The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Please keep all post-game discussion in this thread. Thanks!

MARKO MITCHELL! ORAKPO! CHASE! FRED DAVIS1!!!

As a Mizzou fan, I'm really excited with the way Chase played tonight. It would really be exciting if he made this team.

Marko Mitchell has a mouth full of teeth, jeeez!

Marcus Mason has to make this team, he has incredible vision and that'll translate regardless of the talent level he's against.

We need to put him at KR, he wants to do it, why won't they put him back there?

If we had to get rid of Brennan or Daniel, which one would it be?
I've been a fan of Brennan since we picked him up, but Daniel was looking pretty good tonight.

Thoughts on the game...

Was nice to get a win, even though it's only preseason.

JC looked terrible. On that first deep throw to Kelly he held the ball for too long and didn't put enough air under the ball. It's painfully obvious that he isn't the our long term answer at qb. Collins was so/so. He had that pick but that was as much Devin Thomas' fault as his. Chase Daniel was very impressive. Colt had another poor game and I wonder where things stand for the #3 spot.

Not much to say about ARE and Moss as they didn't get much work. Kelly and Mitchell were very impressive. I would imagine that Mitchell is now the leader for the 5th wr spot. Thomas was unimpressive and that one int was partially his fault.

Orakpo, as a pass rusher, had another great game. As a linebacker, he has a good amount to work on.

The first string oline did a good job, which is a positive sign.

Was nice to see Fred Davis score that td.

Deangelo Hall looked good tonight, but Rogers was giving too much cushion. Tryon looked bad again imo. I wonder if he gets cut.

Chris Wilson played well and was key to our success on that last drive.

Marcus Mason looked good but I just dont see how he makes the team.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Collins was so/so.

Collins did pretty good, he got screwed by 2 WR's tho. Thomas and the guy on the sidelines. TC is 100x better than JC at this point, just like he was in 2007.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Tryon looked bad again imo. I wonder if he gets cut.

Gregg was pleased with them, Tryon played decently IMO. Gregg said after the game he called the same coverages to see if he and Barnes improved and they did. He was pleased and was moreso pissed at the 1st stringers.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Marcus Mason looked good but I just dont see how he makes the team.

He has to. IMHO. He has great vision and that same vision could be used on returns.

The ESPN 980 jokers are saying Brennans in trouble; I doubt it, we'd be idiotic to ditch Brennan, we've seen his upside, he needs to struggle some to give coaches some material to work with him on. Brennan was a 2-3 yr project anyway and this is yr 2, so if there is a choice imo its Collins or Daniel

He has to. IMHO. He has great vision and that same vision could be used on returns.

I agree. It's a numbers game though. I think that Betts and Rock are pretty much locks to be on the team. I'd like to see him on the team but I doubt it happens.

Am I the only one that thinks that the starting qb job should be opened up? Collins looks much better than JC to me?

CanesSkins26 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks that the starting qb job should be opened up? Collins looks much better than JC to me?

Yes but Zorn won't do it after he committed to JC. I do expect JC to be on a very short leash tho.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

He has to. IMHO. He has great vision and that same vision could be used on returns.

I agree. It's a numbers game though. I think that Betts and Rock are pretty much locks to be on the team. I'd like to see him on the team but I doubt it happens.

I don't think that Rock or Betts should be a lock. Neither one is very good. I've never liked Betts and Rock is just a mediocre kick returner. Get someone (Mason) on this friggin' team that is willing to try to make a play. I loved what I saw from both Mason and Dorsey. I would take either one over Betts or Rock.

QB play:

Where do I start? Campbell should be benched/released. Horrible. I hate Collins, but even he looked better than Campbell. I would actually like to have Collins released, have numbnuts Campbell start, but with a VERY short leash. Both Brennan and Daniel looked pretty good. They both need some work, but I'll take rookie mistakes over Campbell's play any day. At least those two are willing to try to make a play.

