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Is this JC's last year as a Redskin?
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 7:48 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
I still think he should be our starter this year. Starting TC makes zero sense, he's a backup, a stop gap. And our other choices seem in no way to be ready to start in the NFL, turning to them is tossing the season and with our D there is no reason to do that.
I do think JC "could" pull it out and I hope he pulls it out. I think all the systems and coaching changes were factors. I think he played well enough last year and every year to have hope but not well enough to reach any long term conclusion. But I'm tired of making excuses for him not being an actually consistently good quarterback.
I applaud management for exploring options and not pulling the trigger because the prices were too high. But this is it, it's time Jason. No more excuses. But I have to vote yes based on the past, he isn't going to make it. And I think the only real chance he has is to clearly, certainly understand that it's in his hands and he has to deliver. He has to play better.
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:19 pm
by Gibbs4Life
And our other choices seem in no way to be ready to start in the NFL
Of course your referring to brennan, I think colt w the first team would surprise u in a good way
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:16 pm
by Champsturf
Gibbs4Life wrote:And our other choices seem in no way to be ready to start in the NFL
Of course your referring to brennan, I think colt w the first team would surprise u in a good way
I agree with Kazoo. I don't think Colt is ready yet, but I would actually give him the nod after 3 weeks if Campbell can't seem to get it together. I also think that Colt would fair much better with the first team which is why I would like to see a preseason game with him in there with them. He's got that fire the a QB needs, imho, and Jason is just too even keel. Yes, nothing seems to rattle him(Campbell), nor does anything seem to fire him up.
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:22 pm
by VetSkinsFan
It's really tough for me to judge at this point. I hope that he makes leaps and bounds, and articles support that, but I am not seeing it in play this year or last. I wish him the best, but I think he's a vertical QB and not a WCO kinda guy. I wish him well nonetheless and I hope the success is in burgundy and gold!
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:45 pm
by Champsturf
VetSkinsFan wrote:It's really tough for me to judge at this point. I hope that he makes leaps and bounds, and articles support that, but I am not seeing it in play this year or last. I wish him the best, but I think he's a vertical QB and not a WCO kinda guy. I wish him well nonetheless and I hope the success is in burgundy and gold!
For somebody to be a vertical QB, shouldn't he be able to hit his go route in stride? I just don't think he's got it in him to be anywhere close to an elite NFL QB.
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:10 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
Gibbs4Life wrote:And our other choices seem in no way to be ready to start in the NFL
Of course your referring to brennan, I think colt w the first team would surprise u in a good way
Or Chase Daniel. I actually like him better then Colt as an NFL QB. Though I don't see either this year or probably next year as anything but clip board easels. I see Colt as a guy who'd tear up the Arena league (if it still existed) but suck in the NFL. Just a feeling. If I turn out to be wrong, I will revel in your being right and gladly give you the credit for the call. If we go to the playoffs with Colt feel free to come back to this and ask for a Mea Culpa and you'll receive a happy one. But be warned, the backers of third string quarterbacks are many and the ones who end up being proven correct are few indeed.
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 10:41 pm
by SKINFAN
a bit of a bummer, I watched the pre season game replay, man, JC looks the same as he did the last 6 games or last year. Slow release, slow read and everything. ZI hope he turns it around
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:33 pm
by aswas71788
I think this is Campbells last year with the Redskins whether he does great or not. If not, the Redskns will not renew his contract. If he does great, I think he will go somewhere else. I think he has handled to off-season Cutler and Sanchez thing better than most, and definitely much better than I would have. He has to have had some hurt feelings out of it and if any other team bid for him I suspect he will go there.
Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:55 pm
by Champsturf
aswas71788 wrote:I think this is Campbells last year with the Redskins whether he does great or not. If not, the Redskns will not renew his contract. If he does great, I think he will go somewhere else. I think he has handled to off-season Cutler and Sanchez thing better than most, and definitely much better than I would have. He has to have had some hurt feelings out of it and if any other team bid for him I suspect he will go there.
lol...He will HAVE to do VERY well to even go to another team...he just isn't very good for being in the league for as long as he has. People talk about Flacco and maybe being a one year wonder...Campbell hasn't even had that kind of one year...it's all about wins.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:31 am
by DEHog
While I'm rooting hard for Jason I don't see him here next year. The only way he is here next year is withthe Franchise Tag. As of this moment I don't think we have a starting NFL QB on our roster.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:17 am
by SkinsFreak
Hold on....
There's a HUGE factor here that most everyone is overlooking, an incredibly relevant variable that I'm quite sure the Skins are well aware of and possibly the reason why Campbell has not yet been extended a contract yet.
That factor is the prospect of the NFL playing the 2010 season without a salary cap, triggered by the owners' decision to opt out of its collective bargaining agreement two years early. The league has rules and conditions is place if an uncapped year is to come to fruition.
One such condition is that players would need six NFL seasons to be eligible for free agency, rather than four. If we go into an uncapped year, Jason Campbell WILL NOT become an unrestricted free agent next year and the Redskins will retain full rights to him.
Therefore, if another team wanted Campbell, they'd have to provide the Redskins compensation. If the Skins wanted to keep Campbell, as a starter or a back-up, they'd have him for another year before they'd have to extend him a new contract or let him hit the market as an unrestricted free agent after the 2010 season.
I believe this was a partial factor in the Skins decision to not extend Campbell a contract at this point. They know they have time and will want to see how he performs in Zorn's system for a second year before they do anything. We all know they took a look at Cutler and Sanchez, as they should have, but they obviously came to the conclusion that staying with Campbell for now was the most economical and strategic course of action.
So to get back to the thread question, I do believe Campbell will remain a Redskin for the 2010 season. He may or may not be the starter in 2010, but the team has options, as Campbell can't just leave and sign with a new team on his own.
Here's the potential scenarios. If Campbell plays great, the team can either give him a new contract reflective of a franchise QB or trade him to another team for high compensation. That's if he plays great. If Campbell plays poorly, the team can still go after another QB and keep Campbell as a back-up, or even the starter if they need time to get a rookie QB, for example, up to speed. He won't become a free agent next year and therefore the team can keep him as a back-up at a similar rate he's at now, then let him hit free agency after the 2010 season.
So I believe the Skins are in a good position right now regarding Campbell. Of course this is all contingent on an uncapped year, but at this point in time, most experts don't believe a new collective bargaining agreement will be delivered in time to prevent an uncapped year.
I'm not sure many fans are familiar with the leagues conditions for an uncapped year.
Once upon a time, conventional wisdom held that NFL owners wanted no part of an uncapped year because they were fearful that a few rich and aggressive owners (read Jerry Jones and Daniel Snyder) would go all George Steinbrenner on them and snap up a boatload of free agents. Such a move would spoil the NFL's unique competitive balance that has so-called small market teams prospering right alongside everyone else.
But in reality, there were so many new parameters built into the CBA's rules for an uncapped season that owners will have anything but free rein to make a killing for their teams in free agency. And I don't think the players really grasp those realities yet anywhere near as well as NFL owners and club executives do.
For starters, once the salary cap disappears, players can't be free agents until they've completed six NFL seasons, rather than four. That means there will be fewer quality young players in the 2010 free-agent pool, and less talent for any spend-happy teams to accumulate.
"That's huge, the six seasons before free agency,'' one of the general managers told me. "But it's also a bit of a funky spot to be in because, let's face it, there are going to be some unhappy players who thought they were about to get to free agency. You've got a guy who just finished his fourth season, but now he's not coming up [for free agency]. That's why I keep saying to some of my agent friends, 'Man, this is real. Don't think this will never happen or that it's going to go away and be fine. You've got to be right about this.' ''
In addition, teams in 2010 would own an extra transition tag, meaning a franchise could use both a franchise tag and a transition tag on two of its own free agents (or two transition tags) in the same season, as opposed to the one or another they get to designate now. Again, that stipulation should serve to limit the quality of the free agents who actually reach the open free agent market.
