The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

None of us want to act out of desperation like we did last year with the Jason Taylor deal, but I sincerely hope the Redskins are looking hard at any trade options for the offensive line situation. It's time. If we wait until the final weeks of pre-season it will be weeks into the regular season before any OL chemistry develops. We have a little depth at a few postions, I hate to let a good Redskin go, but we need to identify what Redskin is tradeable and make a deal for a true starting lineman.

We can't trade an average player for a great player. We have to offer up one of our better players to have a chance of landing a quality lineman. The player we trade has to have a contract that another team can handle as well.

Laron Landry. Ladell Betts. Andre Carter. Santana Moss. Clinton Portis.

In addition to the one starting lineman we should probably pick up Runyan and Kendall and release Williams and ??

I guess this is just a bunch of crazy rambling, but with the line we have, Campbell will fail, which means Zorn fails, which means we start over next year with a rookie quarterback and a new coach. Maybe that's the answer, but it's just wrong not to give Zorn and Campbell a legitimate chance to succeed.

Thoughts?

I don't think anyone would dispute the weak offensive line and there is not a QB in the NFL that can be successfull without protection. I agree that we have to offer up a quality player to get one but disagree that Portis is one of them. I foresee him more time on the bench than playtime due to injuries. He's great when he's healthy but he didn't get any younger since last year.

There are a few guys out there on the market that are available. But, they want bigger contracts than are being offered. Levi Jones (Left Tackle) can be moved to right and Jon Runyen can come in too. Not sure if he will play for us but he's available. With cut days coming up in a few weeks, there is no reason to jump the ship quite yet and give up players. I don't think the Redskins will ever trade CP. Betts maybe but another team isn't going to give a starter for Betts. Landry is a stalemate on our Defense and Carter is the closest thing to a proven D End we have on our team. Now, why would we even talk about Moss? He's the only production we've had in the WR corps? If we were to trade him or CP, then Campbell is sure to fail. He won't have anyone to hand off too or pass to. No one else has proven themselves. Betts had a few good games but since then has shown that ball security and health are a bit of a concern. I like him - as a backup.

Let's just take a wait and see approach. Word on the street is most of the guys were out there today working out and getting ready for Thursday.

I'm with you "gregory smith" about time for OL chemistry to work and think something should be done now. And someone in Denver agrees with me about Portis and his injuries or he would still be playing there. At this point in his career I don't think any other team would pick him up as their primary rusher. I think Betts would be decent with some playing time.

frankcal20 wrote:There are a few guys out there on the market that are available. But, they want bigger contracts than are being offered. Levi Jones (Left Tackle) can be moved to right and Jon Runyen can come in too. Not sure if he will play for us but he's available. With cut days coming up in a few weeks, there is no reason to jump the ship quite yet and give up players. I don't think the Redskins will ever trade CP. Betts maybe but another team isn't going to give a starter for Betts. Landry is a stalemate on our Defense and Carter is the closest thing to a proven D End we have on our team. Now, why would we even talk about Moss? He's the only production we've had in the WR corps? If we were to trade him or CP, then Campbell is sure to fail. He won't have anyone to hand off too or pass to. No one else has proven themselves. Betts had a few good games but since then has shown that ball security and health are a bit of a concern. I like him - as a backup.

Let's just take a wait and see approach. Word on the street is most of the guys were out there today working out and getting ready for Thursday.

I agree, Frank. While there is legitimate concern with our o-line, I'm not sure we're in the dire phase to warrant trading someone right now. None of the injuries are serious or season ending. Our current injuries are dings, bumps and bruises common from the rigors of training camp.

And like you said, with Runyan and Jones sitting out there and cuts coming, there's still time if we reach DEFCON 1.

All teams are experiencing some level of the injury bug right now. The Eagles, for example, have sidelined three of their starting five offensive linemen and RT Shawn Andrews still hasn't practiced because of a back injury. DeSean Jackson was carried off the field with a hyperextended knee. Andy Reid finally disclosed that rookie TE Cornelius Ingram suffered a torn ACL and is gone for the season. Ingram was impressive in offseason workouts, and the Eagles had high expectations for him. This in the wake of losing their starting MLB Staurt Bradley also from a torn ACL.

It seems like the Skins are getting crushed with injuries right now, but I think it merely seems that way since we follow them so closely. If you look around the entire landscape of the NFL, every team is experiencing injuries... and many of them are far worse than the Redskins.

The o-line concerns are legit, but let's see how these guys rebound from these minor injuries. It's not such a bad thing that our o-line is going up against one of the best defenses and d-lines in the league.

