The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5414820

CINCINNATI -- A year after they were featured on HBO's "Hard Knocks," the Bengals have scripted their own reality show.

T.O. and Ocho. Two self-conscious stars, one NFL team.

How will they fit? How will it work? Which receiver will provide most of the drama?

And, more important, will any of it help the Bengals get back to the playoffs?

The Bengals and receiver Terrell Owens agreed to a two-year, $2 million deal, a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter on Tuesday.

A league source tells ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter the deal also includes another $2 million in incentives. Owens could earn $333,000 each for passing the following milestones: 60 catches, 100 catches, 900 receiving yards, 1,300 receiving yards, 10 touchdowns and 14 touchdowns.

The Bengals were Owens' first choice, giving him a chance to team with close friend Chad Ochocinco, who has already dubbed the pair Batman and Robin. The Bengals made an offer on Monday, and Owens accepted a day later.

More at the link.

Eh, I figured it wasn't going to happen. He doesn't have great hands anyway, which is what kills our team, being that our receivers drop EVERYTHING. Aside from the TE's. Although he would have added to the big play ability.

I have to say I had gotten to the point where I wouldn't have minded us signing him. He had a very quiet year in Buffalo, and I think he realizes that he is at the tail end of his career — and very far from the spotlight.

Then again, the fact that we signed McNabb pretty much squashed the chances that we'd get him.

Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say I had gotten to the point where I wouldn't have minded us signing him. He had a very quiet year in Buffalo, and I think he realizes that he is at the tail end of his career — and very far from the spotlight.

Then again, the fact that we signed McNabb pretty much squashed the chances that we'd get him.

1 out of 14 isn't good gambling odds.

Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say I had gotten to the point where I wouldn't have minded us signing him. He had a very quiet year in Buffalo, and I think he realizes that he is at the tail end of his career — and very far from the spotlight.

Then again, the fact that we signed McNabb pretty much squashed the chances that we'd get him.

He's been behaved well generally his first year on a team. However, I think his skills as a WR have declined noticeably in the past 2 years. I'm also not sure he's willing to be a #3 WR, which is essentially his skill set now.

PulpExposure wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say I had gotten to the point where I wouldn't have minded us signing him. He had a very quiet year in Buffalo, and I think he realizes that he is at the tail end of his career — and very far from the spotlight.

Then again, the fact that we signed McNabb pretty much squashed the chances that we'd get him.

He's been behaved well generally his first year on a team. However, I think his skills as a WR have declined noticeably in the past 2 years. I'm also not sure he's willing to be a #3 WR, which is essentially his skill set now.

No, He's still substantially better than any of our receivers. You have to remember he played in friggin Buffalo last year. He is still bigger faster stronger than our guys.

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say I had gotten to the point where I wouldn't have minded us signing him. He had a very quiet year in Buffalo, and I think he realizes that he is at the tail end of his career — and very far from the spotlight.

Then again, the fact that we signed McNabb pretty much squashed the chances that we'd get him.

He's been behaved well generally his first year on a team. However, I think his skills as a WR have declined noticeably in the past 2 years. I'm also not sure he's willing to be a #3 WR, which is essentially his skill set now.

No, He's still substantially better than any of our receivers. You have to remember he played in friggin Buffalo last year. He is still bigger faster stronger than our guys.

I'm not so sure of that. Yes, he played in Buffalo, though I wouldn't consider their QBs much worse than Campbell, honestly. And of his 829 yards last year, 197 came in one game. He didn't have a single 100 yard game otherwise. In 2008, playing with a good QB (Romo), he had 1052 yards...but that's only because he had 213 against the Niners, and had one other 100 yard game besides that (103 yards in that pathetic end of the year shellacking by Philly, who played prevent after the first 20 minutes or so).

If you look at his performance the past 2 years, even as the #1 WR, he had 15 games with 2 or 3 catches. FIFTEEN. 50% of the time he was out...he caught 2 or 3 balls. That's awful production; even considering that he played for Buffalo.

