The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Offense - this is Shanahan's background. He worked for SF, under Seifert, and brought the West Coast system to Denver.
1. QB - Campbell is an enigma. He's a solid player physically, has solid character on and off the field, but has not developed markedly. Sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. If you let him go, who do you replace him with? I don't think it would be smart to burn the #4 pick on a QB, especially with the QB's in this years draft. I see Shanny keeping Campbell to see what he can do with an imporoved O-line. Then maybe drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round or waiting until next years draft.
2. O-line - Alex Gibbs or not, get ready for a whole new blocking scheme. Zone Blocking Scheme (ZBS) is largely believed to be the #1 reason Elway, TD, Gary and Anderson all had such great success. Redskins Offensive Line will have to undergo major changes. ZBS requires, speed, agility and intelligence. Big lumbering 340lbs lineman will likely not be a good fit. Expect to see at least a couple draft picks used on smaller, athletic lineman. (Charles Brown, USC, where Shanny's former OC Jeremy Bates is the Asst. HC) (also guys like Selvish Capers, West Virginia and Alonzo Durham, Nevada in later rounds) I don't see Mike Williams staying.
3. Defense - this is a big question mark because Blache has led the Skins to a solid defense each of the last two years, but he is gone. Shanahan was never known for good defenses. Also, the scheme will likely change to either a 4-3 with more speed at LB and DE (Zimmer) or a 3-4. The 3-4 idea is more likely I think. Both Zimmer and Haslett (top two rumored to become the DC) have coached both the 4-3 and 3-4. But I think Shanahan is leaning toward a 3-4 and will likely hire someone who agrees. Shanny spent time this past year at New England and Pittsburgh practices observing, among other things, the 3-4. So don't be surprised if Orakpo stays at OLB, Haynesworth moves to NT with Montgomery as backup and a rotation of Griffin, Daniels, Golston and JArmon at DE.
4. Discipline - Only time will tell how much of a shakeup we'll see. But surely some of the players who continue to complain to the media, skip practices or play below 100% will be shown the door. Shanahan has a track record of having a short fuse with players who mouth off Remember when he shipped Portis here? speculation at the time was that Portis got big-headed and mouthy and Shanahan showed him the door. He dispensed with Griese too. Expect a more disciplined team approach.

Pretty accurate but I'm not sure that the defense needs to change schemes. But as I stated in another thread, I would love a disciplinarian as the D Cord.

What about Derrick Dockery as a zone blocking lineman? Or Randy Thomas if he comes back?

Samuels seems to fit but I'm worried we won't have the right personnel.

*Also, Kyle Shanahan was a teammate of Mike Williams at Texas.

Samuels seems to fit but I'm worried we won't have the right personnel.

Who cares? This isn't a one-year rebuild. This is a process that is likely going to take 2-3 years.

I think the O-line will ALL have to work hard to win their jobs. Big contracts may limit movement some, but I don't see Thomas, Dockery and Heyer getting starting jobs by default. They'll have to show they can excel in the ZBS. A lot of the free agent moves will depend on the collective bargaining agreement.

fleetus wrote:I think the O-line will ALL have to work hard to win their jobs. Big contracts may limit movement some, but I don't see Thomas, Dockery and Heyer getting starting jobs by default. They'll have to show they can excel in the ZBS. A lot of the free agent moves will depend on the collective bargaining agreement.

I think that Dockery is the only one that DOES have a little bit of stability in his job.

I actually think Campbell may benefit most from Shanahan. I don't know he will become a Pro Bowler, but he definitely could have his best season. He is mobile enough to work well in the system and behind the ZBS. Davis, Thomas and Kelly are improving. If the line can improve blocking, we may see a good passing game.

Not sure how much Portis, Moss and ARE will factor though.

I don't see Samuels being here. He's got a huge contract and an even bigger injury that could force him to a wheel chair for the rest of his life. So I don't see him playing this year. He may try to give it a go but I could see him retiring before the season starts. I'm sure he's going to be excited for our new coach for what he's done with his lineman in the past but all in all, we're talking about the rest of his life and someone really needs to let him know that in great detail so he fully understands it.

fleetus wrote:I actually think Campbell may benefit most from Shanahan. I don't know he will become a Pro Bowler, but he definitely could have his best season. He is mobile enough to work well in the system and behind the ZBS. Davis, Thomas and Kelly are improving. If the line can improve blocking, we may see a good passing game.

