The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Currently the Redskins have two QB's under contract, McNabb and Beck with Grossman looking like a good bet to be re-signed. McNabb looks like a good bet to be released or traded (hopefully.)

Here's the three so far:

#5 Donovan McNabb

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD5JEkHw-0c

Grade= 79, Good Player

Though we would no longer put him in the outstanding area, he is still a solid starting QB. He can still make all of the throws that any offensive system would ask of him. He is still an above-average athlete who can occasionally beat you with his feet. He is an excellent leader. Players around him believe in him and his ability to make big plays down the stretch that will change the outcome of the game. He is getting a little older but still makes a lot of plays

#8 Rex Grossman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVKT9kjVC0A

Grade= 56, Good Backup

Grossman has been a backup quarterback for pretty much all of his seven years in the NFL since being drafted in the first round of the 2003 drafty by the Chicago Bears. He is an undersized quarterback with a strong arm but has a tendency to take too many chances when throwing the ball. He understands the game and can read coverages but needs to stay in the pocket to be most successful and lacks the speed and quickness to be much of a scrambler or to extend the pocket. He has a quick release once he decides to pull the trigger but does not have a great feel for the rush and tends to take too many sacks.

#3 John Beck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MflFK7Q0o9E

Grade= 63, Average Starter

Beck has adequate size and athleticism with solid arm strength. He has good release quickness and shows effective accuracy when he has time to set his feet. Beck isn't great to create out of the pocket, but can elude and deliver the ball to make plays downfield. He is a smart player who shows good vision downfield to take what the defense gives him. He doesn't have the power to fit the ball into tight windows but has enough arm strength to make all the throws with effective weight transfer and timing. Beck is a high-character person with great work ethic, toughness and intelligence

Obviously some of these grades are off since they were released before last year. Personally I don't believe that any of these three guys is a legit shot to start for the Redskins next season but I definitely like some of the things they bring to the table. What stands out though... is that they are all undersized. I'd like to see us draft a guy or else make a blockbuster trade because we're honestly stuck without making a move here.

Am I too hard on Rexy? Does anyone believe that John Beck has a legit chance to start? Would Cincy trade us Carson Palmer somehow?

Let's just get a guy through FA. No more trading away picks for players other teams no longer want. No thanks.

RE-TRAIN YOUR BRAIN.

That's the old way of doing things.

I'm still pulling for us to return to McNabb and will continue until we don't have him or we have an actual better option.

Kazoo - I was just talking to my Dad about that yesterday. IMO, unless we get decent value for him in 2012 or a player/player trade that fixes an area of need, I say we keep him. He's under contract, will be in his 2nd year under the offense, is a good leader and will help these young guys along. No way do we just cut the guy. That would just be stupid IMO.

Who is available in free agency?

http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
Matt Hasselbeck (SEA)
Seneca Wallace (CLE)
Matt Moore (CAR)
Alex Smith (SF)
Matt Leinart (HOU)
Marc Bulger (BAL)
Todd Collins (CHI)
Caleb Hanie (CHI)
Brady Quinn (DEN)
Drew Stanton (DET)
Trent Edwards (JAC)
Luke McCown (JAC)
Brodie Croyle (KC)
Chad Pennington (MIA)
Tyler Thigpen (MIA)
Tarvaris Jackson (MIN)
Jim Sorgi (NYG)
Kellen Clemens (NYJ)
Kyle Boller (OAK)
Bruce Gradkowski (OAK)
Dennis Dixon (PIT)
Billy Volek (SD)
Troy Smith (SF)
Kerry Collins (TEN)
Rex Grossman (WAS)

I mean, honestly... who is there? The best we could do from that crop is take Bulger or Hasselbeck and limp through the season.

Could we try a three way trade with Cincy and either Arizona or Minny, whoever wants DMac?

Say we trade D-Mac to the Vikings for a 4 and then we trade that pick and our 3 or 4 next season for Carson Palmer who is threatening to retire anyway. Two mid round picks for an aging QB you have no use for is damn good value. The Bengals would need to take that right? Palmer is much better than McNabb, I think something like that is possible. If not, we're really screwed at QB.

