The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Rodney Hudson
G/Florida State
Hudson is considered by most scouts as the top zone blocking guard from the senior class. He's a fluid athlete and easily moves around the field, effortlessly getting to the second level then removing linebackers or defensive backs from the action. 3rd Round Prospect

Sounds like exactly what we need. Maybe in the 2nd round if his stock improves since we don't have a 3rd round pick.

If we can trade down later in the 2nd round or early in the 3 round and get him and add another pick...I'll take any OL we can get.

I think we might want to look at a tackle in the first round as well, though that won't allow us to improve at WR, RB, or any defensive position we need.

Mississippi Hog wrote:I think we might want to look at a tackle in the first round as well, though that won't allow us to improve at WR, RB, or any defensive position we need.

NO, need to do either of those if we keep our current shabby OL. Improve the OL and you improve your RBs and WRs w/o spending a draft pick on them!

WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

I think we are OK at T if we resign Brown. Once he gets 100% healthy I think he'll be pretty good. I like Hudson and Wiesniewski (sp?). Most mocks I have looked at have Hudson as a low to mid 2nd rounder, a couple have him in the 1st round. Similar with Wiesnewski. Ideally we move down and pick up an extra 2nd...and pick both of these guys up.

Hudson goes to LG, Wiesnewski can play RG or C. I also would not mind picking up a stud LB in the 1st (Ayers from UCLA) and using our 2nd to pick 1 of these guys. Either way we need to do something up the middle. I think our OT play has been pretty decent this year, but when Mcnabb cant step up to miss DEs, it makes them look bad. Well folks, the reason he cant step up is our horrendous OC and OGs.

IDEALLY
LT - Williams
LG - Hudson (or sign Logan Mankins)
C - Monty (looked good vs TENN)
RG - Wiesnewski (Can also play Center)
RT - Brown (solid when healthy)

T - Capers/
Swing G/T - Hicks
G/C - Lichensteiger
G/T - Heyer

That IMHO is a excellent OL with excellent depth

Don't forget about Eric Cook who we drafted last year. Has anyone heard anything about how Cook and Capers might be progressing??? Maybe that's a question we can ask Andre Carter next week.

I read something awhile back saying Capers was struggling at RT, as he was always a LT, but he is showing potential and progressing. I also read Cook is really struggling to pick up the pro game, so we will see with him.

skinsfan#33 wrote:WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

The first four needs you identify are rarely drafted in the first round

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

The first four needs you identify are rarely drafted in the first round

Given the state of our O-line, I would sure be willing to make exceptions this year.

aswas71788 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

The first four needs you identify are rarely drafted in the first round

Given the state of our O-line, I would sure be willing to make exceptions this year.

There's a reason you don't typically draft those 4 positions in the first round...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

The first four needs you identify are rarely drafted in the first round

Given the state of our O-line, I would sure be willing to make exceptions this year.

There's a reason you don't typically draft those 4 positions in the first round...

Why is that?
I think it depends on the talent pool and on which year it is. If there are really good LG, RG, C, and FS prospects coming out they will be taken in the 1st round. Great players at these positions are just scarce so I don't think you can make a generalization that they shouldn't be taken in the 1st round.

Just like you can't say that a WR should never be taken in the 1st round. If you get the chance to take a really special WR in the 1st round like Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss you jump at the opportunity.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

The first four needs you identify are rarely drafted in the first round

Given the state of our O-line, I would sure be willing to make exceptions this year.

There's a reason you don't typically draft those 4 positions in the first round...

I am sure the Steelers regret drafting Pouncey last season. They should have gone with a skill position guy!

Last season, in the first round we saw

FS- Eric Berry 4th overall
FS- Earl Thomas 14th overall
OG- Mike Iupati 17th overall
OC- Maurkice Pouncey 18th overall

So in the very last draft we saw an example of each position, and with 22 positions and 32 picks I wouldn't say it's rare. Also, I wouldn't say there's a good reason for avoiding safteys or offensive guards and centers. (I mean, Sean Taylor, LaRon Landry, Alex Mack, Eric Wood, Kenny Phillips, Brandon Merriwether, Michael Griffin, Reggie Nelson, Ben Grubbs... yadda yadda, yadda.)