Hell, in 2008, Lee Evans, playing with the same crappy group of Buffalo QBs, at least had 4 100 yard games that season. One more than Owens has had in the past 2 years.

To me, that says that Owens's production has been subpar, and he's on the decline. Football Outsiders seems to agree, as his DVOA (their adjusted stat measuring value) shows him declining...markedly. However, if you have some empirical evidence that's just not true, I'd love to see it.

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:I have to say I had gotten to the point where I wouldn't have minded us signing him. He had a very quiet year in Buffalo, and I think he realizes that he is at the tail end of his career — and very far from the spotlight.

Then again, the fact that we signed McNabb pretty much squashed the chances that we'd get him.

He's been behaved well generally his first year on a team. However, I think his skills as a WR have declined noticeably in the past 2 years. I'm also not sure he's willing to be a #3 WR, which is essentially his skill set now.

No, He's still substantially better than any of our receivers. You have to remember he played in friggin Buffalo last year. He is still bigger faster stronger than our guys.

I'm not so sure of that. Yes, he played in Buffalo, though I wouldn't consider their QBs much worse than Campbell, honestly. And of his 829 yards last year, 197 came in one game. He didn't have a single 100 yard game otherwise. In 2008, playing with a good QB (Romo), he had 1052 yards...but that's only because he had 213 against the Niners, and had one other 100 yard game besides that (103 yards in that pathetic end of the year shellacking by Philly, who played prevent after the first 20 minutes or so).

If you look at his performance the past 2 years, even as the #1 WR, he had 15 games with 2 or 3 catches. FIFTEEN. 50% of the time he was out...he caught 2 or 3 balls. That's awful production; even considering that he played for Buffalo.

Hell, in 2008, Lee Evans, playing with the same crappy group of Buffalo QBs, at least had 4 100 yard games that season. One more than Owens has had in the past 2 years.

To me, that says that Owens's production has been subpar, and he's on the decline. Football Outsiders seems to agree, as his DVOA (their adjusted stat measuring value) shows him declining...markedly. However, if you have some empirical evidence that's just not true, I'd love to see it.

They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

Owens is probably better than a lot of wideouts BUT not many teams just want the most talented player, they want players that make the team better

I don't think that Mike or Kyle thought that having TO was necessarily making our offense better or our team better

we no longer just add talented players here Like Vinny and Danny did for the last 10 years - we now have a FO that is trying to add players that make other players around them better

brad7686 wrote:They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

To be fair to our receivers, they played in a system last year which (1) involved a lot of short passes, killing their YAC; and (2) involved a QB who couldn't hit people in stride, also killing their YAC.

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

To be fair to our receivers, they played in a system last year which (1) involved a lot of short passes, killing their YAC; and (2) involved a QB who couldn't hit people in stride, also killing their YAC.

I see the Campbell hatred is still running rampant. Now that McNabb is here and they can't blame everything on JC, people will see just how bad our receiving corps is. It is bad. And Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick combo is much worse than Campbell. Also, It wasn't just the Zorn era where our receivers have a lower yards per catch than T.O., its a career trend.

Having an opinion that Campbell was not a decent or good NFL QB for this franchise is not hatred - that is just a fact

Jason Campbell was a loser - hopefully now that he's a Raider he can be a lot more successful


I wish him the best but he was not even close to being good

good QBs don't need the best wideouts like TO and the best offensive line and the best running backs - they make things happen


Owens going to the Bengals might work out but it will be because the other players & coaches make it work NOT just because they have TO

SkinsJock wrote:Having an opinion that Campbell was not a decent or good NFL QB for this franchise is not hatred - that is just a fact

Jason Campbell was a loser - hopefully now that he's a Raider he can be a lot more successful


I wish him the best but he was not even close to being good

good QBs don't need the best wideouts like TO and the best offensive line and the best running backs - they make things happen


Owens going to the Bengals might work out but it will be because the other players & coaches make it work NOT just because they have TO

He's still making that NFL money and was just named the starter for the Raiders, taking Russel's job. Yup, that constitutes a loser to me.

