The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I've not seen a thread that specifically addresses this, so I figure I'll stir the pot as I've been accused of recently.

I was reserved, but gave Mike S the benefit of the doubt on the Haynesworth handling. Even with some shady "all but 1 guy can pass this conditioning test" nonsense or the sitting of Haynesworth vs a past rival when he played with TEN (talking about Peyton and the Colts).

I looked past the rotation of LGs and RTs even though no line that I've ever heard of has been successful doing it.

I questioned the McNabb trade from the very beginning but supported it b/c it was a done deal.

This most recent coaching decision takes the cake and I am beginning to have serious doubts. I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind honestly believes that Mike or even Kyle (b/c honestly, that's where it came from in my mind) thought, even for more than a nanosecond, that sexy Rexy, who hasn't played since pre-season, gave the skins anymore of a chance to win than McNabb. In ANY situation.

McNabb knew what the defense was doing. McNabb knew the tendancies of the defense by that point. McNabb stood in there behind a putrid offensive line that was truly on par with the crap that was fielded by the 2009 Redskins.

In the 4th quarter, contrary to some's knowledge, we were down to 1 RB, and that RB was K Williams. That would, I suspect, change the run every down game plan that some people have alluded to.

After all that, you bench the 6 time Pro Bowler. The 5 time NFC championship QB. For Rex. Grossman. Yes, Rex Grossman that followed Kyle from Houston free agent. You bench the guy we gave up a 2010 2nd round and 2011 3rd (or 4th) round for. You think the guy who hasn't seen a snap since August or early September for a healthy McNabb.

If anyone can enlighten me on how this can actually be plausible (no, we're not talkin winning the $300M lottery on $1 theory possible, but actually plausible, then I'm all ears. Until then, I'm openly questioning Mike AND Kyle on their mental competency after this final straw(exaggeration for effect ONLY on last statement.).

Did anyone else notice at one point after a botched offensive play Kyle mouthing "what the hell is he doing"? It looked like it was directed at McNabb personally. The decision was absurd but I think it speaks to the relationship (or lack thereof) between Kyle and McNabb. There have been a few other instances this year where it looks on the sideline like things aren't all that great between Kyle and McNabb.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Did anyone else notice at one point after a botched offensive play Kyle mouthing "what the hell is he doing"? It looked like it was directed at McNabb personally. The decision was absurd but I think it speaks to the relationship (or lack thereof) between Kyle and McNabb. There have been a few other instances this year where it looks on the sideline like things aren't all that great between Kyle and McNabb.

BMitch and the guys on CSN have made that point as well.

Mike Shanahan blew it big time yesterday and he compounded it with his post-game explanation. Even more damaging than the decision to bench McNabb was, I think Shanahan's repeated dishonesty will begin turning the team against he and his silver-spoon man-son.

If you thought Donovan was not playing well, just say you benched him for performance. If you benched him because he was hurt, just say so. If you benched him because he wasn't running the plays that Kyle called, then say so. Or say nothing.

But, to trot out there and say that you basically benched him because Grossman knows the 2minute offense better and gave us the best chance to win just makes him look like a heartless snake who can't be trusted and will throw anyone under the bus to protect him and his son.

I don't want to undermine what Mike has done so far. He's done some good. (Brandon Banks, Anthony Armstrong, Ryan Torrain etc were good finds)

But, apparently he watches a different game than we do, or his ego is interfering with his vision if he truly believes that Kory Lichen-sucker gives us a better chance to block than Derrick Dockery, and that Rex Grossman gives us a better chance to win than Donovan McNabb, or that Vonnie Holiday gave us the best chance to win as the lone down lineman than Albert Haynesworth.

His decisions can be questioned, but his explanations are always lies. Either be like Bill Belichick and say nothing at all, or tell the god-danged truth. He's killing his credibility and goodwill by appearing like a snake.

BTW - on that drive where we were up 25-20. McNabb threw a pick on 2nd and 10. WHY WERE WE THROWING THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION IS THE BETTER QUESTION? KYLE, EXPLAIN YOUR MADDENN 2010 PASS HAPPY PLAY CALLING WHEN RUNNING THE CLOCK DOWN WAS THE GOAL.

