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Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers reached escalator clauses..

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:26 pm
by Cooter
..substantially increasing their 2009 salaries.
The clauses were based on playing time. Campbell's salary increases from $783,000 to $2.858 million while Rogers' increases from $602,000 to $1.403 million. Both players are eligible for free agency after next season.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... AS&id=3137

Although this pads Campbell's pockets this year I am sure he's well aware he's playing for his future, and I hope that he earns a fat contract; not to stick it to the franchise, but I want him to prove he's a starter and a franchise quarterback, I am tired of waiting for one. I hope the release of Springs and this pay raise will appease Rogers for another year; we can't let this guy get to free agency next year.

Re: Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers reached escalator claus

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:47 pm
by SkinsJock
Cooter wrote: Campbell & Rogers reached escalator clauses in their contract, substantially increasing their 2009 salaries.
The clauses were based on playing time. Campbell's salary increases from $783,000 to $2.858 million while Rogers' increases from $602,000 to $1.403 million. Both players are eligible for free agency after next season.


Campbell -
Although this pads Campbell's pockets this year I am sure he's well aware he's playing for his future, and I hope that he earns a fat contract; not to stick it to the franchise, but I want him to prove he's a starter and a franchise quarterback.


I hope that Campbell is the QB that Gibbs thought he was worth. I also would note that when Zorn came in here, he gave him the starting QB 'title' - OK! now is the time to show that he (Campbell) is very special - 'good" is not even close - Campbell has to be very special or he should be our back-up - this guy has had everybody making excuses for him long enough - Campbell needs to be our future or accept the fact he's just as good as most of us think he is and that is "good, but not good enough" :wink:

Rogers -
I hope the release of Springs and this pay raise will appease Rogers for another year; we can't let this guy get to free agency next year.


OK if you say so :lol: - I can only hope that the combo of Hall and Rogers plus the addition of Fat Albert will make for a pretty good secondary.
Adding 1 guy instead of a bunch of guys will be interesting :roll:

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 6:11 pm
by MtSherwood7
i would have much rather added 1 superstate than 2-3 average or abover average players.

i am not saying that depth isnt important on a football team..it most definetly is..but superstars are what wins you championships. haynesworth is the type of player that will make the average guys next to him look good. and besides, whats the point of having a bunch of average guys when u can only start a certain amount. just look at our wr corp...

Re: Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers reached escalator claus

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:32 pm
by MakeRomoCry
SkinsJock wrote:
Cooter wrote: Campbell & Rogers reached escalator clauses in their contract, substantially increasing their 2009 salaries.
The clauses were based on playing time. Campbell's salary increases from $783,000 to $2.858 million while Rogers' increases from $602,000 to $1.403 million. Both players are eligible for free agency after next season.


Campbell -
Although this pads Campbell's pockets this year I am sure he's well aware he's playing for his future, and I hope that he earns a fat contract; not to stick it to the franchise, but I want him to prove he's a starter and a franchise quarterback.


I hope that Campbell is the QB that Gibbs thought he was worth. I also would note that when Zorn came in here, he gave him the starting QB 'title' - OK! now is the time to show that he (Campbell) is very special - 'good" is not even close - Campbell has to be very special or he should be our back-up - this guy has had everybody making excuses for him long enough - Campbell needs to be our future or accept the fact he's just as good as most of us think he is and that is "good, but not good enough" :wink: :


I ask you what, in your opinion would make a very special QB? Some people would say that he would have to have a good rating and throw a lot of touchdowns. Personally, I judge a quarterback by consistency, toughness and the ability to win. Ben Roethlisberger statistically had a horrible year last season with a below 80 passer rating. But the fact is Big Ben is extremely elusive in the pocket and can step up and make plays when it counts. To me, Cambpell doesnt have to have perfect numbers, but he needs to raise his level of play when the game is on the line. I believe he has all the tools to win and the support of his surrounding team and coaches will prove to be fruitful.

I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.

