The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

On 106.7 tonight one of the reporters was saying told him that the Skins are going to be running a variation of Paterson's TCU 4-2-5. The secondary being 2 corners and 3 safeties in the base package. The speculation also was that the Skins might draft Berry. Thoughts?

if it works........I'm all for it...

I'd say the key to this would be how you play the front 4. If you play a standard DE-DT-DT-DE front then I'd say you might be susceptible to off tackle and sweep runs. (especially with pulling guards and TE's blocking strong side) But if you play the front like a 3-4, where you have a NT and two other big DL's, then add a guy like Orakpo as your 4th DL, you might be more effective against the run. then yo have Fletcher and Rocky looking to plug holes and make tackles. You move Landry into a roving SS role, where he plays in the box, covers the slot or TE and fills against the run. it could be pretty effective. It also matches our current personnel very well, except we don't have a 3rd Safety (hence the rumor about Berry)

interesting....

tribeofjudah wrote:if it works........I'm all for it...

I agree Tribe, I've seen TCU use it and I didn't think it would work in the NFL but hey, something new is always worth trying at least once.

Berry is pretty sick but when would we draft him, wouldn't it have to be kinda early? I'm guessing it would have to be because there's no way he'll be around for later rounds.. I don't think so anyways.

If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung - even if Suh is there we are not taking him

we are not a player or 2 away - we need a lot of help all around this franchise and especially on the offense side of the ball


we are hopefully rebuilding this franchise so that we can see a consistently competitive product on the field


this is not a fantasy football program anymore

SkinsJock wrote:If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung - even if Suh is there we are not taking him

we are not a player or 2 away - we need a lot of help all around this franchise and especially on the offense side of the ball


we are hopefully rebuilding this franchise so that we can see a consistently competitive product on the field


this is not a fantasy football program anymore

That was the argument that they were making on the radio last night...if you're close to competing, you take Berry. If you're rebuilding you take Bradofrd (if there) or Okung.

I believe that the Redskins are attempting to make a case for someone to trade up for the #4 pick by creating the impression that they will take Berry... and pushing another team into pulling the trigger.

Of course, while the logical portions of my brain scream OT! OT! OT!!!!...

my heart, a fan of a demolition type of defense, would love it.

I think they call that a Nickel package... only instead of an extra corner you add an extra safety... we ran it a couple times last year and the year before....

Berry is visiting the team today, by the way. I really don't see us drafting. Too many holes other places, and I think that he is somewhat overrated. He had a monster junior season but regressed his senior year in the Tampa 2 defense that Kiffin ran at Tennessee.

If we did run this type of defense, I see us going with a base package of 3 cb's and 2 safeties.

This is perfect for our personnel right now.

We have a safety that plays like a LB, and big boys up front who can stop the run.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Berry is visiting the team today, by the way. I really don't see us drafting. Too many holes other places, and I think that he is somewhat overrated. He had a monster junior season but regressed his senior year in the Tampa 2 defense that Kiffin ran at Tennessee.

If we did run this type of defense, I see us going with a base package of 3 cb's and 2 safeties.

If you had Berry, you'd be perfectly fine playing 3 safeties... he has mad skills...

Countertrey wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Berry is visiting the team today, by the way. I really don't see us drafting. Too many holes other places, and I think that he is somewhat overrated. He had a monster junior season but regressed his senior year in the Tampa 2 defense that Kiffin ran at Tennessee.

If we did run this type of defense, I see us going with a base package of 3 cb's and 2 safeties.

If you had Berry, you'd be perfectly fine playing 3 safeties... he has mad skills...

Agreed. I just don't see us drafting Berry. Given where we are as a franchise it doesn't make sense.

As I said, I think that this is about maneuvering for a trade.


sigh... but, I'd still love Berry in our defensive backfield...

Countertrey wrote:As I said, I think that this is about maneuvering for a trade.


sigh... but, I'd still love Berry in our defensive backfield...

Possibly. I just don't see a team trading up to 3 or 4 to draft a safety. The position isn't important enough, imho, to do that. If we could get a team to do that, that would be awesome. Just not sure how realistic that is.

