The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Let me start by saying I can't stand FSU. I hate their chant and the chomp with every bone in my body. It sends shivers up my spine but not in a good way.

With that being said, they have a pretty good QB coming out this year named Christian Ponder. Super smart guy, big, good arm, accurate, etc. I wanted to see what your thoughts were about him.

Of course I'm not thinking 1st round for him. He would be our 2nd round pick or late 1st if we were to trade down.

Let's discuss.

Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

6'3", 230lbs, 20 TDs, 2044 Yards, 8 Ints (2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCuu6UyO3B0

The footage is deceiving because they obviously don't show his mistakes but it looks like his receivers were open a lot on those plays but what I liked was the fact he can throw a great fade pass, he has great awareness when making plays with his feet and the dude can thread it in between defenders (as seen in this highlight film).

..but will Shanahan say he's athletic and has enough endurance?

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

This is what bleacherreport.com says about him in regard to the Redksins.

I don't see Ponder as our second round pick.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/5437 ... 11#page/10

TCIYM wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

Who cares who the last Florida QB was to have success in the NFL?

Who was the last Miami of Ohio QB to have success before Big Ben? How about the last Tennessee QB to have success before Peyton Manning? What about the last great Purdue QB before Brees?

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

Who cares who the last Florida QB was to have success in the NFL?

Who was the last Miami of Ohio QB to have success before Big Ben? How about the last Tennessee QB to have success before Peyton Manning? What about the last great Purdue QB before Brees?

A lot more Florida QBs have been drafted and washed out than the schools you mentioned.

TCIYM wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

Who cares who the last Florida QB was to have success in the NFL?

Who was the last Miami of Ohio QB to have success before Big Ben? How about the last Tennessee QB to have success before Peyton Manning? What about the last great Purdue QB before Brees?

A lot more Florida QBs have been drafted and washed out than the schools you mentioned.

I don't care if the next QB we get won the National Championship or if they went to a FCS school. Where they went to college simply doesn't matter.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

Who cares who the last Florida QB was to have success in the NFL?

Who was the last Miami of Ohio QB to have success before Big Ben? How about the last Tennessee QB to have success before Peyton Manning? What about the last great Purdue QB before Brees?

A lot more Florida QBs have been drafted and washed out than the schools you mentioned.

I don't care if the next QB we get won the National Championship or if they went to a FCS school. Where they went to college simply doesn't matter.

I disagree. Where, what coach, what system, what the projections say all matter. There are always exceptions but not many QBs projected lower than the first round end up being long-term answers.

Let's be honest. Not many QB's ever become stars period. What you have to do if find a player who has the brains, mechanics, arm strength and quick decision making skills that came come into the NFL and build on what he learned in college.

Also, it's not a bad thing for a kid to come in and sit a few years while learning under veteran players on how to train, study, etc. We're currently looking for every draft pick to come right in and play immediatly. Let the kids - and that's what they are - come in and learn the pro game. We can win with a serviceable guy.

frankcal20 wrote:Let's be honest. Not many QB's ever become stars period. What you have to do if find a player who has the brains, mechanics, arm strength and quick decision making skills that came come into the NFL and build on what he learned in college.

Also, it's not a bad thing for a kid to come in and sit a few years while learning under veteran players on how to train, study, etc. We're currently looking for every draft pick to come right in and play immediatly. Let the kids - and that's what they are - come in and learn the pro game. We can win with a serviceable guy.

If by "serviceable" you mean better than Eli Manning I might agree. We are discussing a QB prospect projected to go in the 2nd or 3rd round because he lacks the arm strength to make throws outside the numbers. Running down the list of teams who usually make the playoffs each season, none of them have QBs who have trouble making throws outside the numbers. The ones that come closest to "serviceable" such as Eli and Ben have dominant defenses. We don't. Nor do we have a line that can protect a project enough to keep him from losing his confidence. Under different circumstances this might make sense but things being what they are it makes more sense to take a chance on Jake Locker, who has a stronger arm and more mobility.

My point was, and sorry for doing a poor job of explaining myself, was that if you have a player who you draft in the later round, have that player sit behind a serviceable, Veteran QB for a few years to learn the game, improve arm strength. Keep in mind though that Tom Brady was said to have a VERY weak arm.

I think that Ponder's biggest issues is not arm strength but the arm itself. He's had an injury to his elbow all year long (bursa sack I think).

frankcal20 wrote:My point was, and sorry for doing a poor job of explaining myself, was that if you have a player who you draft in the later round, have that player sit behind a serviceable, Veteran QB for a few years to learn the game, improve arm strength. Keep in mind though that Tom Brady was said to have a VERY weak arm.

I think that Ponder's biggest issues is not arm strength but the arm itself. He's had an injury to his elbow all year long (bursa sack I think).

