The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.

Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.

Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. Sure, you can have a dominant DE in the 3-4, but you don't need one. Many 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10? And is there even a dominant type 3-4 DEin this draft? Are they worth #10 when you could bolster position depth nicely with a 5th-6th round player.

WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked or dismayed to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a whole team here. Before you can expect the skill positions to develop you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.

Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB in the 2nd round or next year. Solidifying both offensive tackles for the next 8-10 years is a good way to build a foundation for future success.

fleetus wrote:If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.

Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.

Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?

WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.

Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years.

We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.

Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.

Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?

WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.

Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years.

We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year.

I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.

Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys.

I would rather a 25 year old Ryan Harris from Denver in free agency. I agree that we need to rebuild our O Line, but spending a 10 pick on a RT is ubsurd. If your going to draft a OL with the 10th pick in the draft, it better be a LT, because thats the only OL that warrants a pick that high. Im not saying not to draft Smith, but not a RT. Someone will draft Smith highly, and he will play LT, but I doubt abyone spends a top 15 pick on him them puts him on the right side. Sign Ryan Harris to a 4-5 year deal, and you'll have your bookends between him and Trent

fleetus wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.

Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.

Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?

WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.

Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years.

We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year.

I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.

Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys.

I can accept that. The thing I can't shake is that we need more than 1 WR. We have 1 signed WR atm that has done anything at all for us. On the other side of the spectrum, look at the successful passing games in NO, SD, GB. They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.

I wouldn't be upset if we drafted a RT in the first as long as we address this glaring at WR agressively in some fashion. I know we're rebuilding, but we cannot completely neglect WR. We have to put an NFL caliber product on the field, even if it's not in the elite category. I can't get on board with throwing a season by not trying to partially address the gaping WR hole. To me, that's one fashion of throwing the season before it even starts.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.

Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.

Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?

WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.

Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years.

We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year.

I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.

Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys.

I can accept that. The thing I can't shake is that we need more than 1 WR. We have 1 signed WR atm that has done anything at all for us. On the other side of the spectrum, look at the successful passing games in NO, SD, GB. They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.

I wouldn't be upset if we drafted a RT in the first as long as we address this glaring at WR agressively in some fashion. I know we're rebuilding, but we cannot completely neglect WR. We have to put an NFL caliber product on the field, even if it's not in the elite category. I can't get on board with throwing a season by not trying to partially address the gaping WR hole. To me, that's one fashion of throwing the season before it even starts.

I hear ya. We have so many holes to fill and only 2 picks before round 5. There's no way it can all be done this year, so let's just hope they make these picks count and learn how to add more draft picks in the future (not give them away).

fleetus wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:If he's available, you have to look at adding the book end to compliment Trent Williams.

Arguably, the Skins biggest needs are NT and OLB. Neither position has a player likely to be a good fit for the Redskins at #10. Not sold on Quinn as a 3-4 OLB, at least not as high as 10.

Most analysts are then predicting the Skins would draft for the next priorities, either DE or WR. My problem with this logic is, that DE is just not a game changing type player in the 3-4. Sure, you can design a 3-4 around a dominant DE, but usually 3-4 DE's are road graders. For this reason, you draft them like offensive guards. When's the last time a team drafted a guard in the top 10?

WR is a definite need and I wouldn't be shocked to see Jones taken #10. But, Shanahan needs to build a team here. Before you can expect the offense to develop a passing game to benefit a guy like Jones, you need a better offensive line. Jamaal Brown is not likely to make it through a full season again and his Pro Bowl days are probably past.

Draft Tyrone Smith and you are setting the stage to add a rookie QB next year and solidifying the O-line for the next 8-10 years.

We have Capers who dropped last year and we picked up in the 7th. And I think still think we need a WR looking at our depleted WR corps more than we need a RT, since the line started to come together (IMO, anyway) towards the end of the year.

I agree with you for the most part. and I wouldn't mind seeing them draft Jones. But if given the choice between Jones or T. Smith, I would take Smith. Either would be a good addition, but I see Smith as a safer pick. OL's usually are pretty good bets, while WR's tend to be a real crap shoot in the top 10 of the draft. Also, I see Smith as an instant improvement, like Trent was last year. WR's usually take a few years to develop, when and IF they do.

