The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I know there are articles and posts ad infinitum but for those interested, here's another article to add to the mix

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11534011

It is my opinion that we need to try and be very patient and think and plan for how we are going to be better in 2010 and beyond - this team has many issues that need to be addressed and while I hope Hall is a help I really feel Haynesworth is about hype and Dockery is a reach

money can solve every problem... right?

mo money, mo problems

SkinsJock wrote:I know there are articles and posts ad infinitum but for those interested, here's another article to add to the mix

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11534011

It is my opinion that we need to try and be very patient and think and plan for how we are going to be better in 2010 and beyond - this team has many issues that need to be addressed and while I hope Hall is a help I really feel Haynesworth is about hype and Dockery is a reach

Why is Dockery a reach?

No snark intended. I just didn't have the impression that we overpaid for him or anything.

Riggofan, SkinsJock thinks that Dockery is no more than a backup.

I've never really understood this logic. The Redskins had a full compliment of draft choices last year, plus a few extras, so they didn't do much in free agency. This year they only have a few picks, so they had to fill more of their holes with free agents.

What exactly were the Redskins supposed to do? Not improve the team because they feel bad about making mistakes before?

And by the way, if Judge was trying to be cute and clever with that bit about winning the offseason, he's a little late. It's been done to death.

Jeff Rhodes wrote:I've never really understood this logic. The Redskins had a full compliment of draft choices last year, plus a few extras, so they didn't do much in free agency. This year they only have a few picks, so they had to fill more of their holes with free agents.

What exactly were the Redskins supposed to do? Not improve the team because they feel bad about making mistakes before?

And by the way, if Judge was trying to be cute and clever with that bit about winning the offseason, he's a little late. It's been done to death.

Excellent post.

What exactly were the Redskins supposed to do? Not improve the team because they feel bad about making mistakes before?

They should never have put themselves into a position where they only have 4 draft picks. This goes along with the overall trend of the Snyder/Vinny era to trade away draft picks and favor free agents instead. That strategy, to this point, has been an abject failure. Top teams in the NFL (Pittsburgh, NE, Indy) generally focus mainly on the draft and only use free agency to supplement their homegrown talent. The Skins do the opposite.

chiefhog44 wrote:money can solve every problem... right?

No, but money makes failure easier to tolerate.

Cappster wrote:mo money, mo problems

Ha, notice that song wasn't released in a recession.

In the case of the redskins, it is very true unfortunately.

>>They should never have put themselves into a position where they only have 4 draft picks.<<

That's arguable. But in any case, it doesn't disprove my point that, having traded away draft choices, free agency is the only means left to them if they want to improve the team for this year. Again, are they supposed to not improve the team just to prove a point to someone that they've learned their lesson about mistakes they made in the past?

>>This goes along with the overall trend of the Snyder/Vinny era to trade away draft picks and favor free agents instead.<<

There have been exactly two years in the Cerrato era -- this year and last year. Last year we signed almost no one and drafted a lot of people. This year we signed three free agents and, barring a trade, will draft five. I'm not sure I see the basis of a trend here.

>>That strategy, to this point, has been an abject failure. <<

Strategies. Plural. Whatever else you can say about the Redskins this decade, each regime (Turner, Schottenheimer, Spurrier, Gibbs and now Zorn) has been distinctly different and had a distinctly different way of doing things. The problem isn't that the Redskins have applied a one-size-fits-all strategy with all these coaches, it's that there have been five or six different strategies in nine years.

>>Top teams in the NFL (Pittsburgh, NE, Indy) generally focus mainly on the draft and only use free agency to supplement their homegrown talent.<<

That's a misleading observation in several respects. First, yes, the Steelers do it that way, and it's worked for them. But for all their success on the field, the Rooneys aren't the wealthiest owners in the league, so I'm not sure we can say with absolute certainty they wouldn't be more active in free agency if they had the means to be.

Meanwhile, the Patriot dynasty has been built on a brainy coach and having won the lottery by finding Brady in the sixth round. Their draft success has been good, but not off the charts. The Colts' success, likewise, is predicated on having a great quarterback and a coach smart enough to let Peyton be Peyton. Without him, they'd be a .500 team.

Beyond that, what other teams have enjoyed success lately? The Giants for one season -- after signing Burress as a free agent. The Cowboys and Seahawks have made multiple playoff appearances in the decade and have been arguably bigger spenders in free agency than the Redskins.

The point is, there isn't a magic formula -- except to make good choices with the players you do acquire. If you're going to rely on the draft, fine. Just don't pick Michael Westbrook or Rod Gardner. If you're going to spend money in free agency, that can work too. Just don't spend it on Adam Archuleta.

Jeff Rhodes wrote: .. The point is, there isn't a magic formula -- except to make good choices with the players you do acquire.

If you're going to rely on the draft, fine. ....

If you're going to spend money in free agency, that can work too.

there you have it - in a nutshell - I was going to give my opinion on each of the points but that horse has been whipped to death here many times - a lot of people just want to be negative about anyone or anything that they perceive to be "anti".