"The pool of players in free agency shrinks dramatically in the uncapped year,'' another general manager said. "That means the quality of available players is going to be affected, and the ones who actually reach free agency, how good are they really?" Most teams have gotten very good at re-signing their own best players any way. So that uncapped year, with all the contingencies, all the parameters that are in it, those things are real and they're going to keep the rich from getting richer.
And there's more. In the uncapped season of 2010, the league would have a rule called the top eight plan, in which the eight teams that reached the divisional round playoffs in 2009 would have their activity in free agency limited. The NFL's final four teams wouldn't be able to sign an unrestricted free agent until they had lost one of their own. The other four teams among the final eight to be eliminated in 2009 would have some salary restrictions on the free agents they signed, which would serve to keep them from being able to afford any elite free agents.
When you factor in rules that took effect this year once the owners opted out of current CBA last May, they too seem to tilt heavily in favor of the owners, rather than reaping a potential bonanza for players who are no longer working under the salary cap system. This season, a player's base salary can't increase more than 30 percent from one year to the next, which restricts a team's ability to award a contract that includes a huge 2009 raise in anticipation of no salary cap in 2010.
No wonder team owners aren't as worried about life in a cap-less NFL as many assume. When you throw in the fact that there will be no league salary minimum (or salary floor) that teams must spend on players in 2010, some clubs will undoubtedly spend less than they have before.
More
here.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:49 am
by screwgun
SKINFAN wrote:a bit of a bummer, I watched the pre season game replay, man, JC looks the same as he did the last 6 games or last year. Slow release, slow read and everything. ZI hope he turns it around
I couldn't agree more. 0 points and can't drive the first team past the 30 yard line pretty much says it all, doesn't it ???
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 11:37 am
by SkinsFreak
screwgun wrote:SKINFAN wrote:a bit of a bummer, I watched the pre season game replay, man, JC looks the same as he did the last 6 games or last year. Slow release, slow read and everything. ZI hope he turns it around
I couldn't agree more. 0 points and can't drive the first team past the 30 yard line pretty much says it all, doesn't it ???
I couldn't
disagree more.
While there's caution in the wind regarding the optimism of JC's future success, this was the first preseason game in which they didn't game plan for, didn't play some of their starters and ran a very vanilla offense with basic and simple plays. I'm not sure why some fail to recognize this every year in preseason. Have you seen the highlights from other games? Very few QB's "lit it up" in their 1st preseason game.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:11 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
aswas71788 wrote:I think he has handled to off-season Cutler and Sanchez thing better than most, and definitely much better than I would have. He has to have had some hurt feelings out of it and if any other team bid for him I suspect he will go there.
Do you seriously think that JC has played well enough to sob like a little girl that we were mean by exploring options for the position he was overall very mediocre at playing? If that's the case, he has zero chance of succeeding in the uber competitive NFL. If he played better then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we need to tell him he's The Man and we'd never consider anyone else anyway when he spent so much time last year sucking? Seriously?
Again I am glad we didn't pull the trigger because the prices were too high (and Cutler IS a little girl, you're just guessing JC is) and I want JC to win the job and prove me wrong. But it's time for the guy to play better. If that happens the cash will be there and I think he'll stay. But it's up to him now and making MORE excuses for a guy who spent so much time sucking last year isn't going to help anyone, including JC.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:24 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
SkinsFreak wrote:Hold on....
There's a HUGE factor here that most everyone is overlooking, an incredibly relevant variable that I'm quite sure the Skins are well aware of and possibly the reason why Campbell has not yet been extended a contract yet.
That factor is the prospect of the NFL playing the 2010 season without a salary cap...
