The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

It still a concern for me. The new coach doesn't have the resume that I would be giddy about. Lets face it, he ain't Alex Gibbs. The Oline will surely be improved from past but still.... Center comes to mind, as well as RT.

Agreed. Rabach is pure beetle dung. We need more bodies for competition. I hope this Capers kid pans out. That would be sweet.

For the life of me I still can't get over the 2008 draft. All those picks in the second and Fred Davis looks like the only one that can play. Pathetic. Should of picked 3 OL...

FlyinO wrote:Agreed. Rabach is pure beetle dung. We need more bodies for competition. I hope this Capers kid pans out. That would be sweet.

For the life of me I still can't get over the 2008 draft. All those picks in the second and Fred Davis looks like the only one that can play. Pathetic. Should of picked 3 OL...

I'm still staggered we haven't done more for the OL. Who knows if Trent Williams will pan out. He was a risky choice. Dockery and Rabach are below average, Hicks shoud be a backup and Mike Williams is a question mark.

I think our offense will fall apart, injuries or none. I just can't see such a problematic bunch cutting it in the NFL. The neglect continues.

Well everything I hear about Cook says that he is the real deal and was a great pick. Maybe he will step up this yr if Rabach gets hurt? Also Capers had a much higher grade in the draft then where we got him so he must have some talent. Maybe he steps up then you can move Hicks to RG (where he should be playing IMO)

Other than that I completely agree. We have no depth at all. If Dockery or BMW gets hurt, we have noone worth a crap behind them at OG. I still wish we could have signed a starting RT and had Hicks playing RG, atleast then you would have BMW as a backup guard which would be a quality depth spot. Instead BMW is our starting RG and Montgomery is our Backup OG. Doesnt seem quite as assuring from my stand point.

For all the people complaining about the oline moves, I'm curious to know what other moves you would have made. The team is obviously aware that oline was a problem last year and has taken steps to correct that. However, they aren't going to be able to totally revamp the line in one offseason. Taking Williams is a good start and the Capers pick was great value. I'm sure that they'll continue making over the line next offseason, and if any trades or signings become possible this year, I'm sure Shanahan/Allen will make a move if it makes sense.

CanesSkins26 wrote:For all the people complaining about the oline moves, I'm curious to know what other moves you would have made. The team is obviously aware that oline was a problem last year and has taken steps to correct that. However, they aren't going to be able to totally revamp the line in one offseason. Taking Williams is a good start and the Capers pick was great value. I'm sure that they'll continue making over the line next offseason, and if any trades or signings become possible this year, I'm sure Shanahan/Allen will make a move if it makes sense.

People complain for the sake of complaining. You can't say that this O Line will not be much improved. Artis Hicks is an upgrade over Heyer...Mike Williams lost 100 pounds just to play last year, and he was playing Right Tackle at times. He has to be physically better at this point and focusing on one position will help.

Give this scheme and the new players a chance. We also have a QB who is a bit more decisive. What is out there that we could have gotten without mortgaging the future??? Jamaal Brown and Jared Gaither would have required draft picks.

There is no magic fix that would appease everyone. We didn't overpay Pashos or another Free Agent, and Selvish Capers may become a starter.

FlyinO wrote:Agreed. Rabach is pure beetle dung. We need more bodies for competition. I hope this Capers kid pans out. That would be sweet.

For the life of me I still can't get over the 2008 draft. All those picks in the second and Fred Davis looks like the only one that can play. Pathetic. Should of picked 3 OL...

1) Rabach isn't "beetle dung". While not a pro bowler, he is decent.
2) We have 15 OL's on roster. How many do you want?
3) Do you have any OL's in mind?

CanesSkins26 wrote:For all the people complaining about the oline moves, I'm curious to know what other moves you would have made. The team is obviously aware that oline was a problem last year and has taken steps to correct that. However, they aren't going to be able to totally revamp the line in one offseason. Taking Williams is a good start and the Capers pick was great value. I'm sure that they'll continue making over the line next offseason, and if any trades or signings become possible this year, I'm sure Shanahan/Allen will make a move if it makes sense.