Guys it's not just injuries for me. I'm not convinced the players we have can do the job. Randy Thomas may never be full strength again. Stephon Heyer should probably be a backup. Rinehart may or may not develop. Mike Williams can't play any longer. Kendell and Runyan might get you to next years draft, but if there is a player available via trade we should go for it. Being patient for Thomas, Williams, and Heyer scares the heck out of me. I can't imagine what Campbell must feel.

Longtime listener, first time caller.

We may have a bad O line, and a mediocre offense but I wouldnt trade a good defensive player.

Right now we have the potential for a dominating soul crushing defense, mixed with a mediocre offense. To get quality O line help we would need to trade a good player.

Trading a good defensive player would downgrade us from a soul crushing defense to a great one, and upgrade us from a mediocre offense to a good one. Not a good exchange IMO.

It seems the best path to success is to keep our soul crushing (Baltimore Ravens) defense, and suffer with the mediocre (Trent Dilfer) offense.

Welcome to the site Newbie.

cowboys-suck wrote:I'm with you "gregory smith" about time for OL chemistry to work and think something should be done now. And someone in Denver agrees with me about Portis and his injuries or he would still be playing there. At this point in his career I don't think any other team would pick him up as their primary rusher. I think Betts would be decent with some playing time.

The Portis deal had much more to do with the fact that Denver got such a ridiculously lopsided deal that they couldn't say no. Elite CB are much harder to find than the third best RB in your division (which CP was at that time), then you get the sucker to throw in a very high 2nd round pick and you just can't pass that up!

But back on subject. I think they should keep their eye open to all way to better the team. Our OL was no where near as bad as people make it out to be. Heck they were better than the Steelers and Cardinals OL and both of those teams did OK! But I must say, they way Orakpo is abusing Samuals in camp scares me. I just hope our OL hasn't all fallen off the same cliff at the same time. The odds of that happening are slim, so lets hope our pass rush is just that improved.

You can't trade your most important player on O to get help at OL. Most would argue that that guy is CP or Samuals, but I would argue it is Moss. Whenever Moss is 100% healthy defenses have to back off. They can't stack 8 or 9 in the box to stop CP and they can't blitz every down. Moss wasn't healthy for the rest of the season after the Detroit game when he pulled his hammy. Yes, he played, but he wasn't anywhere near 100% and the Defenses played the Skins like they no longer had a deep threat. Which they did and didn't. Tana could no longer punk DBs and Campbell NEVER looked at D Thomas, so they effectively had no deep threat.

[quote="gregory smith"]None of us want to act out of desperation like we did last year with the Jason Taylor deal, but I sincerely hope the Redskins are looking hard at any trade options for the offensive line situation. It's time. If we wait until the final weeks of pre-season it will be weeks into the regular season before any OL chemistry develops. We have a little depth at a few postions, I hate to let a good Redskin go, but we need to identify what Redskin is tradeable and make a deal for a true starting lineman.

We can't trade an average player for a great player. We have to offer up one of our better players to have a chance of landing a quality lineman. The player we trade has to have a contract that another team can handle as well.

Laron Landry. Ladell Betts. Andre Carter. Santana Moss. Clinton Portis.

In addition to the one starting lineman we should probably pick up Runyan and Kendall and release Williams and ??

I guess this is just a bunch of crazy rambling, but with the line we have, Campbell will fail, which means Zorn fails, which means we start over next year with a rookie quarterback and a new coach. Maybe that's the answer, but it's just wrong not to give Zorn and Campbell a legitimate chance to succeed.

Thoughts? DUDE are you on crack????????? Laron Landry?

skinsfan#33 wrote:

cowboys-suck wrote:I'm with you "gregory smith" about time for OL chemistry to work and think something should be done now. And someone in Denver agrees with me about Portis and his injuries or he would still be playing there. At this point in his career I don't think any other team would pick him up as their primary rusher. I think Betts would be decent with some playing time.

The Portis deal had much more to do with the fact that Denver got such a ridiculously lopsided deal that they couldn't say no. Elite CB are much harder to find than the third best RB in your division (which CP was at that time), then you get the sucker to throw in a very high 2nd round pick and you just can't pass that up!

But back on subject. I think they should keep their eye open to all way to better the team. Our OL was no where near as bad as people make it out to be. Heck they were better than the Steelers and Cardinals OL and both of those teams did OK! But I must say, they way Orakpo is abusing Samuals in camp scares me. I just hope our OL hasn't all fallen off the same cliff at the same time. The odds of that happening are slim, so lets hope our pass rush is just that improved.