If we can all agree on the importance of a solid offensive line (that can obviously improve the quality of our offense) then why wouldn't an elite prospect make sense in the first round? Now we probably wouldn't use our sure to be top 10 pick on an interior lineman because of the perceived value the rest of the league puts on players. It would either be smarter to wait until the second round, or trade down. Typically it's easier to trade down with a mid round pick than with one of the higher ones where your options are limited and the draft hasn't opened up yet.

I wouldn't be opposed if the Redskins stood pat and drafted AJ Green (if he slips), Julio Jones, or even a skill guy like a running back to get the offense on track, but getting a guard or center in the first round isn't going to be a mistake.

MDSKINSFAN wrote:Why is that?
I think it depends on the talent pool and on which year it is. If there are really good LG, RG, C, and FS prospects coming out they will be taken in the 1st round. Great players at these positions are just scarce so I don't think you can make a generalization that they shouldn't be taken in the 1st round.

Just like you can't say that a WR should never be taken in the 1st round. If you get the chance to take a really special WR in the 1st round like Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss you jump at the opportunity.

So your plan is we find a "special" player at those positions in the first round?

Skinsfan55 wrote:Last season, in the first round we saw

FS- Eric Berry 4th overall
FS- Earl Thomas 14th overall
OG- Mike Iupati 17th overall
OC- Maurkice Pouncey 18th overall

So in the very last draft we saw an example of each position, and with 22 positions and 32 picks I wouldn't say it's rare

Ignoring that you're going by one year, so if our pick was #4, #14, #17 or #18, we'd have been golden...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

MDSKINSFAN wrote:Why is that?
I think it depends on the talent pool and on which year it is. If there are really good LG, RG, C, and FS prospects coming out they will be taken in the 1st round. Great players at these positions are just scarce so I don't think you can make a generalization that they shouldn't be taken in the 1st round.

Just like you can't say that a WR should never be taken in the 1st round. If you get the chance to take a really special WR in the 1st round like Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss you jump at the opportunity.

So your plan is we find a "special" player at those positions in the first round?

Nope, just saying that your generalization that those positions are rarely drafted in the 1st round and there is some exact reason for it is incorrect. Like I said it depends on the talent pool. If there is good talent at those positions they will be selected in the 1st round. No one that needs a LG or C is going to pass up a good one because it's the first round. SF55 made my point. Last years, talent at those positions was pretty good, some years it isn't. To say that they are "rarely" taken in the 1st round and there is a "reason" for it is a big generalization because it differs from draft to draft depending on teams draft positions, team needs, talent pool, etc.

The comment about the special player wasn't directed at the positions you mentioned, it was at another poster who said never draft a WR in the first round. While you can find good WR's later in the draft or even in undrafted FA, some players like the one's I mentioned along with AJ Green and Julio Jones are worthy of high picks because they can make an immediate impact on your team. Not many WR's can do that, but they can. But I do think in the 1st round it is always a goal to draft a great player. No team spends a 1st round pick on a guy they think is just a pretty good player. They want a guy that can help them win for years.

After looking back the last few years at the drafts, it seems that the top Center and sometimes the top 2 Centers are taken late in the 1st round, the top OG is usually taken in the 1st and the top FS is also usually taken. Obviously, this can change year to year.

That being said, FS is the position that goes the highest out of those 3, but thats only with a top notch prospect (Taylor, Berry). The top Center can go anywhere from mid to late 1st and Guards not far behind.

This being said, if we have a top 10 pick, we cant draft interior OL as that would be a reach. If we plan on using our 1st for an interior lineman we need to trade down and get a 1st rounder in the 18-32 range and pick up another pick. A 18-32 pick in the 1st would justify drafting the top OC or OG in the draft. (OC/OGWisniewski, OG Hudson) Just my thoughts..

skins2357 wrote:After looking back the last few years at the drafts, it seems that the top Center and sometimes the top 2 Centers are taken late in the 1st round, the top OG is usually taken in the 1st and the top FS is also usually taken. Obviously, this can change year to year.