Let me say that if you want to go back and look you will see that I am a very "supportive" fan and have been often accused of looking at things from a very biased perspective when considering anyone and everyone associated with the Redskins.

I understand your support - I have just reached a stage where I have to look at the only thing the same here is the owner and no matter what the coach or the method of running/owning this team - we are a mediocre franchise and in my opinion we have lost some if not a lot of our mystique.

This the Washington Redskins not the New England Patriots or the Steelers or the Raiders or the 49ers - this used to be the greatest franchise in the NFL - it's not about just making the playoffs and we cannot even do that consistenly - it's about having the historical background that is the Washington Redskins - we deserve better because we are better.

That sort of franchise spirit has eroded away under Snyder

I understand that Snyder is trying like hell to make this team better - and he's tried different coaches, different strategies - he's tried everything but getting football people to make all the football decisions - that's all - there is nothing wrong with his intentions they just have not worked.

As you alluded to in your post, we need to make good choices in both our draft picks and with our FA acquisitions - the best chance of making the correct decisions lies with having them made by NFL people

Snyder has tried everything and all we get is a mediocre franchise - that has got to stop and he needs to bring in people that will make good sound football decisions and then you will most likely not make the same mistakes. .

SkinsJock* wrote:I understand that Snyder is trying like hell to make this team better - and he's tried different coaches, different strategies - he's tried everything but getting football people to make all the football decisions

Oh, he tried that. He handed the team over to Marty, and it was working too. He just couldn't get over his need to be in the middle (or is that meddle) of things.

Ok - the reality is this team is going to be owned and managed by Snyder for some time and there will always be some that cannot stand him for whatever reason and that also will not change in the near future.

I just wanted to vent a little because I am one that was excited when I first heard we had someone who was ostensibly a fan and under 35 and he was going to own this franchise. I felt that would be just the ultimate for a Redskins fan - and I was hooked

We have all seen the result - nothing is going to change - I got my hopes up last year when we drafted 7 players and while it is only a year ago I was hopeful. I really think that we could still see the top 3 become viable players in the NFL. We already have seen what Horton has accomplished.

I was hopeful that in spite of giving up the 2 picks for Taylor (that could just as easily have been a "good" decision for our defense) that we would continue down a cautious building program that would include a combination of adding free agents and trying to acquire as many picks as we could but continuing to operate the whole franchise in a responsible manner.

I understand that adding a Haynesworth is not a fiscal concern nor does it limit anything we want to do as far as adding any more free agents is concerned - my only concern is that we seem to be looking towards our defense when it was obvious after last year that our main issue is scoring points and ensuring this team is able to transition this offense offensively in the near future.

After what we saw last year in Zorn's first year, even I, the eternal optimist, felt that the team was looking at 2 years minimum to get things straightened out so I was a little disapointed that we did not try harder to address the needs on offense or at least prioritize the offensive woes and kicking issues (both punting and goal scoring).

Adding Haynesworth is just more "flash" - sure he will make our defense better but I would like to see these guys applying the same desire to add players to those parts that needed it more - some have asked "well who would you like to add, we can still afford it". I would like to know what efforts were made to get something done - I just do not think there was the attention to trying to make that happen as there was to signing the most expensive defensive player in history - just because Snyder could.

I think that even if Thomas proves to be great and Kelly and Davis become as good as we could hope we still have a lot of other things that have to go right in order to be successful as an offense.

IMO - a good NFL GM would have already been ensuring we have capable back-ups to both our older offensive linemen and our QB - we might get lucky with both Dockery and Jansen but we shouldn't be in this situation and I think we would not be if we had a decent GM.

That is all past - now is what we are dealing with.

IMO, we need to be more patient and just add players that we know will help and make the whole team better - I think Dockery and Hall will do that but we are taking a fairly big risk in hoping that Fat Albert is a lot more healthy than he has looked.

I do not begrudge Fat Albert for signing a huge contract - I just would rather sign guys that want to make a team better and get paid well for it rather than someone who will only go to a team who will pay him what he thinks he's worth and hope it works out - I know there were other teams that thought he was worth the money too and it may work out, but to me it was just Snyder making a splash and Fat Albert kind of saying "show me the money"

We keep building on hopes and wishes and the past 10 years have not paid off very well with that sort of mindset.

I hope that everything we need to happen happens because if one little part of the equation does not work we will have to start again when we could be a year into getting ready for the future.

honestly, good or bad at least he is spending to try and make the team better. I'd be livid if he was twiddling his thumbs and not making moves, enjoying the cap room. At least he is willing to toe the cap line and do the cha cha on it.

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock* wrote:I understand that Snyder is trying like hell to make this team better - and he's tried different coaches, different strategies - he's tried everything but getting football people to make all the football decisions

Oh, he tried that. He handed the team over to Marty, and it was working too. He just couldn't get over his need to be in the middle (or is that meddle) of things.

