The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

The only thing I can think of is if you could get sort of a scaled down version of the Herchal Walker type trade - which you won't so you might as well keep him. If the defense needs to focus on ey and Davis that would open up lots of options with the WR's I would think.

Keep ey AND Davis AND Yoder and have more options for whatever QB is back there..seems like a no brainer. Can we just bury this thread now before it gets out of hand?

cleg wrote:The only thing I can think of is if you could get sort of a scaled down version of the Herchal Walker type trade - which you won't so you might as well keep him. If the defense needs to focus on ey and Davis that would open up lots of options with the WR's I would think.

This is what I'm thinking. a two TE base is usually a heavier package. With the receiving skills of ey AND Davis, you have the option of running when the defense is in a lighter formation and passing if they're in a heavier base 4-3 or 4-3 defense. I'm positive that there are very few teams that have enough coverage LBs to cover both TEs. Safeties will have to step up with leaves favorable coverage on the WRs.

This also gives the option to motion a TE in to the FB position in a run situation. It's a win win IMO.

The only reason why I would argue that cooley might be on the block is because i think that he is the only person that would have a high trade value. if you believe that you don't lose to much with davis and yoder then getting rid of cooley might land you a big time tackle or something else in a need position. I do not think that we should do it but if the right offer is out there I think that cooley would be the player that makes the most sense since we seem to be capable at te without him

fresh1120 wrote:The only reason why I would argue that cooley might be on the block is because i think that he is the only person that would have a high trade value. if you believe that you don't lose to much with davis and yoder then getting rid of cooley might land you a big time tackle or something else in a need position. I do not think that we should do it but if the right offer is out there I think that cooley would be the player that makes the most sense since we seem to be capable at te without him

Yea, I don't really see a need to run two TE sets the whole game, especially ones involving two guys that can't block. I would definitely move cooley for a reasonably-high second rounder.

brad7686 wrote:

fresh1120 wrote:The only reason why I would argue that cooley might be on the block is because i think that he is the only person that would have a high trade value. if you believe that you don't lose to much with davis and yoder then getting rid of cooley might land you a big time tackle or something else in a need position. I do not think that we should do it but if the right offer is out there I think that cooley would be the player that makes the most sense since we seem to be capable at te without him

Yea, I don't really see a need to run two TE sets the whole game, especially ones involving two guys that can't block. I would definitely move cooley for a reasonably-high second rounder.

OOOOH! So YOU are whom ey was talking about when he says

"It's awkward for me because since I've been here, I've had nothing but great things said about me from our fans. I've worked real hard to become what I've become. So it's tough when
someone says, 'We need linemen, who can we trade? Let's trade Chris.' It's like, come on...

ey also says, however...

"[Washington] is a place I want to spend my whole career. I don't have any intention of ever leaving."

Redskins Insider article

Countertrey wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

fresh1120 wrote:The only reason why I would argue that cooley might be on the block is because i think that he is the only person that would have a high trade value. if you believe that you don't lose to much with davis and yoder then getting rid of cooley might land you a big time tackle or something else in a need position. I do not think that we should do it but if the right offer is out there I think that cooley would be the player that makes the most sense since we seem to be capable at te without him

Yea, I don't really see a need to run two TE sets the whole game, especially ones involving two guys that can't block. I would definitely move cooley for a reasonably-high second rounder.

OOOOH! So YOU are whom ey was talking about when he says

"It's awkward for me because since I've been here, I've had nothing but great things said about me from our fans. I've worked real hard to become what I've become. So it's tough when
someone says, 'We need linemen, who can we trade? Let's trade Chris.' It's like, come on...

ey also says, however...

"[Washington] is a place I want to spend my whole career. I don't have any intention of ever leaving."

Redskins Insider article

Yea, I had no idea he was in the room when i said that, how embarrassing.

So what happens if we do move ey and then Fred flops when he's in the spotlight? I mean, we do use 2nd round picks as career backups, don't we? I still say keep what we've got and move on. It's not like he's out of place. He's still the best receiver we have on the team currently. Period.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

I'm not saying that we should trade ey, but it would make sense to try and get some value for either ey or Davis, since I don't see how we are going to make effective use of both of them. Neither of them is very good at blocking, so how many packages are we realistically going to run with both of them in the game at the same time? I'd guess not very many, particularly given the troubles of our o-line.

This all really goes back to the intelligence of drafting Davis when we already had ey. Now we are in a situation where the coaches are going to have to try to find a way to use both of them. If it was me I wouldn't trade ey, but I would look at possibly moving Davis if I could get a second or third rounder for him.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

I'm not saying that we should draft ey, but it would make sense to try and get some value for either ey or Davis, since I don't see how we are going to make effective use of both of them. Neither of them is very good at blocking, so how many packages are we realistically going to run with both of them in the game at the same time? I'd guess not very many, particularly given the troubles of our o-line.