That being said, FS is the position that goes the highest out of those 3, but thats only with a top notch prospect (Taylor, Berry). The top Center can go anywhere from mid to late 1st and Guards not far behind.

This being said, if we have a top 10 pick, we cant draft interior OL as that would be a reach. If we plan on using our 1st for an interior lineman we need to trade down and get a 1st rounder in the 18-32 range and pick up another pick. A 18-32 pick in the 1st would justify drafting the top OC or OG in the draft. (OC/OGWisniewski, OG Hudson) Just my thoughts..

True enough on the late first round. I'm thinking our pick will be higher then that. Even with Berry the discussion was the conflict of how you take that position that high versus that he really was someone special. As I pointed out, the plan "we find someone special" at one of those positions where we draft worth that high a pick is actually not a very good plan. Though it's great if it happens.

MDSKINSFAN wrote:Nope, just saying that your generalization that those positions are rarely drafted in the 1st round and there is some exact reason for it is incorrect. Like I said it depends on the talent pool. If there is good talent at those positions they will be selected in the 1st round. No one that needs a LG or C is going to pass up a good one because it's the first round. SF55 made my point. Last years, talent at those positions was pretty good, some years it isn't. To say that they are "rarely" taken in the 1st round and there is a "reason" for it is a big generalization because it differs from draft to draft depending on teams draft positions, team needs, talent pool, etc

Nice argument, except the stats don't back it up so it's an intellectual exercise. I said there's "a" reason, but actually there are multiple. The best linemen go T because of need and they know the pay would be better. They are also islands and require the best athletes. Interior have help on both sides. So you end up with the best going tackle and there's less skill slope so you can get someone almost as good in the second plus rounds. The stats do support that.

MDSKINSFAN wrote:The comment about the special player wasn't directed at the positions you mentioned, it was at another poster who said never draft a WR in the first round

OK, fair enough. I'm not saying "never" draft those positions either, I'm just saying they typically aren't drafted that high, especially high/mid first round unless there's a special player. I'd be thrilled if we get someone worth that high a pick in those positions. I'm just saying to plan for that to happen or force a pick on a guy not worth it is fools gold. I get you're not arguing against that.

I'm eating more food to gain weight and working out everyday.. I'll be playing on the OL for next season.. have no worries friends, I got this

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

aswas71788 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:WR should never be considered in the first round. Their just not important enough to warrant a 1st.

Draft order of need: LG, RG, C, FS, 3-4 OLB, 3-4 DE, RT and CB.

Ater you get all of those, then you can think about a WR or RB.

The first four needs you identify are rarely drafted in the first round

Given the state of our O-line, I would sure be willing to make exceptions this year.

There's a reason you don't typically draft those 4 positions in the first round...

The really special ones are drafted in those rounds and yes there is a reason for it!

I'm not saying reach, but we have to draft two OL in the first two rounds! We don't have the luxury of drafting a "toy". A WR and a RB is a toy!

I'm not saying we don't have a need at those positions but we absolutely can't afford to draft one.

If we improve our OL we make our QB, WRs and RBs better. Can you say the same for drafting a WR or RB?

MS has proven (if he has an OL) he can go down to the Kwickie Mart and pick up a 1000 yard rusher or two.

McNabb has proven that he can make Poo Poo WRs NFC Championship quality if he can stay up right long enough for them to get open. I don't like our WRs but you have to admit they are WAY better than Thrash, Stinksaton, and Fast mouth Freddie. #5 got to 5 NFC Championships with them.

If you hit on a perennial PB C you will aways have a running game and your passing game will be good. If you hit on a perennial PB WR you get a perennial PB WR and possibly no improvement in your team... A HoF C improves a team WAY more than a HoF WR!