Please, Gibbs was obviously making most of and signing off on the rest of the shots too. As should have been. This he's not a football guy is nonsense. You don't have to be to manage a team or any other successful business. He is the OWNER. He needs to be a good leader/organizational manager, not an expert in the business itself. I am not saying he is a good owner, just that the whole he's not a "football guy" is a complete irrelevancy to the discussion of if he's a good owner or not. Micromanaging an entire football organization that modern NFL teams are is no path to success.

I'll agree with that - Snyder is a good owner. The only issue I have with Snyder is that he has not turned over the "management" of the team to NFL people.

I must admit that I do not know for sure who has made the good or bad decisions about players, coaches or the FO personnel (do we have a front office?) the only measurement for how well we are doing is to consider where we are and what does the future look like.

Since Snyder has owned the team, it seems to me that he's never really had too much patience and that we would be better off with NFL guys running the team and Snyder not being as involved as I think he is. As I said, I'm not sure he's that involved with the decisions but it also seems to me that if something has not achieved anything more than mediocre results then something is wrong with how things are being done?

Snyder is a good owner, he just needs to look at where we are and change the way we are doing things because whoever was making the decisions has obviously not made very good decisions.

We are not a very good NFL team and if this was a team managed by a board of directors, someone would have been fired by now. We are not a business however, and as far as I know, only 1 man makes the ultimate decisions. Snyder cannot fire himself but he can fire a bunch of others and he should, and soon and in public.
We hear that he has let a lot of people go - I just do not think he's fired the guy or guys that have gotten us into this mess.

maybe I'm wrong but I think we would be better off with Snyder as the owner and Snyder putting some NFL people in charge of all things that happen on the field.
The way things have happened here has not worked, except if you do not mind the fact that we are destined for having a mediocre team that always look's better in the off-season than it does during the regular season.

SkinsJock wrote:I'll agree with that - Snyder is a good owner. The only issue I have with Snyder is that he has not turned over the "management" of the team to NFL people.

See, I'm not sure I understand or agree with this. In regards to Cerrato, if that's who you're talking about, some may not like him or his prior decisions, but he is an experienced football person and is the acting GM. Same goes for the rest of the front office staff. (Take a look) All of these guys have NFL experience, and many of them have a lot of NFL experience. Again, some may not like the front office staff or Cerrato specifically, but I think it's unfair and inaccurate to say they're not "NFL people".

SkinsJock wrote:I must admit that I do not know for sure who has made the good or bad decisions about players, coaches or the FO personnel (do we have a front office?)

I truly believe it's a collective and integrative process. There are more than a dozen scouts and player personnel people employed in the front office and all work extremely hard preparing film and lengthy reports on all players. It would really be foolish to think one guy alone is making all the decisions.

From the Pre-Draft Press Conference wrote:On the deciding factor if Zorn and Cerrato like one player and Snyder likes another:

Snyder: "Doesn't work like that. The board: we go by the board, like we've said year after year. The reason that we have a scouting department, and the reason we have all the coaches involved throughout the entire process, start to finish, is to assemble a Redskin grade, and to assemble a Redskin board. And then we work the board.

"And back to what Jim said about the draft picks last year, because we had such a high grade on Devin or Malcolm or Fred, you really have to make the decision not just for a need, or you're gonna make a mistake. You really take the player based on the board and the grade and that's how we do it, and it's been pretty good for us."

SkinsFreak wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I must admit that I do not know for sure who has made the good or bad decisions about players, coaches or the FO personnel (do we have a front office?)

I truly believe it's a collective and integrative process. There are more than a dozen scouts and player personnel people employed in the front office and all work extremely hard preparing film and lengthy reports on all players. It would really be foolish to think one guy alone is making all the decisions.

I think you nailed it there Freak. And I'll give Danny's detractors that in the end, that process is owned by Danny. Who in the end makes what decision I don't know. The facts are we aren't winning Super Bowls under Danny. We have started to make the playoffs regularly. Our future has promise but no certainties of changing the above. Danny's performance as owner has gone from poor to mixed. I've never argued he's a good owner. For some that I don't condemn him and want to burn him at the stake is defending him. That's their problem, I'm not going to stop arguing his performance is mixed, i.e., not all bad nor all good, just because they don't like it. Which means I tend to "defend" him more just because the loudest are on ONE side. Reminds me of another subject...

I basically just come back to the fact that we are who we are because of Snyder and who we are is not very good right now and the way of getting better is not to continue doing what we have been doing

We actually got a bad deal last year by winning a bunch of games we should not have won (well at least 3) - and now it seems like Snyder (or "someone") is considering trading away draft picks

We only have 5 picks in this year's draft and, if anything, we can trade players for draft picks but we definetly need to get as many draft picks as possible the next 2 years.

this team just continues to hope that we will be competitive but never seems to realize their potential because they do not seem to bring in players who make other players AND the team, any better - our players all look like superstars but they do not seem to play "together" very well if you ask me.

Joko,

My man. You are making WAY too much sense around here. You are calling it with realism and in a balanced manner. Certainly much better than I do. But remember, there had to be a radical before there was a moderate.

Cheers brother,

RiC

PS By the way brother, I am going to do my BEST to win the Hognostications this year.