You can't trade your most important player on O to get help at OL. Most would argue that that guy is CP or Samuals, but I would argue it is Moss. Whenever Moss is 100% healthy defenses have to back off. They can't stack 8 or 9 in the box to stop CP and they can't blitz every down. Moss wasn't healthy for the rest of the season after the Detroit game when he pulled his hammy. Yes, he played, but he wasn't anywhere near 100% and the Defenses played the Skins like they no longer had a deep threat. Which they did and didn't. Tana could no longer punk DBs and Campbell NEVER looked at D Thomas, so they effectively had no deep threat.

that's right, a lopsided deal. Portis was injured and Denver knew he would never be 100% again. CP has proved they were right.

There is always the option of trading future draft picks. I know how everyone loves it when the team does that. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not the answer. Go with what we have this year, and then upgrade the OL next year.

Deadskins wrote:There is always the option of trading future draft picks. I know how everyone loves it when the team does that. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is not the answer. Go with what we have this year, and then upgrade the OL next year.

I think future picks would be the only way but I don't see any of that happening. Like it or not, I think we are stuck with an OL that is average even if they are 100%. JC will have to put on his running shoes.

anyone think Chase Daniel will see some play time? I think he will and quite frankly, I'd love to see what he can do. He had a record filled college career.

gregory smith wrote:We can't trade an average player for a great player. We have to offer up one of our better players to have a chance of landing a quality lineman. The player we trade has to have a contract that another team can handle as well.

Laron Landry. Ladell Betts. Andre Carter. Santana Moss. Clinton Portis.

Ahhh HELL NO ON LARON LANDRY!! Everyone else is expendable to me

No way is Moss expendable.

cowboys-suck wrote:anyone think Chase Daniel will see some play time? I think he will and quite frankly, I'd love to see what he can do. He had a record filled college career.

In pre-season, maybe. No way does he see the field this regular season. Colt also had a record setting college career, and is a year further developed than Chase. Only if all three (JC, TC, and CB) go down would we ever see Chase, and probably not even then.

Offensive Lines take awhile to gel. It isn't like DL where agression, speed and athletic ability shows well from the start. We're adding Dockery back after a few years, 3 of the others have played very well for us for a few years. Heyer started last year as our RT until he got hurt... I agree with Bugel, let's NOT panic... and definetly let's not trade anyone away as all you get is a castoff. Keep our picks and take a Tackle with the 1st rounder, guard with the 2nd rounder and center with the 4th rounder.

How I see our line this year -- with some -- glass is half full thinking:

LT -- Samuels is a Pro-Bowler and in great shape this year.
LG -- Dockery will be fine, and played pretty well next to Sameuls the first stint with us. Also in good shape.
C -- Rabach is a good center. Not a huge guy but a smart signal caller who plays hurt.
RG -- Thomas, who has injury issues so if he can't play, Bridges who has started a bunch of games. I think Bridges has a nasty streak too.
RT -- Heyer will be fine with time.

As subs we have...
Reinhart for LG
Will Montgomery for Center
Williams as Heyer's backup
Devin Clark

If our starters stay healthy and are given time to gel, we'll be fine. They could be a pretty good line actually.

fredp45 wrote:Offensive Lines take awhile to gel. It isn't like DL where agression, speed and athletic ability shows well from the start. We're adding Dockery back after a few years, 3 of the others have played very well for us for a few years. Heyer started last year as our RT until he got hurt... I agree with Bugel, let's NOT panic... and definetly let's not trade anyone away as all you get is a castoff. Keep our picks and take a Tackle with the 1st rounder, guard with the 2nd rounder and center with the 4th rounder.

How I see our line this year -- with some -- glass is half full thinking:

LT -- Samuels is a Pro-Bowler and in great shape this year.
LG -- Dockery will be fine, and played pretty well next to Sameuls the first stint with us. Also in good shape.
C -- Rabach is a good center. Not a huge guy but a smart signal caller who plays hurt.
RG -- Thomas, who has injury issues so if he can't play, Bridges who has started a bunch of games. I think Bridges has a nasty streak too.
RT -- Heyer will be fine with time.

As subs we have...
Reinhart for LG
Will Montgomery for Center
Williams as Heyer's backup
Devin Clark

If our starters stay healthy and are given time to gel, we'll be fine. They could be a pretty good line actually.

Agree with all of that.

I think they should just roll with the O-line we have and worry about fixing any problems with next years draft. Hey maybe JC has developed a quicker release and will be more comfortable in this west coast offense. We need a Wes Welker type reciever that JC can go to quickly off the snap.
More production out ey would be great this year too. I'd love to see him get 1000 yds and 9 or 10 tds this year. Only 1 td again just isn't gonna cut it.