Lastly, if you had to map out the future of building this team for success in 2-3 years, I think drafting two tackles and adding a free agent WR works better than anything else. You see good WR's in free agency all the time, but rarely does a Joe Thomas, Orlando Pace type guy become a free agent. You have to draft those guys.

I can accept that. The thing I can't shake is that we need more than 1 WR. We have 1 signed WR atm that has done anything at all for us. On the other side of the spectrum, look at the successful passing games in NO, SD, GB. They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.

I wouldn't be upset if we drafted a RT in the first as long as we address this glaring at WR agressively in some fashion. I know we're rebuilding, but we cannot completely neglect WR. We have to put an NFL caliber product on the field, even if it's not in the elite category. I can't get on board with throwing a season by not trying to partially address the gaping WR hole. To me, that's one fashion of throwing the season before it even starts.

I hear ya. We have so many holes to fill and only 2 picks before round 5. There's no way it can all be done this year, so let's just hope they make these picks count and learn how to add more draft picks in the future (not give them away).

And that's the biggest thing I think. I can support any kind of intelligent, comprehensive plan that has a goal.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:... We have so many holes to fill and only 2 picks before round 5. There's no way it can all be done this year, so let's just hope they make these picks count and learn how to add more draft picks in the future (not give them away).

And that's the biggest thing I think. I can support any kind of intelligent, comprehensive plan that has a goal.

I think you both make good points here

HOWEVER, I think these guys will continue along the path that tries to make the most out of what they've got and that's a bit of a concern for me - I don't think we should be just looking at the positions of need (we have too many) - we should be doing what both of you have aluded to - we need to make really good choices and we we need a long term plan (admittedly with short term goals) NOT a short term, try and win now, concept - that's what Mike & Bruce seem to be trying here


we need to REALLY rebuild and look at getting that done over the next 2 drafts and this season and next - we need to try and add to our draft picks for both this draft and the next and not give any more picks away

we have an owner that might not like that plan but I hope these guys learn from the mistakes they have made since they came in and just bite the bulllet and really get this franchise on the right path which might be painful at first but will ensure success for the long term


we need to get a lot younger and start to build a good offensive line with depth and a defensive front 7 - this will take time - we have some young gems and we need to keep building through the draft and adding younger free agents NOT talented older players


the draft picks have to be good and we need as many as we can - those are 2 things we have not done well here

VetSkinsFan wrote:They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.

On 1/5/2010 Armstrong signed a three-year deal, he will be a Restricted Free Agent in 2013

Tyron Smith may very well be a fine player, and I for one am diametrically opposed to drafting Julio Jones if Rex Grossman will be breaking him in, but right tackles are a dime a dozen and should never be drafted in the first round unless your quarterback is left-handed. There are several higher rated prospects expected to be on the board and the Redskins need damn near everything. I'd take a chance on Cam Newton before drafting a right tackle in the first round.

IF we cannot trade out of this pick and IF Jones is available THEN we take him and go after Jake Locker with the 41st pick - Rex Grossman is not even under contract here yet (is he?) - I doubt these guys are looking at Rex as being anything more than a just a decent QB - he's not going to suddenly become a really good QB

hopefully we add to our draft picks - if we get very lucky with some free agents AND some very solid drafting in both this and next year's draft, we could start to get a little excited about this franchise again

until then I'm hoping that the FO and the talent evaluators can just start locating young players that will help at almost every position except TE and LT on offense - we have similar issues at a lot of positions on defense too



let's do this right and stop trying to use band-aids when major surgery is called for

Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota.

Insofar as Smith goes, there is this tidbit:

NFL.com's Gil Brandt says the Cowboys are "probably" going to draft USC OT Tyron Smith at No. 9 overall.
Brandt expects Wisconsin DE J.J. Watt to be Dallas' other consideration, though offensive tackle is a more valued position than 3-4 end. Brandt, like SI's Tony Pauline, is convinced that the Cowboys won't take Nebraska CB Prince Amukamara. Smith would likely play right tackle for the Cowboys, unless he proves a better pass protector than Doug Free right off the bat. Apr 11, 5:03 PM
Source: NFL.com

TCIYM wrote:Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota.