The Hogster wrote:BTW - on that drive where we were up 25-20. McNabb threw a pick on 2nd and 10. WHY WERE WE THROWING THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION IS THE BETTER QUESTION? KYLE, EXPLAIN YOUR MADDENN 2010 PASS HAPPY PLAY CALLING WHEN RUNNING THE CLOCK DOWN WAS THE GOAL.

We were down to 1 RB, so that may have influenced his decision. Torrain was down with a hammy and Williams was the only RB we had. I don't know if Darrel Young dressed so we only had Williams and Sellers. I do agree with your question and that's the only answer I can come up with, even though I don't agree with the plays called.

I wonder how many more games it will take before they put Derrick Dockery back in? I think he can help our center and LT some.

The Hogster wrote:BTW - on that drive where we were up 25-20. McNabb threw a pick on 2nd and 10. WHY WERE WE THROWING THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION IS THE BETTER QUESTION?

HOGGO, that my friend is what I want to know!!!! I was like, are you kidding me, a freakin pass when we have a 250lb RB who can run down this clock for us????????

So who'm I mad at? Mcnugget? No, not really because he hasn't changed his QB style, he still plays the same. The OLine? It's not their fault that they flat out suck, we shouldn't have them to begin with (See Vet's comment on how we managed to get them here). The coaching??? YUP!!!! I am flat out blaming the coaches on this one and that's something I hardly ever do! Wut the freakin freak man??????

... still though, we have 8 more games left and we WILL DO IT! Do what? I don't know, we'll do something goshdarnit!

We are in trouble. Perhaps not big cancer trouble but trouble nevertheless. And it can get a lot worse if the coaches lose the locker room.

Things against us yesterday:

1) Mike S has a big ego.

2) Between a QB and an offensive coach, Mike S will pick ... his son.

3) Donovan was not precise, he was beat up, tired and frustrated. I was afraid he might sustain an injury at any play.

4) We had a group of clowns dressed up as offensive linemen yesterday. They were completely owned in ways that should dismiss any well-intended hopes for a good season.

5) We had no running game after Torraine left with an injury.

6) the play calling was atrocious but what do you do when you have no running game and your pass protection stinks the house?.

I really think that this is a SERIOUS issue because a head coach always must stand by his players, ALWAYS, no matter what. Grossman never had a better chance to do anything in those 2 minutes not only because he is not a better QB than Macnab but because we had a group of clowns directing traffic posing as OL.

The only good positive thing was ... the hit which caused the fumble could have injured Macnab. Instead, it only hurt the big egoes of Mike and Kyle. Grossman will have a few days in the tub and he well be fine to hold the notepad for the rest of the season.

It is RIDICULOUS to make Donovan the scapegoat and pull him out of the game when true BLAME lied on the shoulders of the OL and the OL staff which had no adjustments or anything to save the play of the QB whoever it was for the entire game.

We knew that we had no OL since last season. Well, we might have improved a little with T. Williams, who might not be 100%, but as far as the rest of them is concerned, they would be a liability as backups, let alone starters in any team.

langleyparkjoe wrote:

The Hogster wrote:BTW - on that drive where we were up 25-20. McNabb threw a pick on 2nd and 10. WHY WERE WE THROWING THE BALL IN THAT SITUATION IS THE BETTER QUESTION?

HOGGO, that my friend is what I want to know!!!! I was like, are you kidding me, a freakin pass when we have a 250lb RB who can run down this clock for us????????

So who'm I mad at? Mcnugget? No, not really because he hasn't changed his QB style, he still plays the same. The OLine? It's not their fault that they flat out suck, we shouldn't have them to begin with (See Vet's comment on how we managed to get them here). The coaching??? YUP!!!! I am flat out blaming the coaches on this one and that's something I hardly ever do! Wut the freakin freak man??????

... still though, we have 8 more games left and we WILL DO IT! Do what? I don't know, we'll do something goshdarnit!

Exactly. Kyle has to understand 2 things as a young O Coordinator. 1) A great coordinator can "scheme" to his talent as opposed to forcing players (that you brought in) to do things that do not suit their strengths and 2) your AFC South scheme against smallish defenses like the Colts does not necessarily work against mammoth sized NFC teams. As a result, while Kory freakin Lichtensucker might "fit the scheme" better, he doesn't matchup well with the defensive linemen he will face. I shudder to think what Justin Tuck will do to he and Rabach. To have Derrick Dockery in street clothes while your interior line is getting blown up consistently is just sickening. Who is even the backup LG and Center? our line is thinner than a sheet of loose leaf tissue paper.

