The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

seal the fate on Jason Campbell's future???

I have been a staunch defender of Jason Campbell for a long time on this board. Treating RayA's rants as "bung" and just saying everything positive about Jason.

But yesterday changed my mind. Yes, he had good stats yesterday. But to me, his fate was sealed when he missed Santana wide open down the field. I have to now get beyond the multiple systems, the trying to make him a QB he is not, and to a certain extent, the OL. He had the protection and time to throw on that play and didn't get it done.

Why have I changed my mind? Because as a professional NFL QB with time to throw, you have to be able to take advantage of those opportunities and hit them. Regardless of whether or not you haven't had a chance to throw deep balls or not. That's why you practice. That's why you've done everything you have to get to that point throughout your life.

I will sum this up with a baseball analogy. Let's say Alex Rodriguez goes into a slump because pitchers are throwing him nothing but breaking balls either away or inside. Alex doesn't get the opportunity to extent his arms or to really swing at good pitches. Then one at-abat, he get's a fastball right where he likes it. Chances are, and it's not just Alex but any Major League player, it's gone. Regardless of how many times Jason get's to go down the field, he has to be able to hit a wide out Santana Moss on that play. To overthrow that to the sideline is pretty bad. An underthrow would have not been as bad. And because he wasn't able to hit Moss who had at least 3 1/2-4 steps on the CB on that play, Dallas won't be worried about the deep ball and will probably stack the box and bring the heat all day.

Combine all of this with the dysfunction that is this organization, Jason IMO, lost his sympathy points on that play. Even the inaccurate McNabb could have hit that play to Moss. So to me, the excuses are now gone. He had protection and time and came up with nothing. Some may argue that not every QB in this league hit's all of their deep balls and have misses on occasion. That's true, but when you are in the situation that this guy is in with all of the change and the other stuff going on, you have to still be able to make a play and show that you are a viable NFL QB. It's not like he has been sitting on the bench and all of a sudden he's in the game with a deep shot to Moss...

It's been that way for a while... to me it's one of the more easier throws...you put air under it...It was ironic to hear Jason say that Hunter put alot of air under his throw to Sellers...Jason had you done the same to Moss it would have been six. That throw was right towards me...no safety in sight I don't get why Jason throws that out of bounds when all he had to do was put some air under it and keep it in play.

Orton missed Royal wide open, too.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Orton missed Royal wide open, too.

He didn't miss Marshall... twice

roybus14 wrote:Combine all of this with the dysfunction that is this organization, Jason IMO, lost his sympathy points on that play. Even the inaccurate McNabb could have hit that play to Moss. So to me, the excuses are now gone. He had protection and time and came up with nothing. Some may argue that not every QB in this league hit's all of their deep balls and have misses on occasion. That's true, but when you are in the situation that this guy is in with all of the change and the other stuff going on, you have to still be able to make a play and show that you are a viable NFL QB. It's not like he has been sitting on the bench and all of a sudden he's in the game with a deep shot to Moss...

I agree. For a long time I kept looking for improvement, and each year there was talk of a new system or having to develop rhythm. After the first few games of this season, however, it became clear to me that this was something he just wasn't going to develop. Deep ball accuracy and a few intangibles are the only thing separating Jason from being a quality starter, IMO, but 5-6 years should be enough time to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

This one play didn't seal his fate, in my view . . . it's pretty much been an inevitability since his struggles began once again at the start of this season.

DEHog wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Orton missed Royal wide open, too.

He didn't miss Marshall... twice

And that's part of my point. He didn't miss on those two. He was two for three with the third being the last one. He hit the first two.

Irn-Bru wrote:

roybus14 wrote:Deep ball accuracy and a few intangibles are the only thing separating Jason from being a quality starter, IMO, but 5-6 years should be enough time to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
This one play didn't seal his fate, in my view . . . it's pretty much been an inevitability since his struggles began once again at the start of this season.

5-6 years of changing offenses has little to do with being able to throw the ball to a wideout receiver. That's like Jimmy Johnson switching cars every year for five years in Nascar and then when he's leading on the final lap he wrecks or is finishing outside the top ten each week. Yes, the cars have changed but not the ability to drive them.

I would have loved for him to hit that shot but I look at the whole body of work and he will tell you that he isn't satisfied with his performance yesterday. His throws were consistently a step behind the WR's or TE's. You have to admit though he had a few really good throws. The TD pass to Yoder and he hit ARE on an flag route from the right side. It's was right on the money.

