The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?

Typos guys sorry.

Kilmer72 wrote:Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?

I believe next year the Redskins have a 1, 2, 5, 6, & 7. I could be wrong. After that I don't know but let's say we have all 7. So maybe in 4 years we have 25 picks or so. If half of them make the team we have 12 new guys in 4 years. Let's add another 12 through FA. In 4 years we can realistically turn over half the roster with young keepers. If we shed some older talent along the way we can acquire a few more picks. Best case we can hopefully find a dozen current guys worth keeping (who are they???), replace the rest, and in 5 years be very good, young, and be stocked for the future with many picks. This is very rough but is the way I see it. If we are fortunate along the way we can get early help on both lines, land an inspirational and resourceful QB, and be really good in 2 years. But we should not think that way. We should look ahead 4 to 5 years and consider earlier success to be gravy.

We would have been there 5 years ago if we'd kept Marty.

DarthMonk

I don't think it will take 6 years. I think the speed of the turnaround will depend on a number of factors. Here are three that could speed up the process:

(1) Signing up free agents is not a bad thing. The problem is that in recent years we have gone for the biggest names and paid the fattest salaries. It would be better to use free agency to sign blue collar players.

(2) One way to acquire more draft picks is to trade down in the draft. In recent years we have traded away picks and traded up to try to find a marquee player. We have wasted too many picks on QBs and WRs that didn't pan out as expected. What we really need now is more young starters. Stop trying to find the next savior and try to find some good starters. Maybe one of them will have some unexpected upside.

(3) Part of it is what Brude Allen talked about in his first press conference as a Redskin: It all starts with having the guys who are already on the roster play better football. We have a talent deficiency for sure, but guys are not playing at their best, and there is still room for improvement.

DarthMonk wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?

I believe next year the Redskins have a 1, 2, 5, 6, & 7. I could be wrong. After that I don't know but let's say we have all 7. So maybe in 4 years we have 25 picks or so. If half of them make the team we have 12 new guys in 4 years. Let's add another 12 through FA. In 4 years we can realistically turn over half the roster with young keepers. If we shed some older talent along the way we can acquire a few more picks. Best case we can hopefully find a dozen current guys worth keeping (who are they???), replace the rest, and in 5 years be very good, young, and be stocked for the future with many picks. This is very rough but is the way I see it. If we are fortunate along the way we can get early help on both lines, land an inspirational and resourceful QB, and be really good in 2 years. But we should not think that way. We should look ahead 4 to 5 years and consider earlier success to be gravy.

We would have been there 5 years ago if we'd kept Marty.

DarthMonk

I liked Marty. I hated him for the way he treated Green but I believe in him even if he never won the big one he did build teams. Another blunder.

Yes, possibly. I'm thinking it'll be another 3-4 years before we're consistent and a potential contender.

Kilmer72 wrote:Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?

6-10 years is extreme. 10 years ago we were playing in the playoffs and Brad Johnson was our coach. We've had 5-6 legitimate chances to have built a winning franchise since then, so that can't be it.

6 years is also too extreme. In 2004 Snyder had just hired Gibbs. There's been plenty of time since that moment to have fielded a winning team.

Three years is realistic, I think. By year six, if Shanahan is successful to any degree, we will have been a true competitor for a couple of seasons.

Irn-Bru wrote:10 years ago we were playing in the playoffs and Brad Johnson was our coach.

The memory is the first thing to go.

I think it is probably more like 3-4 honestly. We need a new QB to ride the pine for a year or two. Need new skill position players and o-line and d-line. I don't understand enough about the game to know the ramifications of the switch in defense. I would feel a whole lot better if I had faith that The Danny would be patient but I just don't, not yet.

It does appear though that we will have a top 10 pick next draft so maybe we could pick up the QB of the future are trade for more picks. IF The Danny lets Allen and Shanny rebuild I don't think it will take that long.

I look at the Cheifs, Jets, Rams, Bucs, Falcons and Lions and feel like they are doing things the right way and did not go for the quick fix. Now look at them.

Deadskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:10 years ago we were playing in the playoffs and Brad Johnson was our coach.

The memory is the first thing to go.

It's all that "deep" thinking... increases brain wear... FFA should be a lot more superficial... makes things last longer.


Works for me... I may not make a lot of sense, but I do know that Brad Johnson was the GM, not the coach.

I honestly believe you are an O Line away on offense. You revamp that O Line, and all aspects of the offense flourshes. The RB (whoever it is) has large holes to run through. The QB (whoever it is) has time to wait for his WRs to get open. The O Line dictates everything.

On defense, we need a little more help with the transition to the 3-4. We need a gap clogging NT, we need a big, athletic pass rushing DE and we could use a bigger MLB alongside Fletch with another pass rushing OLB.

