The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

"I doubt Cerrato and Snyder expect to have Campbell or Jim Zorn back next year."

Where did that come from?

BnGhog wrote:"I doubt Cerrato and Snyder expect to have Campbell or Jim Zorn back next year."

Where did that come from?

It's been a gut feeling of mine...

It's different when you start a season at 2-6 and finish at 6-2.... That's ending on a high note.

Starting 6-2 and finishing 2-6....that's totally different and puts people on the "hot seat". Publicly, Zorn isn't on the hot seat but you best believe he's anxious to have a strong year next year after last years finish.

If we tank another season offensively... I wouldn't be shocked to see him gone.

Well I agree it is a position of great need, I know a lot of people don't. The Kelly gamble didn't work out, he will more than likely have constant knee problems. Thomas still has a shot, but nobody really knows. Moss got bracketed all last year, and nobody on the other side made opposing D's pay. We can't take one early in the draft due to other needs. Burress is probably going to jail, Holt and Harrison are old, and Boldin/Johnson will cost picks, although Boldin would be worth it more than likely. I'm all for a Boldin trade but it won't be cheap.

BnGhog wrote:"I doubt Cerrato and Snyder expect to have Campbell or Jim Zorn back next year."

Where did that come from?

History, the lack of patience this year that was demonstrated by Snyder in Campbells development and in the whole Cutler thing.


Most of the article was right on the money I think but I am torn between Kelly and Thomas getting experience and having a vet come in here and mentor. If we have a vet come in here we will have a much improved offense if not I think JC and Zorn are gone.

Zorn might "resign" if he has a 4-12 record next year, but I doubt the F.O. will fire him, or put pressure on him to quit if he does much better than that. The last coach the F.O. officially fired was Marty Schottenheimer.

I agree that Campbell might be gone if they have a bad year next year, but only if they choose not to re-sign him. They may let him float around in FA while they look at other options.

Bob 0119 wrote:Zorn might "resign" if he has a 4-12 record next year, but I doubt the F.O. will fire him, or put pressure on him to quit if he does much better than that. The last coach the F.O. officially fired was Marty Schottenheimer.

I agree that Campbell might be gone if they have a bad year next year, but only if they choose not to re-sign him. They may let him float around in FA while they look at other options.

Yeah, very true about Marty being the last one officially fired. I was actually proud of Snyder for not letting him go but it was a matter of time before that would eventually come about. Steve Spurrier looked like he had no idea where things went wrong and he looked like he had more pressure than a US President. I don't think he would have lasted much longer with out getting fired if he didn't quit. We all know that Gibbs was not going to get fired but I cant help but get a feeling of deja vu.

brad7686 wrote:Well I agree it is a position of great need, I know a lot of people don't. The Kelly gamble didn't work out, he will more than likely have constant knee problems. Thomas still has a shot, but nobody really knows. Moss got bracketed all last year, and nobody on the other side made opposing D's pay. We can't take one early in the draft due to other needs. Burress is probably going to jail, Holt and Harrison are old, and Boldin/Johnson will cost picks, although Boldin would be worth it more than likely. I'm all for a Boldin trade but it won't be cheap.

Lets give these rooks more than 1 year to show what they have or don't have, and while we're at it, let's give the coach the same respect. Contrary to popular belief, coaches don't usually come in after the off-season has started and wave a wand and produce a perfect season.

I would say Zorn needs 2 years to get enough of his people in place to even see what he's about. Coaches have new schemes, and some players don't excel in all schemes. If it was that easy, we'd all be head coaches.

BnGhog wrote:"I doubt Cerrato and Snyder expect to have Campbell or Jim Zorn back next year."

Where did that come from?

Cowher and Shannahan (who Vinny is supposedly close with) will likely be on the market after next season. If we finish with a mediocre record and miss the playoffs, it's not a stretch to imagine Snyder going after one of those two.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Well I agree it is a position of great need, I know a lot of people don't. The Kelly gamble didn't work out, he will more than likely have constant knee problems. Thomas still has a shot, but nobody really knows. Moss got bracketed all last year, and nobody on the other side made opposing D's pay. We can't take one early in the draft due to other needs. Burress is probably going to jail, Holt and Harrison are old, and Boldin/Johnson will cost picks, although Boldin would be worth it more than likely. I'm all for a Boldin trade but it won't be cheap.

Lets give these rooks more than 1 year to show what they have or don't have, and while we're at it, let's give the coach the same respect. Contrary to popular belief, coaches don't usually come in after the off-season has started and wave a wand and produce a perfect season.

I would say Zorn needs 2 years to get enough of his people in place to even see what he's about. Coaches have new schemes, and some players don't excel in all schemes. If it was that easy, we'd all be head coaches.

I want to make this real clear- I am all for Zorn staying here a long long time. I like him even though it took him almost all season before he could admit that he was a resposible party to some of our losses. He will get better and I think he could take us to the big game.

