The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I just have one question for all of you. Can our offense really get that much worse? Since Jim Zorn is an Offensive Head Coach and we have probably the worst offense in the league this year do you fire him now? I know a lot of people feel that you dont fire a coach mid-season but I dont understand how we can turn this around unless there is a huge change . I believe if Sherman or Buges takes over the playcalling and maybe Blatche as the interim HC the team cant get much worse so do you do it now? I honestly dont think the season is lost either if you fire Zorn, I think we can rally and pull together I mean we pretty much hit rock bottom today so now its time to rise. Not that it is probable to fire Zorn and start winning but we have to do something to maybe get this team on track for the future or/and finish well and maybe still make a playoff run.

my question is who you put in to take his place. That's the question so depending on what the answer is, I can't vote.

I definitely want him gone, but it can only cause a messy PR situation to let him go now ala Lane Kiffin. Might as well brave out the year but I would LOVE a Holmgren (GM)/Gruden (HC) combo next season.

Zorn is overmatched but he's only the latest victim of the fustercluck that is in place above him on the food chain.

RedskinsFreak wrote:Zorn is overmatched but he's only the latest victim of the fustercluck that is in place above him on the food chain.

Yep...I have said all along if Vinny and Danny think this is the guy..give him his full three years...OK two

frankcal20 wrote:my question is who you put in to take his place. That's the question so depending on what the answer is, I can't vote.

I can't vote because the question is better framed as:

Should we fall on a sword and throw the team into disarray ensuring we get nothing out of the season so critical fans who want to say "I told you so" can feel smug?

The better question is..."does this appear to be Zorn's last season?"

You know, DEHog, another way to look at it would be that a new coach unless they are on the current staff is going to come in and start behind the 8 ball because they would not be able to change anything while we're running through the rapids of early to mid season. Why would you want to get a new coach and have them start from such a disadvantaged position? Wouldn't that just be setting them up to fail?

Today I cried. I just think they have given up on Zorn and yes it sounds silly but true

Zorn has to go a change is needed let blatche fill in and let sherman take over the play calling and we can get someone new next year

jizzleman wrote:Zorn has to go a change is needed let blatche fill in and let sherman take over the play calling and we can get someone new next year

Sure...let's screw the team so we can screw Zorn, that's a way to get us on the right path...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

jizzleman wrote:Zorn has to go a change is needed let blatche fill in and let sherman take over the play calling and we can get someone new next year

Sure...let's screw the team so we can screw Zorn, that's a way to get us on the right path...

Jizzleman you act as if we have a chance this team cant beat the loins this was a wake up call. I vote for change and that mean that idiot Vinny goes with Zore.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

jizzleman wrote:Zorn has to go a change is needed let blatche fill in and let sherman take over the play calling and we can get someone new next year

Sure...let's screw the team so we can screw Zorn, that's a way to get us on the right path...

Jizzleman you act as if we have a chance this team cant beat the loins this was a wake up call. I vote for change and that mean that idiot Vinny goes with Zore.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

jizzleman wrote:Zorn has to go a change is needed let blatche fill in and let sherman take over the play calling and we can get someone new next year

Sure...let's screw the team so we can screw Zorn, that's a way to get us on the right path...

Jizzleman you act as if we have a chance this team cant beat the loins this was a wake up call. I vote for change and that mean that idiot Vinny goes with Zore.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:my question is who you put in to take his place. That's the question so depending on what the answer is, I can't vote.

I can't vote because the question is better framed as:

Should we fall on a sword and throw the team into disarray ensuring we get nothing out of the season so critical fans who want to say "I told you so" can feel smug?

The better question is..."does this appear to be Zorn's last season?"

You know, DEHog, another way to look at it would be that a new coach unless they are on the current staff is going to come in and start behind the 8 ball because they would not be able to change anything while we're running through the rapids of early to mid season. Why would you want to get a new coach and have them start from such a disadvantaged position? Wouldn't that just be setting them up to fail?