Not sure how much Portis, Moss and ARE will factor though.

The only problem with that idea is that Shanahan's run-heavy version of the West Coast offense favors a vertical passing game. We all know how JC does with throwing the ball down the field.

I think the reason why he's been so off target is b/c of his mechanics and not being able to get his feet set. If he doesn't have to constantly worry about defenders flying at him left and right, he can get more set up for the pass.

It's not going to be perfect but coming out of college, he was known for his downfield accuracy and being that the line has been so bad, I think there is a direct relation to the two.

It's going to be interesting to see how this thing pans out.

I think the reason why he's been so off target is b/c of his mechanics and not being able to get his feet set. If he doesn't have to constantly worry about defenders flying at him left and right, he can get more set up for the pass.

It's not going to be perfect but coming out of college, he was known for his downfield accuracy and being that the line has been so bad, I think there is a direct relation to the two.

I have to strongly disagree with this. What you state is your post is just another excuse for JC.

This from his Scouts, Inc. pre-draft scouting report from 2005...

Weaknesses: Long accuracy continues to stand out as a problem. The deeper the throw the less consistent he is. Field vision is improved but still not good. Doesn't see entire field, misses too many open WR's.

These are EXACTLY the same weaknesses that we see from JC today. They aren't a result of the poor offensive line as they have been his weaknesses since college. These are areas that he continues to struggle in and has not improved significantly in during his time in the NFL. It's easy to blame everything on the offensive line, but at what point is JC held accountable for continuing to struggle in certain important areas. Every year as a pro we have hears about JC failing to find open receivers and struggle with his down field accuracy. None of this is new and it's ridiculous to blame his struggles in these areas on the offensive line.

The scouting report states this as well....

Campbell has always had excellent size, good athletic ability and above average arm strength, but his poor decision making skills, lack of poise in the pocket, indecisiveness and erratic arm haunted him early in his collegiate career. Throughout his first three seasons as a starter, Campbell consistently held onto the ball too long, threw too many passes up for grabs when he ran out of time, missed open receivers downfield and overthrew too many of the receivers that he did find open.

Campbell improved in his last year at Auburn, in an offense that ran more than it threw the ball, but the problems that he had during his first three years at Auburn are the same ones that he has had while in the NFL.

Okay, and here's what that same Scouts Inc. says before the 2009 season:

Comment: Campbell had a very solid season as the Redskins' starting signal caller in 2008. He has progressed over his four years in the league. He adjusted to a new system under first-year head coach Jim Zorn and showed the ability to be patient in the pocket to find second and third options in the passing game. He can power the ball into tight windows or get it deep on long throws as well as showing good touch on shorter routes. He has improved his vision and ability to read defenses over the past two seasons which has made him a much more efficient passer in Zorn's West Coast offense. He runs well for his size and position and can ball the ball down to move the chains. He has improved his improvising in 2008 but needs to continue to improve in this area. Campbell has all the tools to be an excellent quarterback in the NFL and should continue to improve in his second season in Washington's new offensive philosophy. .

So, professional scouts say he's improved since college, and predict he'll improve in 2009 (he did). They also praise his accuracy and long pass ability. They tout his patience and his physical tools.

They kind of pass over the fact that he's had so many systems to learn and he's managed a degree of success in all of them. He's arguably the toughest QB in the league both physically and mentally. Also, look at all the players who jumped up to his defense as a leader.

There's not really any denying his talent. He just had the best season of a Redskins QB in nearly 20 years.

He can power the ball into tight windows or get it deep on long throws as well as showing good touch on shorter routes

I stopped reading right here. You don't have to be a professional scout to see that JC has trouble with his accuracy on down field throws. That is obvious to anyone that watches the Redskins.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Okay, and here's what that same Scouts Inc. says before the 2009 season:

Comment: Campbell had a very solid season as the Redskins' starting signal caller in 2008. He has progressed over his four years in the league. He adjusted to a new system under first-year head coach Jim Zorn and showed the ability to be patient in the pocket to find second and third options in the passing game. He can power the ball into tight windows or get it deep on long throws as well as showing good touch on shorter routes. He has improved his vision and ability to read defenses over the past two seasons which has made him a much more efficient passer in Zorn's West Coast offense. He runs well for his size and position and can ball the ball down to move the chains. He has improved his improvising in 2008 but needs to continue to improve in this area. Campbell has all the tools to be an excellent quarterback in the NFL and should continue to improve in his second season in Washington's new offensive philosophy. .