I will just say one more thing:

If Mike Shannahan is a really a good head coach, HE SHOULD ASSUME COMPLETE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS LOSS and the embarrassment of the whole situation.

Redskin in Canada wrote:I will just say one more thing:

If Mike Shannahan is a really a good head coach, HE SHOULD ASSUME COMPLETE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS LOSS and the embarrassment of the whole situation.

But the post game presser, he did no such thing. He actually used the excuse, "best chance to win." I don't want to hear a presser that he's had a day to make excuses (i.e. 3pm today). He's already ddug his whole. The only thing that can dig him out in my eyes is a change of heart and subsequent actions...but his words are CRAP and have been in hindsight under this new McNabb situation's light.

He looks like a guy you can't trust. Can anyone ever hear Gibbs saying something like this?

The Hogster wrote:He looks like a guy you can't trust. Can anyone ever hear Gibbs saying something like this?

That was my thought ...

... we always even made fun of the well predicted press conferences by Joe Gibbs II ...

"it starts with me" "I failed to prepare the team" "The team fought hard" "I did not do enough" "Blame starts with me" etc

He never, ever left one player out there to hang and dry by the media ...

Donovan looks just like the perfect gentleman and player with a lot of dignity and professionalism on the field and in front of the media.

HAVING said all of this ....

... if Shannahan says later on that he removed Macnab because he was affraid that the play of the whorehouse called the OL of the Washington Redskins was so dirt poor that he thought he needed to protect Macnab for the rest of the season, I would understand it.

But NOTHING that we know up to now leads me even to suspect that this was the motivation.

I am starting to have my doubts about Shanahan and his son. They both seem to be ego maniacs that think they are always right and refuse to adjust. I don't care if Mike Sellers is the only guy left to run, you run. Kyle ignoring the run game has cost us games this year and it will cost us more. Everyone makes a big deal about Kyle calling the top offense in the league last year, yet they ignore the fact that his offense couldn't get in the playoffs and had the 2nd worst running game in the league. His playcalling has been horrible all year. He fails to adjust to the fact that he doesn't have the offensive line to call these deep, long developing pass plays. Establish a run game and call plays that get the ball out of McNabb's hands. Looking back I am starting to think Shanahan completely mishandled the Haynesworth situation. Haynesworth has turned the tables on Shanahan. It was Mike making Al look like an idiot and now its the other way around. When ever Al is in he is a force. I'm sick of the excuses that Mike makes like he is doing what "gives the team the best chance to win" or that he is doing what is the best for the team. I want to trust him, but someone please explain to me how keeping one of the top DT's in the league out of the game helps your team. I agree with B Mitch, I'm not going to sit around and blindly follow this guy because of his resume. I want to see him run this team with his ego put to the side and actually do what is best for the team. Pulling your best QB is not what is best for the team.

Yes MS and company have made some stupid mistakes. Like trading for Donovan to begin with. You need a line first. Changing to a 34 when we really are suited for the 43 and need to fill many holes on offense.

I can understand benching Donovan but not at that point in the game. It is both unfair to Donovan and Rex. If Donovan plays better than he has he might not be over throwing or under throwing wide open receivers. #5 is way better than Rex. The only reason I see benching him is because he is part of the problem along with the line. Give that man time and he will play better. If we do not sign Donovan then I will really be ticked off because of the wasted draft picks.

As far as Kyle goes...I see receivers getting open down field. His offense is working and yes he should have run the ball at the end. I blame that on MS. He should step in and nip that in the bud. After all who is the head coach here?

MDSKINSFAN wrote: Kyle ignoring the run game has cost us games this year and it will cost us more. His playcalling has been horrible all year. He fails to adjust to the fact that he doesn't have the offensive line to call these deep, long developing pass plays. Establish a run game and call plays that get the ball out of McNabb's hands.

Looking back I am starting to think Shanahan completely mishandled the Haynesworth situation. Haynesworth has turned the tables on Shanahan.

