The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Hey just wanted to present my argument why Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame.

It is called the hall of "Fame". Not the hall of integrity. Pete Rose was, is and will always be the greatest hitter of all time. No one is even close. Maybe Ichiro if he had played his whole career here.
Still it is ridiculous to not have the greatest hitter of all time in the Baseball hall of "fame".

Remember it has nothing to do with his character. It all comes down to his accomplishments on the field. Even if he bet on his own team. It does not matter. That is not a reason to keep him out of the hall.

Dude, this is one of the reasons why I have a MLB ban in effect. I have for 4 years now. Have not watched a game, spent any money on gear, talked about it except to voice my displeasure with the sport that I loved long ago, or relly anything else that following a league entails.

Here are my beefs, and my ban will stay in effect until they are met.

No Cap
No minimum salary
Too many Steroids and HGH in the league
Pete Rose is not in the Hall

Bud Selig has ruined that league.

"No" on Rose. Gambling is gambling: it suggests that a player might throw a game.

Rose bet on games in which his team was involved. As a manager, her had special knowledge, such as who was hurt a little, who was hurt bad, who was in a mental blur. That signals which team to bet on, whether Rose's Reds or the opposition.

Betting on games undermines the integrity of the game...and the Lords of MLB undermined honest competition quite a bit. Note that MLB loved loved loved Mark McGwire for challenging and beating Maris's record.

Before Rose gos to the Hall, Shoeless Joe Jackson gets in!

HEROHAMO wrote:It is called the hall of "Fame". Not the hall of integrity. Pete Rose was, is and will always be the greatest hitter of all time. No one is even close. Maybe Ichiro if he had played his whole career here.
Still it is ridiculous to not have the greatest hitter of all time in the Baseball hall of "fame".

Remember it has nothing to do with his character. It all comes down to his accomplishments on the field. Even if he bet on his own team. It does not matter. That is not a reason to keep him out of the hall.

He didn't get a DUI or arrested in a bar fight. He bet on games he was coaching. There is no possible way he should get in the HOF. He was one of my favorite players in the 70s when I was a kid and obsessed with baseball, both playing and watching. I've seen him play lots of times because I went out of my way to go to his games. But for baseball to honor a player who so disgraced the game should never happen.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:It is called the hall of "Fame". Not the hall of integrity. Pete Rose was, is and will always be the greatest hitter of all time. No one is even close. Maybe Ichiro if he had played his whole career here.
Still it is ridiculous to not have the greatest hitter of all time in the Baseball hall of "fame".

Remember it has nothing to do with his character. It all comes down to his accomplishments on the field. Even if he bet on his own team. It does not matter. That is not a reason to keep him out of the hall.

He didn't get a DUI or arrested in a bar fight. He bet on games he was coaching. There is no possible way he should get in the HOF. He was one of my favorite players in the 70s when I was a kid and obsessed with baseball, both playing and watching. I've seen him play lots of times because I went out of my way to go to his games. But for baseball to honor a player who so disgraced the game should never happen.

I agree wit Kazo.. most of the crap people do we all say "hey, it was off the field so screw it".. but in this case it was off the field but really on the field... I wasn't around for Pete's years so I can't say I witnessed it but I know he was a real great player but hey, he messed up big time and that's a screwup in ANY major sport. So if I had a vote, I'd say heck no.

Pete Rose is a jerk. He was a great ball player, but a lousy human. His gambling further compromized the integrity of the game he claimed to love.

I remember the All Star game in which he destroyed Ray Fosse for no real reason... The game had no real value... and he could have just as easily dived around Fosse to score. Granted, that's how Pete Rose did things... but that's when I stopped being a fan.

"I bent down, and asked him how he was. He said "ok"... so I spit on him, and left."

Video

Unless I am mistaken, which I don't think I am, Rose bet on Baseball, but never on his team to lose.

chiefhog44 wrote:Unless I am mistaken, which I don't think I am, Rose bet on Baseball, but never on his team to lose.

And, that matters, because.....?

chiefhog44 wrote:Unless I am mistaken, which I don't think I am, Rose bet on Baseball, but never on his team to lose.

