The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

...JaMarcus Russell. This guy is the BIGGEST BUST since Ryan Leaf, imo.

Word is that Russell and another teammate missed the last team meeting of the this season due to "personal" reasons.

They tracked him down to a hotel room in Vegas...!!! What a team guy, what a team player....!!! WHAT A BUST.....

Get out of the NFL you LOSER....!!! Does he even have real talent to be in the NFL....???

http://otrsportsonline.com/2010/01/05/j ... -to-vegas/

tribeofjudah wrote:...JaMarcus Russell. This guy is the BIGGEST BUST since Ryan Leaf, imo.

Word is that Russell and another teammate missed the last team meeting of the this season due to "personal" reasons.

They tracked him down to a hotel room in Vegas...!!! What a team guy, what a team player....!!! WHAT A BUST.....

Get out of the NFL you LOSER....!!! Does he even have real talent to be in the NFL....???

http://otrsportsonline.com/2010/01/05/j ... -to-vegas/

...but he can throw the football 70 yds on his knees.

Who cares. What a waste of talent and he'll be broke in months or in jail for that matter.

He's no natural talent, but maybe you guys should give some consideration to the train wreck of an organization he's in. Definitely a horrible pick, but some of these NFL guys listen to Mel Kiper way too much.

I have said this before. It is very important for a draftee to come into the right system. Especially when they are fresh out of college.

What if Jamarcus Russell was drafted by Indianapolis? What if Tom Brady was drafted by the Raiders? What if Peyton Manning was drafted by the Raiders?

Sure Jamarcus could show some character and try to be successful? But, the bottom line is most any player drafted or signed by the raiders is set up for failure.

You come into the Raiders as a player and you have to ask yourself. Am I willing to do my best even though I know this team will most likely lose on Sunday? Should I listen to Tom Cable when I really know Al Davis runs the show? Should I play hard when half the team is just collecting a paycheck?

So many stories of the famous phone on the sideline. Warren Sapp has said before how when the phone rings and Al Davis is calling for a certain play? What kind of Organization is that? Talk about micro management.

So yes Jamarcus has done little to help himself.

What happened to: Commitment to Excellence....????

HEROHAMO wrote:I have said this before. It is very important for a draftee to come into the right system. Especially when they are fresh out of college

Sure it helps. The biggest thing that Brady in particular got was a coach who realized their sixth round pick was truly special and he was willing to dump a big name high round one pick and keep him. Talk about taking a risk. But every team in the NFL would pummel any team not in the NFL. Sure the Lions for example are not good by NFL standards. But they do have loads of talent and coaching. That a player in a good system will progress more is certainly true. But that any NFL QB like JC or Russell actually sucks and can't play the game because they didn't get access to quality coaching is just nonsense.

HEROHAMO wrote:I have said this before. It is very important for a draftee to come into the right system. Especially when they are fresh out of college.

What if Jamarcus Russell was drafted by Indianapolis? What if Tom Brady was drafted by the Raiders? What if Peyton Manning was drafted by the Raiders?

To answer questions 2 and 3, either would have been successful wherever they ended up, though almost certainly to a far lesser extent than they have been had it been Oaktown for Brady or Manning.

The answer to question 1, OTOH, is: Russell could be tucked in nightly by Peyton, personally mentored by Brady, and receive bi-weekly IV drips of liquefied DNA from a revolving gene pool of Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino and Slingin' Sammy himself -- and he would still suck. He has nowhere near the talent needed to make a team at this level, much less start for one.

To be a bigger bust than Leaf, he'll have to bounce around teams for a few years being just as bad but nevertheless given one or two more chances.

Irn-Bru wrote:To be a bigger bust than Leaf, he'll have to bounce around teams for a few years being just as bad but nevertheless given one or two more chances.

true dat - I wonder though if this guy will get another chance - he really has made a mess of his opportunity at Oakland and it all seems to be on him

I agree though, we really don't know the full story but this guy has really stunk it up

Let's get this straight. There will NEVER be another Ryan Leaf.

What if Indy had picked that bozo ahead of Manning? Wow.

BeeGee wrote:Let's get this straight. There will NEVER be another Ryan Leaf.

What if Indy had picked that bozo ahead of Manning? Wow.

Well, a few years later they may have been in a position to draft two of the top QBs in the NFL, like the Chargers were.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I have said this before. It is very important for a draftee to come into the right system. Especially when they are fresh out of college

But that any NFL QB like JC or Russell actually sucks and can't play the game because they didn't get access to quality coaching is just nonsense.

JC and Jamarcus are products of there environment. All they have known since arriving in the NFL is failure. There are a number of factors that can be looked at.
Is it a coincidence that both the Raiders and Redskins both have meddlesome owners?
Both the Raiders and Redskins have had several head coaches and systems?
Instability?
I dont care who you throw into the Raiders situation or the Redskins Qb situation. Brady or Manning would have faltered. It takes a team not just one player. Clearly both organizations have had issues.

Let me give an example not related to football. Lets say you were born and raised in Brazil? Would you still be the same person that you are today? You would have had different experiences, different friends, different language, every thing would be different. You would be a totally different person.

HEROHAMO wrote:You would have had different experiences, different friends, different language, every thing would be different. You would be a totally different person.

I agree and the fallacy of your analogy goes to my point. The US and Brazil are radically different economically, culturally and so on. The NFL is 32 teams, period. They all have access to lots of money, the best college players, the best coaches. Anyone who drops out of any of the 32 teams has an endless list of quality replacements waiting to take over. Does every NFL quarterback have a chance to win NFL games with their current team? Certainly not. But every NFL quarterback has plenty of access to show and develop their skills and move to another team when their contract is up. JM and JC included.