Re: Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers reached escalator claus

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:23 am
by cleg
Cooter wrote:..substantially increasing their 2009 salaries.
The clauses were based on playing time. Campbell's salary increases from $783,000 to $2.858 million while Rogers' increases from $602,000 to $1.403 million. Both players are eligible for free agency after next season.

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/player ... AS&id=3137

Although this pads Campbell's pockets this year I am sure he's well aware he's playing for his future, and I hope that he earns a fat contract; not to stick it to the franchise, but I want him to prove he's a starter and a franchise quarterback, I am tired of waiting for one. I hope the release of Springs and this pay raise will appease Rogers for another year; we can't let this guy get to free agency next year.


Rogers needs to learn how to catch a football before getting an extension. As for J Camp - given the way the dysfunction of this organi*tion may have ruined his career I am glad he is getting a couple mil this year.

Re: Jason Campbell and Carlos Rogers reached escalator claus

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:26 am
by Cooter
cleg wrote:Rogers needs to learn how to catch a football before getting an extension. As for J Camp - given the way the dysfunction of this organi*tion may have ruined his career I am glad he is getting a couple mil this year.


I agree Rogers needs to learn to catch the ball; I fully believe that Steelers game last year would've been won if he'd have caught the ball and taken it to the house. Although his hands aren't the greatest his coverage was extremely solid last year, especially coming off a serious knee injury.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:31 am
by Skinsfan55
What does this do to the cap situation? How much left do we have in the FA kitty? (Forgetting about the 10 million needed to sign rookies etc.)

I'm a sucker for novelty, and this is going to be an exciting season. Jason Campbell is playing for a big contract. I'm behind him, but he really needs to show a lot next year in order to stick around.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:12 am
by Cooter
Skinsfan55 wrote:What does this do to the cap situation? How much left do we have in the FA kitty? (Forgetting about the 10 million needed to sign rookies etc.)


That's a great question, and I don't have a definite answer but from what I've read on the Warpath, it does affect the cap number.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:22 pm
by VetSkinsFan
I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.


I don't see JC improving over the years that much. This past year, Zorn put it all on CP and told basically gave JC the scraps on offense. There's a reason that CP was the leading rusher going in to week 8 last year. There's also a reason that we finished 2-6 when CP broke down. I'm not condemning JC, but for me, this is put up or shut up time. No excuses. Either her leads or gets the hell outa the way after these 16 games upcoming.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 12:38 pm
by DEHog
VetSkinsFan wrote:
I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.


I don't see JC improving over the years that much. This past year, Zorn put it all on CP and told basically gave JC the scraps on offense. There's a reason that CP was the leading rusher going in to week 8 last year. There's also a reason that we finished 2-6 when CP broke down. I'm not condemning JC, but for me, this is put up or shut up time. No excuses. Either her leads or gets the hell outa the way after these 16 games upcoming.

DO you think Zorn’s future s connected to JC success??

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:10 pm
by Smithian
Hate to tell you guys but barring disaster we're not finish with 3 or 4 wins any time soon and we're not drafting a big time QB.

Jason Campbell is the future of this franchise, for good or for bad. Sink or swim. Either he succeeds and we have a TRUE franchise QB or he fails and we'll be in eternal QB limbo.

Absolute bull crap the organization doesn't sell out to help him. The guy is constantly looking over his shoulder. We're going to let this guy walk, he'll sign somewhere with good support from the higher ups, committed coaches, and solid help on offense, and he'll flourish and we'll look like fools.

AndDEHog, in a way, yes. If Jason Campbell succeeds, Zorn will look great if Campbell is great we're a contender. If Jason Campbell sucks, he'll just cry about no QB and we'll be stuck in hell trying to find a QB as the organization makes excuses for him.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:09 pm
by aswas71788
Jason Campbell has had good support from higher ups and committed coaching with the Redskins. He has also been the victim of poor O-lines and protection. As for constantly looking over his shoulder, that is the nature of playing football. There is always someone faster, younger, more healthy, can jump higher or more driven. Competiton for the position is natural. Jason Campbel certainly understands this as he has been around for many years in everything from high school to NFL football. He certianly understands that he must produce or someone else will take his spot.