Agreed this is a building process. I would be thrilled with 8-8 and would not be surprised if we broke 9+ games this year. Feels good to be optimistic once again.

yupchagee wrote:
1) Rabach isn't "beetle dung". While not a pro bowler, he is decent.
2) We have 15 OL's on roster. How many do you want?
3) Do you have any OL's in mind?

1) Rabach is indeed 100% pure beetle dung. He always gets pushed backwards and is exceptionally weak. He never wins the battle on the LOS. Pretty sure I saw an analysis last year that said Rabach was one of the worst centers in the league with regards to blocking. I could be mistaken He is "supersmart" though.

2) Anyone can sign 15 bums and call them OL.

3) No, nobody comes to mind. That ship has sailed. Only the bums are available at this point.Remember the 6 Ps, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

FlyinO wrote:

yupchagee wrote:
1) Rabach isn't "beetle dung". While not a pro bowler, he is decent.
2) We have 15 OL's on roster. How many do you want?
3) Do you have any OL's in mind?

1) Rabach is indeed 100% pure beetle dung. He always gets pushed backwards and is exceptionally weak. He never wins the battle on the LOS. Pretty sure I saw an analysis last year that said Rabach was one of the worst centers in the league with regards to blocking. I could be mistaken He is "supersmart" though.

2) Anyone can sign 15 bums and call them OL.

3) No, nobody comes to mind. That ship has sailed. Only the bums are available at this point.Remember the 6 Ps, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

You said

We need more bodies for competition

We don't need more bodies. 15 is plenty. We drafted 3 OL's & signed Hicks & Lichtensteiger. How many should we have brought in?

FlyinO wrote:

yupchagee wrote:
1Remember the 6 Ps, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Prior Planning: Who are you to say we didn't "plan" to address the O Line? We brought in Hicks, and Lichensteiger, and drafted T. Williams, S. Capers, and E. Cook.

Prevents Piss Poor Performance: Um, 2 of the 5 lineman are new additions, and a 3rd (Mike Williams) will be stronger and able to focus on one spot. Oh yeah, and they haven't PERFORMED yet.

The 6P's sound good, but are meaningless and a bit premature. Kinda like the slogan "drill baby drill."

The Hogster wrote:

FlyinO wrote:

yupchagee wrote:
1Remember the 6 Ps, Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

Prior Planning: Who are you to say we didn't "plan" to address the O Line? We brought in Hicks, and Lichensteiger, and drafted T. Williams, S. Capers, and E. Cook.

Prevents Piss Poor Performance: Um, 2 of the 5 lineman are new additions, and a 3rd (Mike Williams) will be stronger and able to focus on one spot. Oh yeah, and they haven't PERFORMED yet.

The 6P's sound good, but are meaningless and a bit premature. Kinda like the slogan "drill baby drill."

Lichensteger and Hicks are career backups and Capers and Cook were 7th round picks. None of them are even close to being adequate responses to our OL situation. Williams seems our only meaningful addition, and his acquisition is somewhere between risky and optimistic.
We passed up Pathos, Adams, Gaither, Campbell, and others who could have helped make our OL competitive, acquired big name has-been RB's and numberous additions for a defense that was already one of the best in the NFL. Priorities, priorities, priorities.

yupchagee wrote:
You said

We need more bodies for competition

We don't need more bodies. 15 is plenty. We drafted 3 OL's & signed Hicks & Lichtensteiger. How many should we have brought in?

We need more capable bodies. A couple of career back ups and never was's with a couple of 7th rounders sprinkled in is garbage. That's like having a Math competition with nothing but Cowboy's fans. Ain't pretty.

FlyinO wrote:

yupchagee wrote:
You said

We need more bodies for competition

We don't need more bodies. 15 is plenty. We drafted 3 OL's & signed Hicks & Lichtensteiger. How many should we have brought in?

We need more capable bodies. A couple of career back ups and never was's with a couple of 7th rounders sprinkled in is garbage. That's like having a Math competition with nothing but Cowboy's fans. Ain't pretty.

