The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Okay, we've got a little clearer picture of what we're going to need for next season. This website does a great job of breaking down FA's based on CBA vs. no CBA: http://www.theredzone.org/showposition.aspx?position=QB. Here's what I do with Allen as GM (after filling out my staff and hiring a coach (Shanahan for instance.)

QB- If Sam Bradford is indeed determined to be a potential franchise QB we need to get him. That will be the quintessential question for the new administration. If he's not, we still have a 2nd, 4th, 5th, and 7th pick at our disposal. Either way, I'd try to keep JC around. Jason Campbell is as tough as week old jerky and he's having the best season for a Redskins QB in 10 years behind a porous line. If we draft Bradford, Campbell's gone, if not, he might be needed for a Colt McCoy, Tony Pike, Tim Tebow etc. type in later rounds. Brennan is a great #3 to have.

RB- Betts and Cartwright are almost certainly gone. Portis may stay around, but with no CBA it may be the perfect time to dump him since he's damaged goods. I'd like to draft a guy in the 2nd round if possible. The free agency options are lousy but a guy like Chester Taylor or JJ Arrington might be nice as part of a rotation.

FB- Mike Sellers was a Pro-Bowler last season, but he looked terrible at times this year... so bad in fact that Clinton Portis called him out. Dan Krieder, Jeremi Johnson and others are available as free agents.

TE- This position is locked down. ey should be healthy in time for next season, but he's got a great couple backups in Fred Davis and Todd Yoder. No reason to change a thing here.

WR- Santana Moss had a disappointing season and he's losing a step, why keep him around at his big salary? ARE is awful and his skill have been in freefall for years. Devin Thomas looks decent but we have no idea about the rest of the crew. This will require a LOT of work. Maybe Roy Williams will be dropped from Dallas? TO will be available but probably not the best choice for a rebuilding team (although, he DOES hate the Cowboys.) Antonio Bryant and Nate Burleson look like decent options. Maybe Marko Mitchell will actually see the field next season.

OL- This is actually where I'd spend the top pick. In a position where we need 8 of 10 positions on the line (including backups) we can't afford to make mistakes. Dockery is a decent LG, Rabach is a good team leader at C. Thomas and Samuels will most likely retire, Jones has to be gone (ar re-signed in a backup role) and the rest of the line is absolute garbage. (Heyer, Rinehart, Montgomery, Batiste and the Williams boys need to GO.)

We'll pick close to 5th overall, and there are three elite OT prospects. We'll be able to get one of them. Russ Okung is the best of the class but he may be gone at 5. Trent Williams is next, more of a RT than LT though. Great run blocker... tough and strong. Could step in right away as a RT. Last is Anthony Davis, who most pundits agree has more upside than the other two. Bruce Campbell might even factor into this debate. A tackle will solve a LOT of our offensive issues. Say we were to draft Trent Williams and either Samuels or Jones comes back to play LT (more likely Jones.) Then we fill RG with Stephen Neal or another one of the free agent options? Our line would be MUCH better and the offense may have a chance to develop.

Heyer, Rinehart, Montgomery, Batiste and the Williams boys need to GO.)

Agreed

QB- What? Colt a decent back up? I'd draft a QB, let JC go, keep Colt, and pick up a vet in FA. JC is a decent back up if we keep him.

RB- I agree with everything except I like what Ganther offers. He's a good hard runner. Plus Shanahan loved him some Alridge. Which is why he's back on the team.

FB- Time to get younger.

TE- I think we are set also. I hope Shanny knows how to utilize a 2TE set better then Zorn.

WR- Moss and ARE= gone. Keep the young ones and see what a qualified WR coach can do with them. Hixon is a moron.

OL- We need 4 starters. Ones that are good at zone blocking. The rest can be backups.

I'd put an all call to all UFA OL. Let them know they have a great chance to start in 2010. Show up at camp.

Man there are NO good UFA's at OT. If they don't take a tackle they would be stupid. Draft Fragile Sam to get his arse kicked behind this sad excuse of a line.

Well, if Shanahan comes onboard I am almost positive they will take a QB. I wonder who would be available in the second round. Colt McCoy? Tim Tebow? Jevan Snead if he declares for the draft?