Irn-Bru wrote:To be a bigger bust than Leaf, he'll have to bounce around teams for a few years being just as bad but nevertheless given one or two more chances.

I actually think that Russell is a bigger bust. For all of Leaf's issues, at least he tried hard, which is more than you can say for Russell. ESPN had an article about him a few months ago that talked about how he barely even watches film. Russell is a complete joke.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:To be a bigger bust than Leaf, he'll have to bounce around teams for a few years being just as bad but nevertheless given one or two more chances.

I actually think that Russell is a bigger bust. For all of Leaf's issues, at least he tried hard, which is more than you can say for Russell. ESPN had an article about him a few months ago that talked about how he barely even watches film. Russell is a complete joke.

As bad as the outlook is for Russell, I can't rule him a bigger bust. I think he still has a chance of being "saved", and maturing into a QB at least worthy of being on a roster. But it's obvious that the guy got paid way too much, way too soon, and has less drive than Charles Barkley off the tee. In my humble, Russell has a lot to do to become Ryan Leaf. He's definitely off to a great start to achieve Leaf-infamy though.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:I have said this before. It is very important for a draftee to come into the right system. Especially when they are fresh out of college

Sure it helps. The biggest thing that Brady in particular got was a coach who realized their sixth round pick was truly special and he was willing to dump a big name high round one pick and keep him. Talk about taking a risk. But every team in the NFL would pummel any team not in the NFL. Sure the Lions for example are not good by NFL standards. But they do have loads of talent and coaching. That a player in a good system will progress more is certainly true. But that any NFL QB like JC or Russell actually sucks and can't play the game because they didn't get access to quality coaching is just nonsense.

I agree each player has the ability to gain access to quality coaching.
I also agree that it is each persons responsibility to hone his craft or skill.
But, the power of your surroundings and influences cannot be underestimated. These are young men who come into the league. They still have a lot to learn, not just about football but life in general.

The Lions are just recovering from the Matt Millen fiasco and now have some form of stability and clearity in terms of a plan on how to be successful.
QB is probably the most difficult position to become successful.

I will say there are maybe very few young men who have developed the character to take on a dysfunctional system and turn it around. 1 out of ten draft prospects may be able to come in be successful in such a dysfunctional system such as the Raiders or Redskins.

But, like they say the proof is in the pudding. Who have the Redskins, Raiders and Lions produced in recent years? Joey Harrington, Jason Campbell, Tuiasosopo all of these players had great college careers. What happened when they hit the NFL? More often then not you will have a product of your enviroment.

I never said they did not have access to quality coaching. I am saying they are surrounded by garbage and they sleep, eat, and learn garbage all day. So the finishing product will most likely end up being garbage. In terms of football skills that is. Nothing personal against the players.

“Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.”

HEROHAMO wrote:But, like they say the proof is in the pudding. Who have the Redskins, Raiders and Lions produced in recent years? Joey Harrington, Jason Campbell, Tuiasosopo all of these players had great college careers. What happened when they hit the NFL? More often then not you will have a product of your enviroment.

I never said they did not have access to quality coaching. I am saying they are surrounded by garbage and they sleep, eat, and learn garbage all day. So the finishing product will most likely end up being garbage. In terms of football skills that is. Nothing personal against the players.

Jason Campbell had three very mediocre college seasons and one good one. That doesn't equal great.

Secondly, Jason had the luxury of a year and a half of study, and a solid Joe Gibbs coaching staff, and a very humble and mentoring type vet in Mark Brunell.

You make it sound like he was thrust into the depths of hell, without a canteen.

But, like they say the proof is in the pudding. Who have the Redskins, Raiders and Lions produced in recent years? Joey Harrington, Jason Campbell, Tuiasosopo all of these players had great college careers. What happened when they hit the NFL? More often then not you will have a product of your enviroment.

JC did not have a great college career. He was mediocre, at best for 3 seasons, and while he improved his senior year, that offense was clearly built around Cadillac and Ronnie Brown. During JC's senior year Auburn actually ran more than they threw and JC spent most of his time handing the ball of or dumping it to Cadillac/Brown.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

But, like they say the proof is in the pudding. Who have the Redskins, Raiders and Lions produced in recent years? Joey Harrington, Jason Campbell, Tuiasosopo all of these players had great college careers. What happened when they hit the NFL? More often then not you will have a product of your enviroment.

JC did not have a great college career. He was mediocre, at best for 3 seasons, and while he improved his senior year, that offense was clearly built around Cadillac and Ronnie Brown. During JC's senior year Auburn actually ran more than they threw and JC spent most of his time handing the ball of or dumping it to Cadillac/Brown.

....all the while Carlos was dropping possible INTS...???? who knew???

RayNAustin wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:But, like they say the proof is in the pudding. Who have the Redskins, Raiders and Lions produced in recent years? Joey Harrington, Jason Campbell, Tuiasosopo all of these players had great college careers. What happened when they hit the NFL? More often then not you will have a product of your enviroment.

I never said they did not have access to quality coaching. I am saying they are surrounded by garbage and they sleep, eat, and learn garbage all day. So the finishing product will most likely end up being garbage. In terms of football skills that is. Nothing personal against the players.

Jason Campbell had three very mediocre college seasons and one good one. That doesn't equal great.

Secondly, Jason had the luxury of a year and a half of study, and a solid Joe Gibbs coaching staff, and a very humble and mentoring type vet in Mark Brunell.

You make it sound like he was thrust into the depths of hell, without a canteen.

My post was to point out that both JC and Russell were part of two very bad teams. Redskins and Raiders had a terrible front office, lack of direction, lack of clearity, lack of talent(Oline), bad coaching and a list of other things.

As far as football eviroments are considered the Raiders and Redskins would be considered hell without a canteen.

To play under a lame duck coach as a QB. With scarecrows as your offensive line?