If I was a GM, I would NEVER, ever, never draft a WR in the first round and almost never draft a RB in the first. But I wouldn't hesitate on drafting OL every year in the first two rounds.

If you replace our OL from the LG through the RG with Probowlers our team would be a championship contender. Can the same be said for putting 3 PB WR on our squad?

I rest my case!

As bad as we are at Tackle, we are MUCH worse at WR and guard. I would be looking to improve those areas. I wouldn't mind addressing WR via free agency, then maybe we could take a tackle or a rb.

To the people that say having good WR's isn't important, consider that pass plays now dominate everyone's game plan. There are two players involved. The one who throws and the one who catches. The one who throws cannot look good without the ones that catch. When was the last time we had a qb here that looked good? Exactly.

Think about how many points the Lions would have scored without Calvin Johnson, the Pack without Greg Jennings, the Falcons without Rowdy Roddy, the Chiefs without Dwayne Bowe, the Texans without Andre Johnson, the Bengals without T.O. (I said it), the Eagles without Jackson and the Pats without Welker. Also consider how much worse the Vikings have been without a healthy Sidney Rice. Same goes for Collie as well I suppose.

skinsfan#33 wrote:The really special ones are drafted in those rounds and yes there is a reason for it!

Yes, and the reason is that special players are taken high, not that being taken high makes them a special player. This is the point I've been making, not counter to it. Sure, if we end up with a "special" interior lineman or FS then I'm fine with it. But planning for that to happen is a lousy plan.

brad7686 wrote:As bad as we are at Tackle, we are MUCH worse at WR and guard. I would be looking to improve those areas. I wouldn't mind addressing WR via free agency, then maybe we could take a tackle or a rb.

To the people that say having good WR's isn't important, consider that pass plays now dominate everyone's game plan. There are two players involved. The one who throws and the one who catches. The one who throws cannot look good without the ones that catch. When was the last time we had a qb here that looked good? Exactly.

Think about how many points the Lions would have scored without Calvin Johnson, the Pack without Greg Jennings, the Falcons without Rowdy Roddy, the Chiefs without Dwayne Bowe, the Texans without Andre Johnson, the Bengals without T.O. (I said it), the Eagles without Jackson and the Pats without Welker. Also consider how much worse the Vikings have been without a healthy Sidney Rice. Same goes for Collie as well I suppose.

I think our WR should be the last thing addressed. They are better than what McNabb has in Philly when he was going to one NFC Championship after another!

Fix the OL, the DL, FS, and (1) OLB and the Skins will be a completely different team. Heck a good OL alone would make us a contender. You give #5 time and our WRs are plenty good enough. Open wide running lanes and our RB are plenty good enough.

The Lions SUCK with Calvin Johnson, The Texans still haven't made the playoffs with the best WR in football on their team, the Pats would be just fien w/o Welker (they have another one just like him - as long as they have Brady and good pass pro), the Eagles would be jusy fine w/o DJ (he isn't even their leading WR), Bowe is good but not specilal and the Chiefs still suck, Bengals were better w/o TO, and the Vikes haven't had Rice all year and no one new who he was before Favre! ANd Peyton has proven that it doesn't matter who he throws to!

brad7686 wrote:There are two players involved. The one who throws and the one who catches.

WRONG!

There are 11. If the OL doesn't give the QB time, that fancy WR runs 40 yards for nothing! If the RB or TE don't pick up the blitzer the WR never gets the ball! If the TE or slot WR doesn't scare the safeties or LBs then that WR is just doubled, maybe tripple (as the Eagle have done to Santana from time to time).

If the NFL was 7 on 7 drills you might be right, but it isn't! The most important position on offense is your QB, the next is OL, everything else is a distant third, forth, and fifth!

We are good at QB for a while, but we suck at OL. Until we fix the OL we shouldn't even think about adding toys! If your race car has no engine or chassis those fancy, ultra light magnesium wheels are just bling.

The most import position on your OL is LT and next is C followed by RT.