Offensivly, I think we could return to glory as soon as the O Line is fixed. Defensivly, it might take a couple yrs, but I dont think as long as you are talking.

skins2357 wrote:I honestly believe you are an O Line away on offense. You revamp that O Line, and all aspects of the offense flourshes. The RB (whoever it is) has large holes to run through. The QB (whoever it is) has time to wait for his WRs to get open. The O Line dictates everything.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.

Deadskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:10 years ago we were playing in the playoffs and Brad Johnson was our coach.

The memory is the first thing to go.

No, it is the second thing to go. I don't remember ther first.

Pp

skins2357 wrote:I honestly believe you are an O Line away on offense. You revamp that O Line, and all aspects of the offense flourshes. The RB (whoever it is) has large holes to run through. The QB (whoever it is) has time to wait for his WRs to get open. The O Line dictates everything.

On defense, we need a little more help with the transition to the 3-4. We need a gap clogging NT, we need a big, athletic pass rushing DE and we could use a bigger MLB alongside Fletch with another pass rushing OLB.

Offensivly, I think we could return to glory as soon as the O Line is fixed. Defensivly, it might take a couple yrs, but I dont think as long as you are talking.

I agree with this. Replace the ol from LG through RG with very good players and the offense gets dramatically better!

I would also say that improving the OL would also improve the defense. How you say? By running the ball and keeping the other offense off the field!

Anyone that thinks any coach on the NFL has five years, forget six to ten, to get contending team built is simply high. The longest the skins have kept a coach is four years (I know Gibbs could have stayed as long as he wanted and the Danny would never have fired him). So what makes anyone think MS will get five years to fix this. He had better heaved them contending for the playoffs next year. They don't have to make it, but they better be really close.

There are already idiot fans thinking that MS has ruined this team. Ruined a 4-12 team! That is so laughable it isn't even funny.

Fix the OL, add another pass rushing OLB opposite Orakpo, a solid corner, and a FS. If you do that, this team would be a contender. And that CAN be done in two off seasons.

A three year plan is long term in the NFL!

I believe it took Norv almost 7 years before the team was a serious post season threat. So tearing down a team and rebuilding can take many years with the same coach. I just see so many holes to fill. Yes, offensive and defensive lines. Line backers, secondary, RBs.... The list goes on and on. I hope we can get all that done in 3 or 4 years. I think it will take longer than what most of us think. I agree that just fixing the Oline alone will be a HUGE improvement. Will that be enough to win a championship though? I doubt it.

[quote="Kilmer72"]Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?



Man this site make me sad good lord man

My hunch is that the team goes 8-8 next season, and 10-6 the year after. Lots of 2010 players will not make opening day roster next in 2011; same process the season after.

Maybe add one more mediocre season, but remember that Gibbs made the playoffs in '05 after being handed a worse collection of players from Spurrier.

welch wrote:My hunch is that the team goes 8-8 next season, and 10-6 the year after. Lots of 2010 players will not make opening day roster next in 2011; same process the season after.

Maybe add one more mediocre season, but remember that Gibbs made the playoffs in '05 after being handed a worse collection of players from Spurrier.

Well two things here... Gibbs won with 3 different quarterbacks and a couple of different running backs. Shanny has won with the great John Elway. I would gamble to say that Joe was a much better coach. I bet he could have dealt with AH seeing how he could deal with Dexter and a cry baby Portis. Not saying that Dexter or Portis were cancer but they were problematic.

Also, Spurrier did bring in Betts and Cartwright. Spurrier might have sucked really bad but Gibbs got the most out of them. Apples and oranges... Gibbs is far superior to Shanny or any coach that came in after his first retire.

If you want to believe that Shanny can go 8 and 8 next year after spending 2, 3 and 4th rounders that really hasn't worked out yet then you might be making the same mistake I did before this season started. Good luck. I want you to be right.

At this point, the best thing to do is really trim the "fat" from this roster and start a youth movement that will pay off in year 2 or 3. Other teams are doing it and are on the cusp. Detroit is one of them. You can see it despite them still losing games but they are competitive to the end. It's just their youth of not knowing how to finish that is hurting them.

I'm not going to try to figure out the personnel puzzle but it would not hurt to go young and mold this team into what you want on both sides of the ball and earn your millions with it paying off in year 2-3 with the start of playoff runs.

welch wrote:My hunch is that the team goes 8-8 next season, and 10-6 the year after. Lots of 2010 players will not make opening day roster next in 2011; same process the season after.

Maybe add one more mediocre season, but remember that Gibbs made the playoffs in '05 after being handed a worse collection of players from Spurrier.