I am really curious if our WR's are running full speed in practice. If they are not, there is no question why the timing is off. That's the only logic I can come up with that the throws are a step behind.

But eitherway, JC's got to get those long throws going - and I'm a still a huge supporter for him.

DEHog wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:Orton missed Royal wide open, too.

He didn't miss Marshall... twice

and we still won.

roybus14 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

roybus14 wrote:Deep ball accuracy and a few intangibles are the only thing separating Jason from being a quality starter, IMO, but 5-6 years should be enough time to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
This one play didn't seal his fate, in my view . . . it's pretty much been an inevitability since his struggles began once again at the start of this season.

5-6 years of changing offenses has little to do with being able to throw the ball to a wideout receiver. That's like Jimmy Johnson switching cars every year for five years in Nascar and then when he's leading on the final lap he wrecks or is finishing outside the top ten each week. Yes, the cars have changed but not the ability to drive them.

Do you know how many changes Campbell has had to adjust to as a starting QB? Two! He has had one change, ONE, since becoming the starter 4 years ago!

SO don't give me he has had too many offenses. Farve has had three different offenses in three years, but he made the two switches w/o the bennefit of an offseason program or even training camp!

Any throw that involves things like finesse, touch, etc., has escaped JCam's comprehension.

He still throws too many balls behind receivers -- and that's everything from long go routes to swing passes and dump-offs.

roybus14 wrote:seal the fate on Jason Campbell's future???

I have been a staunch defender of Jason Campbell for a long time on this board. Treating RayA's rants as "bung" and just saying everything positive about Jason.

But yesterday changed my mind. Yes, he had good stats yesterday. But to me, his fate was sealed when he missed Santana wide open down the field. I have to now get beyond the multiple systems, the trying to make him a QB he is not, and to a certain extent, the OL. He had the protection and time to throw on that play and didn't get it done.

Why have I changed my mind? Because as a professional NFL QB with time to throw, you have to be able to take advantage of those opportunities and hit them. Regardless of whether or not you haven't had a chance to throw deep balls or not. That's why you practice. That's why you've done everything you have to get to that point throughout your life.

I will sum this up with a baseball analogy. Let's say Alex Rodriguez goes into a slump because pitchers are throwing him nothing but breaking balls either away or inside. Alex doesn't get the opportunity to extent his arms or to really swing at good pitches. Then one at-abat, he get's a fastball right where he likes it. Chances are, and it's not just Alex but any Major League player, it's gone. Regardless of how many times Jason get's to go down the field, he has to be able to hit a wide out Santana Moss on that play. To overthrow that to the sideline is pretty bad. An underthrow would have not been as bad. And because he wasn't able to hit Moss who had at least 3 1/2-4 steps on the CB on that play, Dallas won't be worried about the deep ball and will probably stack the box and bring the heat all day.

Combine all of this with the dysfunction that is this organization, Jason IMO, lost his sympathy points on that play. Even the inaccurate McNabb could have hit that play to Moss. So to me, the excuses are now gone. He had protection and time and came up with nothing. Some may argue that not every QB in this league hit's all of their deep balls and have misses on occasion. That's true, but when you are in the situation that this guy is in with all of the change and the other stuff going on, you have to still be able to make a play and show that you are a viable NFL QB. It's not like he has been sitting on the bench and all of a sudden he's in the game with a deep shot to Moss...

The biggest problems I had with JC's performance yesterday have nothing to do with missing Moos, because anyone that has watched JC play knows he might throw one good deep thrown in 5 or 6 attempts. So missing a wide open Moss is nothing new. I had a problem with him missing Thomas in the endzone (yes he found Yoder two plays later, but even that throw was off) or him throwing a high fast ball to Davis when Davis was wide open in the middle of the field and he would have picked up the first and maybe as much as 30 yards.

But the play that stands out the most is the play he got called for grounding. He had Yoder WIDE OPEN, I mean NO ONE with in 10 yards of him standing at the goal line in the middle of the field and instead of him throwing the TD he throws a pass he had to know he was going to get called for grounding! THe Skins still scored on the trick play from Smith to Sellers, but they should have already put the ball in the endzone, two plays prior.

He misses wide open guys ALL THE TIME! He throws balls that are much harder to catch than needed! Balls are consistanly high or behind recievers when they are crossing the middle of the field. If the OL, Betts and Rock handn't been fantastic yesterday, there is no way we win that game.