I don't want a new coach....I have always wanted them to give JZ the full three years...not sure that's going to happen...so I said two (full years).

Now my fears are that the players force a change...what do you do when the players start to throw the coach under the bus??

DEHog wrote:I don't want a new coach....I have always wanted them to give JZ the full three years...not sure that's going to happen...so I said two (full years).

Now my fears are that the players force a change...what do you do when the players start to throw the coach under the bus??

I like your philosophy that three years is the goal, but that you're realistic that sometimes it just isn't working out that way. I agreed with firing Pettibone in one even though I loved him as D coordinator for so long because he just seemed to be such a poor fit as HC and I agreed with firing Marty in one because I thought he was a horses rear end and hated him and his "I am God, ask me no questions and expect no explanations" style. I wanted Norv to have three, though not as many as he got and I hadn't given up on Spurrier yet in his two, though I'd given up on his all not ready for the NFL staff.

With Zorn, I agree that this year is it unless there's a miracle and I know what you're saying with him on the sidelines, though I think "deer in the headlights" is a little strong. I think he's clearly frustrated though and it's showing. But there is still the chance the team circles the wagons and pulls it together as a team and if we can him now there's none and as I said we're setting up his replacement for failure. Firing a coach three games into the season IS disarray and worse then any outcome keeping him. If the team continues to struggle it's better then bringing in any coach cold who can't change anything until after the season anyway.

We're not totally disagreeing on things in any of these even though we're not in total agreement either.

dup

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:I don't want a new coach....I have always wanted them to give JZ the full three years...not sure that's going to happen...so I said two (full years).

Now my fears are that the players force a change...what do you do when the players start to throw the coach under the bus??

I like your philosophy that three years is the goal, but that you're realistic that sometimes it just isn't working out that way. I agreed with firing Pettibone in one even though I loved him as D coordinator for so long because he just seemed to be such a poor fit as HC and I agreed with firing Marty in one because I thought he was a horses rear end and hated him and his "I am God, ask me no questions and expect no explanations" style. I wanted Norv to have three, though not as many as he got and I hadn't given up on Spurrier yet in his two, though I'd given up on his all not ready for the NFL staff.

With Zorn, I agree that this year is it unless there's a miracle and I know what you're saying with him on the sidelines, though I think "deer in the headlights" is a little strong. I think he's clearly frustrated though and it's showing. But there is still the chance the team circles the wagons and pulls it together as a team and if we can him now there's none and as I said we're setting up his replacement for failure. Firing a coach three games into the season IS disarray and worse then any outcome keeping him. If the team continues to struggle it's better then bringing in any coach cold who can't change anything until after the season anyway.

We're not totally disagreeing on things in any of these even though we're not in total agreement either.

I see nothing positive with firing Zorn now either, I just didn't like what I saw today...I saw a coach coaching to not lose his job instead of coaching to win. Ask yourself this question did Zorn do the things that he was critizied for not doing last week by the fans and the media?

DEHog wrote:I see nothing positive with firing Zorn now either, I just didn't like what I saw today...I saw a coach coaching to not lose his job instead of coaching to win. Ask yourself this question did Zorn do the things that he was critizied for not doing last week by the fans and the media?

Again we agree on a lot of what we're seeing. I think Zorn was right that he needed a TD, I don't think the decision was driven by fans and the media. But I also think he basically put himself in that position, particularly last week.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:I see nothing positive with firing Zorn now either, I just didn't like what I saw today...I saw a coach coaching to not lose his job instead of coaching to win. Ask yourself this question did Zorn do the things that he was critizied for not doing last week by the fans and the media?

Again we agree on a lot of what we're seeing. I think Zorn was right that he needed a TD, I don't think the decision was driven by fans and the media. But I also think he basically put himself in that position, particularly last week.

It so funny how things work out a couple of caught balls and who knows...