OK, but you only said bodies. It's way to soon to call Lichtensteiger a "career backup". He was a backup his rookei year & injured last year. Shany knows him much better than we do. Let's be at least a LITTLE patient?

FlyinO wrote:

yupchagee wrote:
You said

We need more bodies for competition

We don't need more bodies. 15 is plenty. We drafted 3 OL's & signed Hicks & Lichtensteiger. How many should we have brought in?

We need more capable bodies. A couple of career back ups and never was's with a couple of 7th rounders sprinkled in is garbage. That's like having a Math competition with nothing but Cowboy's fans. Ain't pretty.

Two things are wrong with this post. First, what "capable" Offensive Linemen are just waiting around on the street for someone to sign?? IT's not as if we have the ammunition to execute trades for marquee players while still building through the draft. So, while its easy to say that "we need more capable linemen" it's not as if they are a dime a dozen.

Second, check the background of Shanahan's offense. His two Superbowl teams sported offensive lines compiled of undrafted free agents and castoffs from other teams. The committment to, and execution of the scheme is more important than having recognizable names.

We will have two completely different starting tackles this year. Selvish Capers was highly rated and its too early to say that he can't get it done just because he was a 7th rounder. And, its definitely way to early to say that Capers and Cook will be "garbage."

yupchagee wrote:

FlyinO wrote:Agreed. Rabach is pure beetle dung. We need more bodies for competition. I hope this Capers kid pans out. That would be sweet.

For the life of me I still can't get over the 2008 draft. All those picks in the second and Fred Davis looks like the only one that can play. Pathetic. Should of picked 3 OL...

1) Rabach isn't "beetle dung". While not a pro bowler, he is decent.
2) We have 15 OL's on roster. How many do you want?
3) Do you have any OL's in mind?

Rabach isn't beetle dung but I think he's terrible at the physicality of the center position. He snaps the ball all over the place in shotgun and he's usually the first one that gets shoved through the "line" right into the QB. IMO having a center who can't anchor is the worst thing to have because if a defender is in the middle of the pocket a QB can't step up or even sideways to send out a deep ball. Personally, I blame Rabach for 50% of the problems JC had last year. I'm thankful he's here instead of Will Montgomery but this is a team with a reputation along the oline and it would serve this team to have a better center with giant, decent guards on each side. The middle of the pocket is so crucial to passing and running and I was really hoping more competition would be brought in

BurgundyandGoldfaith wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

FlyinO wrote:Agreed. Rabach is pure beetle dung. We need more bodies for competition. I hope this Capers kid pans out. That would be sweet.

For the life of me I still can't get over the 2008 draft. All those picks in the second and Fred Davis looks like the only one that can play. Pathetic. Should of picked 3 OL...

1) Rabach isn't "beetle dung". While not a pro bowler, he is decent.
2) We have 15 OL's on roster. How many do you want?
3) Do you have any OL's in mind?

Rabach isn't beetle dung but I think he's terrible at the physicality of the center position. He snaps the ball all over the place in shotgun and he's usually the first one that gets shoved through the "line" right into the QB. IMO having a center who can't anchor is the worst thing to have because if a defender is in the middle of the pocket a QB can't step up or even sideways to send out a deep ball. Personally, I blame Rabach for 50% of the problems JC had last year. I'm thankful he's here instead of Will Montgomery but this is a team with a reputation along the oline and it would serve this team to have a better center with giant, decent guards on each side. The middle of the pocket is so crucial to passing and running and I was really hoping more competition would be brought in

Really, Rabach was 50% of JC's problems? And get away from SuperBowl era smashmouth football with those giant guards; that's not the way Shanny operates. I agree that he's not stellar, but damn, a little harsh on the guy IMO.

Sure, Rabach is awful. That explains why Shanahan and Allen re-signed him almost immediately upon getting here.

He is an average center. The only player better than him that is out there though is Kevin Mawae, and he's almost 40.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:It still a concern for me.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:The new coach doesn't have the resume that I would be giddy about.

Please list specific credentials that would make you giddy. I'm curious to know.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:The Oline will surely be improved from past

So if it's improving... What are you asking for? I'm assuming an expectation that's bordering on being unrealistic.