He might not be a loser as a Raider but nothing can change the fact that he was a loser playing QB for the Redskins


I wish him well and hope that the players and coaches can help him be successful - he has shown that he needs all the parts around him to be in place - he is not going to be a good NFL QB unless he gets a lot of help

TO has shown that he can perform at the highest level - it remains to be seen how effective he can still be as a part of the Bengals' receiving corps


some players can adapt and be effective with other teams - some just don't ever get it

SkinsJock wrote:He might not be a loser as a Raider but nothing can change the fact that he was a loser playing QB for the Redskins


I wish him well and hope that the players and coaches can help him be successful - he has shown that he needs all the parts around him to be in place - he is not going to be a good NFL QB unless he gets a lot of help

TO has shown that he can perform at the highest level - it remains to be seen how effective he can still be as a part of the Bengals' receiving corps


some players can adapt and be effective with other teams - some just don't ever get it

He was handcuffed behind an atrocious line with Mr Medium Swinging Gate Zorn at the helm, who was so bad, they had to bring in a bingo caller to take his place. JC's no Peyton or Joe, but damn, he's a lot better than some of the garbage we've had in the past decade.

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

To be fair to our receivers, they played in a system last year which (1) involved a lot of short passes, killing their YAC; and (2) involved a QB who couldn't hit people in stride, also killing their YAC.

I see the Campbell hatred is still running rampant. Now that McNabb is here and they can't blame everything on JC, people will see just how bad our receiving corps is. It is bad. And Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick combo is much worse than Campbell. Also, It wasn't just the Zorn era where our receivers have a lower yards per catch than T.O., its a career trend.

Oh come on. I don't hate the guy, and I definitely think he's gotten more crap than he deserved here. But he DID have issues hitting wide receivers in stride. I think Campbell had been burned so badly in the past, he was gun shy on interceptions, and instead would wait to throw the ball until the receiver had completed their route, stopped and turned. Certainly a safer throw, but also allowed the receiver no YAC. After all, there's got to be a reason why Moss's YPC last year was the lowest of his career, and why Moss's YPC under Campbell (13.2, 13.2, 12.9) were far lower than under other QBs (varied from 20.0 to 14.4 at the lowest).

VetSkinsFan wrote:He's still making that NFL money and was just named the starter for the Raiders, taking Russel's job. Yup, that constitutes a loser to me.

I guess we'll see. Taking Russel's job isn't impressive. He doesn't have a whole lot to work with in Oakland, but nevertheless if he's a good QB he should be able to make something happen there.

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

To be fair to our receivers, they played in a system last year which (1) involved a lot of short passes, killing their YAC; and (2) involved a QB who couldn't hit people in stride, also killing their YAC.

I see the Campbell hatred is still running rampant. Now that McNabb is here and they can't blame everything on JC, people will see just how bad our receiving corps is. It is bad. And Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick combo is much worse than Campbell. Also, It wasn't just the Zorn era where our receivers have a lower yards per catch than T.O., its a career trend.

Oh come on. I don't hate the guy, and I definitely think he's gotten more crap than he deserved here. But he DID have issues hitting wide receivers in stride. I think Campbell had been burned so badly in the past, he was gun shy on interceptions, and instead would wait to throw the ball until the receiver had completed their route, stopped and turned. Certainly a safer throw, but also allowed the receiver no YAC. After all, there's got to be a reason why Moss's YPC last year was the lowest of his career, and why Moss's YPC under Campbell (13.2, 13.2, 12.9) were far lower than under other QBs (varied from 20.0 to 14.4 at the lowest).

Moss has a lower ypc with Campbell because he has terrible hands, and can only catch balls thrown epically soft, by guys like Chad Pennington, Mark Brunell, and Todd Collins. He caught a lot more deep passes with those guys because he could handle the pass. McNabb throws harder than them, so I don't expect much improvement. If I was Campbell, I wouldn't have thrown the ball to Moss downfield either. Not that he had any better choices. Kelly is supposed to have good hands and he had a deep ball go right through his arms. Moss doesn't even fight corners for a deep ball if he isn't completely wide open. ey and Davis are the only people on the team that have NFL hands.