I am also hoping we draft Stanzi or McElroy. Claims are their arm strength is not elite, but that's something you can work on. Otherwise they are high character guys who are winners.

frankcal20 wrote:Kazoo - I was just talking to my Dad about that yesterday. IMO, unless we get decent value for him in 2012 or a player/player trade that fixes an area of need, I say we keep him. He's under contract, will be in his 2nd year under the offense, is a good leader and will help these young guys along. No way do we just cut the guy. That would just be stupid IMO.

He's a good guy to have whether it's to play or mentor a youngster or both. He'd be a great mentor he has such a good attitude. But I agree with you if we go get an actual good offer for him at this point we'd have to seriously consider it

I just don't see Grossman as the guy. At best he is just as good as McNabb but McNugget gets the nod simply because he has been more successful throughout his career. NcNabb needs that second year in the system and some weapons to throw to. Palmer trade is the only thing worthwhile unless the Vikings want to give us Ponder for McNabb and a second round pick in 2012. Other than that I am sticking to what I hae been saying, McNabb starts for us this year, assuming we have a season of course.

From the looks of the draft, it looks more and more likely that we aren't going to draft a QB this year.

I am on the fence with McNabb, I think he is definitely the best choice out of our 3 QBs, but I just don't understand the way that our coaches/front office treated him at the end of last year. If I were Mcnabb, I wouldn't want to come back.

spudstr04 wrote:From the looks of the draft, it looks more and more likely that we aren't going to draft a QB this year.

I am on the fence with McNabb, I think he is definitely the best choice out of our 3 QBs, but I just don't understand the way that our coaches/front office treated him at the end of last year. If I were Mcnabb, I wouldn't want to come back.

I know, we should have focused on making him happy and serving his ego, not making him compete or trying out anyone else. That's how QB's succeed in the NFL, fragile egos and hypersensitivity to being slighted or having to earn anything, pretty much how any QB makes in in the NFL.

We know by his long stint in Philly he's not the sensitive little baby you envision, so I'm actually not worried about that. I liked him when we traded for him and I like him now. But no one promised him a primrose path to anything and no one in the NFL gets that.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:From the looks of the draft, it looks more and more likely that we aren't going to draft a QB this year.

I am on the fence with McNabb, I think he is definitely the best choice out of our 3 QBs, but I just don't understand the way that our coaches/front office treated him at the end of last year. If I were Mcnabb, I wouldn't want to come back.

I know, we should have focused on making him happy and serving his ego, not making him compete or trying out anyone else. That's how QB's succeed in the NFL, fragile egos and hypersensitivity to being slighted or having to earn anything, pretty much how any QB makes in in the NFL.

We know by his long stint in Philly he's not the sensitive little baby you envision, so I'm actually not worried about that. I liked him when we traded for him and I like him now. But no one promised him a primrose path to anything and no one in the NFL gets that.

It's not that I think he is fragile mentally. It is the BS excuses of "stamina" and the rest of the garbage that Shanahan threw our way.

spudstr04 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

spudstr04 wrote:From the looks of the draft, it looks more and more likely that we aren't going to draft a QB this year.

I am on the fence with McNabb, I think he is definitely the best choice out of our 3 QBs, but I just don't understand the way that our coaches/front office treated him at the end of last year. If I were Mcnabb, I wouldn't want to come back.

I know, we should have focused on making him happy and serving his ego, not making him compete or trying out anyone else. That's how QB's succeed in the NFL, fragile egos and hypersensitivity to being slighted or having to earn anything, pretty much how any QB makes in in the NFL.

We know by his long stint in Philly he's not the sensitive little baby you envision, so I'm actually not worried about that. I liked him when we traded for him and I like him now. But no one promised him a primrose path to anything and no one in the NFL gets that.

It's not that I think he is fragile mentally. It is the BS excuses of "stamina" and the rest of the garbage that Shanahan threw our way.

You mean unlike Philly where management was always nice and the press never blew up anything or obsessed on it?

It's becoming clear that Shanahan doesn't feel a powerful need to address the quarterback situation via this draft. I have to imagine that he is confident that a quarterback, either currently with the team, or that will be available by trade or FA, will be running this team this year... It's also increasingly apparent that he is taking a long term view of building the team... We are likely to see only modest improvements in team performance this year, as he continues to build a foundation for the future. Many here have opined that we won't see real gains until the 2012 season... that may be. But, a price must be paid for 2 decades of short term building, and knee jerk player management. There's light at the end of the tunnel, now...