Skinsfan55 wrote:Well, if Shanahan comes onboard I am almost positive they will take a QB. I wonder who would be available in the second round. Colt McCoy? Tim Tebow? Jevan Snead if he declares for the draft?

I disagree, Shanahan understands the importance of an O-line. Always had a good one. He really didn't draft that many qb's compared to O-linemen.

He's letting it be pretty well known that he wants to build and groom a young QB. He never "drafted that many QB's" because he had Elway, and then Cutler. With a top 10 pick he'll almost certainly draft a QB and dump JC the first chance he gets. I have no doubt.

That's not to say he will ignore the line, but he's coming back for one reason, to team up with a young QB and take the team to the top.

Roy Williams is a bust....leave him alone.

Skinsfan55 wrote:He's letting it be pretty well known that he wants to build and groom a young QB. He never "drafted that many QB's" because he had Elway, and then Cutler. With a top 10 pick he'll almost certainly draft a QB and dump JC the first chance he gets. I have no doubt.

That's not to say he will ignore the line, but he's coming back for one reason, to team up with a young QB and take the team to the top.

Yea, he also had plummer for a long time in there, but he was always behind a good line. It seems like he had good players at every offensive positon when he was coaching. There is a lot of work to be done personnel-wise to accomplish that here.

NO Bradford…stick with JC or Brennan or a FA, but no top 5 QB. I haven’t heard a consensus saying that any of these guys are that good to be a franchise QB, and now that the Bowl games are almost complete, everything from this point on is going to be opinion or speculation.

Betts is surely NOT going to be ready at the start of 2010, maybe not at all 2010. Return men such as Cartright aren’t that hard to find. If we keep Ganther or Mason, we don’t really need Cartright, but I wouldn’t be opposed to keeping him. He’s a flexible guy that can fill in almost anywhere.

I’m not concerned with a FB really. With Davis & ey, I want to see more two TE sets and one of those guys can motion in to the backfield. Even better, Yoder’s a decent receiver (as he’s shown the few attempts he got after ey’s IR) and subbed at FB when Sellers was out. We have options.

Moss in the slot still makes me drool…talk about a mismatch. I liked what I saw from Thomas and what little chance Kelly got at the end of the year. I see that Kelly’s a possession guy; on that bubble screen, he’s got zero explosion from a standstill. Leave that for Moss and Thomas. With an uncapped year, I don’t mind keeping El as long as he’s not doin PR/KR. One good return all year (And that one shoulda been called back with a block in the back). I still like what little I see of Mitchell.

OLINE OLINE OLINE….This is where our draft needs to go. I agree with most of your assessment except Rinehart. I’d like to see more of him to see what he can do once he’s comfortable in a position. Keep in mind, when Rinehart was drafted, he was said to be able to handle all 3 interior positions. It can’t be worse than these past two years, can it? I’ve NEVER NEVER NEVER liked Heyer. NEVER.

QB - I would draft someone in the later rounds and keep JC.

RB - I would keep Rock and Ganther. I would try to get someone like Sproiles to complement as a FA.

WR - I think that I would run a lot of 3 WR sets with Thomas as #1, Kelly as the 2 and Moss as the 3 in the slot. But if there is trade value for Moss, I'd trade him. There's not enough value to keep him at his price as a slot guy. If we traded Moss, keep ARE. He's a decent enough WR to run the slot.

TE - we're good. ey starts and Davis comes in for certain plays only. He's got to do better blocking still.

FB - I'm totally fine with Sellers. Dude's a beast, a good receiver and has shown the ability to play through injury. I would have Yoder as the backup b/c he's pretty versatile in that if one of the TE's goes down, he can slip right in there.

Line - Largest need there. The only Starters who are worth saving at this point is Raybach and Dockery. I think that Samuels is going to retire and Thomas may still have something left but it would be required to restructure his contract and reduce the guaranteed money and have it be incentive based b/c he hasn't been able to stay healthy the last few years (even though it's not been his fault).

You've got to get one of the 3 guys who will be available. If you have a chance to trade down a few spots and pick up more picks, I would do that in a heart beat. We can't be "IN LOVE" with just one guy. If you have the right guys in there coaching, you'll be able to groom any guy to start. There are guys in the end of the 1st round - see Michael Oher in Baltimore.

