The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

As I said in the JC discussion thread, I voted C.

This thread is not intended to duplicate the discussion in that other thread. It focuses on the PERIOD of grace that you are willing to concede.

i voted for the third one.......... i actually think that we need to let him go just 2 or 3 games........ b/c every QB has a bad game or two...... but if he doesn't improve the third game bring him out and get brennan in.... i think that brennan, kelly, and thomas will all be starters within the next three years... little bit of a stretch but i think its true...... kelly will be awesome in the red zone.... thomas i fast and has decent hands..... brennan looked amazing in the preseason.....especially his first game in the hall of fame game......he is awesome

I'll reiterate the point I made in the other thread. I chose #1 because on a team with one of the highest salaries in the league and an 8-8 record, there is no room for sacred cows and automatic starters.

Furthermore, continuing to molly coddle and make excuses for Jason Campbell sends a lousy message to the entire team. The better message should be sent...perform or lose your job, like the rest of the world operates. Instill a bit of urgency across the board.

Campbell is no longer the young rookie, OK? He's entering his 5th year as a Redskin, 4th year as the undisputed starter? His production numbers haven't earned automatic, unquestionable starter status. This is the exact mentality that everyone complains about here when speaking of Snyder and Cerrato .. paying way too much for way too little. You all seem to call for a change in that philosophy constantly, while making excuses and justifying why Campbell should remain the starter. It's a complete contradiction.

Frankly, I'd trade him while he still may hold some perceived value. Bench him after under achieving next year and his value drops to zero because the Redskins will then have only 2 options .. resign him for way too much money or release him at the end of the year. Either way, it's a lose-lose, and it's a continuation of the mindset that has this team in salary cap and draft hell.

I voted for c also but I really am afraid that Zorn is going to give him more leeway than he deserves.

I think that Zorn is going to give Campbell all the support he can and will again work hard these next few months to ensure that he gets the best chance to show that he's able to lead this team and play well - I also think that Zorn is old fashioned to the extreme and will go even further than most in keeping Campbell in there.

I think it will be obvious to most by the end of training camp that our QB (Campbell) is not up to the standard that we deserve.

We will be going through a lot this year anyway - I just hope that we have somebody behind Brennan soon - that will give us 2 opportunities to find our next QB - I do not believe that is going to be Campbell.

I would love for Campbell to show us all how wrong that is but I just do not see it happening.

I say in the 4 to 6 game range. I want to see what the kids got and he deserves that. In my opinion, it is completely disingenuous to ignore the adversities JC has faced with the constant coaching and system change, in addition to the lack of production from the o-line and receivers.

Zorn has already said there's little chance Colt will unseat JC from his starting role going into next season. So if Zorn says JC is our guy, then that's fine by me. If at some point Zorn says a change is needed, that's also fine by me. Zorn knows QB's and I trust his conclusions. JC deserves another chance and everyone knows it... well, at least the paid professionals know it. If JC falls flat on his face, then I support a change when Zorn deems it necessary. But JC is our starter for now and he has my full support, I'm pulling for the kid.

Personally, I feel he should only get the benefit of the doubt if he wins an open QB competition this offseason.

I don't think he's an awful QB, but I would like to see him challenged regularly to prove he's our best QB.

Bob 0119 wrote:Personally, I feel he should only get the benefit of the doubt if he wins an open QB competition this offseason.

I don't think he's an awful QB, but I would like to see him challenged regularly to prove he's our best QB.

Yep, completely. I just don't think Collins or Colt (at this point) are better...

Yeah, totally agree. Let us see him first in training camp.

If he falters during the start of the regular season, then I would expect to see change by game 6.

Im still pretty sure Zorn will bring in one veteran QB he knows already before next season and the team will let go of Todd Collins. I dont know about his cap numbers and ramifications when letting him go, but that would seen a perfectly logical step with a semi new coach.

I voted for A, and I think Campbell is a decent QB.

What is this benefit of the doubt stuff? If you're the best QB in training camp, then you should be the starter. End of story.

Either way, I still think it doesn't matter much if our QB is Campbell, Brennan, Collins or Brett Favre. Our offensive line is just not that good. Its going to be difficult for any QB to be successful.

I said A, he hasn't proven that he is worthy of being a starting QB. He has had over 2 years to prove it and now it's time to make him sweat a little. He needs to earn his position at this point. Let's see who looks better during camp.

No matter what poll choice was made, I don't know who would be better. I have no problem with an "open" competition in training camp, but it's not likely to demonstrate that anyone is more capable than JC, so you end up with the same deal. He has a bad game in the regular season, sure, replace him. With who? A player he beat out in TC?

We're pretty much stuck with the cards in our hand right now.