This all really goes back to the intelligence of drafting Davis when we already had ey. Now we are in a situation where the coaches are going to have to try to find a way to use both of them. If it was me I wouldn't trade ey, but I would look at possibly moving Davis if I could get a second or third rounder for him.

Yea, there was no point in drafting both of them. I'm really not sure which of them is easier to move. ey is established but coming off an injury, while Davis is raw but obviously very talented and young.

brad7686 wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

I'm not saying that we should draft ey, but it would make sense to try and get some value for either ey or Davis, since I don't see how we are going to make effective use of both of them. Neither of them is very good at blocking, so how many packages are we realistically going to run with both of them in the game at the same time? I'd guess not very many, particularly given the troubles of our o-line.

This all really goes back to the intelligence of drafting Davis when we already had ey. Now we are in a situation where the coaches are going to have to try to find a way to use both of them. If it was me I wouldn't trade ey, but I would look at possibly moving Davis if I could get a second or third rounder for him.

Yea, there was no point in drafting both of them. I'm really not sure which of them is easier to move. ey is established but coming off an injury, while Davis is raw but obviously very talented and young.

As one of the earlier posters said, he was drafted so they could run a two TE offense that dictates mismatches. With two TE's who can catch, Two WR's, and 1 RB, you have massive flexibility based on defensive personnel. If they go nickel to help cover the TE's in the pass game, you can run against a smaller group with 7 blockers. If they stay in base defense, then you've got four receivers in the pattern with a lot of one on one coverage. Very few teams have one guy on defense who can cover ey, much less two guys to cover both ey and Davis.

Gonzalez went to Atlanta for a #2 pick last year. Gonzalez is at the end of his career whereas ey is in his prime, so you might get a #1 for him, but I hope they don't trade him.

Why on earth would the Redskins want to trade ey? That would rank right up there with the Adam Archuleta deal or that DE from Miami that wasn't here long enough for me to learn his name.

Come on, let's put an end to the trade ey posts.

No way ey goes anywhere. He appears to be a good character person, and the man can play football.

This is a massive amount of rectal talking.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

Sorry, I ahven't been on the sight for a while.

The Comment on ey was based on the fact that Bruce Allen has said that no team needs two pass catching TE that can't block. To me that says he is going to look at trading Davis or ey.

ey has more value than Davis (much better player and way more proven). So I think it would come down to what is offered for each and I think you would get more for ey.

However, if I'm the GM I don't even cnsider trading ey for anything less than a high mid-first round pick (say 14 or higher). Anyone that offers a 2nd I would just laugh and hang up the phone.

Lets say we draft Okung first and one of the top three or four OT is still on the board and a team calls and offers us there spot for ey, could you pass that up? And then draft an OG in the 2nd and we have completely revemped our OL in one draft with very young cheep (relatively) tallent.

Look I don't won't to se either go. There are just too many creative things you can do with both ey and Davis on the field!

However, BA seems to think it is a waste. I don't agree! Off course I'm a logistician and not an NFL GM.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

Sorry, I ahven't been on the sight for a while.

The Comment on ey was based on the fact that Bruce Allen has said that no team needs two pass catching TE that can't block. To me that says he is going to look at trading Davis or ey.

ey has more value than Davis (much better player and way more proven). So I think it would come down to what is offered for each and I think you would get more for ey.

However, if I'm the GM I don't even cnsider trading ey for anything less than a high mid-first round pick (say 14 or higher). Anyone that offers a 2nd I would just laugh and hang up the phone.

Lets say we draft Okung first and one of the top three or four OT is still on the board and a team calls and offers us there spot for ey, could you pass that up? And then draft an OG in the 2nd and we have completely revemped our OL in one draft with very young cheep (relatively) tallent.

Look I don't won't to se either go. There are just too many creative things you can do with both ey and Davis on the field!

However, BA seems to think it is a waste. I don't agree! Off course I'm a logistician and not an NFL GM.

The likelyhood of someone asking to give their mid 1st rnd pick for ey is quite unlikely. We could say the Lions are going to call and want to trade Heyer for Stafford. I mean, it's theoretically possible, but it is worth mentioning?

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

Sorry, I ahven't been on the sight for a while.

The Comment on ey was based on the fact that Bruce Allen has said that no team needs two pass catching TE that can't block. To me that says he is going to look at trading Davis or ey.

ey has more value than Davis (much better player and way more proven). So I think it would come down to what is offered for each and I think you would get more for ey.

However, if I'm the GM I don't even cnsider trading ey for anything less than a high mid-first round pick (say 14 or higher). Anyone that offers a 2nd I would just laugh and hang up the phone.

