The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

http://blog.redskins.com/2009/06/11/stan-hixon-is-a-patient-man/#continued

Is there anything you wish you could've done differently with Devin and Malcolm last year, given the way things went?

Hixon: "The only thing I wish we could've done differently ... obviously if Malcolm hadn't gotten hurt, he could've played more. I think at times I wish that Devin could've gotten off to a better start, because I think by the end of the season, he was out on the field and he had some opportunities to catch some balls, but most of the balls went to Santana if there was an either/or situation. I wish he would've been given the opportunity to make more plays for us."

This paragraph stuck out to me and I don't like it. It's been clear to me that Jason keys in on Moss entirely too much. To be honest, it seems the Hixon has subtlety stated just that. It appears that Thomas has been open but just passed over and it's something that infuriates me on gamedays about Jason.

I picked up on that, too. I'm hoping with year 2 in Zorn's system, that will change. Everything I've read is that JC's more comfortable in his decision-making. It's lead or get out of the way time soon. Let's hope it's not the latter.

But it's also a huge blow to all the bullcrap certain fans spout about Devin. Here we have his position coach stating that Devin was giving 100% effort, and was wide the heck open but was just passed over.

From what I listened to at the redskins.com JC stated there are 130 pass plays more than last year. I no that the skins are trying alot of different widouts too.

Hmmm, where are all the Thomas detractors? Wilting in the face of facts? lol

Is there anything you wish you could've done differently with Devin and Malcolm last year, given the way things went?

Hixon: "The only thing I wish we could've done differently ... obviously if Malcolm hadn't gotten hurt, he could've played more. I think at times I wish that Devin could've gotten off to a better start, because I think by the end of the season, he was out on the field and he had some opportunities to catch some balls, but most of the balls went to Santana if there was an either/or situation. I wish he would've been given the opportunity to make more plays for us."

If Zorn said this, then yes it would detract from any slander of Devin Thomas. Unfortunately, as much as you all would like it to, a statement like this from a reciever's coach who himself bares the responsibility and to an extent is accountable for our rookie WR not producing in games, can come across as passing blame. Stan Hixon's remarks in no way change the facts.

Hmmm, where are all the Thomas detractors? Wilting in the face of facts? lol

Nope I'm right here, G4L doesn't Wilt, so here are the facts...

Fact #1. Devin Thomas failed the physical conditioning test to start 08'

Fact #2. Players, such as JC, and Jim Zorn this year have gone out of their way to mention how much more humble Devin is this time around, which is a way of saying last year he was cocky. Matt Terl and Larry Michael have echoed that sentiment, Larry called him "a different guy"

Fact #3. Santanna and Randle El both mentioned last year that while they could discuss football with Malcom , Devin was a guy that in their words kept to himself which I interpret as a you can't tell me nothin I'm Devin Thomas type attitude.

Fact #4. Devin's attention to detail in practice limited his playing time, false starts, wrong depth etc.

Fact #5. Devin's peers most notable of which DeShaun Jackson had fairly productive rookie campaigns, while DT's numbers aren't worth mentioning.

All of these facts have nothing to do with Jason locking on Moss, they have everything to do with the maturity or immaturity of a physically gifted athlete who without question underacheived in 08'

All signs for this year are good. But blaming Jason for #11's lack of production is a stretch.

Is there anything you wish you could've done differently with Devin and Malcolm last year, given the way things went?

Hixon: "The only thing I wish we could've done differently ... obviously if Malcolm hadn't gotten hurt, he could've played more. I think at times I wish that Devin could've gotten off to a better start, because I think by the end of the season, he was out on the field and he had some opportunities to catch some balls, but most of the balls went to Santana if there was an either/or situation. I wish he would've been given the opportunity to make more plays for us."

Notice again how Hixon doesn't answer the question, the question is "Is there anything YOU wish YOU could've done differently"

And Hixon's answer to that is " Only thing I wish WE could've done" He also only insinuates Jason preferring Santanna at the END of the season; as for the rest of the year he simply wishes Devin would've gotten off to a better start. Well Stan don't we all, we all wish #11 would've started off strong, but he didn't, and the question is WHY. Was it Jason's fault then too? To be fair just as I made a thread criticizing Devin I also made one criticizing Stan Hixon and even said we should consider a change there...Steve Largent maybe? Thrash? Look the Rookies need the coaching, Santanna and Randle El they don't need a great WR coach, to me it's obvious Stan is making an excuse for his job not exactly getting done last year.

Here is why I think Devin sucked in 08'

a. His pridefull attitude (Pride comes before a fall)
b. His poor work ethic (this year he's putting in extra time,
nothing was stopping him from doing the same last year
except a.)
c. I throw in lack of desire because as a rookie, alot of rookies with top flight ability such as devin's pair that ability with the desire to be the best, so much so that it elevates their level of play and sometimes Rookie of the year.