Given how well Shannahan did this year with the cleaning house and having to use our high pick on a rookie replacement for our franchise LT, I think this is a pretty reasonable prediction. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can do with an offseason of building on what he started rather then cleaning out what Zorn left him.

Kilmer72 wrote:Because we have switched to the 34 and had many holes to fill on offense alone, are we looking at many years to repair the damage that was done done to OUR team? The way I see it; we have put ourselves in a position. We have to spend draft picks on veterans to plug holes on both sides. I am not trying to be doom and gloom but let us think about it. How soon can things be done? You guys know where I stand. I think we made a mistake, and the 34 that we aren't suited for has made a bigger problem than was necessary. So, honestly, when do you really think we can have the type of team to contend for a championship? The way I see it we will have to mortgage our future for some time. Can someone explain how we can get this done in just a few years?

Are you describing our economy or the team? Seems like if you substituted a few words, it would apply to our economy as well.

As for the rebuild, will there be a lockout next year? If so, we win the super bowl next year. Isn't that the norm?

Here is a break down of how our draft picks will work out:

http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/35

Washington gets either a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick from New Orleans to complete deal for OT Jammal Brown
Philadelphia will receive Washington's 3rd round pick and New Orleans will get the Redskins 4th round pick if the Redskins either win 9 games or make to the playoffs this coming season or if QB Donovan McNabb is voted to the Pro Bowl. If those conditions aren't met then New Orleans will get the Redskins 3rd round pick Philadelphia gets their 4th round pick. If New Orleans gets Washington's 3rd round pick then the Redskins will get a 5th rounder to complete the deal. If the Saints only get the Redskins 4th round pick then Washington gets a 6th or 7th rounder to complete the deal

Washington has an undisclosed pick from Indianapolis - CB Justin Tyron

Since D-Nabb isn't going to the Pro Bowl and we aren't making the playoffs, we will receive the Saints 5th round pick from the Jammal Brown trade.

We will probably get a 6th rounder from the Colts for Tryon.


So here's the list of picks for 2011's Draft:

1
2
5
5
6
6
7

Possibly more 6th or 7th rounders with the supplemental picks...Ladell Betts, Antwaan Randle El, Todd Collins, Rock Cartwright.

spudstr04 wrote:Here is a break down of how our draft picks will work out:

http://www.draftinsiders.com/node/35

Washington gets either a 5th, 6th or 7th round pick from New Orleans to complete deal for OT Jammal Brown
Philadelphia will receive Washington's 3rd round pick and New Orleans will get the Redskins 4th round pick if the Redskins either win 9 games or make to the playoffs this coming season or if QB Donovan McNabb is voted to the Pro Bowl. If those conditions aren't met then New Orleans will get the Redskins 3rd round pick Philadelphia gets their 4th round pick. If New Orleans gets Washington's 3rd round pick then the Redskins will get a 5th rounder to complete the deal. If the Saints only get the Redskins 4th round pick then Washington gets a 6th or 7th rounder to complete the deal

Washington has an undisclosed pick from Indianapolis - CB Justin Tyron

Since D-Nabb isn't going to the Pro Bowl and we aren't making the playoffs, we will receive the Saints 5th round pick from the Jammal Brown trade.

We will probably get a 6th rounder from the Colts for Tryon.


So here's the list of picks for 2011's Draft:

1
2
5
5
6
6
7

Possibly more 6th or 7th rounders with the supplemental picks...Ladell Betts, Antwaan Randle El, Todd Collins, Rock Cartwright.

thanks for the comprehensive explanation!

Here's what I do to fix the O Line this offseason....

LT - Nothing. Williams will be a stud in this league
LG - Sign Logan Mankins. That left side becomes GREAT instantly
C - 2nd rounder. I would rather trade down, and pick Wiesnewski late in the 1st, but that might not happen. You should be able to get a guy like Pouncey in the 2nd for Center. Maybe Wiesnewski slides down
RG - Sign Davin Joseph. He is currently on IR for the BUCS, but he is young and might be had cheap coming off an injury, plus has potential.
RT - Keep Brown. Resign him to a 2 yr deal with alot of incentives based on play on health. See how he does when healthy.

Yes you spend alot of money on the O Line, but I would not rather spend it anywhere else. That is what this team needs. Then use the draft for the 3-4 defense.

1st rounder - Adrian Claiborne. 290 lb pass rushing DE, played a 4-3 in college but at 6'3 290 lbs you would think he can hold up in a 3-4.

2nd Rounder - OLB. We need a pass rusher opposite of RAK desperatly.

The rest of the draft work on O Line depth and D Line, but you cant expect these picks to be starters. But our 1st and 2nd rounder should absolutely be starters next year.