I think you make a lot of good points Freak, but regardless I don't think they would be able today to agree to a deal. What possible number could both sides agree to? Danny's going to go low based on his performance so far and not wanting to prevent the team from getting another QB because of the cap and and JC's going to go high based on that he is the starter and he keeps showing just enough potential to possibly remain so.
Given the situation, it totally makes sense that they would just continue to play out the contract until we finally get a yes or no on JC and not the maybe we still keep getting.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 1:48 pm
by frankcal20
KazooSkinsFan wrote:SkinsFreak wrote:Hold on....
There's a HUGE factor here that most everyone is overlooking, an incredibly relevant variable that I'm quite sure the Skins are well aware of and possibly the reason why Campbell has not yet been extended a contract yet.
That factor is the prospect of the NFL playing the 2010 season without a salary cap...
I think you make a lot of good points Freak, but regardless I don't think they would be able today to agree to a deal. What possible number could both sides agree to? Danny's going to go low based on his performance so far and not wanting to prevent the team from getting another QB because of the cap and and JC's going to go high based on that he is the starter and he keeps showing just enough potential to possibly remain so.
Given the situation, it totally makes sense that they would just continue to play out the contract until we finally get a yes or no on JC and not the maybe we still keep getting.
I think hit would be smart of Wash. to extend a contract and dumb for Campbell to accept. I'm sure JC would not accept a contract because based off his 16 games of performance, he would be playing for little to no money. "IF" he has a good year, then that changes everything.
JC's success 100% depends on the offensive lines ability to stay healthy. There are quite a few factors that have affected JC's ability to be successful in the NFL. We all know about the lack of continuity in the coaching staff. Also, this is his 2nd year under this new system. And, as mentioned above, lack of heath at key offensive line positions have killed him. He did not get sacked as much as Pat. Ramsey but he did have to run for his life a lot. Now that makes it very difficult for any QB to get his feet set and make ACCURATE throws - which is something that has been an issue with.
Now I do want to point this out. Some of you are the worst critic's. Jason played two series and to blame him for the lack of success of those two series is just crazy. Sure, the pass to that wide open receiver could have been better. But go back and look at the replay. I think the pass was pretty good because he was hit on that play and he made that pass with a defender bringing him down. Now the WR took 100% of the blame because he mistimed his jump for the ball. He said he was coming down and tried to make the catch and it just hit off his fingertips.
So, based off one game, I am not going to say that JC is going to stink it up or he MUST step it up. What we need is him to go into every game confident, knowing the game plan and executing it. He also needs everyone else to do their part. And if guys get hurt, their backups come in and do what they are supposed to do. If they do, we will have a lot of success.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:04 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
frankcal20 wrote:There are quite a few factors that have affected JC's ability to be successful in the NFL
I agree with you on this Frank. As for me, I did not watch the pre-season game and my opinion had nothing to do with it. I defended him all last year against the silliness that advocated TC or Colt. I still think he should start.
But you do have to evaluate players and this is a fan board. We may not be decision makers but we're going to do it anyway. I felt as the season went on he for whatever reason missed too many open receivers, held the ball too long and his refusal to loft deep balls but continually miss the receiver by a short distance still leaving him with no chance to catch it because of the way it was thrown got tiresome. At some point to be an NFL QB he has to step up and make some throws rather then leaving it to someone to make an excuse why he missed it. I don't blame him for the throws while he was running for his life. But he kept making the same mistakes.
If you want to focus on his biggest weakness you have to chose between slow to make decisions and the deep throw. Seriously, how can a guy with the arm he has have such a horrible ability to complete the deep throw? JC LOFT the BALL!!!! Loft it!!! Name one QB who's ever made consistent deep balls who threw 50 yard passes in a straight line.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:14 pm
by frankcal20
He admitted that with the volume of the playbook, he only knew his #1 and 2 options last year and then went to the checkdown. With the health of the line, he was pressured a lot last year. You also have to keep in mind that if you do not know the playbook, things are not going to run as quickly as he's claimed do this year. He said that his biggest issue in camp this year is knowing all the routes and coming out of Saunder's system, he needs to understand that in the WCO, you don't always throw to spots. He said on one pass, the receiver should have been at a location and after his one and two were not available, he just threw in the direction of the three and he was no where around there. I'm not making excuses for him. But I do think that we are going to be surprised at what he can do this year. I think that he will make plays for us.