I may have misunderstood where you were going. Ponder is supposedly a very mental player and "gets it", he has the mental processes not many QBs have. I think what Ponder has going for him can't be taught. Unfortunately what he lacks can't be taught either and he would need those few years of seasoning you mentioned. I'm not against Ponder so much as I am diametrically opposed to three years of Rex Grossman.

I don't think that we're going to roll with Grossman but that's just my opinion. The fact that he turns the ball over so much put's the team in a position to have to fight every game as opposed to taking the lead and continuing to pound at them. His mental mistakes keep other teams in the game and that's not something you want at the QB position.

TCIYM wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

Who cares who the last Florida QB was to have success in the NFL?

Who was the last Miami of Ohio QB to have success before Big Ben? How about the last Tennessee QB to have success before Peyton Manning? What about the last great Purdue QB before Brees?

A lot more Florida QBs have been drafted and washed out than the schools you mentioned.

I don't care if the next QB we get won the National Championship or if they went to a FCS school. Where they went to college simply doesn't matter.

I disagree. Where, what coach, what system, what the projections say all matter. There are always exceptions but not many QBs projected lower than the first round end up being long-term answers.

I'll take an FCS QB if he is as good as Flacco.

...anyday ^

yupchagee wrote:I'll take an FCS QB if he is as good as Flacco.

Flacco was a 1st round pick, from Delaware, not a projected 2nd or 3rd round pick from schools with long and storied histories of failed NFL QBs. But obviously if you knew ahead of time that you were drafting the next Joe Flacco you have to take him.

I'd rather draft the next Matt Ryan.

Deadskins wrote:I'd rather draft the next Matt Ryan.

If were going for broke I'd rather draft the next Sonny Jurgensen, although I doubt there will be a next Sonny Jurgensen.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

TCIYM wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

TCIYM wrote:Who was the last Florida QB to have any success at the NFL level?

Florida State, not Florida.

I meant ANY Florida school ... the answer is either Rex Grossman or Daunte Culpepper, depending upon the definition of "success."

Who cares who the last Florida QB was to have success in the NFL?

Who was the last Miami of Ohio QB to have success before Big Ben? How about the last Tennessee QB to have success before Peyton Manning? What about the last great Purdue QB before Brees?

Yeah. I don't really care where they went to school. That really doesn't matter. There is really no "QB U" in college.

Things that I generally look at with incredible scrutiny are:

1) accuracy -- i don't care that a guy can hit an open receiver in stride 30 yards downfield. what I REALLY care about is his ability to hit a guy 15 yards downfield that was completely covered or when he puts the ball only where his receiver can get it -- and can do this on a consistent basis; not just every now and again.

2) OL -- while you shouldn't hold it against a QB if his OL is superior, it should be considered; a guy that has all day may have a slow trigger; these types of things can really cloud a lot of a QB's weaknesses when analyzing

3) leadership -- you want a QB that can stand on his own two feet. a guy that can win in desperate situtaitons and always shows up to play. also, a guy that the players tend to center around. A true leader is one that sacrafices for his guys.

4) awareness/intelligence -- you want a guy who is smart, easily understands playbooks, and can make quick decisions.

5) arm strength, height -- i consider this less important than most, but there is a certain NFL standard. the DBs and LBs in the NFL are infinetley faster than in college and you have to have the arm to make up for that. For height, you just have to be able to see over your lineman. Just simple logistics.

6) consistency -- a guy that brings it everyday

IMHO, those are the most important traits in an NFL QB. I don't care where you went to school.

Mark's right, there's really no QB "U" out there... (link is from 2008)

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/13247-which-colleges-really-produce-the-best-nfl-qbs

Look, here's the bottom line.. I just hope we don't do stupid crap like we've done in the past. There are many QBs out there to get so I don't know why we should use the 1st pick to get one.

Nobody said there was a "QB U." What I said was that Florida school QBs have a long and storied history of failure in the NFL. When Rex Grossman and Daunte Culpepper are the last two Florida QBs to have played for any length of time with any measure of success it's rather difficult to argue. Could there be an exception? Of course. But to expect that exception to be a projected 2nd or 3rd rounder who has questionable arm strength is a stretch.

TCIYM wrote:Nobody said there was a "QB U." What I said was that Florida school QBs have a long and storied history of failure in the NFL. When Rex Grossman and Daunte Culpepper are the last two Florida QBs to have played for any length of time with any measure of success it's rather difficult to argue. Could there be an exception? Of course. But to expect that exception to be a projected 2nd or 3rd rounder who has questionable arm strength is a stretch.

I am no QB expert, but I expect to see Ponder in that long and storied history of failure in the NFL for Florida school QB's. I just don't see him as worth our second round pick.

I think Ponder will make a great NFL backup. He's smart and works hard, but he doesn't have a great arm and he isn't the most durable guy. He missed a good chunk of 2009 with a separated shoulder and in 2010 had problems with the elbow on his throwing arm.