Deadskins wrote:

cowboys-suck wrote:anyone think Chase Daniel will see some play time? I think he will and quite frankly, I'd love to see what he can do. He had a record filled college career.

In pre-season, maybe. No way does he see the field this regular season. Colt also had a record setting college career, and is a year further developed than Chase. Only if all three (JC, TC, and CB) go down would we ever see Chase, and probably not even then.

I don't know...I saw somewhere that he is expected to compete for playing time in his rookie year.

The O-line wil be adequate barring any injuries and we have a few back ups that can come in and play. I think we can get by with what we have with a little luck.

I don't believe that Zorn and JC necessarily are directly linked in assessing failure/success. If JC fails, I don't think that's a given to fire Zorn. It will weigh on him heavily, but it doesn't take a brain sugeon to see that the fast paced WCO isn't exactly a natural fit for JC. Remember, Colt is Zorn's first QB drafted, JC was a Gibbs leftover.

Chase Daniel won't get playing time unless we have a disaster. We might even see El in there before Daniel.

Trading a star to upgrade our O-line at this point of the season (or pre-season, however you like to categorize it) is ludicrous. We'll get taken to the cleaners on the deal b/c other teams know that we would be desperate to trade a star at this point. Trade Landry, CP, or Moss is insane at best IMO. JC needs Moss and CP to lean on, along with ey. Landry is, at this point, our center fielder and he's quick with some decent hands. He's still developing and he's got a HUGE upside.

fredp45 wrote:Offensive Lines take awhile to gel. It isn't like DL where agression, speed and athletic ability shows well from the start. We're adding Dockery back after a few years, 3 of the others have played very well for us for a few years. Heyer started last year as our RT until he got hurt... I agree with Bugel, let's NOT panic... and definetly let's not trade anyone away as all you get is a castoff. Keep our picks and take a Tackle with the 1st rounder, guard with the 2nd rounder and center with the 4th rounder.

How I see our line this year -- with some -- glass is half full thinking:

LT -- Samuels is a Pro-Bowler and in great shape this year.
LG -- Dockery will be fine, and played pretty well next to Sameuls the first stint with us. Also in good shape.
C -- Rabach is a good center. Not a huge guy but a smart signal caller who plays hurt.
RG -- Thomas, who has injury issues so if he can't play, Bridges who has started a bunch of games. I think Bridges has a nasty streak too.
RT -- Heyer will be fine with time.

As subs we have...
Reinhart for LG
Will Montgomery for Center
Williams as Heyer's backup
Devin Clark

If our starters stay healthy and are given time to gel, we'll be fine. They could be a pretty good line actually.

Yeah... I'm good with that. And remember, folks, the back-ups getting reps right now is hugely advantageous. Does any one remember when Justin Geisinger came in last year replace Samuels when he got hurt? Geisinger looked so lost it was pathetic. So while I'm hopeful our starters can stay healthy and find cohesion, I'm actually glad our back-ups are getting their all-important reps.

cowboys-suck wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

cowboys-suck wrote:anyone think Chase Daniel will see some play time? I think he will and quite frankly, I'd love to see what he can do. He had a record filled college career.

In pre-season, maybe. No way does he see the field this regular season. Colt also had a record setting college career, and is a year further developed than Chase. Only if all three (JC, TC, and CB) go down would we ever see Chase, and probably not even then.

I don't know...I saw somewhere that he is expected to compete for playing time in his rookie year.

Yeah, he will compete for playing time, on the practice squad.

fredp45 wrote:Offensive Lines take awhile to gel. It isn't like DL where agression, speed and athletic ability shows well from the start. We're adding Dockery back after a few years, 3 of the others have played very well for us for a few years. Heyer started last year as our RT until he got hurt... I agree with Bugel, let's NOT panic... and definetly let's not trade anyone away as all you get is a castoff. Keep our picks and take a Tackle with the 1st rounder, guard with the 2nd rounder and center with the 4th rounder.

How I see our line this year -- with some -- glass is half full thinking:

LT -- Samuels is a Pro-Bowler and in great shape this year.
LG -- Dockery will be fine, and played pretty well next to Sameuls the first stint with us. Also in good shape.
C -- Rabach is a good center. Not a huge guy but a smart signal caller who plays hurt.
RG -- Thomas, who has injury issues so if he can't play, Bridges who has started a bunch of games. I think Bridges has a nasty streak too.
RT -- Heyer will be fine with time.

As subs we have...
Reinhart for LG
Will Montgomery for Center
Williams as Heyer's backup
Devin Clark

If our starters stay healthy and are given time to gel, we'll be fine. They could be a pretty good line actually.

I agree with most of that. If Thomas c an't go, I think Rinehart will start at RG.