Opinion, interpretation, and insination is not fact. There are valid points, but "which I interpret" is obviously not facts as you so label them. That is, unless you're some kind of anonymous expert that yyou haven't disclosed to us.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Opinion, interpretation, and insination is not fact. There are valid points, but "which I interpret" is obviously not facts as you so label them. That is, unless you're some kind of anonymous expert that yyou haven't disclosed to us.

Even if he WERE an expert, it would still be opinion, just an expert opinion.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Nope I'm right here, G4L doesn't Wilt, so here are the facts....

G4L still doesn't know the facts, mostly because G4L doesn't know the meaning of the word facts.

Opinion, interpretation, and insination is not fact. There are valid points, but "which I interpret" is obviously not facts as you so label them. That is, unless you're some kind of anonymous expert that yyou haven't disclosed to us.

Granted the second part of Fact #3 starting with "which I interpret" is opinion not fact, the phrase "which I interpret was meant to qualify that what was about to be said was a take on the previously mentioned fact.


But the first part of the statement is fact just as all the others and if necessary I'll go get and post the quotes and links to the interviews, I'm not making this stuff up.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Fact #1. Devin Thomas failed the physical conditioning test to start 08'

What is that saying about a broken clock?

Gibbs4Life wrote:Fact #2. Players, such as JC, and Jim Zorn this year have gone out of their way to mention how much more humble Devin is this time around, which is a way of saying last year he was cocky. Matt Terl and Larry Michael have echoed that sentiment, Larry called him "a different guy"

How can you say it's a fact they are "going out of their way to say anything? Even so Devin's level of being humble would be based on Zorn and Campbell's opinion wouldn't it. Teri and Larry echoes don't make any of it fact.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Fact #3. Santanna and Randle El both mentioned last year that while they could discuss football with Malcom , Devin was a guy that in their words kept to himself which I interpret as a you can't tell me nothin I'm Devin Thomas type attitude.[/qoute]
Lot's of players keep to themselves, the fact could be Moss and El didn't want to seem pushy and you took it to mean something else.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Fact #4. Devin's attention to detail in practice limited his playing time, false starts, wrong depth etc.

How do you know he just didn't' know the playbook or maybe he is a slow learner. The fact is he could have been very attentive and just wasn't getting it.

Gibbs4Life wrote:Fact #5. Devin's peers most notable of which DeShaun Jackson had fairly productive rookie campaigns, while DT's numbers aren't worth mentioning.

DeShaun had pretty good numbers last year but everytime I check they seem to take the time to mention Devin's numbers also... unless it's only listing the top performers.


Fact: One out of five is an improvement for you.

As everyones favorite cliche pseudocajun, Emeril, is so fond of saying:


BAM!!!

Lot's of players keep to themselves, the fact could be Moss and El didn't want to seem pushy and you took it to mean something else.

Either way that's a failure on Thomas' part. If you have veterans like Moss and ARE wanting to talk to you about the game and you choose not to then as a player you aren't doing everything that you can to learn, get better, and help the team.

Even so Devin's level of being humble would be based on Zorn and Campbell's opinion wouldn't it. Teri and Larry echoes don't make any of it fact.

Zorn and Campbell spend a lot of time with Thomas so I think that what they say about him being more humble this season has some merit to it. As for Terl and Larry, these guys spend a lot of time around the team so they would also be in a position to notice any changes in how Thomas is acting.

How do you know he just didn't' know the playbook or maybe he is a slow learner. The fact is he could have been very attentive and just wasn't getting it.

That would explain certain things that Thomas struggled with last year, but not everything. For example, the offensive pass interference penalties that he was called for. That has nothing to do with the playbook, that is a lack of discipline and concentration.

How can you say it's a fact they are "going out of their way to say anything?

Because they've said it more than once.

Even so Devin's level of being humble would be based on Zorn and Campbell's opinion wouldn't it.

Fact is they're saying it.

Teri and Larry echoes don't make any of it fact.

So Jim Zorn, Jason Campbell, Matt Terl, Larry Michael and all the other Redskins are wrong and you a guy on a message board are right

How do you know he just didn't' know the playbook or maybe he is a slow learner. The fact is he could have been very attentive and just wasn't getting it.

Now you're just piling an excuse on an excuse , he wasn't getting it, that's where we agree.

DeShaun had pretty good numbers last year but everytime I check they seem to take the time to mention Devin's numbers also... unless it's only listing the top performers.

You honestly believe 15 catches for 120 yds zero recieving td's, and one rushing td, for the season as a 2nd round draft pick is worth mentioning? C'mon.

Those numbers are not worth mentioning. In this thread you've made them necessary to mention because of your ignorance.

This hurts me more than it does you nik

Devin Thomas drafted 34th overall
15 catches 120 yds 0 recieving td's

DeSean Jackson drafted 49th overall
62 catches 912 yds 2td's

Eddie Royal drafted 42nd overall
91 catches 980 yds 5 td's

Donnie Avery drafted 33rd overall
56 catches 674 yds 3 td's

Stan Hixon the WR's coach stated that Devin gave great effort, get himself back on track and was open a ton but just wasn't given the ball.