Do you think he still has the team??

I thought that Zorn tried to give CP a hug after the first touchdown drive and CP pushed him away. Anyone else see this and have the same impression?

JansenFan wrote:I thought that Zorn tried to give CP a hug after the first touchdown drive and CP pushed him away. Anyone else see this and have the same impression?

Yep...hence my saying I'm worried about the team forcing him out.

If it wasn't just me, then I can't help but think that no coach will ever have this team without CP. Love him or hate him, he's popular amongst his team mates. Its also hard to keep an O-Line on your side when you run the ball 5 times in the first half, or call a terrible game inside the 20's. I like Jim Zorn, but his play calling in the red zone baffles me. He calls a great game until he gets close to the end zone and then he forgets what got them there. No need to be creative. Its execution of the plays we need, not cutesy crap.

DEHog wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:I don't want a new coach....I have always wanted them to give JZ the full three years...not sure that's going to happen...so I said two (full years).

Now my fears are that the players force a change...what do you do when the players start to throw the coach under the bus??

I like your philosophy that three years is the goal, but that you're realistic that sometimes it just isn't working out that way. I agreed with firing Pettibone in one even though I loved him as D coordinator for so long because he just seemed to be such a poor fit as HC and I agreed with firing Marty in one because I thought he was a horses rear end and hated him and his "I am God, ask me no questions and expect no explanations" style. I wanted Norv to have three, though not as many as he got and I hadn't given up on Spurrier yet in his two, though I'd given up on his all not ready for the NFL staff.

With Zorn, I agree that this year is it unless there's a miracle and I know what you're saying with him on the sidelines, though I think "deer in the headlights" is a little strong. I think he's clearly frustrated though and it's showing. But there is still the chance the team circles the wagons and pulls it together as a team and if we can him now there's none and as I said we're setting up his replacement for failure. Firing a coach three games into the season IS disarray and worse then any outcome keeping him. If the team continues to struggle it's better then bringing in any coach cold who can't change anything until after the season anyway.

We're not totally disagreeing on things in any of these even though we're not in total agreement either.

I see nothing positive with firing Zorn now either, I just didn't like what I saw today...I saw a coach coaching to not lose his job instead of coaching to win. Ask yourself this question did Zorn do the things that he was critizied for not doing last week by the fans and the media?

I also agree that firing Zorn at this juncture is not constructive. I have been wondering how bad would the team need to be were Vinny along with Zorn would be held accountable for the state of the team?

The Danny should fire Zorn now. Then he should decide who to replace him and fire him too. Then he should let Vinny coach and he and Tom Cruise can critique Vinny's ability each week. They can tell each other how smart and fabulous they are. Then they can figure out how to charge the fans more for the whole experience.

cleg wrote:The Danny should fire Zorn now. Then he should decide who to replace him and fire him too. Then he should let Vinny coach and he and Tom Cruise can critique Vinny's ability each week. They can tell each other how smart and fabulous they are. Then they can figure out how to charge the fans more for the whole experience.

I don't get the chance to listen to Vinny C on the radio often, but the few times he has come on the NFL on Sirus the guy reminds me of the Billy Mays of GM's.

For now, Washington Redskins head coach Jim Zorn appears to be safe.


Even with the vultures circling, the Redskins are not expected to make any moves with Zorn, a team source said Sunday night, hours after Washington suffered a historic loss to the Detroit Lions.

To make a move with Zorn now would present more complications than it is worth. Zorn is the head coach, the play caller, works closely with quarterback Jason Campbell. To lose him at this point would be too much for the team to overcome, the Redskins believe.

Calls certainly will mount for Zorn's job now that the Redskins have started this season 1-2 and are 3-8 in their last 11 games.

Few teams have been any more unstable than the Redskins, who have had five different head coaches, and one additional interim coach, in the past 10 years.

Adam Schefter is an NFL reporter for ESPN Insider.

Don't get your hopes up.