His supporters have lots of excuses for him, but IMO, he is another Gus Frerotte or Jeff Garcia type, a journeyman OK as a starter sometimes but mostly a back-up with potential.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:18 pm
by MakeRomoCry
VetSkinsFan wrote:
I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.


I don't see JC improving over the years that much. This past year, Zorn put it all on CP and told basically gave JC the scraps on offense. There's a reason that CP was the leading rusher going in to week 8 last year. There's also a reason that we finished 2-6 when CP broke down. I'm not condemning JC, but for me, this is put up or shut up time. No excuses. Either her leads or gets the hell outa the way after these 16 games upcoming.


While I agree he hasn't improved that much, he has improved...look at his numbers. IMO, this is especially encouraging considering the dated perpetually changing offenses that he's been in. If you read my entire post I stated that this year given the stability of the "O", he should make greater strides. Clinton Portis did not break down, the entire team broke down midway through the season. People seem to forget that at midpoint through the season, we played a stretch of games that included some of the best defenses in history. Baltimore and Pittsburgh made everyone look bad.

I can agree that it is "put up or shut up time". But I posed the question to everyone one, 'what, in your opinion would it take to make Jason a special quarterback this year'? Would he have to win the Super Bowl this year for you to justify all of this? Perhaps a strong playoff run. Some would say that he just needs to be efficient and manage the game. I gave my opinion, now it's your turn. What would it take this season for you and the other 90% of Redskins fans to decide that Jason is the future?

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:31 pm
by VetSkinsFan
MakeRomoCry wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.


I don't see JC improving over the years that much. This past year, Zorn put it all on CP and told basically gave JC the scraps on offense. There's a reason that CP was the leading rusher going in to week 8 last year. There's also a reason that we finished 2-6 when CP broke down. I'm not condemning JC, but for me, this is put up or shut up time. No excuses. Either her leads or gets the hell outa the way after these 16 games upcoming.


While I agree he hasn't improved that much, he has improved...look at his numbers. IMO, this is especially encouraging considering the dated perpetually changing offenses that he's been in. If you read my entire post I stated that this year given the stability of the "O", he should make greater strides. Clinton Portis did not break down, the entire team broke down midway through the season. People seem to forget that at midpoint through the season, we played a stretch of games that included some of the best defenses in history. Baltimore and Pittsburgh made everyone look bad.

I can agree that it is "put up or shut up time". But I posed the question to everyone one, 'what, in your opinion would it take to make Jason a special quarterback this year'? Would he have to win the Super Bowl this year for you to justify all of this? Perhaps a strong playoff run. Some would say that he just needs to be efficient and manage the game. I gave my opinion, now it's your turn. What would it take this season for you and the other 90% of Redskins fans to decide that Jason is the future?


So, you fail to acknowledge that JC's sudden deterioration is not a coincidence to be the same time that CP was becoming nicked up? Yeah, b/c Alexander, whom they brought in while Betts and CP was out, was not a downgrade. That's why he was employed the whole yea... wait, he wasn't, was he?

As for JC being called "special," he'd have to become a competent playmaker. He'd have to have confidence, convert first downs and score more than 1TD/week. His 'stats' show he was mediocre. By far NOT a franchise QB with his performance thus far.

Is it a mismatch system to JC's strengths? I believe this is entiredly possible. I also believe is Zorn saw that much in JC, he'd have catered his passing game more to Joe Gibbs' QB, JC, but he didn't.

I foresee JC continuing mediocrity and either becoming back-up or walking.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:02 pm
by MakeRomoCry
VetSkinsFan wrote:
MakeRomoCry wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.


I don't see JC improving over the years that much. This past year, Zorn put it all on CP and told basically gave JC the scraps on offense. There's a reason that CP was the leading rusher going in to week 8 last year. There's also a reason that we finished 2-6 when CP broke down. I'm not condemning JC, but for me, this is put up or shut up time. No excuses. Either her leads or gets the hell outa the way after these 16 games upcoming.