That trumps any meaningless drivel that may be said by a fan.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Stan Hixon the WR's coach stated that Devin gave great effort, get himself back on track and was open a ton but just wasn't given the ball.

That trumps any meaningless drivel that may be said by a fan.

yeah...well.... that's all good for any "regular" fans.


but what about "super" fans?

Gibbs4Life wrote:This hurts me more than it does you nik

Devin Thomas drafted 34th overall
15 catches 120 yds 0 recieving td's

DeSean Jackson drafted 49th overall
62 catches 912 yds 2td's

Eddie Royal drafted 42nd overall
91 catches 980 yds 5 td's

Donnie Avery drafted 33rd overall
56 catches 674 yds 3 td's

Let's look at it another way.
Our 3 2nd round picks combined for 21 receptions for 165 yards

16 rookies had more than 21 receptions.
22 rookies had more than 165 receiving yards.

Gibbs4Life wrote:This hurts me more than it does you nik

Devin Thomas drafted 34th overall
15 catches 120 yds 0 recieving td's

DeSean Jackson drafted 49th overall
62 catches 912 yds 2td's

Eddie Royal drafted 42nd overall
91 catches 980 yds 5 td's

Donnie Avery drafted 33rd overall
56 catches 674 yds 3 td's

If we needed Thomas to start all year we would have seen comparable numbers from him. But coming in as a rookie he's just not going to displace Moss and ARE.

Who was DeSean Jackson sitting behind? Nobody. Do you think 900 yards and 2 TDs is good for a #1 WR? Do I even have to ask how you would evaluate that (rookie or not) if it was a Redskin?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:But it's also a huge blow to all the bullcrap certain fans spout about Devin. Here we have his position coach stating that Devin was giving 100% effort, and was wide the heck open but was just passed over.

I couldn't agree more Chris. Devin showed signs of what he is capable of, and I think he could be a very good WR for us given the opportunity.

Gibbs4Life wrote:This hurts me more than it does you nik

Devin Thomas drafted 34th overall
15 catches 120 yds 0 recieving td's

DeSean Jackson drafted 49th overall
62 catches 912 yds 2td's

Eddie Royal drafted 42nd overall
91 catches 980 yds 5 td's

Donnie Avery drafted 33rd overall
56 catches 674 yds 3 td's

All had great years, no doubt! But, those guys were the #1 or #2 WR on their team(if I am not mistaken), while DT was 4th. In Jackson's case specifically he was by far their #1 target, so why not compare his numbers to Santana's(which don't match up)? It is like comparing apples to oranges when you try to compare stats of the #1 WR on a team to the #4 WR on another, even if they are rookies!

while DT was 4th.

To me DT had every opportunity to become #2 last yr.

I'm over trying to prove that last year Devin let himself, the team, and the fans down due to his own actions. Nothing will change what happened anyway long after this thread is dead we'll still have been 8-8.

I'm actually looking for major improvements from the offense, I love that Dockery is back, I'm excited about the potential of Mike Williams, I think Jason if he ever was going to have a pro bowl year its 09', I think all our second year players should contribute more and any could have a breakout season, I love that we actually have some OL depth with Bridges and Rinehart improving, then of course there is the joy of tuning in every week to watch what very well could be the best defense we've had in 10 plus years.

Gibbs4Life wrote:

while DT was 4th.

To me DT had every opportunity to become #2 last yr.

I'm over trying to prove that last year Devin let himself, the team, and the fans down due to his own actions. Nothing will change what happened anyway long after this thread is dead we'll still have been 8-8.

I'm actually looking for major improvements from the offense, I love that Dockery is back, I'm excited about the potential of Mike Williams, I think Jason if he ever was going to have a pro bowl year its 09', I think all our second year players should contribute more and any could have a breakout season, I love that we actually have some OL depth with Bridges and Rinehart improving, then of course there is the joy of tuning in every week to watch what very well could be the best defense we've had in 10 plus years.

But you're not getting it.


Devin wasn't a starter last year. It's impossible to compare evenly a starter to a non starter in production. That's like comparing Portis' numbers to Ward on the Giants. One's a starter and one isn't. It's stupid and not close to an comparable evaluation.

To do this comparison, you need a Steve Spurrier III algorithm that breaks things down by attempt, distance, other talent at the position on a given team and coverages faced into a receiver ability matrix. Then, and only then, can we compare a #1 w/ a #4.

Gibbs4Life wrote: I'm over trying to prove that last year Devin let himself, the team, and the fans down due to his own actions.

Good, because you're only proving you have no idea of what you're talking about. Trying to compare Thomas to several other rookie WR's in completely different circumstances with their respective teams only proves you haven't a clue. Further, to suggest Thomas let everyone down is nonsense. The entire offense was learning a new system, not just Thomas. How long had Philly and Denver been in their respective offenses when the rookies arrived? And that's just one completely relevant factor among many.