Lets say we draft Okung first and one of the top three or four OT is still on the board and a team calls and offers us there spot for ey, could you pass that up? And then draft an OG in the 2nd and we have completely revemped our OL in one draft with very young cheep (relatively) tallent.

Look I don't won't to se either go. There are just too many creative things you can do with both ey and Davis on the field!

However, BA seems to think it is a waste. I don't agree! Off course I'm a logistician and not an NFL GM.

The likelyhood of someone asking to give their mid 1st rnd pick for ey is quite unlikely. We could say the Lions are going to call and want to trade Heyer for Stafford. I mean, it's theoretically possible, but it is worth mentioning?

Wait one second. A kid first rounder for ey is reasonable. I don't think anyone would pay it, but I wouldn't trade him for less. TE's get drafted in the first round and no draft pick can guarantee you the production ey would give you! Look how productive he has been with the QBs the Skins have had! I think in Indy he would be more productive than Dallas Clark.

The Heyer for Stafford thing is just absurd and I can't believe you would even in jest, use that as a comparison.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

TeeterSalad wrote:I like Brennan, hopefully he gets a fair chance to prove himself under Shanahan and he takes advantage of it. I think he could be good, but I especially like the fact that he is not afraid to throw the ball downfield unlike what we've seen for the past few years.

... and so is ey (I hope I'm wrong about both - but I could live with CB being shown the door)

What have you seen that would EVER EVER give you the impression that ey's gone? He's our most dependable receiver. I don't count 1/2 a season for Davis as establishing himself over ey. ey's a great locker room guy from what I've read; not a cancer like the other big names that have been moved out recently. He didn't have an injury that would reduce his abilities after full rehab. I don't see why ANYBODY trades their largest strength in the passing game when trying to rebuild. It's not like he's Sproles and we're trying to install a power running game.

Please, please, ANYONE give some intelligent, critical insight on why ey's gone. Any intelligence out there? I haven't heard it yet. And before anyone says it, we're not getting a 1st round draft pick for ey. As much as I like an awesome TE, I don't think he's garner that much.

Sorry, I ahven't been on the sight for a while.

The Comment on ey was based on the fact that Bruce Allen has said that no team needs two pass catching TE that can't block. To me that says he is going to look at trading Davis or ey.

ey has more value than Davis (much better player and way more proven). So I think it would come down to what is offered for each and I think you would get more for ey.

However, if I'm the GM I don't even cnsider trading ey for anything less than a high mid-first round pick (say 14 or higher). Anyone that offers a 2nd I would just laugh and hang up the phone.

Lets say we draft Okung first and one of the top three or four OT is still on the board and a team calls and offers us there spot for ey, could you pass that up? And then draft an OG in the 2nd and we have completely revemped our OL in one draft with very young cheep (relatively) tallent.

Look I don't won't to se either go. There are just too many creative things you can do with both ey and Davis on the field!

However, BA seems to think it is a waste. I don't agree! Off course I'm a logistician and not an NFL GM.

Well, BA is the GM, but he is not really a personnel guy. That is really up to Shanahan. And BA really doesn't have any idea why a coach might want to have two pass catching TEs. Lastly, can you provide a link to where BA said that ey and Davis can't block? I'd be really surprised if he said that on the record.

Deadskins wrote:Well, BA is the GM, but he is not really a personnel guy.

If this is true, aren't we in trouble?

Although ey is a good player and well-liked, he's definitely not in the category of not tradeable. Besides some rare instances, trades occur with players that people find valuable. If we think we're going to make significant moves by trading the Rock Cartwrights and Colt Brennans, we're deluding ourselves.

As I've argued before, if you're building a team around a TE, you're in trouble. QB, O-line, RB, WR, then TE is probably the next important position. If we can upgrade in one of those positions more than we drop off, which isn't as much as most people think, we definitely should take it.

Trading cooley is like robbing peter to pay for paul, sooner or later your gonna need a replacement for a Pro bowl caliber TE with great hair. Fred is good but not ey good. Like Betts is good but not Portis good (circa 2007)

I don't see ey going anywhere, he's hands down our most dependable player. Besides no white guy has sported a better afro since Riggins.

SKINFAN wrote:Trading cooley is like robbing peter to pay for paul, sooner or later your gonna need a replacement for a Pro bowl caliber TE with great hair. Fred is good but not ey good. Like Betts is good but not Portis good (circa 2007)

I wasn't aware that a TE was such an integral position to winning. For the past 4 months, I thought it was O-line or QB? I thought we just needed better WRs? Or just a new RB? I like the philosophy, we need to get better at every position that sucks without losing talent at all positions that don't and we'll be a better team.

It may be the right decision to keep ey, but it's definitely not a no brainer.

DLC, ey has been better at recieving than our recievers year in year out. YOu tell me. Your willing to let a jackpot probowl pick like ey to gamble on a Lineman who may or may not be able to start?