The question is, how well has this front office done in evaluating the talent they are collecting? That answer won't be available in any post draft report card that comes out tomorrow or Monday... we'll just have to wait.

Regardless... Shanahan and Allen came into this draft with a plan... and, it's clear that they have followed it. How refreshing to see.

I am not real crazy about the quarterback options available. McNabb is at the bottom of my choices. I would actually rather see Grossman back. I would like to see the Redskins take a chance on either Alex Smith or Matt Leinart. Both can be gotten relatively cheap. Smiths numbers last year were not all that bad despite the flack he took. Leinart has been brutally humiliated and he is sufficiently humbled to actually work at being a quarterback. Bulger would be a choice but he is going to Seattle.

aswas71788 wrote:I am not real crazy about the quarterback options available. McNabb is at the bottom of my choices. I would actually rather see Grossman back. I would like to see the Redskins take a chance on either Alex Smith or Matt Leinart. Both can be gotten relatively cheap. Smiths numbers last year were not all that bad despite the flack he took. Leinart has been brutally humiliated and he is sufficiently humbled to actually work at being a quarterback. Bulger would be a choice but he is going to Seattle.

On paper, Alex Smith is well suited to what Shanahan does. I could see that. I'm less convinced of Matt Leinart. I think his head may be messed up after the abuse he has taken.

Countertrey wrote:It's becoming clear that Shanahan doesn't feel a powerful need to address the quarterback situation via this draft. I have to imagine that he is confident that a quarterback, either currently with the team, or that will be available by trade or FA, will be running this team this year... It's also increasingly apparent that he is taking a long term view of building the team... We are likely to see only modest improvements in team performance this year, as he continues to build a foundation for the future. Many here have opined that we won't see real gains until the 2012 season... that may be. But, a price must be paid for 2 decades of short term building, and knee jerk player management. There's light at the end of the tunnel, now...

The question is, how well has this front office done in evaluating the talent they are collecting? That answer won't be available in any post draft report card that comes out tomorrow or Monday... we'll just have to wait.

Regardless... Shanahan and Allen came into this draft with a plan... and, it's clear that they have followed it. How refreshing to see.

Good analysis which reflect my views exactly.

I could have put money that Shanny was going to pick a QB in the Draft. How wrong I was. He has priorities and a plan. He was disciplined not to take one at a higher cost to other weak positions.

Countertrey wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:I am not real crazy about the quarterback options available. McNabb is at the bottom of my choices. I would actually rather see Grossman back. I would like to see the Redskins take a chance on either Alex Smith or Matt Leinart. Both can be gotten relatively cheap. Smiths numbers last year were not all that bad despite the flack he took. Leinart has been brutally humiliated and he is sufficiently humbled to actually work at being a quarterback. Bulger would be a choice but he is going to Seattle.

On paper, Alex Smith is well suited to what Shanahan does. I could see that. I'm less convinced of Matt Leinart. I think his head may be messed up after the abuse he has taken.

I am not totally convinced on Leinart either and am not campaigning for him. He was a spoiled, entitled player and party boy, to use Ryan Leafs description of himself and his failure in the NFL. Leinart has the skills but needs to put in the work. Maybe he has learned. He would be a cheap acquisition and little lost if he didn't pan out.

Sorry guys but I have a strong feeling that Beck is going to be our QB this season unless something crazy happens.

frankcal20 wrote:Sorry guys but I have a strong feeling that Beck is going to be our QB this season unless something crazy happens.

Chris Russell
More Shanahan on J. Beck "He's everything you look for in a Quarterback. First to work, last to leave. He has not disapointed me."

I'll be honest, I wouldn't mind Rex Grossman starting. I don't want McNabb acting moody as our starting QB and dealing with drama every time anything bad happens. Also, we weren't exactly good with im starting.

When Rex Grossman got the top job, our offense looked completely different. Seemed to be more complex plays, some semblance of a short passing game, getting in and out of the huddle quicker, etc. The Shanahans obviously have a great offensive scheme and it seems Rex Grossman has a better grasp of it than McNabb.