I can see what you mean by that Chief but I think someone said it before... As a manager he had the inside track to a lot of stuff that was going on with other organizations and he could have used that information to make his bets. I don't know this for a fact but that's not cool man, not cool at all.

Countertrey wrote:

chiefhog44 wrote:Unless I am mistaken, which I don't think I am, Rose bet on Baseball, but never on his team to lose.

And, that matters, because.....?

I think what he's alluding to is that betting on your team to win is somehow not so bad because your incentive is still to win, it's not like you're throwing the game. However, it misses that as coach you're expected to win across the season, not just specific games. You may leave players in too long who are playing too much or have a minor injury. Your judgment and emotions could be impaired fixing on the one game as well because you have money on it. You could focus on decisions to cover the spread instead of winning the game. And if you start losing all those are heightened and you become even more of a poor decision maker in future games as you try to recoup your losses. There is no way as an owner or member of the team your coach betting on the games is anything but a horrible situation.

I know what he was alluding to... my response is intended to suggest "so what?" The rules did not and do not care whether you were or were not gambling on your own games. They were created to protect the integrity of the game, not only from real corruption but from the appearance of it.

In violating the rules of Major League Baseball in this way, he made himself vulnerable to extortion... within a culture that has some history of organized criminal activity. While he might not profit from a loss by his team, someone who "knows what he did' might... "So, Mr. Rose, if you want to keep your secret, just help me out here..."

The real history of baseball (see the Black Sox scandal) makes this league uniquely sensitive to the issue of integrity.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:It is called the hall of "Fame". Not the hall of integrity. Pete Rose was, is and will always be the greatest hitter of all time. No one is even close. Maybe Ichiro if he had played his whole career here.
Still it is ridiculous to not have the greatest hitter of all time in the Baseball hall of "fame".

Remember it has nothing to do with his character. It all comes down to his accomplishments on the field. Even if he bet on his own team. It does not matter. That is not a reason to keep him out of the hall.

He didn't get a DUI or arrested in a bar fight. He bet on games he was coaching. There is no possible way he should get in the HOF. He was one of my favorite players in the 70s when I was a kid and obsessed with baseball, both playing and watching. I've seen him play lots of times because I went out of my way to go to his games. But for baseball to honor a player who so disgraced the game should never happen.

I am no Pete Rose apologist. Nor do I condone his gambling on baseball or gambling at all.

My point is where does it say that you have to have a certain character to get into the hall of fame?

Like I said before no where is it said that you have to have integrity to be a hall of famer. He probably is a dirtbag, jerk or what have you.

That still has nothing at all to do with his baseball career. He is possibly the greatest hitter to ever play the game. I put him past Babe Ruth, Mantle, Mays whoever. Pete Rose was the greatest. To not have one of the greatest players ever in the hall is shame.

There should be a plaque or sign describing his career how contreversial his actions were. But, still there are plenty of low character guys in the hall of fame.

It is not a great character contest. The Hall of fame is for the greatest baseball players who played what is ultimatley just a game.

chiefhog44 wrote:Unless I am mistaken, which I don't think I am, Rose bet on Baseball, but never on his team to lose.

There is no way I going to believe that Pete Rose only bet on his team to win. A gamblers goal is to win money. The easiest way to do that is throw a game and bet the other way. That temptation alone over the course of a whole season would be hard for a gambler to resist.

Like I said before Pete Rose is a terrible person. That still does not take away from the accomplishments he had on the field. Which should be the only merits considered when going into the Hall.

HEROHAMO wrote:
Like I said before Pete Rose is a terrible person. That still does not take away from the accomplishments he had on the field. Which should be the only merits considered when going into the Hall.

I agree. As a a player his numbers were remarkable. To let all these steroid era players in ahead of him is inexcusable. I am starting to think every player with above average numbers was juicing.

There is plenty of evidence that Joe Jackson was actually not involved in the BlackSox scandal... yet, Joe Jackson isn't in the Hall either... the man had a lifetime Batting Average of .358!

If Jackson isn't eligible for the Hall... why in the world should Rose be?

I live in Greenville, SC....home of Shoeless Joe Jackson. There is a statue of him downtown. I am all for Jackson getting into the hall.