Also, what happened on that first drive? Why go for a FG/extra point? Show some balls Zorn. It IS preseason. Worst case you don't get it and pin you opponent back...DEEP! I've seen it twice since then (Bronos/Seahawks) that they both went for it.

Have I ever mentioned I think Devin Thomas sucks? Just saw the INT Collins threw intended for Thomas, Theismann says "that's what you get with a DB driving on the ball and a WR waiting for the ball to come to him, the youth of Devin Thomas" Of course Thomas was waiting for the ball and not attacking it, he probably blames Collins too.

Anyone still want to debate who's better Devin or Malcom, how about Devin or Marko? Answer: Malcom and Marko

Gibbs4Life wrote:The ESPN 980 jokers are saying Brennans in trouble; I doubt it, we'd be idiotic to ditch Brennan, we've seen his upside, he needs to struggle some to give coaches some material to work with him on. Brennan was a 2-3 yr project anyway and this is yr 2, so if there is a choice imo its Collins or Daniel

There is no way Collins gets cut. Especially with the way Campbell has looked, we can't go into the season with Brennan and Daniel as our only emergency answers if Campbell goes down. Neither of them is NFL ready, and that would be disastrous. Perhaps if Jim Zorn and Chris Meidt really see some promise in the young QB from Mizzou he will get a practice squad spot, but I doubt it. Its Chase or Colt.

I too think it would be clear by now if JC was our guy, and he's not. Look at Brady, Manning, Cutler, etc. Even in preseason, you can tell they are great. You practice how you play, and you can't just "turn it on" for week 1.

I am more perplexed by our RB/KR situation. It seems like there could be some real upside to Mason and Dorsey, and even Alridge if he gets healthy in time. I think Ladell Betts is a lock because he is an insurance policy for Portis. But the third spot is up for grabs, and I just don't know what Zorn will decide to do.

In my opinion, our third RB should be a risk/reward guy, because we won't be counting on him at RB, but could use him if he falshes play-making ability. I think Mason and Dorsey are these kind of backs, while Rock is just the opposite. Zero risk, zero reward. He WILL NOT take one the distance, but he also will get it to the 30 without coughing it up. At this point, I think Dorsey's KR/PR skills give him the edge over Mason, but not by much. I love Rock, but we need a fresh young RB. Last year's RB draft class made me hungry for fresh legs....err. That's akward

Why did Chase go in before Colt anyway? Colt's pick was a result of him forcing something that wasn't there when he had the check down, he is the anti Jason Campbell in that Colt despises the check down esp. in the red zone. Colt's a gambler, gunslinger and thats just who is he is so I think the learning opportunity that'll come out of that int will in the long run be better than if he had thrown a td.

We can't cut Colt Brennan, it would be moronic.

I have real mixed feelings about this game. Basically, I don't consider anything past the first quarter to mean that much but I was happy to see Fred Davis make some plays. MK has a nice catch too and Marko needs to make the team. I liked the way Daniel played but it was more or less meaningless.

Our D Line is impressive and Orakpo is the real deal.

JC...I have officially fallen off his bandwagon. I don't quite understand what is wrong with him and why he is so slow to make decisions. I suppose if the defense is good enough all JC would need to do is manage the game. However, for as good as the D line looked the secondary was suspect. It does not matter if we get pressure on the QB and shut down the running game if the DB's and safety can't play.

Mixed feelings, but better than I felt after the Ravens game.

From the gametime thread:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:A few quick observations from the 1st half...

JC? Damn son... Kelly had a step and JC under-threw another deep pass. That boy better step it up... quickly.

He has no touch on that deep ball, no feel for it!

Not only that but he's late getting rid of the ball. On that first deep ball to Kelly he should've thrown the ball sooner.

