The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

First, I acknowledge totally I was the one who said and largely advocated this was JC's last season in Burgundy and Gold. I have been pretty hard on him through the season as well. But the guy is turning into something special. I offer my Mea Culpa to the big guy.

I thought ey going down was the end of JC. But realistically as the line has jelled so many things started to happen. Lewis is calling a better game then Zorn, the rookies are stepping up. Fred Davis showed the critical part of the JC to WC connection was him, not ey. I'd like to see more loft on the deep throws, but they are so much better as he has had time.

We make some OL upgrades in the off season and focus on O over D for a change and with a supporting cast around him, we could be talking pro-bowls. HOF is a ways off, but the guy has the tools. The arm, the brains. He's pulling down the ball and making some heady first downs for us keeping the D honest. It all feeds off each other, and he's really starting to put it together. If we can build on what we're doing now and get him some more help, he could be something special next year. As a huge detractor recently, I wanted to be quick to recognize him starting to turn it around.

.... Oh No. Here it comes.

I don't see it, Kaz.

JC could be a serviceable QB for the next 1-3 years while we build a team up, but I doubt that he currently is or ever will be "something special."

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't see it, Kaz.

JC could be a serviceable QB for the next 1-3 years while we build a team up, but I doubt that he currently is or ever will be "something special."

Agreed.

All of the problems which plagued him over the first half of the season are still there. Seviceable? Yes. Terrible? No.

A winner? a franchise QB? a clutch Leader? Sadly, no.

All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

I don't think anyone thinks he is Drew Brees. Also, The Saints winning had little to do with Brees, and much more to do with Redskins Special Teams. What we did see is that Campbell played exponentially better that Tom Brady against the same defense with a much worse supporting cast.

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

DEHog wrote:

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

I'm not. If Suisham makes a field goal that is made 99% of the time its over. That is your ball game. Nothing else mattered.

It's funny how "that" happens - you know, a team wins when they really should have lost 

kind of like "it" - you know this expression also, this is what some QBs have and some don't 

the fact is that Campbell is a QB but he's not a winning QB - according to some, Campbell might even be a pro-bowl QB  SO WHAT - he's still a QB that cannot win games - we don't need a Pro-Bowl QB, we need a QB who's a part of a franchise whose team finds a way to be a winner

we really need for him to continue to demonstrate that he's got a great deal to offer because that way no matter whether he stays here or goes we will get the best out of him - we will not be much better off with him as our QB but we might find someone stupid enough to think like some here that even though he doesn't win games he's a future bro-bowl player

KazooSkinsFan wrote:First, I acknowledge totally I was the one who said and largely advocated this was JC's last season in Burgundy and Gold. I have been pretty hard on him through the season as well. But the guy is turning into something special. I offer my Mea Culpa to the big guy.

I thought ey going down was the end of JC. But realistically as the line has jelled so many things started to happen. Lewis is calling a better game then Zorn, the rookies are stepping up. Fred Davis showed the critical part of the JC to WC connection was him, not ey. I'd like to see more loft on the deep throws, but they are so much better as he has had time.

We make some OL upgrades in the off season and focus on O over D for a change and with a supporting cast around him, we could be talking pro-bowls. HOF is a ways off, but the guy has the tools. The arm, the brains. He's pulling down the ball and making some heady first downs for us keeping the D honest. It all feeds off each other, and he's really starting to put it together. If we can build on what we're doing now and get him some more help, he could be something special next year. As a huge detractor recently, I wanted to be quick to recognize him starting to turn it around.

now that's a kazooism for you - that is just amazing stuff - a load of manure is what that is




this my friends is what is wrong around here - there is no future down this road

DEHog wrote:

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

and more to do with:

A Punt bouncing off our blocker,
A touchdown off a strip off an interception,
A fumble in overtime,
Missed chippy FG,
and on and on and on - reminds me of a Cream song - "If it wasn't for Bad Luck, I wouldn't have No Luck at All".

Brees is great, but give me a break.

I have to say, and I don't normally do this, but I agree with Kaz. After watching JC, he looks to be more confident, and is turning a corner. Will he be a great quarterback when the games count (towards a playoff run) - not sure, but he is not the reason the Skins have lost the last 3 games. (It must be that VOODOO Woman)

It's not that winning or losing a game has anything to do with a single player or a single play, it's that this player is not a winner - we need a QB that the voodoo woman helps to win games not ensure that he loses them

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

Absurd to think that Brees was some special gifts to the Saint's gods on Sunday. If not for dumb luck, he would have been the losing quarterback. It was strictly no big deal that he hit a guy with no defender near him for the tying TD. That was Landry's bone headed play that tied the game up, not Brees' heroics. Board members here keep basing a QB's performance, good or bad, on what their teammates do or not do for him. It's childish and bad analysis. By the way, it's simply not true that Campbell's receivers were struggling to make catches. He made excellent throw after excellent throw all day, and many of them were great examples of hitting receivers in stride. I agree with Kaz, absolutely.
JC could be another Ripien if his protection holds up. He outplayed Brees all day. Brees had a lower QB rating than Campbell for the day for a perfectly good reason-- he played better. Subtract the two longs flat out girft TD's Brees was handed on a platter, and the fact that Campbell kicked his butt would be even more obvious. While you're at it, also consider the advantage Brees had in regard to offensive line and receivers, and the gap widens further.