There is bound to be someone who feels they are but one nasty FS away from significant improvement... whether they are willing to pull the trigger or not is another thing. I could see Singletary, for example, wanting another beast on defense. He has extra picks, so could afford to jump up.

Even if it doesn't happen, though, the interest has the ability to change the selections of others... It is often much more than just "due dilligence".

Wind back the clocks to the Patriots beating the Rams in the Super Bowl. They were obviously switching schemes so fast it is hard to tell what they were using, but you see 4-2-5 in there I'm certain.

djactionman wrote:Wind back the clocks to the Patriots beating the Rams in the Super Bowl. They were obviously switching schemes so fast it is hard to tell what they were using, but you see 4-2-5 in there I'm certain.

The Pats have used this against good passing teams like the Colts the past couple of years as well as against the Rams in the Super Bowl.

If we played 3-3-5 with Orakpo playing like a zone blitzing DE who rushes the passer 80% of the time, it would be the same thing you saw the Pats doing (like I described in my previous post). Haynesworth and Kemo would be part of a 3 man front similar to a traditional 3-4.

This is not a traditional nickel package. Nickel subs a 3rd CB for either a DL or LB. The style 4-2-5 we're talking about is where you replace a LB with a safety. If you have a strong hard hitting safety, then you don't lose too much in the run defense but gain someone who can match up man-to-man on a good TE or slot WR and take that player out of the game.

Switching to this defense will require the front 6 to be better at pass rushing a run stopping. That's why i suuggested it be done like a 3-4, where the front 3 are big run stiffing DL's like Haynesworth, Kemo and Daniels. Then move Orakpo around as the premier pass rusher. Fletcher and McIntosh will be devoted mostly to run stopping and short zone coverage. Landry comes up into the box as the rover or 3rd safety.

If you picked up an Eric Berry or Earl Thomas, especially Thomas in the draft, then the 4-2-5 would be pretty f'n hot.

And Orakpo is the man.

for us to take Berry or Thomas would mean that we'd found a way to trade out of the 4 spot
if these guys have a pick at the 4 spot they are not taking Berry or Thomas - not a chance

SkinsJock wrote:for us to take Berry or Thomas would mean that we'd found a way to trade out of the 4 spot
if these guys have a pick at the 4 spot they are not taking Berry or Thomas - not a chance

I don't think it is concrete. In fact, there are 32 draft boards and I doubt you or i know what any of them say. There are murmurings on various web sites about Berry going #2 or #4. And several sites have Berry listed as the 2nd best player overall, talent-wise. It would not be that big of a shocker. You could make a case for Berry even without the 4-2-5 discussion because our safety situation is not good. My vote is still for Okung, but if he's gone and no one will trade up, then Berry becomes much more appealing. Then we look for Charles Brown in the 2nd.

Wish we had a way to fit Iupati into the draft plans, but it just isn't in the cards. Oh well, I'll have to watch him go to Pro Bowls for another team...

This isn't anything revolutionary. Blache and Williams called it their Cobra package, and basically everybody has a Big Nickel of some sort with a third safety.

And it's a fine idea if you're playing against the Colts or the Chargers or the Martz Rams where you're looking at a base 3WR offense and 60% passing. But if you happen to be in the NFC East, with 4 games against the Cowboys and Giants (who haven't exactly lacked for success in the ground game), I'm hard pressed to see how going smaller stands to be an improvement.

If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung

Well maybe I won't win THN's worst post of the year this year

Gibbs4Life wrote:

If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung

Well maybe I won't win THN's worst post of the year this year

You could actually use this D and convert pretty easily to a 4-4 on rushing downs by moving up the safties, or start in a 4-4 and move back to a 4-2 by moving back the backers. Could make some sense with players like Horton on the team, but you would need another player like him to complete this formation...Eric Berry? I think this is part of the smoke screen that we're putting up making teams think we're going to select Eric Berry. Goes along with the idea that we're going to trade for Gaither at LT. I think we want a tackle other than Okung and we're trying to get a trade done to move down a couple picks. Who knows.

Gibbs4Life wrote:

If this draft had Sean Taylor in it, I would still advocate taking Okung

Well maybe I won't win THN's worst post of the year this year

I never thought you'd be redeemed so quickly G4L!