I'm sick of the excuses that Mike makes like he is doing what "gives the team the best chance to win" or that he is doing what is the best for the team.

I have a ton of responses to everything that has been said on this thread, but I think that MDSkins has summarized the consensus fairly well. So, I will respond to his post.

In terms of the running game and Kyle's inability to adjust -- I tend to agree with one major exception: I think everyone here can agree that our OL is so bad that they cannot adequately run block. It is no secret that pass pro is much easier to accomplish than run blocking. Kyle has adjusted to this fact. We throw the ball much more often than running because our passing game is that much more effective. I remember watching the WAS-HOU game and hoping that they not run the ball the rest of the game -- and they basically didn't. And honestly, if he doesn't have the OL to adequately run the ball nor the OL to throw deep, then what type of plays can he run? If you can't run or pass deep, then defenses will have an pretty easy time defending. In all sincerity, I am not sure that this team can have a solid running game without new OL personnel. I find it glaringly obvious that we can't run the ball, so I am not sure why we are critizing him for not running the ball more.

I never really thought that MS handled the AH situation well, but then again, he was attempting to set a precedent to the other players and personally, I think that this precedent is one of the reasons that the team has changed their attitude. Besides, I hate the fact that 1 month ago everyone was praising MS for how he was dealing with AH, and now that things aren't going well, people (some of the same people) are ridiculing him for it. I just don't get it. If I were in MSs' shoes, I honestly wouldn't have treated AH the same way (then again, I am a fairly diplomatic person), but the coach needs to be the coach. I personally think that he went about it in the wrong way -- and basically went on an ego-trip, but whats done is done. He now needs to get on the same page as his players. It is always the ultimate question as a coach: is it better to be feared than loved? IMHO, it is a little of both. I think that MS would prefer to be feared.

Now the MS press conference was ridiculous. Saying that RG placed this team in a better position to win is certifiably insane. RG is just a downright bad QB. It was no secret that throughout the game DMc was getting pressured constantly. So what was going through MSs' head to think that putting in a slower thinking, slower moving, pocket QB was the correct decision???? That was one of the most idiotic decisions I have seen a coach make in a very long time. I can honestly say that there was a 0% chance RG was going to lead this team to score a TD in the final 2 minutes. That was a pure display of ego on the part of MS and his son KS. It could have been mitigated by MS coming to the press conference and saying that he thought it gave them the best chance to win, but he was wrong and that he takes responsibility for that decision. But he didn't do that.

markshark84 wrote:I never really thought that MS handled the AH situation well, but then again, he was attempting to set a precedent to the other players and personally, I think that this precedent is one of the reasons that the team has changed their attitude. Besides, I hate the fact that 1 month ago everyone was praising MS for how he was dealing with AH, and now that things aren't going well, people (some of the same people) are ridiculing him for it. I just don't get it. If I were in MSs' shoes, I honestly wouldn't have treated AH the same way (then again, I am a fairly diplomatic person), but the coach needs to be the coach. I personally think that he went about it in the wrong way -- and basically went on an ego-trip, but whats done is done. He now needs to get on the same page as his players. It is always the ultimate question as a coach: is it better to be feared than loved? IMHO, it is a little of both. I think that MS would prefer to be feared.

I never thought that highly of the Shanahan vs Haynesworth thing and the way Shanahan handled it, but I did admit that we didn't know and never would know everythign that went on. I also know that Haynesworth didn't help the situation with his actions.

In hindsight between Shanahan vs Haynesworth, benching Dock, and now benching McNabb (and even the Thomas cut makes me think), I'm wondering how much is totalitarian vs for the good of the team.

According to Mike Lombardi of the NFL Network, Randy Moss has been waived by the team. Wow.

I say make a play for this guy. Not only do we need a legitimate red zone threat, but we also need something to take the attention away from this horrible decision by Shanahan for the next two weeks.

Well there you have it ... a CONSENSUS opinion from everyone? How often does that happen around here?

I must say that I was originally hoping that the Redskins would get Jon Gruden to coach the team ... I love that guy's fire, and his ability to get guys playing with fire.