Listening to Shanny's post draft presser, it seems as if they wanted Locker but knew he would go early then went with getting Ponder later but Minny reached and that was the end of that

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I'm still pulling for us to return to McNabb and will continue until we don't have him or we have an actual better option.

"Donovan will never take another snap for me again," so said Kyle. I don't think DMac's agent made that up. We know Mike said, “Donovan McNabb would be welcomed back next year as a backup.” Are you sure you want to Keep Hope Alive!

Red_One43 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I'm still pulling for us to return to McNabb and will continue until we don't have him or we have an actual better option.

"Donovan will never take another snap for me again," so said Kyle. I don't think DMac's agent made that up. We know Mike said, “Donovan McNabb would be welcomed back next year as a backup.” Are you sure you want to Keep Hope Alive!

It could happen...

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Countertrey wrote:It's becoming clear that Shanahan doesn't feel a powerful need to address the quarterback situation via this draft. I have to imagine that he is confident that a quarterback, either currently with the team, or that will be available by trade or FA, will be running this team this year... It's also increasingly apparent that he is taking a long term view of building the team... We are likely to see only modest improvements in team performance this year, as he continues to build a foundation for the future. Many here have opined that we won't see real gains until the 2012 season... that may be. But, a price must be paid for 2 decades of short term building, and knee jerk player management. There's light at the end of the tunnel, now...

The question is, how well has this front office done in evaluating the talent they are collecting? That answer won't be available in any post draft report card that comes out tomorrow or Monday... we'll just have to wait.

Regardless... Shanahan and Allen came into this draft with a plan... and, it's clear that they have followed it. How refreshing to see.

Good analysis which reflect my views exactly.

I could have put money that Shanny was going to pick a QB in the Draft. How wrong I was. He has priorities and a plan. He was disciplined not to take one at a higher cost to other weak positions.

You guys are high. Yes it was so "refreshing" to see us repeatedly ignore a need we have at the most important position on the field. Much better to end up with way more wr's and rb's than we could ever possibly carry on a 53 man roster. Glad you're all so confident in their "plan". Last year's gay plan to give our draft picks to our rival for their notoriously inaccurate qb has really instilled a lot of confidence in me. Transforming our top d into one of the last ranked units by switching to a system we didnt have the personnel for was pretty sweet too. Loved how we wasted Andre Carter who the year before had double digit sacks, but had struggled mightily the last time he was forced to play standing up. That was pretty cool how we weren't able to coach that other guy to play nose tackle or any position, you know that one we had 100 million invested in.

Ryan Mallett apparently is so worthless that we passed on him 4 times. Not worth the risk I guess, when it will cut into the number of wr's we can draft. Apparently our o-line is not in need of too much help either. Casey Rabach probably got better in the off-season. At least we got another safety, too bad we couldn't squeeze out another TE too.

Before hhis draft I heard at least 6 different reports that this draft was top heavy, and that there was a serious drop-off in quality after about the first 50 picks. So what do we do but start trading back at 49 like we've strangely never been able to before. Suddenly this year there was always a taker to move up. Coincidence I guess, or my bad, I forgot the topic of this thread for a moment, it was due to the masterful planning efforts of shrewd and shrewderer. John Beck rules.

Ok that was a bit harsh, but most of it was true. If Vinny had presided over this embarrassingly bad last year and draft you'd be pulling your hair out right now, but instead it feels so good to have a plan in place. A plan to empower a division rival and ignore our needs at O-line and QB. You even went as far as giving a free pass to suck in 2012 as well, because hey, not even genius 1 and 2 could be expected to clean up the previous decades mess that fast. Then why is he getting 8 gazillion per? Shouldn't we maybe hold off on that til we get to .500 or something?

If we can re-sign Grossman, that will be the top move of our off-season. I say that only half in jest, as I really do like the guy. Would love to see him get a chance to shut all the experts mouths. That's how you get respect as an organization, win with guys that others couldn't win with. Have a system that breeds success and adapt it to your players strengths when necessary. Don't go sign Troy Aikman to throw the bally for us and Emmit Smith to run it. We don't have green uniforms with wings on the helmet. We don't need any of their players, especially not the over-rated face of their franchise.

No I obviously still can't let that go. It was so gay. As bad or worse than when we signed Deion.