My question is this- Is it a bad idea to have an old FA (that can still run routes and get open) mentor and teach our rookies?

Lets give these rooks more than 1 year to show what they have or don't have, and while we're at it, let's give the coach the same respect. Contrary to popular belief, coaches don't usually come in after the off-season has started and wave a wand and produce a perfect season.

I would say Zorn needs 2 years to get enough of his people in place to even see what he's about. Coaches have new schemes, and some players don't excel in all schemes. If it was that easy, we'd all be head coaches.

On the one hand that's true. Realistically a coach (unless he completely bombs) deserves 3 years to get things in order. On the other hand, last season three rookie head coaches took over teams with losing records in 2007 and made the playoffs.

Mike Smith lead the Falcons to an 11-6 record after a 4-12 season in 2007.

The Dolphins were 1-15 under Cam Cameron in 2007. Tony Sparano took over and the team went 11-5 in 2008.

The Ravens, under Jim Harbough, went 11-5 this season after a 5-11 2007 season.

Fair or not, the NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" league. I think that with the success of some of these first-time head coaches that NFL owners might be even less patient than usual if their teams don't improve within a year or two.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Well I agree it is a position of great need, I know a lot of people don't. The Kelly gamble didn't work out, he will more than likely have constant knee problems. Thomas still has a shot, but nobody really knows. Moss got bracketed all last year, and nobody on the other side made opposing D's pay. We can't take one early in the draft due to other needs. Burress is probably going to jail, Holt and Harrison are old, and Boldin/Johnson will cost picks, although Boldin would be worth it more than likely. I'm all for a Boldin trade but it won't be cheap.

Lets give these rooks more than 1 year to show what they have or don't have, and while we're at it, let's give the coach the same respect. Contrary to popular belief, coaches don't usually come in after the off-season has started and wave a wand and produce a perfect season.

I would say Zorn needs 2 years to get enough of his people in place to even see what he's about. Coaches have new schemes, and some players don't excel in all schemes. If it was that easy, we'd all be head coaches.

Wow, seems like I'm agreeing more with Vet every day now.. Keeping coaches around for more than 2 years seems like a lost art in DC. Everytime I meet someone who's a fan of another team they all say the same thing "ya'll gonna keep suckin because ya'll don't ever have a coach stay around for a while".. true unfortunately but 8-8 last year under a new coach was a great thing. I mean, compared to starting 6-2- not so great but its ok imo.

WRs? Well, I think Santana and Randle El are veterans by now so I don't know why we'd want to bring in another vet WR for our rooks. Oh well, that's why they play the game for us to speculate and go crazy..

My question is this- Is it a bad idea to have an old FA (that can still run routes and get open) mentor and teach our rookies?

We don't need an over-the-hill vet like Harrison. Moss, who worked out with Thomas during the offseason, is fully capable of helping mentor and teach Thomas and Kelly.

Kilmer72 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Well I agree it is a position of great need, I know a lot of people don't. The Kelly gamble didn't work out, he will more than likely have constant knee problems. Thomas still has a shot, but nobody really knows. Moss got bracketed all last year, and nobody on the other side made opposing D's pay. We can't take one early in the draft due to other needs. Burress is probably going to jail, Holt and Harrison are old, and Boldin/Johnson will cost picks, although Boldin would be worth it more than likely. I'm all for a Boldin trade but it won't be cheap.

Lets give these rooks more than 1 year to show what they have or don't have, and while we're at it, let's give the coach the same respect. Contrary to popular belief, coaches don't usually come in after the off-season has started and wave a wand and produce a perfect season.

I would say Zorn needs 2 years to get enough of his people in place to even see what he's about. Coaches have new schemes, and some players don't excel in all schemes. If it was that easy, we'd all be head coaches.

I want to make this real clear- I am all for Zorn staying here a long long time. I like him even though it took him almost all season before he could admit that he was a resposible party to some of our losses. He will get better and I think he could take us to the big game.

My question is this- Is it a bad idea to have an old FA (that can still run routes and get open) mentor and teach our rookies?

I think that should be what Moss/El are for. If they're going to produce, then I'm for a vet signing, but mentorship? We have mentors on the team.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

My question is this- Is it a bad idea to have an old FA (that can still run routes and get open) mentor and teach our rookies?

We don't need an over-the-hill vet like Harrison. Moss, who worked out with Thomas during the offseason, is fully capable of helping mentor and teach Thomas and Kelly.

I hope your right. I was just thinking out loud. I am also hoping to see immediate results in the passing game. It might take a while before we see these rookies excel to the next level. Randle El just doesn't seem to be not only a number two but also a number three. So I guess we should just hope for the best.

Randle El just doesn't seem to be not only a number two but also a number three. So I guess we should just hope for the best.

Agree with you 100% about Randle El.

I'm freaking tired of ARE. Not only should be no higher than a slot WR, these "genius" coaches are hell bent on keeping him at PR...