Those thinking our OL "scheme" and the execution of is going to help us are in for a huge shock. Our zone blocking scheme is ordinary and takes talent to execute. We are sadly lacking in talent.

There is no such thing at any level of football as a "scheme" that can make up for lack of talent. It's as easy to flatten a guy zone blocking as it is one on one if you are simply better than he is.

Rabach will be pushed backward and Heyer will be run over, as always. Hicks will have a tough game every Sunday, Cory and Cook and Selvish will be on the bench most of the time (if they make the team), Dockery will still be average, and Williams will get beat like most other rookies immediately thrown into the ring. My candiate for surprise of the year is big Mike, who might be ok at guard. If so, we'll only be two OL short of an average OL next year.

Here's hoping Raback is working on centering the ball. He's to blame for a part of Campbell's shakiness last year. Breaks the rhythm, you know.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:It still a concern for me.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:The new coach doesn't have the resume that I would be giddy about.

Please list specific credentials that would make you giddy. I'm curious to know.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:The Oline will surely be improved from past

So if it's improving... What are you asking for? I'm assuming an expectation that's bordering on being unrealistic.

See Alex Gibbs resume for credentials that would make SBC, giddy.
When you look at the new Oline coach, coming from the 49ers? Ya can't help but wonder.... why couldn't we get Alex Gibbs who I believe is coaching for the Texans? ...the Oline coach for the Ravens maybe? I think he packed his bags and moved to another team. Even Minnie, or the Jets Oline coach... but the guy from the Niners?
The new guy, I just don't feel good about. He'll do better than Bugle did, who I thought should have "retired" back in 2007.

If the Skins should be known for anything.. it should be for Oline, period.
We had The Hogs.... there's no other team that can say that. Ravens are known for their D, Raiders were known for their DBs, Steelers for their Dline, etc.

I was really hoping we'd throw mad money at Coach Grimm and get him here to coach Oline.

It all starts with the Oline.... if that's unrealistic to you, too bad.

Thank you NewsHog for this article...

http://blog.redskins.com/2010/06/03/chr ... -coaching/

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:See Alex Gibbs resume for credentials that would make SBC, giddy.

No, I don't care to. You stated it, so its on you to back up your stance.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:When you look at the new Oline coach, coming from the 49ers? Ya can't help but wonder.... why couldn't we get Alex Gibbs who I believe is coaching for the Texans? ...the Oline coach for the Ravens maybe? I think he packed his bags and moved to another team. Even Minnie, or the Jets Oline coach... but the guy from the Niners?

I have a feeling that nothing would have satisfied you, or the rest of this fanbase. Nothing short of a time machine to ditch you all back in the 80's.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:The new guy, I just don't feel good about. He'll do better than Bugle did, who I thought should have "retired" back in 2007.

SMH... That's just a completely uneducated comment. And I don't mean that personally, I mean it as far as you having completely NOTHING to base that on. Nothing. Not one thing.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:If the Skins should be known for anything.. it should be for Oline, period.

It's 2010, stop living in the past.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:We had The Hogs....

See above.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:there's no other team that can say that.

I doubt that they really care. Seriously.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:I was really hoping we'd throw mad money at Coach Grimm and get him here to coach Oline.

Yeah, cus that's all it takes. You want coach Grimm who is apprentice to the master Bugel whom you just described as inadequate.... That makes no sense.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:It all starts with the Oline.... if that's unrealistic to you, too bad.

That is not unrealistic. Your expectations, they are unrealistic.

No, I don't care to. You stated it, so its on you to back up your stance.

You asked me to list specific credentials, and when I stated where you can see em, you said "I don't care to." ...you're worst than a woman. lol!


I have a feeling that nothing would have satisfied you, or the rest of this fanbase. Nothing short of a time machine to ditch you all back in the 80's.

So you're going on your feelings here? ...you are a woman. lol!

SMH... That's just a completely uneducated comment. And I don't mean that personally, I mean it as far as you having completely NOTHING to base that on. Nothing. Not one thing.