Frankly, I won't be surprised if Jake Locker goes as high as 10... just sayin...

Countertrey wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota.

Frankly, I won't be surprised if Jake Locker goes as high as 10... just sayin...

You may very well be onto something there.

I have no problem with taking Locker at 10 but I hope that the fans will be very patient as it is very apparent to all the people that know that he needs at least a year before he will be ready to play - this guy has a lot of upside for the future - again ... not saying that Locker would be a bad pick in the first round but nobody with any QB knwledge is saying that Jake will be able to play the first year - everyone agrees that he has a lot of potential given a year of prep work with a good QB coach

I'm fine with that but I don't think that as much as Mike appears to love this guy he's going to throw him into the mix too soon - at least I hope not

NOW - given that Jake is not able to play for a year, do you still take him at 10 - I think not

rebuilding will be painful but we have to do it

that being said I'm not interested in using the 10 pick on T Smith - we just have too much work to do across the board to do that when it looks like better players are available at that spot

TCIYM wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Jake Locker won't be on the board when the #41 pick is on the clock. There is talk of Locker going as high as #12 to Minnesota.

Frankly, I won't be surprised if Jake Locker goes as high as 10... just sayin...

You may very well be onto something there.

This possibilty was being discussed on the LaVar and Dukes show today.

SkinsJock wrote:I have no problem with taking Locker at 10 but I hope that the fans will be very patient as it is very apparent to all the people that know that he needs at least a year before he will be ready to play - this guy has a lot of upside for the future - again ... not saying that Locker would be a bad pick in the first round but nobody with any QB knwledge is saying that Jake will be able to play the first year - everyone agrees that he has a lot of potential given a year of prep work with a good QB coach

I'm fine with that but I don't think that as much as Mike appears to love this guy he's going to throw him into the mix too soon - at least I hope not

NOW - given that Jake is not able to play for a year, do you still take him at 10 - I think not

rebuilding will be painful but we have to do it

that being said I'm not interested in using the 10 pick on T Smith - we just have too much work to do across the board to do that when it looks like better players are available at that spot

As complicated as the offense is, I don't think that we will be seeing any rookie QB play this season except in an emergency.

I kind of hope that the FO has identified a QB that they think might be able to develop into a really good QB and I'm prepared to wait - I'm not sure that QB is going to be our pick at 10

I just don't see them taking Tyron Smith - we really need to hope that there is a player available that we can use to trade down but if we have to use the pick - I just don't see them picking this OT

1niksder wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:They have 3-4 guys who could start on most clubs. We arguably could start 1 (I don't even know that we can count Armstrong as a shoe in for that category since he's just now in his sophomore year). And he's a FA, not even currently under contract.

On 1/5/2010 Armstrong signed a three-year deal, he will be a Restricted Free Agent in 2013

I was talking about his resume of dependability since he was a rook last year.

Patience??? Agaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaain????

Look dag gone it, I WANT SOMEONE WHO WILL STEP IN AND WIN US A DAG-NABIT SB.. NOW! RIGHT NOW! no football? STILL WIN THE SB!

I want to win the Super Bowl this year - I also hope that this FO really looks very hard at how to re-build this franchise with a bunch of young players that can start to develop into a good team

we will need to keep some of the current roster but basically we have needs all over the place and the biggest problem is that we have too many older players and we need to start getting younger players on the field - we cannot continue with the thought process that we can be competitive while we rebuild here


This group made some bad decisions both with players and defensive and offensive schemes - let's make the priority that we are building a team - this group seem to be trying to make the priority that we can be competitive while we rebuild
that aint going to get it done

bring in a bunch of young players - let them grow together and help the few great young players that we have, develop into a great team


I think the one good thing that we saw last year is the change in attitude - all teams have that - now we need more young guys that are hungry and looking for an opportunity

the talent evaluators need to do a much better job and bring in young guys that will help make the good players we already have even better