It looked like he thought about pulling it down on that grounding play. I have a hard time thinking JC can fubar that pass like that.

Here is my hopes for next week. JC has had 1.5 games of really good line play (based off what we've seen earlier this season) and he get's a little more comfortable in the pocket. I think it's been pointed out that he has "happy feet" and lack of trust in the line. I think that's why he came out a lot better in the second half because he saw that the line better protected him in the 2nd half. Let's hope they carry the momentum into next game vs Dallas. He has to settle down a little bit and focus on his pass instead of worrying about being sacked or hit. Just make the play. That's something I've noticed Aaron Roger's does and his line might be worse than ours.

Irn-Bru wrote:I agree. For a long time I kept looking for improvement, and each year there was talk of a new system or having to develop rhythm. After the first few games of this season, however, it became clear to me that this was something he just wasn't going to develop. Deep ball accuracy and a few intangibles are the only thing separating Jason from being a quality starter, IMO, but 5-6 years should be enough time to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

Agreed with you. I was looking for improvement in him this year, but haven't really seen any.

Jason Campbell throwing 15 yds is great. Not less, definately not more. Not sure why he gets so many defenders still.

SkinsFan#33 - "But the play that stands out the most is the play he got called for grounding. He had Yoder WIDE OPEN, I mean NO ONE with in 10 yards of him standing at the goal line in the middle of the field and instead of him throwing the TD he throws a pass he had to know he was going to get called for grounding!"

You are right. I saw that one too but I think Moss' miss was the one because it was what we have been calling for all of the time: protection, time to throw, and receiver open down the field. And he missed it badly. I was screaming at the t.v. on that grounding call. That was big, too...

I have been a big defender of Campbell previously too, but this year he seems to have regressed substantially.

Sure, some of that has to do with his patchwork o-line, but even when the protection is there, he's not making good decisions.

Campbell sux.... we need Colt or Tebow or someone special. A clone of Peyton Manning or Mr. Brady.

I don't think either one of those two are like Manning or Brady.

roybus14 wrote:SkinsFan#33 - "But the play that stands out the most is the play he got called for grounding. He had Yoder WIDE OPEN, I mean NO ONE with in 10 yards of him standing at the goal line in the middle of the field and instead of him throwing the TD he throws a pass he had to know he was going to get called for grounding!"

You are right. I saw that one too but I think Moss' miss was the one because it was what we have been calling for all of the time: protection, time to throw, and receiver open down the field. And he missed it badly. I was screaming at the t.v. on that grounding call. That was big, too...

But that is nothing new. He has had several of those this year and a dozen or more last year. Expecting him to make that throw to Moss is unrealistic at this point. He has already hit Moss twice for long scores this year. He will have to get that opportunity another five or six times before you can expect him to make it again. He just has to miss four or five before he can make another. I just wouldn't expect anything better then about a 20% success rate on deep throws by Campbell and that is a bit optimistic.

He is just a terrible down field passer! He thrrows one of the worst deep balls I have ever seen. Kilmer's looked worse, but they got there!

frankcal20 wrote:I don't think either one of those two are like Manning or Brady.

No they aren't, but they aren't JC either!

tribeofjudah wrote:Campbell sux.... we need Colt or Tebow or someone special. A clone of Peyton Manning or Mr. Brady.

If you mean Colt McCoy I'm in if you mean Brennen....NO.

Tebow & Brenen are Shane Matthew-Danny Wuerffel redeux. I hope & pray this FO does not take Tebow. We will have a shot at him given our projected record & Snyders propensity to trade away draft picks.

Please NO!

SkinsHead56 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:Campbell sux.... we need Colt or Tebow or someone special. A clone of Peyton Manning or Mr. Brady.

If you mean Colt McCoy I'm in if you mean Brennen....NO.

Tebow & Brenen are Shane Matthew-Danny Wuerffel redeux. I hope & pray this FO does not take Tebow. We will have a shot at him given our projected record & Snyders propensity to trade away draft picks.

Please NO!

I couldn't agree more, if we draft Tebow I'm afraid we'll be no better off than what we are now. He's been a great college QB but I don't forsee him going very far at all in the NFL. Of course, there's always the "slim" chance that I could be wrong. As you said though, PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT DRAFT TEBOW.

I would take JC with a stud RT from the draft vs more of the same o-line and a rookie QB getting sacked, no running game any day.