The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Zorn and Campbell should be out of here AND I'm all for Collins starting the remainder of the season. I see why they tried to get Sanchez (although the skins would have destroyed his career with multiple OC and bad playcalling). We are in store for 7-9 season.

while they probably should, replacing a HC and QB after 1 game is not happening, even with the numb nuts who run this team - I will say that Zorn had better get his act together very quickly because if he loses control of things, he could be out of here quicker than the guy who claimed he was going to show us all how good a QB he is

Fortunately we have a schedule that allows some wiggle room, but, if we do not show:
1) the dominance expected on defense
2) better play calling
3) better offensive line play
4) much better QB play and decision making

THEN ... we will possibly see another screw-up attempt by these 2 bozos to build the MEDIOCRE team that they are responsible for assembling to date.

IF these 2 do try and do anything to this team this year - The only acceptable change to me is to bring in a GM and get rid of Cerrato

btw - there is no way I felt that the play of the defense had anything to do with the outcome of that game - on the contrary, I felt that the D was OK considering this was their first game and a lot of those big guys are just not in the sort of shape that they need to be when the offense cannot give them any time to catch their breath

the many offensive issues that many here felt would not be an issue are a major problem

IMO - IF we had decent management they would have at least tried Jon Runyan on this line OR made sure that we had a decent line to give this QB, who needs all day, a chance

The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

Deadskins wrote:The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

You said it. I was tempted to hit the panic button myself, but I remembered - it's ONE game. Sure, it was a loss, but it was against a good team, and was closer than last year. Some people may be headed for the lifeboats, but it's far too early to abandon ship just yet.

Deadskins wrote:The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

That's alright. We'll all have a big group hug and endure this thing together!

Deadskins wrote:The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

The truth hurts considering that it was a chronicle well forecasted throughout the offseason and preseason.

Our bet is still on, right? Just making sure you have not backed down ...

Mursilis wrote:You said it. I was tempted to hit the panic button myself, but I remembered - it's ONE game. Sure, it was a loss, but it was against a good team, and was closer than last year. Some people may be headed for the lifeboats, but it's far too early to abandon ship just yet.

And make no mistake about it: Todd Collins would be a sure sign of abandoning ship. The guy will not take us to the Super Bowl, and he has no future here. That means that if Collins goes in, it's time to start looking toward next year.

Which is why I hope Campbell gets at least 13 games, win or lose. There's no reason to give up on this season.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Deadskins wrote:The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

Wholeheartedly agreed.

That's alright. We'll all have a big group hug and endure this thing together!

Not too tight, PLEASE.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Deadskins wrote:The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

The truth hurts considering that it was a chronicle well forecasted throughout the offseason and preseason.

Our bet is still on, right? Just making sure you have not backed down ...

Right. We lose the first game, and the "I told you so" folks come out of the woodwork. It's bad enough that G-string fans are smug in this victory, but when the Skins fan negatizers follow suit, it just eats me up.

Irn-Bru wrote:Which is why I hope Campbell gets at least 13 games, win or lose. There's no reason to give up on this season.

I agree that JC gets a bit more time. At least 13 games? Well, that is debatable depending on the wins and loses. I would bet that if we do not win the next two games, he might be gone as early as Week 4. Why do we keep Collins as a back up if people have such a low opinion of him?

"Giving up" on the season is a relative term. What does it mean? Stop watching? Accept a losing record? No. it will not happen. Skins fans are loyal and the team is good enough to end up 8 - 8. They will win some. Just enough to end up with another mediocre season.

Somehow, your post reads as if you are -really- trying hard to get some light out of a cloudy day. I would be interested to know why you feel this is not likely to be another mediocre season. It is too easy to argue that it will not be a disaster of 6 -10 or worse.

Negatives observed:

1. Pass rush was modest at best...need more push to not exploit secondary (which was supposed to be better than what was seen on the field).