If you have the right guys in there coaching, you'll be able to groom any guy to start

I can agree with everything you said but this. If Buges can't get Heyer ready, then I don't think too many people can...not everyone in college can step up to the NFL level.

QB - I would draft someone in the later rounds and keep JC.

RB - I would keep Rock and Ganther. I would try to get someone like Sproiles to complement as a FA.

WR - I think that I would run a lot of 3 WR sets with Thomas as #1, Kelly as the 2 and Moss as the 3 in the slot. But if there is trade value for Moss, I'd trade him. There's not enough value to keep him at his price as a slot guy. If we traded Moss, keep ARE. He's a decent enough WR to run the slot.

We'd have the same lack of production as this year with this bunch.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

QB - I would draft someone in the later rounds and keep JC.

RB - I would keep Rock and Ganther. I would try to get someone like Sproiles to complement as a FA.

WR - I think that I would run a lot of 3 WR sets with Thomas as #1, Kelly as the 2 and Moss as the 3 in the slot. But if there is trade value for Moss, I'd trade him. There's not enough value to keep him at his price as a slot guy. If we traded Moss, keep ARE. He's a decent enough WR to run the slot.

We'd have the same lack of production as this year with this bunch.

The offensive Oline has nothing to do with offensive production?

VetSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

QB - I would draft someone in the later rounds and keep JC.

RB - I would keep Rock and Ganther. I would try to get someone like Sproiles to complement as a FA.

WR - I think that I would run a lot of 3 WR sets with Thomas as #1, Kelly as the 2 and Moss as the 3 in the slot. But if there is trade value for Moss, I'd trade him. There's not enough value to keep him at his price as a slot guy. If we traded Moss, keep ARE. He's a decent enough WR to run the slot.

We'd have the same lack of production as this year with this bunch.

The offensive Oline has nothing to do with offensive production?

Of course it does. But the oline isn't going make Rock or Ganther faster and more elusive. It also isn't going to make JC more accurate and more able to read defenses. It also wont make Thomas and Kelly more consistent. Obviously we need a better oline but it isn't going to mask the deficiencies of the players that we have now, particularly Rock, Ganther, and JC (the receivers are still young and I have hope for them).

I dont understand why people keep pushing Moss to the slot position. He is not Welker, he is a totally different reciever!!!! I would put #1 Moss, #2 Kelly or Mitchel #3 Thomas.

Pablo wrote:I dont understand why people keep pushing Moss to the slot position. He is not Welker, he is a totally different reciever!!!! I would put #1 Moss, #2 Kelly or Mitchel #3 Thomas.

Moss in the slot would be an incredible mismatch. Just like Welker is usually a mismatch.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

QB - I would draft someone in the later rounds and keep JC.

RB - I would keep Rock and Ganther. I would try to get someone like Sproiles to complement as a FA.

WR - I think that I would run a lot of 3 WR sets with Thomas as #1, Kelly as the 2 and Moss as the 3 in the slot. But if there is trade value for Moss, I'd trade him. There's not enough value to keep him at his price as a slot guy. If we traded Moss, keep ARE. He's a decent enough WR to run the slot.

We'd have the same lack of production as this year with this bunch.

The offensive Oline has nothing to do with offensive production?

Of course it does. But the oline isn't going make Rock or Ganther faster and more elusive. It also isn't going to make JC more accurate and more able to read defenses. It also wont make Thomas and Kelly more consistent. Obviously we need a better oline but it isn't going to mask the deficiencies of the players that we have now, particularly Rock, Ganther, and JC (the receivers are still young and I have hope for them).

I agree, except I see a lot to like there in Ganther. The dude makes positive yards even when it's not there ... give him a chance with good blocking, and I think he can be a decent Portis replacement at a supreme bargain.

For those advocating getting rid of Moss ...NOOOO! He's still got the speed to get deep, and it's not his fault that the offense can't throw deep.

RayNAustin wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

QB - I would draft someone in the later rounds and keep JC.

RB - I would keep Rock and Ganther. I would try to get someone like Sproiles to complement as a FA.