While I agree he hasn't improved that much, he has improved...look at his numbers. IMO, this is especially encouraging considering the dated perpetually changing offenses that he's been in. If you read my entire post I stated that this year given the stability of the "O", he should make greater strides. Clinton Portis did not break down, the entire team broke down midway through the season. People seem to forget that at midpoint through the season, we played a stretch of games that included some of the best defenses in history. Baltimore and Pittsburgh made everyone look bad.

I can agree that it is "put up or shut up time". But I posed the question to everyone one, 'what, in your opinion would it take to make Jason a special quarterback this year'? Would he have to win the Super Bowl this year for you to justify all of this? Perhaps a strong playoff run. Some would say that he just needs to be efficient and manage the game. I gave my opinion, now it's your turn. What would it take this season for you and the other 90% of Redskins fans to decide that Jason is the future?


So, you fail to acknowledge that JC's sudden deterioration is not a coincidence to be the same time that CP was becoming nicked up? Yeah, b/c Alexander, whom they brought in while Betts and CP was out, was not a downgrade. That's why he was employed the whole yea... wait, he wasn't, was he?

As for JC being called "special," he'd have to become a competent playmaker. He'd have to have confidence, convert first downs and score more than 1TD/week. His 'stats' show he was mediocre. By far NOT a franchise QB with his performance thus far.

Is it a mismatch system to JC's strengths? I believe this is entiredly possible. I also believe is Zorn saw that much in JC, he'd have catered his passing game more to Joe Gibbs' QB, JC, but he didn't.

I foresee JC continuing mediocrity and either becoming back-up or walking.


Jasons "deterioration", as you call it, could be directly attributed to a number of things, not just CP breaking down. The O line at this point in the season was in bad shape and struggled with the pass pro assignments. Portis came out after the season and stated that at the halfway part of the '08 season, the coaching staff stepped in and started changing things, more specifically, the way the running backs were to run, hit the hole and fall. Zorn's playcalling was elementary and predictable. As I mentioned earlier, we played several lights out defenses. You suggested that Zorn cater his passing game to Gibbs. Well, considering he left the Gibbs running game intact, changing the passing game would have meant an entirely new (but antiquated) offense for Zorn all together.

While I would agree that Campbell is not yet a franchise QB, I don't think he is FAR from it as you suggested. Until we played the TOP defenses, were banged up and our playcalling suffered, Jason was having a pro bowl season. He was posting over a 90 QB rating, completed 65% of his passes and was the only QB at that time to have not thrown an interception- And all this while trying to learn a completely new, hybrid offense. I simply cant understand why (after looking at the bigger picture), you think that Jason is doomed to be a career back up. There's really no evidence to support this.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:10 pm
by Countertrey
But I posed the question to everyone one, 'what, in your opinion would it take to make Jason a special quarterback this year'?


Fire in the belly. I have never seen evidence of it. This kid is a terrific talent... but has no "fire in the belly".

Great quarterbacks have it. You want them to have the ball in their hands with 2 minutes on the clock, and needing 5 points to win. Peyton has it. Brady has it. Farvre had it. Marino had it. Elway had it. Jurgensen had it. Unitas had it, Even Zorn had it.

Tough guys, who are able to will their team forward, who, when it's on the line, make something when nothing is there.

Campbell remains his normal, plodding self. No fire. No leadership. Just calm. Safe. No risks. No great rewards.

I need to see fire in the belly... something to let me know that he's alive... that he hates losing... that it kills him to be on the sidelines with the game clock winding down.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:52 pm
by fleetus
At mid-season, everyone agreed JC had arrived. Then the O-line and Portis got banged up, as well as the defense and JC started running for his life. So, we know he can do it, now we just need to see him behind a good line for 16 games. (not sure Snyder has done much to ensure that, but we can hope anyway)

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redski ... _half.html

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:50 pm
by MakeRomoCry
Countertrey wrote:
But I posed the question to everyone one, 'what, in your opinion would it take to make Jason a special quarterback this year'?


Fire in the belly. I have never seen evidence of it. This kid is a terrific talent... but has no "fire in the belly".

Great quarterbacks have it. You want them to have the ball in their hands with 2 minutes on the clock, and needing 5 points to win. Peyton has it. Brady has it. Farvre had it. Marino had it. Elway had it. Jurgensen had it. Unitas had it, Even Zorn had it.