So, professional scouts say he's improved since college, and predict he'll improve in 2009 (he did). They also praise his accuracy and long pass ability. They tout his patience and his physical tools.

They kind of pass over the fact that he's had so many systems to learn and he's managed a degree of success in all of them. He's arguably the toughest QB in the league both physically and mentally. Also, look at all the players who jumped up to his defense as a leader.

There's not really any denying his talent. He just had the best season of a Redskins QB in nearly 20 years.

please stop. what about brad johnson's 99 season. brad hit more deep passes that season then campbell has in his life. what about mark rypien , brunell's 05 season,, hell todd collins last 6 games of 07 is way better than campbell has ever done. bottom line whenever campbell is under center the playoffs are not a option

Like I said before, I don't see JC going to the Pro Bowl, but IF the offensive line is improved, JC could have his best season. Shanahan's offense, if it is largely based on his Denver offense, will have JC rolling out some more and will place more emphasis on the running game. Both of those things, coupled with 2 TE sets using ey and Davis could really help JC put up good numbers. It'll be hard to stack the line with ey and Davis on the seams.

I don't think JC is the long term answer, but he could be improved pretty quickly.

Also, look at all the players who jumped up to his defense as a leader.

Which players? You mean ey, who today said that there is no offensive leadership on the Redskins?

He just had the best season of a Redskins QB in nearly 20 years.

That's not exactly saying much given who we've had at qb since Rypen.

Even still, though, you're statement is incorrect because Brad Johnson's 1999 season was superior to JC's 2009 season.

Even if we get adequate protection for JC17, he'd still be an average or adequate QB (being generous)... We need to start looking for a above average QB, I think we had him and let him go (Chase Daniel). We overpay for guys all the time and we seem to skimp at QB. We need a young gun that we can home school and groom to become the starter. Enough of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

He can power the ball into tight windows or get it deep on long throws as well as showing good touch on shorter routes

I stopped reading right here. You don't have to be a professional scout to see that JC has trouble with his accuracy on down field throws. That is obvious to anyone that watches the Redskins.

Well, if you stopped reading right there, you can hardly cite the extracts from Scouts Inc that you used?! You can't pick and choose, or can you?

Of course, that doesn't invalidate your argument in itself, as you (unlike me) may have actually SEEN enough of Campbell at college to be able to assert that he exhibits exactly the same faults that he had then.

Skinsfan55 wrote:What about Derrick Dockery as a zone blocking lineman? Or Randy Thomas if he comes back?

Samuels seems to fit but I'm worried we won't have the right personnel.

*Also, Kyle Shanahan was a teammate of Mike Williams at Texas.

Someone please explain to me this Zone Blocking stuff...??? I'm not that bright... What's the dif...???

tribeofjudah wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:What about Derrick Dockery as a zone blocking lineman? Or Randy Thomas if he comes back?

Samuels seems to fit but I'm worried we won't have the right personnel.

*Also, Kyle Shanahan was a teammate of Mike Williams at Texas.

Someone please explain to me this Zone Blocking stuff...??? I'm not that bright... What's the dif...???

Just like the differences in man and zone defense. Instead of blockers going man-up on a defender, they block a zone within the line. It requires the 5+ blockers to move as a unit in many instances. They might run block right and the guard might pick up a DT in a block, then shed him off to his teammate trailing behind him and pick up the next guy. This is why stretch run plays work so well in this system, because the O-line works as a 5+ man unit and they stretch the defense out in one direction. The RB looks for an opening or cuts back. TD made half his yards cutting back on stretch runs.

THe linemen block lower than usual?... (drunroll)

Try this analogy for the zone blocking scheme. Imagine a pitch fork with five prongs compared to a saw blade with five teeth. Pitch fork is man blocking. Saw blade is zone blocking. The pitch force pushes forward and each prong has a job to do by itself. A saw blade pulls and each tooth cuts a little, followed by the next tooth. As a unit, they cut together in one line.

Obviously this doesn't apply to every play or situation, but a simple way to picture the differences.

SKINFAN wrote:THe linemen block lower than usual?... (drunroll)

Ok, just nothing below the belt (like boxing)...hehehe

ah, so we need to add more linemen up front? Nah just jesting, I didn't know what ZBS was either. So do the TE and FB do Blocking duties too? Or the line just moves more lateral than the usual pushing forward.