The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Redskins are to pick 13th in the Draft and that is all thanks to that huge collapse earlier today. If we had held on we would be picking 19th. Thank god! That is a huge difference.

Let's get going. Make a 2009 Draft forum and lets talk this offseason to death. Maybe a 2009 Offseason thread to discuss FA's as well? Idk, I just want to discuss the offseason and not the horrible disappointment that was this season.

13th is not too shabby. Don't you wish we hadn't given up 2nd and 6th

19th is horrible for not having made the playoffs.

WR Percy Harvin out of Florida might be there at 13, he's a weapon I'd take. But if its at all possible we'll probably try to trade back and gain picks which will leave us with more less than adequate players just like this years draft class

We needed to lose today and we did, Great Job Skins

trade 1st rounder to Detroit, and get 2 picks back, preferably 2 & 3rd/4th rounds(if they bite of course)?

hey maybe we can trade off some heavy dead weight contracts at the same time too?

SoulDOut wrote:trade 1st rounder to Detroit, and get 2 picks back, preferably 2 & 3rd/4th rounds(if they bite of course)?

hey maybe we can trade off some heavy dead weight contracts at the same time too?

Trade absolute no draft pick to pick up extra picks in later rounds. We need a great OT or OG-- a "great" one, not a couple of guys who may or may not make it. Your way lies doom.

Gibbs4Life wrote:13th is not too shabby. Don't you wish we hadn't given up 2nd and 6th

19th is horrible for not having made the playoffs.

WR Percy Harvin out of Florida might be there at 13, he's a weapon I'd take. But if its at all possible we'll probably try to trade back and gain picks which will leave us with more less than adequate players just like this years draft class

We needed to lose today and we did, Great Job Skins

I live near Harvin and have watched him for years. He is the greatest runner I've ever seen play in the flesh. Still, he's going to be a bust. He can't stay healthy-- too fragile, in spite of his strength.

I live near Harvin and have watched him for years. He is the greatest runner I've ever seen play in the flesh. Still, he's going to be a bust. He can't stay healthy-- too fragile, in spite of his strength.

Redskins trainers know how to deal with injury prone players.
Harvin is a SPECIAL athlete like #21 a game breaker. TD maker.

I about choked when I read in the post that Shawn Springs introduced Malcom Kelly to a guy who specializes in avoiding injury. Springs was injured so much this season in my mind he stole a check..

These guys stole a check this season...12 I wouldn't mind being gone

Springs
Taylor
Smoot (after DHall came)
Devin Thomas
Malcom Kelly
Fred Davis
Jon Jansen
Randy Thomas
Casey Rabach
Pete Kendall
Marcus Washington
Rocky McIntosh

Smoot was terrible over the last half of the season. He's got to be gone. Teams were targeting him...including today when a TD and key 1st down were picked up right over top of him. While I like Horton, he is a huge liability in the pass defense. Sure, he can catch balls thrown directly at him, but besides that he gets beat way too much.

Look for another safety to be signed in the off season to free Landry to go back to being a SS.

As for the 1st pick. It better be a pass rusher. Did anyone see what Merling did today? Merling is the guy we passed on because Vinnie said he wasn't any good. Yeah, score another one for our scouting department. Merling had an interception and a TD today while our 3 players we got in the 2nd round did absolutely nothing all year.

I too have watched Harvin from HS on up. I remember the Virginia state championship where he had 4 TD's in the first half. One on a run, one on a punt return, one on an interception and one on a kick return. Oh yeah, he also had 3 interceptions... in the 1st half! The game was suspended at half time due to a thunder storm. The Robinson HS head coach (the opposing coach) said that the storm was the only way they could stop him.

With that being said, he is far too injury prone to make it long term. But then again, I thought the same thing about Eric Metcalf (another Va. product) and Warrick Dunn and they had successful and long pro careers.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Trade absolute no draft pick to pick up extra picks in later rounds. We need a great OT or OG-- a "great" one, not a couple of guys who may or may not make it. Your way lies doom.

It's time to do something different -- and prioritize quality over quantity. Go for great at one spot instead of pretty good at several.

This team has a lot of 'pretty good' -- and you just saw how that works.

What good is a draft pick if you don't play the player?

I'm not going to say never draft a Florida or Michigan WR, but almost never.

The same for drafting WRs in the first round. But I would change that to NEVER, EVER, NEVER in the top 15 picks.

We have to draft for need (shut up Vinny!). We desperately need an infusion of youth in both lines, but I would love to see a stud OL at 13. Or if they really like a guy that they can get, at a lower spot, then try and trade down, but our first player taken MUST be a play maker and be at a position of need.

But the good thing is we desperately need help at OL (every position), DL (pass rusher), OLB (times 2), a blazing fast pass catching RB, and maybe a corner.

Of course the position that would improve this team the most would be QB. Campbell has the skills, he just is too slow. Not with his feet but between the ears. He fails to make plays that are there because he refuses to pull the trigger or just can't decide in time to pull the trigger. Heck he can't even decide what to do when he is about to get hit. Usually he just lets up and gives the guy a nice clean shot!

I hope you guys are keeping things in perspective. It does not matter who we bring in at WR if our WR's coach has no clue how to teach and is only a college level WR's coach. He has been our problem since we brought him in during Gibbs term. Our WR's don't run great routes and can't get open.

It does not matter who we bring in at DE/DT if our D-line system is based off of simply sitting back and stopping the run. Maybe I'm wrong but haven't we been told the D-line is not meant to rush but to stop the run. Most of our rushes come from LB's or DB's or Safeties.

If we draft Percy Harvin there are no words to describe how stupid the managemnt will have become. Whoever backs that idea, thank god you are not running the team...