That's not really it. Kelly was going right to left, and JC threw it straight down field. Kelly had to adjust his route to try to get to the deeper (than his original trajectory) thrown pass. If JC just leads him on his route, he catches that ball with a couple of steps on the defender, and can then turn upfield for extra yards. JC has no touch (or accuracy) on his deep ball.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks that the starting qb job should be opened up? Collins looks much better than JC to me?

I'm not in this camp. We've been grooming JC for five years, and it's been pretty clear that this is his last chance to make it happen. That means, in my opinion, going at least half of the season without any question as to who our #1 QB is.

If we were one piece away from the Superbowl — a good starting QB — and Collins looked very good, then I think this might make sense. But I don't think we're one piece away from a SB, and Collins isn't too much of an improvement over JC. So I'd rather see us stick with Jason for this year, and address the quarterback position next offseason if he can't handle it.

Irn-Bru wrote:Collins isn't too much of an improvement over JC.

While I agree with what you're saying in a way, in some ways I disagree. JC was 1-7 and it had nothing to do with just being preseason.

JC had...

- Malcolm Kelly deep on the first snap of the game but threw it behind him with Troy Polamalu closing. Incomplete.

- A little flip to Portis in the flat wasn’t close.

- He had Santana Moss on an in-cut running free but threw it too high.

At this point, completions are a night and day improvement. Todd makes those throws, his only issues came from when the 3rd string WR's let him down last night.

Hell, Chase Daniels threw a beautiful swing pass to Mason, JC can't do that.

JC just doesn't have it. He doesn't have the decision making, he doesn't have the touch, why waste a season to figure out something many have known for quite some time. I mean, i get you, i kno we need some sort of closure to it but it's going to ruin our season....

And who's to say we couldnt make it to the SB with a competent QB, TC was knocking on the door in 2007. People mocked me for saying he was the KEY IMPROVEMENT, and now everyone is realizing I wasn't crazy.

Deadskins wrote:From the gametime thread:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:A few quick observations from the 1st half...

JC? Damn son... Kelly had a step and JC under-threw another deep pass. That boy better step it up... quickly.

He has no touch on that deep ball, no feel for it!

Not only that but he's late getting rid of the ball. On that first deep ball to Kelly he should've thrown the ball sooner.

That's not really it. Kelly was going right to left, and JC threw it straight down field. Kelly had to adjust his route to try to get to the deeper (than his original trajectory) thrown pass. If JC just leads him on his route, he catches that ball with a couple of steps on the defender, and can then turn upfield for extra yards. JC has no touch (or accuracy) on his deep ball.

That's exactly right, Deadskins. It was a poorly thrown ball, but there were some other factors. I don't believe JC held the ball too long, he needed to give Kelly time to run the route. In a post game interview, JC said he tried to put some air under the ball so Kelly could run under it, but didn't realize Kelly's speed to get past the defenders. Kelly did show very good speed on that play, which is very promising. Nevertheless, JC did under-throw the ball and didn't lead him enough to the left. I think that's correctable. JC has been hitting long balls in camp, and many to Kelly, so I believe he'll start to hit some of those in games... the most important time to do it, of course.

But the bottom line is that JC needs to play better. I think he's the type that needs some momentum to get going and we saw slow starts from him last year. But I'm with Irn-Bru on this one. We've been grooming him and Zorn has put all his emphasis on JC. JC is an average QB and I think we all realize that. But he's our field general for now and we're going into battle with him at the helm this year. Therefore, if we're going into battle with him, I've got to rally behind him at this point. We may need to upgrade the position down the road, but for now, he's our guy. I still don't think he's as bad as some suggest, but he obviously needs to improve... and there's quite a bit of room for improvement. Last night was not a good showing for the kid.

Orakpo is the real deal. He's so impressive. I still can't believe he fell to us in the draft. I think he's going to be good for us for a long time.

Jarmon looks pretty good too. And he's only been around for a few weeks. I believe the FO made another great pick, and Jarmon is going to be a staple on that d-line for the future. The great thing is that we got him a year early and he'll have time to learn under solid vets like Daniels, Carter and Wynn.