HEROHAMO wrote:My point is where does it say that you have to have a certain character to get into the hall of fame?

Where does it say that you don't?

chiefhog44 wrote:Dude, this is one of the reasons why I have a MLB ban in effect. I have for 4 years now. Have not watched a game, spent any money on gear, talked about it except to voice my displeasure with the sport that I loved long ago, or relly anything else that following a league entails.

Here are my beefs, and my ban will stay in effect until they are met.

No Cap
No minimum salary
Too many Steroids and HGH in the league
Pete Rose is not in the Hall

Bud Selig has ruined that league.

I have 3 reasons for not giving a darn about baseball...

Calvin Griffith.

Robert Short

Player Strikes

I loved the game... the League, the owners, AND the players stole that.
I'm not coming back... Baseball was ruined long before Bud Selig.

Pete Rose in the hall? Why? Shoeless Joe isn't in... why should he be? I mean, there is evidence that Joe Jackson was railroaded... Rose, on the other hand, is guilty as sin... and unrepennant...

Countertrey wrote:unrepennant...

Deadskins wrote:

Countertrey wrote:unrepennant...

Gosh... I wish I had done that on purpose...

Countertrey wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Countertrey wrote:unrepennant...

Gosh... I wish I had done that on purpose...

Freudian slip

Countertrey wrote:I loved the game... the League, the owners, AND the players stole that.
I'm not coming back... Baseball was ruined long before Bud Selig

And it's the only sport that I hate the "referees" aka umpires as well. Remember how they wanted to Welsh on their agreement not to strike, so they all quit the union and resigned? The owners accepted their resignations and then they sued to get their jobs back.

I'm with you, I loved baseball as a kid. I played little league, neighborhood ball, watched the Cubbies regularly on WGN, I grew up in SW Michigan. But after strike, lockout, lockout, strike, ... I decided if they don't want to play I don't want to watch them. The final nail for me was when they canceled the second half of the season and the world series just so the owners could cave in the Spring. They could have done that the year before and saved the season.

I still go to some games, but I don't follow at all. I still love sitting at a ball game though. Ironically they've had the longest period of labor rest of the major leagues now, but you don't just turn it off and on. Even the Tigers in the World Series didn't raise a flicker of interest.

Countertrey wrote:There is plenty of evidence that Joe Jackson was actually not involved in the BlackSox scandal... yet, Joe Jackson isn't in the Hall either... the man had a lifetime Batting Average of .358!

If Jackson isn't eligible for the Hall... why in the world should Rose be?

Doggone it, CT beat me to my next argument. Shoeless Joe Jackson was twice the hitter that Rose was, but he knew about gambling connections to White Sox players.

The league installed the rule -- non contact with gamblers -- to eliminate anything like the Jackson situation.

Rose knew the rules, and he still bet on baseball games, including some in which his team played. No good. He undermined the integrity and honesty of the game.

- No, the steroid sluggers should no go to the Hall. No McGwire, no Barry
Bonds, no Clemens.

- No Pete Rose, either.

welch wrote:- No, the steroid sluggers should no go to the Hall. No McGwire, no Barry
Bonds, no Clemens.

- No Pete Rose, either.

Agreed

welch wrote:

Countertrey wrote:There is plenty of evidence that Joe Jackson was actually not involved in the BlackSox scandal... yet, Joe Jackson isn't in the Hall either... the man had a lifetime Batting Average of .358!

If Jackson isn't eligible for the Hall... why in the world should Rose be?

Doggone it, CT beat me to my next argument.

It's from hanging around South Dakota and Michigan Aves in the '50's... some of us got smart... and some of us learned to read minds...

Shoeless Joe Jackson was twice the hitter that Rose was, but he knew about gambling connections to White Sox players.

The league installed the rule -- non contact with gamblers -- to eliminate anything like the Jackson situation.

Rose knew the rules, and he still bet on baseball games, including some in which his team played. No good. He undermined the integrity and honesty of the game.

- No, the steroid sluggers should no go to the Hall. No McGwire, no Barry
Bonds, no Clemens.

- No Pete Rose, either.

Simple... eloquent... true.