I'd rather have Rock back there than ARE. Supposedly we picked up some guy from the CFL (or somewhere) that specialized in returns. Hopefully he performs and they hand the reigns to him.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm freaking tired of ARE. Not only should be no higher than a slot WR, these "genius" coaches are hell bent on keeping him at PR...

I'd rather have Rock back there than ARE. Supposedly we picked up some guy from the CFL (or somewhere) that specialized in returns. Hopefully he performs and they hand the reigns to him.

I don't understand it either Chris. There must be a reason for Rock not getting the ball on punt returns. Thrash would have even been better than EL. I guess he can't do it anymore or he would have been back there. Randle El does have a place on this team though but as a number 4. He does make plays occasionally. He is great to have if someone goes down. Even an emergency quarterback. So that brings us back to our rookies only having one real mentor.

Kilmer72 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm freaking tired of ARE. Not only should be no higher than a slot WR, these "genius" coaches are hell bent on keeping him at PR...

I'd rather have Rock back there than ARE. Supposedly we picked up some guy from the CFL (or somewhere) that specialized in returns. Hopefully he performs and they hand the reigns to him.

I don't understand it either Chris. There must be a reason for Rock not getting the ball on punt returns. Thrash would have even been better than EL. I guess he can't do it anymore or he would have been back there. Randle El does have a place on this team though but as a number 4. He does make plays occasionally. He is great to have if someone goes down. Even an emergency quarterback. So that brings us back to our rookies only having one real mentor.

I'm still of the mindset of putting Moss back there full time. That guy's frekaing exciting to watch as a PR. Kinda like back in the day when ole #28 used to do it...

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm freaking tired of ARE. Not only should be no higher than a slot WR, these "genius" coaches are hell bent on keeping him at PR...

I'd rather have Rock back there than ARE. Supposedly we picked up some guy from the CFL (or somewhere) that specialized in returns. Hopefully he performs and they hand the reigns to him.

I don't understand it either Chris. There must be a reason for Rock not getting the ball on punt returns. Thrash would have even been better than EL. I guess he can't do it anymore or he would have been back there. Randle El does have a place on this team though but as a number 4. He does make plays occasionally. He is great to have if someone goes down. Even an emergency quarterback. So that brings us back to our rookies only having one real mentor.

I'm still of the mindset of putting Moss back there full time. That guy's frekaing exciting to watch as a PR. Kinda like back in the day when ole #28 used to do it...

Yeah, for the longest time I kept thinking it was our blocking until Moss got back there.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm freaking tired of ARE. Not only should be no higher than a slot WR, these "genius" coaches are hell bent on keeping him at PR...

I'd rather have Rock back there than ARE. Supposedly we picked up some guy from the CFL (or somewhere) that specialized in returns. Hopefully he performs and they hand the reigns to him.

I don't understand it either Chris. There must be a reason for Rock not getting the ball on punt returns. Thrash would have even been better than EL. I guess he can't do it anymore or he would have been back there. Randle El does have a place on this team though but as a number 4. He does make plays occasionally. He is great to have if someone goes down. Even an emergency quarterback. So that brings us back to our rookies only having one real mentor.

I'm still of the mindset of putting Moss back there full time. That guy's frekaing exciting to watch as a PR. Kinda like back in the day when ole #28 used to do it...

I'd like to see him back there on a full-time basis as well. Sure there is the risk of injury, but that same risk is there every time he runs a route.

Dominique Dorsey is speedy man, being from Toronto (where he played), I've seen this guy play and he can bring it on special teams! I just hope he could be used as a change of pace back as well.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I'm still of the mindset of putting Moss back there full time. That guy's frekaing exciting to watch as a PR. Kinda like back in the day when ole #28 used to do it...

It was DUMB not to put him back there. The 1st freaking time he touched the ball he ran it back and sealed ARE's fate in my book.

What was Zorn saving him for, TD passes? LOL

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It was DUMB not to put him back there. The 1st freaking time he touched the ball he ran it back and sealed ARE's fate in my book.

What was Zorn saving him for, TD passes? LOL

Hopefully the rookies begin to step up and then we can afford to put Moss back there. Unfortunately, ARE hasn't been the return threat he was in a Steelers uniform; seems he was a liberal while a Steeler and now a conservative with the Skins.

Does anyone remember Calvin Johnson's rookie season?? All I kept hearing after his mediocre inaugural campaign was that it takes time to develop wide receivers out of college- and look at what happened after his rookie year. Nobody expected our rookies to do anything significant on the field their first season, and yet everyone on here was so quick to torch them for being unproductive. GIVE THEM A FIGHTING CHANCE!

Although there may be some truth to Kelly being a bust because of ongoing knee problems, isn't that why we drafted two receivers on day 1 of the draft? If one of them becomes a viable #1 receiver in the next couple of seasons, I'd say the draft strategy was successful.