The o-line play was encouraging. All units played very well. Yes, it's only one game, but I feel a little relief, since there's been so much concern and uncertainty. Even our depth guys played well, and that's a good sign.

Our d-line played decent as well. I think we have some good depth there. Our back-up secondary played well too. Doughty looks good, Moore is very quick and a big hitter and Tryon and Barnes played better. Chris Wilson looks unstoppable. I know he was playing against back-ups, but his speed and athleticism are still impressive.

Betts. I think he could have scored on that opening drive if he had just followed Sellers. But he tried to dance to the outside and got stuffed. I would've liked to have seen a bit more aggressive playing there, but Zorn said that was his mistake and thought they could pound it in. I'd like to see more passing in the red zone this coming year. Hopefully Zorn will get more aggressive. He's been conservative, even going back to the end of last season. I know it's vanilla right now in preseason, but I'm still hoping Zorn opens it up come the regular season.

But Betts has been getting a lot of love in camp, and once again, the coaches have been impressed with him. They've said Betts is going to get more plays and will become the primary back on 3rd downs. I'm not sure how I feel about that. We'll see though.

Haven't posted in a long while (home was destroyed by a fire in April). But anyway ..

My negative impressions of JC dating back to mid 2007 are becoming so painfully obvious now that it's hard for even Campbell die-hards to ignore. But management (FO and Coaching staff) are to blame for this ... not Campbell. They've set the bar so low, he'd have to be a limbo expert to miss it.

Bright spots on offense: MK, MM, O-Line and the ability to run against the Steelers 1st team. Mason was impressive again and should make this team (he won't, but he should). Kelly's durability is suspect, which is yet another example of poor FO decisions. Thomas under achieves, and Kelly has bad wheels .. 2 potential busts for this pathetic FO group.

Offense problems: Campbell, Thomas, and Zorn. Campbell's continuing struggles with the basics; Thomas's routine mistakes for a 2nd year player, and Zorn's play calling and the general lack of execution on offense is becoming painful to watch. I wouldn't be so critical of Zorn if it weren't for his insistence on praising Campbell's poor play as some sort of real progress. I don't expect him to publicly call out his QB, but to put perfume on this less than acceptable production is really the main issue on offense, and I see no light at the end of this dark tunnel.

Defense Bright spots: Orakpo, the depth on the D-line, Hall.

Defense concerns: they just got chewed up by Batch in the air. Run defense was sound but they're giving up long drives, and the deep middle of the defense seems to be extremely exploitable.

Overall impressions: Having Orakpo in coverage on passing downs is idiotic (IMHO). Zorn's brilliant idea of Betts being the 3rd down back this year (taking our best offensive weapon off the field on critical 3rd downs) is mind boggling, and very disturbing. How bout we get someone who can complete a couple of passes now and then if you want to keep Portis fresh?

Trying to force situations (Campbell as the undisputed starter, and Devin Thomas as the #2 receiver) clearly shows to me that this staff is more interested in being "right" about initial projections than they are being successful and playing the best players.

Brennan's poor play suggests to me he's pressing, trying to out do his performance last year to move up on the depth chart. He's likely to move himself out entirely, given this coaching staff's inability to make sound decisions and judge talent on offense.

Next week, Campbell should play an entire half, and if he fails to perform, the keys should be taken away, period. He's had more than enough time to show something. No sense in tossing another season down the crapper trying to make this failed project work. If necessary, play QB by committee and let someone actually win the job. If nobody steps up, then clean house.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Am I the only one that thinks that the starting qb job should be opened up? Collins looks much better than JC to me?

I agree with you on this man. JC should not be guaranteed the starting job, he has done NOTHING to earn this job. I'm tired of all the excuses for him the bottom line is that he has to get the job done and he has done nothing. You would have thought that what he went through this off season it would have lit a fire in his butt, but it's still the same JC. I don't blame the Redskins at all for what they tried to do in the off season.