I don't think we'd be able to address any QB issues until next offseason anyway, and it seems to me like JC still has a chance of developing. So I personally think JC should have the benefit of the doubt for most of, if not all of, next season.

If he doesn't begin to show massive improvement, though, I'll be calling for his removal as much as anyone else on THN.

Countertrey wrote:No matter what poll choice was made, I don't know who would be better. I have no problem with an "open" competition in training camp, but it's not likely to demonstrate that anyone is more capable than JC, so you end up with the same deal. He has a bad game in the regular season, sure, replace him. With who? A player he beat out in TC?

We're pretty much stuck with the cards in our hand right now.

I, for a rare change, beg to differ CT. We have the Draft and there is Free Agency before anf after the Draft.

So, let us assume that JC gets hurt early in the season. What next? Panic mode? That's about it, Right?

No, this is where a CLEVER and WISE GM kicks in and we do not have it. A GM is supposed to think:

Yep Jim Zorny, you are right. You put your eggs in the JC basket for all the old-fasshioned reasons and personal ego that may go to show all the fans how wrong they are in doubting this diamond in the rough. FINE.

My job as GM though, it is to THINK and PREVENT a debacle over the nrext season if your diamond in the rough ends up being no diamond and mostly rough. Thank you. Whether YOU like it or not, I am bringing the BEST among the following options:

a) a seasoned veteran whose contract is about to expire (a la Kurt Warner for the Cards, Hasselbeck has been mentioned by some);

or

b) the best QB in the Draft who can start (like Atlanta, Vick who???)

If picking a competent QB hurts JC feelings and may hamper his development damaging his self-confidence, so be it !!! The Team is more important than any one of its players, particularly one who doubts himself EVERY TIME !!!

This is a challenge for leadership and vision for the future of the team. It is not only a QB controversy.

There. I got it off my chest!

I agree with some that Jason needs to improve and really become a constitent offensive force. But!!! Our O-line has been mediocre at best...Until we address our Offensive line woes...our QB and offensive situation is just simply offensive.

The Poll shows a distribution of votes, which we call in the realm statistics as a bipolar distribution (as in bipolar personality )

There are two opposite highs: those 7 who definitely gave up on JC and those 7 who wish to give him the whole season because he deseves it or needs another fair chance.

The rest of us mortals are somewhere in between Preseason and the first few games of the regular season (4 to 6 games).

What does that distribution show: Nothing new really. It shows that the fans have no confidence yet in JC to be the long term solution for the Skins but the degree of patience to gve him a chance to prove himself varies considerably.

A glass half full: 14 members appear to give him a degree of opportunity that ranges from the first 4 games to the full season.

A glass half empty: 14 members appear no to give him a chance beyond 6 games into the regular season.

Jim Zorn is betting his futrure on JC if he is stubborn enough not to have a reliable or at least promising Plan B.

Colt and Collins need to be given a fair shot. If EITHER of them look great in the preseason regardless if they're playing against cardboard cut outs.

Jason gets 2-3 games to look confident and commanding of the offense. If he doesn't....bench him in favor of Collins or COlt.

I, for a rare change, beg to differ CT. We have the Draft and there is Free Agency before anf after the Draft.

I understand... the problem is, there are too many other critical holes. What miracle working quarterback is going to complete passes 30 yards downfield while running for his life? I think we are in a pick your poison type or scenario... but, ultimately, if we are to have a championship team in Fedex, it begins and ends with the offensive and defensive lines.

Countertrey wrote:

I, for a rare change, beg to differ CT. We have the Draft and there is Free Agency before anf after the Draft.

I understand... the problem is, there are too many other critical holes. What miracle working quarterback is going to complete passes 30 yards downfield while running for his life? I think we are in a pick your poison type or scenario... but, ultimately, if we are to have a championship team in Fedex, it begins and ends with the offensive and defensive lines.

Rothlisberger? And I think he's overrated, but better than Campbell.

Countertrey wrote:

I, for a rare change, beg to differ CT. We have the Draft and there is Free Agency before anf after the Draft.

I understand... the problem is, there are too many other critical holes. What miracle working quarterback is going to complete passes 30 yards downfield while running for his life? I think we are in a pick your poison type or scenario... but, ultimately, if we are to have a championship team in Fedex, it begins and ends with the offensive and defensive lines.

Jason is not always running for his life, it's not as bad as many people make it out to be. Now it is where it needs to be but when he has time he doesn't do anything with it either.

We need improvement among both lines, improvement that will take 2-3 seasons to solidify.

Redskin in Canada wrote:So, let us assume that JC gets hurt early in the season. What next? Panic mode? That's about it, Right?

No, this is where a CLEVER and WISE GM kicks in and we do not have it. A GM is supposed to think:

Yep Jim Zorny, you are right. You put your eggs in the JC basket for all the old-fasshioned reasons and personal ego that may go to show all the fans how wrong they are in doubting this diamond in the rough. FINE.