There was an article/blog on this very same concern (see link above). As far as my opinion on when Bugel should have "retired"? ....it's neither educated or uneducated, it's an opinion. I can see how you can get confused here. lol!

It's 2010, stop living in the past.

You sound like an ex-gf! lol! ...we had the Hogs... it's also the very same website that got it's name from, so.... open yo mouth, insert foot. lol!
Ironically, A LOT of ppl, not just SBC, would like to see this team have a dominating Oline that can give homage to one of the greatest Olines in the history of the game. It's not living in the past, it's called... wait for it....
Honoring the TRADITION. ....again, I can see where this can confuse you. lol!


I doubt that they really care. Seriously.
I can give a Rat's arse if they care. lol! ... I'm a Skins fan, I care. F everyone else. lol! ....

Yeah, cus that's all it takes. You want coach Grimm who is apprentice to the master Bugel whom you just described as inadequate.... That makes no sense.

It doesn't to you, and that's ...ok. ...I would try to explain that Coach Grimm is a younger version of Bugel who has helped coach the last two olines that have gone to the super bowl in the past 5 years, but I think it will also be met with more questions... I'm sure of it. lol!

That is not unrealistic. Your expectations, they are unrealistic.

lol! You "assumed" that my expectation were bordering on being unrealistic. When I stated that my expectations that the Oline shoudl be better than last years, you turn around and said "they are unrealistic."
With that, again I say to you.... too bad. lol!

Those are my expectations. *shrugs* ..don't like em? ....toooo bad.

SkinsBrewCrew wrote:No, I don't care to. You stated it, so its on you to back up your stance.

You asked me to list specific credentials, and when I stated where you can see em, you said "I don't care to." ...you're worst than a woman. lol!


I have a feeling that nothing would have satisfied you, or the rest of this fanbase. Nothing short of a time machine to ditch you all back in the 80's.

So you're going on your feelings here? ...you are a woman. lol!

SMH... That's just a completely uneducated comment. And I don't mean that personally, I mean it as far as you having completely NOTHING to base that on. Nothing. Not one thing.

There was an article/blog on this very same concern (see link above). As far as my opinion on when Bugel should have "retired"? ....it's neither educated or uneducated, it's an opinion. I can see how you can get confused here. lol!

It's 2010, stop living in the past.

You sound like an ex-gf! lol! ...we had the Hogs... it's also the very same website that got it's name from, so.... open yo mouth, insert foot. lol!
Ironically, A LOT of ppl, not just SBC, would like to see this team have a dominating Oline that can give homage to one of the greatest Olines in the history of the game. It's not living in the past, it's called... wait for it....
Honoring the TRADITION. ....again, I can see where this can confuse you. lol!


I doubt that they really care. Seriously.
I can give a Rat's arse if they care. lol! ... I'm a Skins fan, I care. F everyone else. lol! ....

Yeah, cus that's all it takes. You want coach Grimm who is apprentice to the master Bugel whom you just described as inadequate.... That makes no sense.

It doesn't to you, and that's ...ok. ...I would try to explain that Coach Grimm is a younger version of Bugel who has helped coach the last two olines that have gone to the super bowl in the past 5 years, but I think it will also be met with more questions... I'm sure of it. lol!

That is not unrealistic. Your expectations, they are unrealistic.

lol! You "assumed" that my expectation were bordering on being unrealistic. When I stated that my expectations that the Oline shoudl be better than last years, you turn around and said "they are unrealistic."
With that, again I say to you.... too bad. lol!

Those are my expectations. *shrugs* ..don't like em? ....toooo bad.

SBC: I think that Chris is saying that you have nothing to base your opinion on to support your statement that Chris Foerster will do better or worse than Bugel, but still not good enough. You simply don't know that, and unless you've already been into the future, you can't declare Forester a success or failure.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but what gets annoying is when certain posters whine and moan about things that they 1) haven't seen yet and 2) have no basis to proclaim a failure.

No one here is claiming that the 2010 Skins lines will be reminiscent of the Hogs. It won't. But, it doesn't have to be in order to work.