NC43Hog wrote:A Punt bouncing off our blocker,
A touchdown off a strip off an interception,
A fumble in overtime,
Missed chippy FG,
and on and on and on - reminds me of a Cream song - "If it wasn't for Bad Luck, I wouldn't have No Luck at All".

I agree. This will officially be the unluckiest Skins games I can remember until another one comes along to trump it.

I have to say, and I don't normally do this, but I agree with Kaz. After watching JC, he looks to be more confident, and is turning a corner. Will he be a great quarterback when the games count (towards a playoff run) - not sure, but he is not the reason the Skins have lost the last 3 games. (It must be that VOODOO Woman)

Full points for musical references. I don't think I can agree on Campbell though.

I think the most important thing about the last three weeks is that, although there are clearly some holes on the depth chart, we can finally put this "The Skins don't have the personnel to run a WCO" idiocy to rest. And obviously Campbell's a huge part of that.

Irn-Bru wrote:I don't see it, Kaz.

JC could be a serviceable QB for the next 1-3 years while we build a team up, but I doubt that he currently is or ever will be "something special."

Don't you think he's made some nice throws the last few weeks? He also has salvaged some good first downs on his feet. I love when he takes off running because I'm looking forward to his "slide." It's hilarious.

And facts are facts, with better line play and better play calling he's throwing to lots of different receivers. Unlike for his early years where it was Moss and ey period. That's opening up the running game too. Everything collapses on each other when the passing game is zero and everything feeds on each other when it's working.

brad7686 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

I don't think anyone thinks he is Drew Brees. Also, The Saints winning had little to do with Brees, and much more to do with Redskins Special Teams. What we did see is that Campbell played exponentially better that Tom Brady against the same defense with a much worse supporting cast.

Drew Brees sucked for years too. Nobody had a clue what the Saints were getting and if they say they did you know you're talking to a liar. Maybe we get the same deal from JC only in our case we keep him. That would be cool.

SkinsJock wrote: now that's a kazooism for you - that is just amazing stuff - a load of manure is what that is




this my friends is what is wrong around here - there is no future down this road

Sometimes you're right and sometimes you're wrong, but dude, you need to have more fun.

Gary Player once said: "The harder I work, the luckier I get".

I believe that this quote is very true, and it has been true at least in my lifetime. The fact is that there are a ton of excuses skins fans can use for the outcome of the game, but there is a reason the Saints came out on top. They are a better team.

People can cry and give a list of all the "ifs" about the game, but IMHO, that is precisely what the losers do. They make excuses and attempt to divert the blame away from them by justifying an outcome. The fact is that the Saints are a better team and the "bad luck" that resulted had more to do with the talent on this team then it did with luck. Shuisham sucks, Sellers can't catch or hold onto the ball, JC can't finish games, our defense has consistently given up late drives to win games. These are all things that have happened before.

And as far as the JC vs. Brees thing. This entire arguement is idiotic. I loved the point made that JC had a better passing rating. Like that matters. Dumbest comment yet. How was JC on third down? How was he when the game was on the line? Did he put the team on his shoulders? Was he a leader? He's a QB, not a RB or WR. Stats don't tell 1/10th the story for a QB.

The fact is that JC had HIS BEST GAME AS A REDSKIN IN HIS 4 YEAR CAREER AND WE LOST!!!!!!!!! What does that tell you??? It tells me a whole lot. And if it doesn't tell you something, either you aren't listening or you refuse to.

markshark84 wrote:The fact is that the Saints are a better team and the "bad luck" that resulted had more to do with the talent on this team then it did with luck

If a professional kicker makes a 23 yard field goal they lost. I agree the Saints are a better team, I agree skill creates luck. But they weren't the better team yesterday and their win was luck. The ball hitting the Skin on a short punt was the result of a BAD play by the Saints, not a good one. The field goal was outside their control. The only one you could argue was the stripped INT, but they were lucky it wasn't a more seasoned back who picked off the ball.

Your point is generally true, but to apply it to yesterday isn't. We outplayed them and our bad/their good luck wasn't created by skill. Sorry. Not this time.

markshark84 wrote:Gary Player once said: "The harder I work, the luckier I get".

I believe that this quote is very true, and it has been true at least in my lifetime. The fact is that there are a ton of excuses skins fans can use for the outcome of the game, but there is a reason the Saints came out on top. They are a better team.

People can cry and give a list of all the "ifs" about the game, but IMHO, that is precisely what the losers do. They make excuses and attempt to divert the blame away from them by justifying an outcome. The fact is that the Saints are a better team and the "bad luck" that resulted had more to do with the talent on this team then it did with luck. Shuisham sucks, Sellers can't catch or hold onto the ball, JC can't finish games, our defense has consistently given up late drives to win games. These are all things that have happened before.