2. Play calling was pop-warner at best...unless Zorn doesn't trust Campbell (which then leads to further questions).

3. Offensive line run blocking (minus Portis big run at the beginning, he was invisible).

Positives observed:

1. Turnovers finally came to us (and we should have had 3).

2. Offensive line pass blocking (given what we had to defend, and what we have on the field, I think they did a good job). It was Campbell and his slow windup and decision making that made the line look worse than they were. The fumble/TD was ALL Campbell. Had he stepped into the HUGE pocket, he probably had at LEAST one one-on-one downfield to expose.

3. Special teams played better than I expected, given the loss of Khary and Thrash. The Hunter sweep needs injected into the playbook, STAT!

4. Haynesworth is a man-child. Ripping off helmets is always good clean fun.

5. ARE in the slot was nice...ARE option play not-so-nice. Leave the option toss to Portis.

Bottom line, we played a great team in hostile territory for our first game of the year and lost by 6. Now the coaches have something to build off. I'm not abandoning the team quite yet. Hopefully that ABYSMAL performance Campbell logged will release this Dragon we've yet to see. BTW, we have THREE 6' plus receivers...you would think we could exploit the red-zone with SOMETHING/ANYTHING.

skinz74 wrote:2. Play calling was pop-warner at best.

...

BTW, we have THREE 6' plus receivers...you would think we could exploit the red-zone with SOMETHING/ANYTHING.

That's what I'm talking about.

Except that Moss and Randle El were on the field in the red zone packages. Clearly Zorn doesn't trust Campbell!!!11!1!

Seriously, anybody who can't see that the passing game is better than it was this time last year didn't watch the Giants game last year. The hallmark of the post-Spurrier Redskins, the 4-yard out on 3rd & 5, was nowhere to be seen.

I think there's reason to be concerned about the run blocking, the pass rush (although with the youth in the rotation there's no reason to expect that won't get better), and Santana Moss getting OWNED all game by Corey Webster. Also, I'm not sure if Reed Doughty should ever be on the field, but any play call that involves him "blitzing" might as well be a 10-man tribute to ST.

Campbell will be fine.

Few points that I want to make:

1. It's only the first game of the season and that was against a pretty NYG football team.

2. The play calling on offense. People may not make much of it but that series after we stuffed them on the goal line spoke volumes as to the lack of experience and lack of confidence Zorn has. Three straight hand offs without even a sniff of taking a shot at a quick slant or a shot down the field.

3. The play calling on defense. We got Haynesworth getting push and we are playing Orakpo in a position where he looked lost most of the day. Haynesworth getting push and taking up two-three lineman should have been openings for more blitzing or calling something to get somebody to Eli. Add to that, not knowing when to play press coverage and have a zone with too much space in it.

4. It's time that Jason Campbell starts becoming "Auburn" Jason because this trying to please Zorn, playing the way Zorn wants him to ain't working. He can play and it seems that Zorn either doesn't want him to or has planted a seed in Jason's mind that he has to play a certain way in order to keep his job.

5. Are we ruining another potential defensive phenom??? Why are we trying to turn a DE into a LB with Orakpo?? The results were so-so in the preseason on his LB performance, so why are we trying to stick with it? Greg Blache has a window here where he will either make this kid great or break this kid. I am planting this seed now but hope that Blache can prove me wrong. I will wait and see....

6. Great players find a way to make plays. We didn't have that on either side of the ball yesterday. Carlos drops yet another INT. Smoot misses a tackle that could have possibly made a difference late. Hall can't tackle and was just terrible yesterday. Santana, well, you saw it.

Listen. These are just observations and it is far from panic time or calling for someone's job right now. But we need to see is improvement in the play calling on both sides of the ball. Improvement at the QB position in, that he loosens up and justs makes plays. And overall more energy and more plays being made. One could say many things about yesterdays game and could jump on the "bench JC" or "fire Zorn" bandwagons. But it's not necessary. If this HC can't make the adjustments he needs to make and then get his coaching staff and these players to make the adjustments they need to make, then maybe he's in over his head. Or maybe, just maybe, it's time to clean house on the roster....

Face it, we just don't match up very well with the G-men....The same way that PHI doesn't match up well with us. The only thing that really concerned me in this game was the fact that Zorn seemed hesitant to throw the ball on a depleated Giant secondary. That either means he has no confidence in Campbell, or he has no idea how to call plays, both of which don't bode well as the season goes on. Come back next week and get to 1-1 and put this one behind us.

skinz74 wrote:Negatives observed:

1. Pass rush was modest at best...need more push to not exploit secondary (which was supposed to be better than what was seen on the field).