Tough guys, who are able to will their team forward, who, when it's on the line, make something when nothing is there.

Campbell remains his normal, plodding self. No fire. No leadership. Just calm. Safe. No risks. No great rewards.

I need to see fire in the belly... something to let me know that he's alive... that he hates losing... that it kills him to be on the sidelines with the game clock winding down.


Good post. This is one of the things I like about Drew Brees. He gets his guys fired up and ready to play. In a previous post, I mentioned how Ben Roethlisberger statistically had a bad season, but always seems to pull it out and make something out of nothing when the game is on the line.

Sometimes I wonder if Jason's average play is the result of coaching. We all know that Gibbs took a conservative approach with Jason especially in the early stages in his career. Gibbs emphasized ball control and if it's not there, throw it away. In other words, whatever you do, don't turn it over! To me, Zorn has taken a similar position evidenced by play calling and rarely taking shots based on the O lines performance. I am not a football coach, but it seems to me the more you focus on not making mistakes, the less chances you will have to make explosion plays and put points on the board. The most successful teams typically are the more aggressive ones. They don't try to run out the clock when they have a 3 point lead. I can only hope that this season Zorn modifies a lot of things and builds on what did work well for us. I'm almost certain that last year the O was working with a limited play book considering how late in the off season Zorn joined the team. Hopefully they can open it up a little more, take some more chances through the air, and maybe then Jason will have more confidence.

For whatever it's worth Elway, Favre and Manning only won 1 super bowl despite having extensive careers. (Peyton obviously still playing). Poor Zorn and Marino never went. Not to take anything away from these guys, they are all great, but it doesn't necessarily take a fiery, charismatic QB to win a championship.

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:27 pm
by Deadskins
MakeRomoCry wrote:For whatever it's worth Elway, Favre and Manning only won 1 super bowl despite having extensive careers.

Elway was on the winning team twice, though the first one they won despite him.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 7:42 am
by VetSkinsFan
MakeRomoCry wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
MakeRomoCry wrote:
VetSkinsFan wrote:
I think one thing you have to look at is a players ability to progress. Campbell has improved each year that he's been in the league. Now that he will actually have consecutive years in the same offense, his strides should be much greater this time around.


I don't see JC improving over the years that much. This past year, Zorn put it all on CP and told basically gave JC the scraps on offense. There's a reason that CP was the leading rusher going in to week 8 last year. There's also a reason that we finished 2-6 when CP broke down. I'm not condemning JC, but for me, this is put up or shut up time. No excuses. Either her leads or gets the hell outa the way after these 16 games upcoming.


While I agree he hasn't improved that much, he has improved...look at his numbers. IMO, this is especially encouraging considering the dated perpetually changing offenses that he's been in. If you read my entire post I stated that this year given the stability of the "O", he should make greater strides. Clinton Portis did not break down, the entire team broke down midway through the season. People seem to forget that at midpoint through the season, we played a stretch of games that included some of the best defenses in history. Baltimore and Pittsburgh made everyone look bad.

I can agree that it is "put up or shut up time". But I posed the question to everyone one, 'what, in your opinion would it take to make Jason a special quarterback this year'? Would he have to win the Super Bowl this year for you to justify all of this? Perhaps a strong playoff run. Some would say that he just needs to be efficient and manage the game. I gave my opinion, now it's your turn. What would it take this season for you and the other 90% of Redskins fans to decide that Jason is the future?


So, you fail to acknowledge that JC's sudden deterioration is not a coincidence to be the same time that CP was becoming nicked up? Yeah, b/c Alexander, whom they brought in while Betts and CP was out, was not a downgrade. That's why he was employed the whole yea... wait, he wasn't, was he?

As for JC being called "special," he'd have to become a competent playmaker. He'd have to have confidence, convert first downs and score more than 1TD/week. His 'stats' show he was mediocre. By far NOT a franchise QB with his performance thus far.