My job as GM though, it is to THINK and PREVENT a debacle over the nrext season if your diamond in the rough ends up being no diamond and mostly rough.

I think they did that last year when they drafted Colt. It's not unreasonable, by any stretch, for the FO and Zorn to say... "okay, even though JC is being forced to learn his third system in four years, we'll draft a QB now, to groom, while giving JC a 1 1/2 to 2 years to get acclimated. After that period of time, JC will have gotten his shot and Colt will have had time to mature. Then we can make a decision and see where we're at." So even though they'll bring in another QB for camp, as they always use 4 QB's for drills and stuff, with extremely limited cap room and draft picks, I don't think they'll waste any of that on another QB.

Champsturf wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

I, for a rare change, beg to differ CT. We have the Draft and there is Free Agency before anf after the Draft.

I understand... the problem is, there are too many other critical holes. What miracle working quarterback is going to complete passes 30 yards downfield while running for his life? I think we are in a pick your poison type or scenario... but, ultimately, if we are to have a championship team in Fedex, it begins and ends with the offensive and defensive lines.

Rothlisberger? And I think he's overrated, but better than Campbell.

The question is about Redskins quarterbacks, or quarterbacks who COULD play for the Redskins. Burgermeister does not play for the Redskins, nor will he in the near future... My point was, the line is porous... who wants to start their career lying on his back? That's how you destroy a promising young QB... (see "Patrick Ramsey")... we need to start with both lines... We should make do with the quarterback we have until that has been addressed.

Byron Leftwich, however, is seeking to muddy the waters...

I totally understand that we need to address the offensive line (and the defensive line to a lessor extent) but as RiC alluded to we also need to be mindful of the bigger picture. I think this team and many others really do not plan far enough in advance - we need to try and envisage where we will be in 2011 not just this year and hopefully next year. Players need to be brought in to coach and develop into the type of player that makes a lot of others around him better. We need to start adding the pieces that make for a better team.

I think even the most supportive Campbell fan will agree that he is most likely not going to be our QB in 2011. Unless we plan now for the long term we will constantly be trying to build for the now and not for the future - we need to think long term, not the instant gratification that has gotten us to where we are today with many players who are good but who collectively are not a very good team.

I agree that it is going to take more than a year or 2 - but, we should plan for 2011 and not just try and do what we have done for the last 10 years where we have always tried to just get players who someone felt were going to be best for this next season.

This does not just apply to the QB position but the whole team - if you are building for 2011 then ONLY keep the players that will make that team better - we constantly hold onto players that do not fit the bigger picture because they are only short term in the scheme of things.

If that is what you want to call "blowing it up" then that is what we need to do - we are not planning far enough ahead - .

I say week 8. If he doesn't get at least a little better by mid season I don't think he will get too a great starting QB level

Unquestionably all of next year. The reason being if he's not ever going to get it, not only do we need much more time than a few more games to make a final decision on that, but we also don't have a viable option right now. Everyone clamoring for Colt may well be right, but the kid is not ready NOW -- nor will he be during the first few games of next season if the plug is pulled then.

Anybody we attempt to acquire through FA would probably be overpaid for (when have we NOT?) so that is also not an option. I say give JC one more full season with the same cast and crew, let him show his stuff through good AND bad performances by he and his teammates, and then make a decision for the future. At that point we can either anoint Colt as the successor and prep him, or look to make a trade, draft or FA pickup.

Let's face it, guys: it's going on 17 years and counting. One more won't kill us. Let's not get rash with Campbell. Rashness is partially what got us INTO this mess...

BigRedskinDaddy wrote:Unquestionably all of next year. The reason being if he's not ever going to get it, not only do we need much more time than a few more games to make a final decision on that, but we also don't have a viable option right now. Everyone clamoring for Colt may well be right, but the kid is not ready NOW -- nor will he be during the first few games of next season if the plug is pulled then.

If Atlanta had been in the same frame of mind, Matt Ryan would not have started and SHINED over the last season.

How come other teams' first season QBs are thrown in there and succeed and ours need almost decades to be groomed?

Question is: If none of the two backup QBs are not in starting mode, WHO are they backing up?

Just as a side note Matt Cassel from the Pats was given the franchise tag (yep from close to half a million to OVER 14 million dollars a season).

May I remind you ALL that he is the "backup". I would be willing to give our three QBs for that guy. But rant aside, why are we stuck with two bodies who should not and cannot start or simply cannot be trusted to start in the first place????

Basically, the answe to the "period of grace" or "benefit of the doubt" following the logic of the message quoted above is:

The FULL season because we have nobody else capable to take over.

Nice position to be for the second most expensive franchise in sports ...