2. Play calling was pop-warner at best...unless Zorn doesn't trust Campbell (which then leads to further questions).

3. Offensive line run blocking (minus Portis big run at the beginning, he was invisible).

Positives observed:

1. Turnovers finally came to us (and we should have had 3).

2. Offensive line pass blocking (given what we had to defend, and what we have on the field, I think they did a good job). It was Campbell and his slow windup and decision making that made the line look worse than they were. The fumble/TD was ALL Campbell. Had he stepped into the HUGE pocket, he probably had at LEAST one one-on-one downfield to expose.

3. Special teams played better than I expected, given the loss of Khary and Thrash. The Hunter sweep needs injected into the playbook, STAT!

4. Haynesworth is a man-child. Ripping off helmets is always good clean fun.

5. ARE in the slot was nice...ARE option play not-so-nice. Leave the option toss to Portis.

Bottom line, we played a great team in hostile territory for our first game of the year and lost by 6. Now the coaches have something to build off. I'm not abandoning the team quite yet. Hopefully that ABYSMAL performance Campbell logged will release this Dragon we've yet to see. BTW, we have THREE 6' plus receivers...you would think we could exploit the red-zone with SOMETHING/ANYTHING.

Dude, if you ripped off my skull and pulled out the part in charge of thinking about the Redskins and downloaded it to a message board, it would look exactly like your post.

Deadskins wrote:That's what I'm talking about.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it gets worse, brother. This morning when I logged on here the background for the threads/posts was <gulp>

BLACK.

As in the color of funerals. As in we're dead....

Oy vey -

We're officially in the end times. Dogs and cats living together, chaos and madness as far as the eye can see....AM/PM's no longer carrying Hostess Dunkin Stix...you get my drift.

<shudder>

The guy will not take us to the Super Bowl, and he has no future here.

Neither will JC and he has no future on this team, or in the NFL for that matter.

Deadskins wrote:The worst part of this loss is having to endure posts like these for the foreseeable future.

This is so true. Hey guys, we lost to a very good team in our first game on the road. Let's chuck the season entirely right now!!!!

I mean I'm not looking for Super Bowl tickets on eBay right now, but chuck the season after one game? Hey, thanks for that...

Negatives observed:

1. Pass rush was modest at best...need more push to not exploit secondary (which was supposed to be better than what was seen on the field).

Agreed. Part of the problem though is that Orakpo is being wasted at LB. Daniels looks old and slow at defensive end. Hopefully we'll see more of Orakpo at end and less at lb.

2. Play calling was pop-warner at best...unless Zorn doesn't trust Campbell (which then leads to further questions).

Agreed. For a guy that was supposed to revamp the passing game Zorn has been a total failure as an offensive play caller. I have almost zero faith in him right now as either a head coach or as a play caller.

3. Offensive line run blocking (minus Portis big run at the beginning, he was invisible).

Agreed. They got no push and Heyer, in particular, looked bad both run and pass blocking. He is going to be the weak link on the oline all season.

Positives observed:

1. Turnovers finally came to us (and we should have had 3).

It was nice to see the turnovers finally. Rogers has got to learn to hold onto the football though. That is what is holding him back from being an elite corner.

4. Haynesworth is a man-child. Ripping off helmets is always good clean fun.

Haynesworth was very good when he was in the game, but he spent WAY TOO MUCH time taking a knee on the sidelines.

5. ARE in the slot was nice...ARE option play not-so-nice. Leave the option toss to Portis.

ARE made some nice plays, but is it too much to ask for him to break a tackle every once in a while. I don't think that I have ever seen a player in the NFL that goes down as easily as ARE.

I posted these stats on another thread, but putting this loss completely on Campbell is just retarded. Look at the stats yesterday:

Campbell was 19/26 for 211 yards. 1 TD. 1 INT. Avg yds 8.1
Manning was 20/29 for 256 yards. 1 TD. 1 INT. Avg yds 8.8

Nearly identical and yet the Giants won the game. Sorry but we just got beat by an all around better team yesterday.