Is it a mismatch system to JC's strengths? I believe this is entiredly possible. I also believe is Zorn saw that much in JC, he'd have catered his passing game more to Joe Gibbs' QB, JC, but he didn't.

I foresee JC continuing mediocrity and either becoming back-up or walking.


Jasons "deterioration", as you call it, could be directly attributed to a number of things, not just CP breaking down. The O line at this point in the season was in bad shape and struggled with the pass pro assignments. Portis came out after the season and stated that at the halfway part of the '08 season, the coaching staff stepped in and started changing things, more specifically, the way the running backs were to run, hit the hole and fall. Zorn's playcalling was elementary and predictable. As I mentioned earlier, we played several lights out defenses. You suggested that Zorn cater his passing game to Gibbs. Well, considering he left the Gibbs running game intact, changing the passing game would have meant an entirely new (but antiquated) offense for Zorn all together.

While I would agree that Campbell is not yet a franchise QB, I don't think he is FAR from it as you suggested. Until we played the TOP defenses, were banged up and our playcalling suffered, Jason was having a pro bowl season. He was posting over a 90 QB rating, completed 65% of his passes and was the only QB at that time to have not thrown an interception- And all this while trying to learn a completely new, hybrid offense. I simply cant understand why (after looking at the bigger picture), you think that Jason is doomed to be a career back up. There's really no evidence to support this.


I suggested that Zorn cater to JG's Quarterback, not JG's system if JC was that good of a QB. Didn't the Cardinals do that for Warner? Seemed to have panned out fairly well for 'em.

I am being harsh on JC to prove a point about the deterioration. I know you haven't been here long enough to know my stance, but I am a huge supporter of the mentality that it all starts in the trenches (lines). If JC was such a 'special' QB as some suggest, wouldn't he have been able to seal with all of those 'changes' better than he did? I take nothing away from the elite Ds we faced at the same time where there were breakdowns, but if he was so special, I speculate that he should have fared a little better. The Bengals game was a perfect example.

Playcalling always sucked. The reason why it didn't appear so in the beginning was b/c no one had tape on Zorn in week 1. By the second half of the season, there was enogh tape on Zorn and CP's 30 carries a game with no downfield threat to let the opposing Ds know to stack the line. I thought that was pretty obvious. Zorn didn't all of the sudden start sucking at calling plays; I honestly believe that he was overwhelmed, which isn't unexpected for a man in his position. I believe that this is Zorn's year to show what he can do.

Which brings full circle back to JC and the offense. JC has to show that he can do what he needs to do to win games. I have a hard time believing that two O-Coords have been calling 5 yard passes on 3rd & 8. JC has to take the load off of CP; he's getting run in to the ground and we're shortening his shelf life with it.
JC needs to stop relying on his arm and rely on his receivers. He throws bullets to receivers as opposed to where the receivers going to be when the ball gets there. He reads slow and as long as he continues to rely on his arm strength alone, he'll never achieve any consistant amount of success.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:17 am
by CanesSkins26
He was posting over a 90 QB rating, completed 65% of his passes and was the only QB at that time to have not thrown an interception


Honestly, who really cares about any of that. The bottom line is that even through 8 games JC's production was lacking. He managed games well during the first half of the season, but more importantly, he didn't make plays. Through 8 games he only had 8 td's, which is pretty terrible. He got credit for not throwing int's, but interceptions are part of the game. Philip Rivers, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and Kurt Warner all threw double digit interceptions last season so if JC isn't producing td's, it doesn't matter how few interceptions he throws.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 1:46 pm
by fleetus
If you look at the top QB's in the game, Brady, Manning, Warner etc. I think you'll notice several OBVIOUS differences from JC.

1. The Offensive line they play behind
2. The WR's they throw to
3. More than one season with their respective offensive systems

Now i agree, JC still has to prove he can play a whole season and I'm not labeling him as anything until I see him play another season. But you have to consider the dropsy smurfs (Moss and ARE) along with injuries to Portis, Kendall, Thomas, Jansen and Heyer when you grade JC's 2008 season. Another year with Zorn and possibly better luck with injuries (signing Haynesworth hasn't helped our main issues from 2008, O-line and depth) will give JC a chance to silence the critics. But there is no doubt he has skills. And I personally have doubt that we could find a better QB very easily. We would either have to give out another Haynesworth deal to a free agent QB or move up in the draft one year to select another unknown quantity rookie.