In any event, I though Shanahan was the next best choice, and early on it looked like he was going to provide a solid foundation of stability ... and I thought that Kyle would provide that explosiveness that all of us have longed for on offense. A completely different picture is beginning to emerge, and in retrospect, I think most of us understood that Fat Albert was behaving like a spoiled child, but once he got into camp ... Shanahan just abused him in an act of ego driven ... I'm God ... how dare you oppose me, retaliation.

And as evidence mounts, it looks like those suspicions were correct, not just in the case of Albert, but in how this team runs everything, including his Son's decisions on offense, which, in my monday morning QB opinion has cost the team at least 2 wins, and possibly 3.

I don't know if anyone else saw the comparison between the Redskin offensive philosophy, and of Philly in how they used McNabb, but for those that didn't .. it was described as completely reversed .... in Philly's WC system, McNabb's progression is 1-short 2-intermediate 3-deep rout progression, but in the Kyle system it's 1-deep 2-intermediate 3-short. Now Kyle's system is geared more to big plays and explosion ... but it's only going to work if there is GOOD pass pro ... not average .. or in our case, extremely poor. And it seems at this stage ... the nut doesn't fall far from the tree with regard to stubbornness, as our continued poor 2nd half performances suggest. There seems to be a complete unwillingness or inability of this system or coach to adapt to what the opposing defenses do against us , or what McNabb is best suited for executing.

Yesterday's decision to bench McNabb is inconceivable from a pure strategy angle ... and indicates to me a situation is developing that says "dad, it's not my offense ... it's the players ... dad you saw what I did the last two years in Houston ... those plays are there ... the players just aren't making the plays".

I don't think we can underestimate or discount the idea that a Dad's pride and protectiveness toward their sons might not become a serious liability to the effective management if this team on an offense that seems to be regressing (which in my mind simply means that opposing defenses are figuring out how to defend against it, and little in the way of altering the offense in response is being done.)

Personally, what I've noticed is that in order to convince Kyle Shanahan to totally abandon the run game is to just stack the box and stop the run early ... and he'll leave it abandoned for the rest of the game, making the Skins offense single dimensional, allowing those defenses to just focus entirely on the pass.

And I am in total agreement with many who believe that Mike Shanahan will expose himself as a total fraud .... and a complete opposite of Joe Gibbs if he comes out here and doesn't take the blame for making a series of poor decisions ... starting with failing to run the ball more ... failing to switch to quicker developing plays to counteract that MANHANDLING on the line, followed by throwing McNabb under the bus at the end, rather than owning up to the real issues ... that he and his Son are responsible for the poor offensive showing thus far.

I wondered how long this would take. Living here in Denver and watching Shanahan mis-handle players became common place. But listen, we knew this (or should have known) when we brought him here. He has the largest ego of anyone on our team and will always make decisions based on that ego so this is not surprising. Still, he represents a better coaching foundation then we've seen in some time (minus Gibbs) around here and if given the talent he will succeed. Aside from Elway, he's treated all his qb's the same way even benching Bubby Brister (whom he claimed was his starter all off-season and pre-season) right before week 1 to start rookie Brian Griese. He flipped between steve buerlein, griese, brister, plummer, etc. and treated guys like Daryl Gardner and others with an iron fist....this is old hat. He'll probably start rotating D coordinators at seasons end and overhauling the D-line every off-season if they don't perform just as he did here. Minus Elway, Shanahan was close to a .500 coach and half way through the season that's exactly where we're at.

All those other names are just average names though... Elway stands out just as McNabb should stand out.

Shanahan left McNabb hanging out to dry yesterday. A ludicrous decision, one that I fail to understand on any level.

Don't have any more to say than that!

Shanahan is totally blowing this Monday press conference. Now he's saying McNabb's cardio is why they benched him.

He's a tool. Bye bye locker room. What a liar.

The Hogster wrote:Shanahan is totally blowing this Monday press conference. Now he's saying McNabb's cardio is why they benched him.

He's a tool. Bye bye locker room. What a liar.

Just like I said. A day to get lies in order.

I'm not watching it, so if you can highlight it for us, that'd be great!

The Hogster wrote:Shanahan is totally blowing this Monday press conference. Now he's saying McNabb's cardio is why they benched him.

He's a tool. Bye bye locker room. What a liar.

Yeah and then a guy calls him out for having a completely different explanation yesterday and he says that he didn't have enough time to explain.