As for Campbell, I think we just have to wait and see. I heard Mark Rypien on the radio the other day saying he was concerned JC just isn't a good fit for this style of offense. Could be right - I think we'll all know for sure by the end of the month.

I want to start a Chant: ZORNY! ZORNY! ZORNY! Yes, I want him and this team to succeed. Forget Cowher and Shannahan for now... we have ZORNY...OK?

We can still salvage this season at 0-1 with 15 games remaining.

Irn-Bru wrote:

Mursilis wrote:You said it. I was tempted to hit the panic button myself, but I remembered - it's ONE game. Sure, it was a loss, but it was against a good team, and was closer than last year. Some people may be headed for the lifeboats, but it's far too early to abandon ship just yet.

And make no mistake about it: Todd Collins would be a sure sign of abandoning ship. The guy will not take us to the Super Bowl, and he has no future here. That means that if Collins goes in, it's time to start looking toward next year.

Which is why I hope Campbell gets at least 13 games, win or lose. There's no reason to give up on this season.

While many will be surprised by this, I agree. It is too early to abandon the JC ship mainly because TC is not going to be here over the long run. Due to his age, we cannot invest in him. Regardless of the fact that the problems we had in the NYG game were the EXACT problems we had last season, we need to give JC his games this year. While I am confident we will not see the improvement many expect from JC, we need to give him his final chance (which were many, IMHO).

With that said, I do believe that TC does give us a better chance of winning, but he will not get us to the SB. Then again neither will JC and TC was the last QB to get us to the playoffs.....who knows --- we are in quite the predicament.

And with that said, it would be nice to see some improvement from JC, but in the NYG game, he was the exact same JC as last year --- with almost the exact same numbers. Where is that inner dragon? What a joke. It was all talk. If he was going to show us something, wouldn't he have come out of the gates charging? Deep down, I always hoped I would be proven wrong, but the issues JC has are glaring.

If we were to say give him 13, why not give him all 16? If we are horrible this year, it would be nice to snag McCoy, Bradford, Snead, Tebow, or even Dan LeFevoir. There are tons of QBs coming out next year. If we lose at least 9 games, we will be able to snag at least one.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT, IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM, SAYING WE SHOULD THROW THE SEASON FOR A QB. HOWEVER, WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID I DID WANT US TO THROW THE SEASON TO DRAFT TONY RICE OF NOTRE DAME BACK IN THE LATE 80s.....MAN WAS I NAIVE.

In terms of Zorn --- which I have yet to address --- his play calling was straight up bad. His screen plays and the predictability was atrocious. If any of you saw "The Waterboy" -- remember when the Louisiana coach was reading out of "how to coach college football for idiots" book. That is the way I felt watching the game. Zorn doesn't use what he has on the field. We knew the NYGs were going to put 8 in the box and force JC to throw. Why didn't he adjust for that? Why hasn't he come up with a plan. That is the Defensive set he saw all of the second half of last year. Why didn't he create a scheme against that D in the offseason? I do think that Zorn is a nice guy, but his play calls are not solid. He needs an offensive coordinator so he can concentrate on running the team. If he doesn't do something to change this, he'll be out by 2010.

HitDoctor wrote:Zorn and Campbell should be out of here AND I'm all for Collins starting the remainder of the season. I see why they tried to get Sanchez (although the skins would have destroyed his career with multiple OC and bad playcalling). We are in store for 7-9 season.

I agree on several levels. The play calling was too conservative at the beginning of the game. I realize that you can't throw the ball all the time backed up to your end zone, but you have to sometime to take pressure off the run game. IF you cannot pass the ball effectively then you cannot run the ball effectively. If we can't get a win this week we can start calling for changes. A big win is a must!

riggofan wrote:I posted these stats on another thread, but putting this loss completely on Campbell is just retarded

Who put this loss "completely on Campbell?" I haven't seen a single person say that. Not one. We can't criticize his play unless it's completely his fault? I'm calling you out for this stupid statement, who are you rebutting? Show me a quote that says it's "completely" Campbell's fault from anyone.