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:06 pm
by broomboy
fleetus wrote:If you look at the top QB's in the game, Brady, Manning, Warner etc. I think you'll notice several OBVIOUS differences from JC.

1. The Offensive line they play behind
2. The WR's they throw to
3. More than one season with their respective offensive systems

Now i agree, JC still has to prove he can play a whole season and I'm not labeling him as anything until I see him play another season. But you have to consider the dropsy smurfs (Moss and ARE) along with injuries to Portis, Kendall, Thomas, Jansen and Heyer when you grade JC's 2008 season. Another year with Zorn and possibly better luck with injuries (signing Haynesworth hasn't helped our main issues from 2008, O-line and depth) will give JC a chance to silence the critics. But there is no doubt he has skills. And I personally have doubt that we could find a better QB very easily. We would either have to give out another Haynesworth deal to a free agent QB or move up in the draft one year to select another unknown quantity rookie.


Don't forget samuels was injured too!

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:14 pm
by VetSkinsFan
fleetus wrote:If you look at the top QB's in the game, Brady, Manning, Warner etc. I think you'll notice several OBVIOUS differences from JC.

1. The Offensive line they play behind
2. The WR's they throw to
3. More than one season with their respective offensive systems

Now i agree, JC still has to prove he can play a whole season and I'm not labeling him as anything until I see him play another season. But you have to consider the dropsy smurfs (Moss and ARE) along with injuries to Portis, Kendall, Thomas, Jansen and Heyer when you grade JC's 2008 season. Another year with Zorn and possibly better luck with injuries (signing Haynesworth hasn't helped our main issues from 2008, O-line and depth) will give JC a chance to silence the critics. But there is no doubt he has skills. And I personally have doubt that we could find a better QB very easily. We would either have to give out another Haynesworth deal to a free agent QB or move up in the draft one year to select another unknown quantity rookie.


Stats aside, my issue is that his play hasn't improved much since he was named starter. When I think back, I don'tthink of "JC's been improving," it's more of the midset of he's been relatively static. I'm hoping that systems, aging line, ect ect is the problem and not him, but it's tough to make a case for one person with everyone around him is at fault and he goes free...

Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 2:29 pm
by fleetus
VetSkinsFan wrote:
fleetus wrote:If you look at the top QB's in the game, Brady, Manning, Warner etc. I think you'll notice several OBVIOUS differences from JC.

1. The Offensive line they play behind
2. The WR's they throw to
3. More than one season with their respective offensive systems

Now i agree, JC still has to prove he can play a whole season and I'm not labeling him as anything until I see him play another season. But you have to consider the dropsy smurfs (Moss and ARE) along with injuries to Portis, Kendall, Thomas, Jansen and Heyer when you grade JC's 2008 season. Another year with Zorn and possibly better luck with injuries (signing Haynesworth hasn't helped our main issues from 2008, O-line and depth) will give JC a chance to silence the critics. But there is no doubt he has skills. And I personally have doubt that we could find a better QB very easily. We would either have to give out another Haynesworth deal to a free agent QB or move up in the draft one year to select another unknown quantity rookie.


Stats aside, my issue is that his play hasn't improved much since he was named starter. When I think back, I don'tthink of "JC's been improving," it's more of the midset of he's been relatively static. I'm hoping that systems, aging line, ect ect is the problem and not him, but it's tough to make a case for one person with everyone around him is at fault and he goes free...


So his play last year before injuries didn't seem an improvement to you?

66% completions
8 TD, 0 INT
1754 yds.
90 QB RATING
6-2 record

Well okay then, we all have our differing opinions. I definitely saw an improved QB. In fact, even during training camp last year I remember telling friends that just seeing JC speak, he seemed a much more mature guy and at ease with his role as a team leader. But anyway, time will tell. I definitely expect to see more of what we saw during the first half of last season again in 2009.