WR - I think that I would run a lot of 3 WR sets with Thomas as #1, Kelly as the 2 and Moss as the 3 in the slot. But if there is trade value for Moss, I'd trade him. There's not enough value to keep him at his price as a slot guy. If we traded Moss, keep ARE. He's a decent enough WR to run the slot.

We'd have the same lack of production as this year with this bunch.

The offensive Oline has nothing to do with offensive production?

Of course it does. But the oline isn't going make Rock or Ganther faster and more elusive. It also isn't going to make JC more accurate and more able to read defenses. It also wont make Thomas and Kelly more consistent. Obviously we need a better oline but it isn't going to mask the deficiencies of the players that we have now, particularly Rock, Ganther, and JC (the receivers are still young and I have hope for them).

I agree, except I see a lot to like there in Ganther. The dude makes positive yards even when it's not there ... give him a chance with good blocking, and I think he can be a decent Portis replacement at a supreme bargain.

For those advocating getting rid of Moss ...NOOOO! He's still got the speed to get deep, and it's not his fault that the offense can't throw deep.

Ganther is solid. I think, however, that we need to find a back with big-play ability. I'm not sure that Ganther has that. I'm not saying that we should get rid of him, but we need to find a player for our backfield, potentially for a 1-2 punch with Ganther, that can break long runs. IMO we need to add some speed to the backfield.

Agree 100% about Moss btw.

I'm tired of not having a big play in the running game. I don't want a 3rd down big play guy, I want a starter big play guy. I can't really recall (my memory's not that great) any breakaway RBs we've had.

In reviewing some stats, CP is actually the best breakaway guy we've had in my time. And his longest run of his career is this past year after the skins have put many miles on him.

Portis can be a really great asset as a RB - he's got all of the attributes, well, almost ... lately, his attitude seems to have led to his not praticing and playing as well as he can - if he can motivate himself to want to do better for himself and the others around him, he can be our RB

hopefully Portis embraces the new system and his offensive teammates and shows everyone why he's a special RB - if he's not going to do that he will not be here

I think we have a pretty good group of players here offensively - I understand that it will take some time to get a really effective offensive line but in doing that we have some of the other components already here and many of these players will be able to help this franchise

I'm very encouraged that we can get things back together here - we just have to hope that Snyder stays out of it - if he can just support what is happening and not interfere, we have a decent chance of getting a consistently competitive product on the field again

Portis is on the decline I think. He's been run in to the ground and can't help the miles put on him.

I do think that he's been coddled too much and now he's a bit spoiled.

He can be a short term asset, but I think we need to plan for the future very soon.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Pablo wrote:I dont understand why people keep pushing Moss to the slot position. He is not Welker, he is a totally different reciever!!!! I would put #1 Moss, #2 Kelly or Mitchel #3 Thomas.

Moss in the slot would be an incredible mismatch. Just like Welker is usually a mismatch.

Yup Vet, that's what I was going to say.. kinda like Welker being covered by a LB or Safety would mean HUGE yardage for Moss with a chance for a breakaway TD. I used to like Moss @ that #1 spot too Pablo but with additions like Kelly and Thomas who are taller, they may have better opportunities for those toss up plays ya know? Plus defenses usually don't double team a slot reciever so that's even another chance he'd get with man-on-man coverage. Oh and don't forget Davis too cause yea he's a TE but he plays like a WR.. similar to Antonio Gates I'm thinkin.

langleyparkjoe wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Pablo wrote:I dont understand why people keep pushing Moss to the slot position. He is not Welker, he is a totally different reciever!!!! I would put #1 Moss, #2 Kelly or Mitchel #3 Thomas.

Moss in the slot would be an incredible mismatch. Just like Welker is usually a mismatch.

Yup Vet, that's what I was going to say.. kinda like Welker being covered by a LB or Safety would mean HUGE yardage for Moss with a chance for a breakaway TD. I used to like Moss @ that #1 spot too Pablo but with additions like Kelly and Thomas who are taller, they may have better opportunities for those toss up plays ya know? Plus defenses usually don't double team a slot reciever so that's even another chance he'd get with man-on-man coverage. Oh and don't forget Davis too cause yea he's a TE but he plays like a WR.. similar to Antonio Gates I'm thinkin.

Oh, AND Marko!!! That guy is a beast and has great hands, I hope we utilize him this upcoming season.