And as far as the JC vs. Brees thing. This entire arguement is idiotic. I loved the point made that JC had a better passing rating. Like that matters. Dumbest comment yet. How was JC on third down? How was he when the game was on the line? Did he put the team on his shoulders? Was he a leader? He's a QB, not a RB or WR. Stats don't tell 1/10th the story for a QB.

The fact is that JC had HIS BEST GAME AS A REDSKIN IN HIS 4 YEAR CAREER AND WE LOST!!!!!!!!! What does that tell you??? It tells me a whole lot. And if it doesn't tell you something, either you aren't listening or you refuse to.

Is this some sort of joke?

Campbell's stat line for 3rd downs on Sunday: 7 attempts, 6 completions, 125 yards, 4 first downs and 2 TDs (i.e. every 3rd down pass he completed was a conversion).

Cartwright, Mason, and Ganther combined for 89 yards on the day. Campbell threw for FOUR TIMES THAT. If that doesn't qualify as carrying the team, it's because the team isn't good enough to be carried.

The reason Campbell's stats were great on Sunday is that he played great. Anybody who thinks that two bad throws should outweigh the 30 completions just doesn't have a sense of scale.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:First, I acknowledge totally I was the one who said and largely advocated this was JC's last season in Burgundy and Gold. I have been pretty hard on him through the season as well. But the guy is turning into something special. I offer my Mea Culpa to the big guy.

I thought ey going down was the end of JC. But realistically as the line has jelled so many things started to happen. Lewis is calling a better game then Zorn, the rookies are stepping up. Fred Davis showed the critical part of the JC to WC connection was him, not ey. I'd like to see more loft on the deep throws, but they are so much better as he has had time.

We make some OL upgrades in the off season and focus on O over D for a change and with a supporting cast around him, we could be talking pro-bowls. HOF is a ways off, but the guy has the tools. The arm, the brains. He's pulling down the ball and making some heady first downs for us keeping the D honest. It all feeds off each other, and he's really starting to put it together. If we can build on what we're doing now and get him some more help, he could be something special next year. As a huge detractor recently, I wanted to be quick to recognize him starting to turn it around.

You're nuts. Just like Suisham, when the game's on the line, this guy sucks. I agree there's no better alternative (in the draft or in free agency) but I can't watch him screw up another last minute drive. After the Cowboys drive 3 years ago when he threw a ridiculous interception to last week when the game was on the line and he....threw a ridiculous interception, there has been ZERO progress in this department.

I love this guy as a person and root for him every week at the game. But as Bertier says in "Remember the Titans", "Sometimes you've got to know when to cut a man loose".

brad7686 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

The Saints winning had little to do with Brees

I stopped reading there...tell me you were kidding

I'm not. If Suisham makes a field goal that is made 99% of the time its over. That is your ball game. Nothing else mattered.

Really the 1:50 didn't matter??? It took Brees 33 sec put another 7 on the board and on a day where we had a fumble for a TD, a missed 23 yarder, a INT and another fumble in OT your 100% sure that "Nothing else mattered"??

crazyhorse1 wrote:

DEHog wrote:All you have to do is look at this past weeks game...yes Campbell played well but the better NFL QB won the game....so have "it" some don't. It's a shame really I think if he could win one of these close game he'd go over the hump and gain some confidence. Watch the game again and see how Brees hit recievers in stride...and Campbell recievers struggle to make the catch and fall down while doing so at time.

Absurd to think that Brees was some special gifts to the Saint's gods on Sunday. If not for dumb luck, he would have been the losing quarterback. It was strictly no big deal that he hit a guy with no defender near him for the tying TD. That was Landry's bone headed play that tied the game up, not Brees' heroics. Board members here keep basing a QB's performance, good or bad, on what their teammates do or not do for him. It's childish and bad analysis. By the way, it's simply not true that Campbell's receivers were struggling to make catches. He made excellent throw after excellent throw all day, and many of them were great examples of hitting receivers in stride. I agree with Kaz, absolutely.
JC could be another Ripien if his protection holds up. He outplayed Brees all day. Brees had a lower QB rating than Campbell for the day for a perfectly good reason-- he played better. Subtract the two longs flat out girft TD's Brees was handed on a platter, and the fact that Campbell kicked his butt would be even more obvious. While you're at it, also consider the advantage Brees had in regard to offensive line and receivers, and the gap widens further.

Dumb luck....some of you need to face the facts
Kareem Moore FUMBLED

Kevin Barnes stood still on a punt return when his PR was telling him to get out of dodge. Shouldn't we coached that different.

We play for a FG when we could have taken a shot to close out the game
SS MISSES a 23 yard FG again coaching

JC throws an INT

Mike Sellers FUMBLED again knowing the rule shouldn't we coach to go after the fumble!!
It's not a coincidence that those plays went the way of the 11-0 team and not the 3-8 team...This game was a microcosm of our players, team, coaching staff and front office.

Stats are for fantasy and losers!!!

So Campbell great day was because he was good...
But Brees' was because of LL bone headed play..got it
You only need to ask these questions
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Campbell do?
When given the opportunity to win the game what did Brees do??

wheres the guy we had in preseason, Rayner??