince, he fits the system and would be a good signing. Kevin Walter is a 29 y/o WR who knows Kyles system, he would be a good signing. Some people on here calling for Assamougha (sp?), or Randy Moss or these other big names...these are not rebuilding moves and are reasons why we are in this state now, and I dont think we make them.. (hope)

We drafted some guys who fit out defensive scheme and should be starters (Kerrigan, Jenkins, Neild) and we also drafted some guys who could start on the offensive side of the ball (Hankerson, Helu/Royster). IMO we need to let the young talent we have step up and sign young free agents.

When we have the roster that can callenge, THEN you make splashes on 30 y/o CBs...not now

skins2357 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I have not seen or read anything that leads me to think we have not improved as a franchise since these guys took over - until all the dust settles and we get back to making trades and operating with a new CBA in place I'm going to hope that these guys continue the re-building process

This franchise needs to continue to work on many areas of need and it's not happening as quickly as we all would like BUT it is happening - the draft is only a part of the NFL and this FO did fairly well with what they had - now we need to add the free agents and the trades we are going to make and get better idea of what we are likely to see this coming season

The O line did start to show some glimmers at the end of the season

The D does need to find a better mix to play the 3-4

I'm going to continue to hope that we are going to get a little better and maybe even be a playoff contender next season

I completely agree with you Jock....the Redskins ARE improving their roster, the problem is that us, as fans, have grown impatient over the "rebuilding" that has been going on in the past 10 years under Cerrato. Now everyone realizes that was not rebuilding, that was a TERRIBLE front office trying to keep fans buying tickets by getting big names and hoping everything would work out. This is what a TRUE rebuild looks like, we are not going out and spending 100 million dollars or stocking up on Vets, thats not rebuilding.

Truth be told, we probably wont be good next year, but we are setting something up for the future and THATS what what rebuilding is. I still cant believe some people on this board want to go out and sign Assamougua (sp?) when everyone knows the kind of coin thats going to take, plus hes already 30. THAT is not a rebuilding move. We need to focus on guys on our roster now and sign younger free agents that can compete or start, AND FIT THE SYSTEM. Ryan Harris is a 25 y/o RT with ZBS experince, he fits the system and would be a good signing. Kevin Walter is a 29 y/o WR who knows Kyles system, he would be a good signing. Some people on here calling for Assamougha (sp?), or Randy Moss or these other big names...these are not rebuilding moves and are reasons why we are in this state now, and I dont think we make them.. (hope)

We drafted some guys who fit out defensive scheme and should be starters (Kerrigan, Jenkins, Neild) and we also drafted some guys who could start on the offensive side of the ball (Hankerson, Helu/Royster). IMO we need to let the young talent we have step up and sign young free agents.

When we have the roster that can callenge, THEN you make splashes on 30 y/o CBs...not now

Who's being impatient? Is it wrong to want to see marked improvement in year two? Quantifiable improvement and goals are how you show progress. That's all I want.

Nnamdi can play CB for 5 more years most likely and still be a starter, so it's not like we're trading for Favre. I understand the gunshy for high priced vets, but Nnamdi is the best FA CB out there. If we're contenders in 2012 or even 2013, he'll still be here and productive.

There were 57 D-linemen that participated in the NFL combine. There was only one guy (who weighs 50 lbs. less than Jenkins) that did worse than him in the bench press. I'll be the first to admit that doesn't always mean a lot, but for a 310 pound guy that's supposed to hold the end in a 3-4 defense, 17 reps is horrific. There's no starting 3-4 defensive end in the NFL with that poor a bench press. For me, (and for several NFL teams) it's a red flag, and makes one wonder how hard he works. He's a solid ball player, but he's going to have to work harder at the next level than he has in the past... hopefully he comes in knowing that about himself.

For the record I should say that his standing in the bench press scared him enough that he went back and worked on it before his pro day and did much better (although at your pro day they aren't as strict about what counts as a rep), so that gave teams a bit more of a warm fuzzy...

I wouldnt say its horrific. A 310 lbs guy benching 340 lbs... Strength and conditioning coaches will work on that and remember the guy is young. Like you said hopefully he knows he needs to improve on it.

225 lbs x 17 reps = 340 lbs (just for those wondering)

Vet - I understand what your saying, but for me our "marked improvement" is getting younger and finding potential solid starters, that in itself is an improvement over last year even if it does not show in the win/loss column.

I dont feel that a REBUILDING team should spend 100 million (you know hes going to get it) on a 30 year old CB. You may say by the time we contend he will still be productive, but that not 100% certain. As players get older, their injuries occur more often, just the way life it.

The bigger picture is if we signed Nnamdi then we would have entirely too much money invested in our secondary. Hall has a big contract, Nnamdi would have a bigger contract, Atogwe has a decent chunk AND we are looking to extend LaRon. I dont think we could reasonably offer Nnamdi the contract he needs

That would be some sick secondary though, wouldn't it

I'm not sure what is going to happen but I do think they'll try and keep Rogers OR they'll find another decent CB to help our secondary

no matter who is in the secondary - the success of the secondary in the passing game is directly associated with having a front 7 that can constantly pressure the QB - we have not had that for a while
I hope we have some more players in our plans for both potential starters PLUS some decent depth for the front 7

I understand that everyone is enamored with the bench press, but why? I understand it for O Lineman (they use the same motion to pass block and its a good judgement of much weight they could "push"), but I dont see why its such a focus for other positions.

As a DE, you are trying to tie up blockers for your LBs, cause a stalemate to fill a hole, or rush the passer. In all of those instances, I fail to see how bench press is a good indication of success.

Rushing the passer is about speed (speed rush), technique (swim move, rip move) and lower body strength (bull rush)

If you are trying to tie up blockers or cause a stalemate, then you are actually using the oppositte motion of the bench press, which renders it useless.

I understand it gives scouts a good idea of upper body strength, but the OL is one of the only positions where I see it a useful assesment tool.

If anything, I think they should start doing squat tests at the combine as your lower body strength is more important then upper body strength in most positions (except OL) Just my 2 cents..