I have had the pleasure to watch a few of his plays at LSU. What I would really like to see him do more of this year is run the ball. I don't want him to put himself in the crosshairs for injury but I think he shows enough mobility to make things happen and put us in a better position on 3rd down. But he MUST learn to slide. That is actually the worst part of his game.
But let me say this, he must show a lot of improvement this year. I think he will. But if he doesn't, then he along with everyone else knows that the Skins are going to have to make some choices.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:18 pm
by Deadskins
frankcal20 wrote:I have had the pleasure to watch a few of his plays at LSU.
He went to Auburn.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:26 pm
by frankcal20
....sorry thats what I meant. I watched them play LSU on Thursday or Friday on CBS College Sports.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:33 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
frankcal20 wrote:But let me say this, he must show a lot of improvement this year. I think he will. But if he doesn't, then he along with everyone else knows that the Skins are going to have to make some choices.
QFT. And we're on the same side for sure rooting what will happen.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:35 pm
by frankcal20
"QFT???"
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:39 pm
by aswas71788
KazooSkinsFan wrote:aswas71788 wrote:I think he has handled to off-season Cutler and Sanchez thing better than most, and definitely much better than I would have. He has to have had some hurt feelings out of it and if any other team bid for him I suspect he will go there.
Do you seriously think that JC has played well enough to sob like a little girl that we were mean by exploring options for the position he was overall very mediocre at playing? If that's the case, he has zero chance of succeeding in the uber competitive NFL. If he played better then we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we need to tell him he's The Man and we'd never consider anyone else anyway when he spent so much time last year sucking? Seriously?
Again I am glad we didn't pull the trigger because the prices were too high (and Cutler IS a little girl, you're just guessing JC is) and I want JC to win the job and prove me wrong. But it's time for the guy to play better. If that happens the cash will be there and I think he'll stay. But it's up to him now and making MORE excuses for a guy who spent so much time sucking last year isn't going to help anyone, including JC.
I agree with your second paragraph completely but do not understand where you are coming from in the first. I did not say he was sobbing. I just said that here has to be some hurt feelings on his part for the Redskins lack of trust in him. That is a normal reaction for anyone, you, me, anyone when we feel unwanted as the Redskins demonstrated. Whether they were looking for a better option, as they should, or not the idea projected is that Campbell has not filled the bill, which he hasn't.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:41 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
frankcal20 wrote:"QFT???"
Quoted For Truth. It means I agree with you.
Posted: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:44 pm
by DEHog
SkinsFreak wrote:screwgun wrote:SKINFAN wrote:a bit of a bummer, I watched the pre season game replay, man, JC looks the same as he did the last 6 games or last year. Slow release, slow read and everything. ZI hope he turns it around
I couldn't agree more. 0 points and can't drive the first team past the 30 yard line pretty much says it all, doesn't it ???
I couldn't
disagree more.
While there's caution in the wind regarding the optimism of JC's future success, this was the first preseason game in which they didn't game plan for, didn't play some of their starters and ran a very vanilla offense with basic and simple plays. I'm not sure why some fail to recognize this every year in preseason. Have you seen the highlights from other games? Very few QB's "lit it up" in their 1st preseason game.
McNabb and Brady did...and played well into the second quarter I just don't get why JC doesn't play more he hasn't "earned" playing just two series. I don't want to hear the "you can't let him play behind the second unit" arguemen." In most cases they are going up against the other team second unit and he will have (and has ) to play behind them in the event of an injury. I just don't get why Zorn didn't play him and the WR's more???