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

To be fair to our receivers, they played in a system last year which (1) involved a lot of short passes, killing their YAC; and (2) involved a QB who couldn't hit people in stride, also killing their YAC.

I see the Campbell hatred is still running rampant. Now that McNabb is here and they can't blame everything on JC, people will see just how bad our receiving corps is. It is bad. And Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick combo is much worse than Campbell. Also, It wasn't just the Zorn era where our receivers have a lower yards per catch than T.O., its a career trend.

Oh come on. I don't hate the guy, and I definitely think he's gotten more crap than he deserved here. But he DID have issues hitting wide receivers in stride. I think Campbell had been burned so badly in the past, he was gun shy on interceptions, and instead would wait to throw the ball until the receiver had completed their route, stopped and turned. Certainly a safer throw, but also allowed the receiver no YAC. After all, there's got to be a reason why Moss's YPC last year was the lowest of his career, and why Moss's YPC under Campbell (13.2, 13.2, 12.9) were far lower than under other QBs (varied from 20.0 to 14.4 at the lowest).

Moss has a lower ypc with Campbell because he has terrible hands, and can only catch balls thrown epically soft, by guys like Chad Pennington, Mark Brunell, and Todd Collins. He caught a lot more deep passes with those guys because he could handle the pass. McNabb throws harder than them, so I don't expect much improvement. If I was Campbell, I wouldn't have thrown the ball to Moss downfield either. Not that he had any better choices. Kelly is supposed to have good hands and he had a deep ball go right through his arms. Moss doesn't even fight corners for a deep ball if he isn't completely wide open. ey and Davis are the only people on the team that have NFL hands.

Heh. You think Moss has terrible hands, and you still wanted TO?

We could have nicknamed our receivers "Hands of Stone."

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:They did everything they could not to throw the ball in Buffalo last year. They had friggin Ryan Fitzpatrick in at one point. He still has had over 15 yards a catch average as of late, which is a lot better than our receivers. I definitely don't think you can take two of our receivers and say they are better. Personally, I would still take him over Moss.

To be fair to our receivers, they played in a system last year which (1) involved a lot of short passes, killing their YAC; and (2) involved a QB who couldn't hit people in stride, also killing their YAC.

I see the Campbell hatred is still running rampant. Now that McNabb is here and they can't blame everything on JC, people will see just how bad our receiving corps is. It is bad. And Trent Edwards/Ryan Fitzpatrick combo is much worse than Campbell. Also, It wasn't just the Zorn era where our receivers have a lower yards per catch than T.O., its a career trend.

Oh come on. I don't hate the guy, and I definitely think he's gotten more crap than he deserved here. But he DID have issues hitting wide receivers in stride. I think Campbell had been burned so badly in the past, he was gun shy on interceptions, and instead would wait to throw the ball until the receiver had completed their route, stopped and turned. Certainly a safer throw, but also allowed the receiver no YAC. After all, there's got to be a reason why Moss's YPC last year was the lowest of his career, and why Moss's YPC under Campbell (13.2, 13.2, 12.9) were far lower than under other QBs (varied from 20.0 to 14.4 at the lowest).

Moss has a lower ypc with Campbell because he has terrible hands, and can only catch balls thrown epically soft, by guys like Chad Pennington, Mark Brunell, and Todd Collins. He caught a lot more deep passes with those guys because he could handle the pass. McNabb throws harder than them, so I don't expect much improvement. If I was Campbell, I wouldn't have thrown the ball to Moss downfield either. Not that he had any better choices. Kelly is supposed to have good hands and he had a deep ball go right through his arms. Moss doesn't even fight corners for a deep ball if he isn't completely wide open. ey and Davis are the only people on the team that have NFL hands.

Heh. You think Moss has terrible hands, and you still wanted TO?

We could have nicknamed our receivers "Hands of Stone."

It's kind of different, T.O. also drops a lot of passes, but he is a bigger target and makes some tough catches, two things moss does not bring to the table.

Well... TO will be dropping passes for the Bengals, now, so this is all pretty moot... eh?