Left draft WR's with our top 4 picks in two drafts. Really worked for the lions... Lets not forget Charles Rogers was special, Mike Williams was special, Desmond Howard was special. Percy Harvin is an unbelievable athlete but a. no team will take him in the top 20 due to size and injury b. we dont need another WR at all. Have you already given up on Kelly AND Thomas??? c. We have a TON of other needs like OL and DL which are much more important than WR.

Also, trading down would be stupid because we need a great OL or DL. Unless we could rip someone off like the Lions ripped off Dallas there is no way we should do it.

If we draft Percy Harvin there are no words to describe how stupid the managemnt will have become. Whoever backs that idea, thank god you are not running the team...

Left draft WR's with our top 4 picks in two drafts. Really worked for the lions... Lets not forget Charles Rogers was special, Mike Williams was special, Desmond Howard was special. Percy Harvin is an unbelievable athlete but a. no team will take him in the top 20 due to size and injury b. we dont need another WR at all. Have you already given up on Kelly AND Thomas??? c. We have a TON of other needs like OL and DL which are much more important than WR.

Also, trading down would be stupid because we need a great OL or DL. Unless we could rip someone off like the Lions ripped off Dallas there is no way we should do it.

If we draft Percy Harvin there are no words to describe how stupid the managemnt will have become. Whoever backs that idea, thank god you are not running the team...

Left draft WR's with our top 4 picks in two drafts. Really worked for the lions... Lets not forget Charles Rogers was special, Mike Williams was special, Desmond Howard was special. Percy Harvin is an unbelievable athlete but a. no team will take him in the top 20 due to size and injury b. we dont need another WR at all. Have you already given up on Kelly AND Thomas??? c. We have a TON of other needs like OL and DL which are much more important than WR.

Also, trading down would be stupid because we need a great OL or DL. Unless we could rip someone off like the Lions ripped off Dallas there is no way we should do it.

First..must replace Vinny...either give OC duties to Smith or get a new OC Zorn must be HC


Stud OL will be gone at 13 trade the pick for a 2nd and a 4th draft a OG with the 2nd and OT with the 3rd than get a DE,LB, FS, RB (Trade Betts)Spend FA money on DT.

Draft Harvin??? Well if Vinny is here and drafts best availible insted of need you may get your wish!

How can you give up on Kelly, Thomas and Davis after one season? Randle El should be gone. Talk about stealing a check. There will be a quality OT or OG later in the draft. Trade down and pick up a second. Oh yeah, cut Vinny.

We have to draft for need (shut up Vinny!). We desperately need an infusion of youth in both lines, but I would love to see a stud OL at 13.

Agreed

Or if they really like a guy that they can get, at a lower spot, then try and trade down, but our first player taken MUST be a play maker and be at a position of need.

So, here's a hypothetical... and it addresses the issue that Vinny has raised with drafting for need...

You get to the 13th pick. The positions you have identified as the greatest need are, say, OT, DT, OG. The best player of any of those positions, you have on your board as the 34th best availible talent. I'm not going to give him 13th pick money, so that is out. I'm satisfied with the talent I have on my team at the positions that are comensurate talent with the 13th pick. I try to trade down... no takers.

What are you going to do? Are you going to use the pick on a player that you don't believe is worth this level of pay? Or are you going to choose the best availible player. Just because you have a high pick doesn't mean that the talent in your particular area of need will match up with it. Nor can you count on being able to trade down.

Taking the best availible talent is how we selected Laron Landry. Was that a bad move? I'm willing to bet your answer is no.

http://www.fantasyfootballxtreme.com/nfl-draft-info/nfl-mock-draft/

This mock has us taking Eugene Monroe, OT out of UVA. From the mock's that I have seen this is the popular pick for the redskins.

Cooley47 wrote:If we draft Percy Harvin there are no words to describe how stupid the managemnt will have become. Whoever backs that idea, thank god you are not running the team...

Left draft WR's with our top 4 picks in two drafts. Really worked for the lions... Lets not forget Charles Rogers was special, Mike Williams was special, Desmond Howard was special. Percy Harvin is an unbelievable athlete but a. no team will take him in the top 20 due to size and injury b. we dont need another WR at all. Have you already given up on Kelly AND Thomas??? c. We have a TON of other needs like OL and DL which are much more important than WR.

Also, trading down would be stupid because we need a great OL or DL. Unless we could rip someone off like the Lions ripped off Dallas there is no way we should do it.

Harvin would be a huge mistake. Especially after drafting 2 WR's last year. I just don't think he is made for an NFL offense, he is just really good in the spread offense at Florida and he is not that big. He really isn't a every down receiver, hes a PR-KR and maybe a good slot receiver and a guy a team can use with that wild cat offense.

Countertrey wrote:

We have to draft for need (shut up Vinny!). We desperately need an infusion of youth in both lines, but I would love to see a stud OL at 13.

Agreed

Or if they really like a guy that they can get, at a lower spot, then try and trade down, but our first player taken MUST be a play maker and be at a position of need.

So, here's a hypothetical... and it addresses the issue that Vinny has raised with drafting for need...

You get to the 13th pick. The positions you have identified as the greatest need are, say, OT, DT, OG. The best player of any of those positions, you have on your board as the 34th best availible talent. I'm not going to give him 13th pick money, so that is out. I'm satisfied with the talent I have on my team at the positions that are comensurate talent with the 13th pick. I try to trade down... no takers.

What are you going to do? Are you going to use the pick on a player that you don't believe is worth this level of pay? Or are you going to choose the best availible player. Just because you have a high pick doesn't mean that the talent in your particular area of need will match up with it. Nor can you count on being able to trade down.

Taking the best availible talent is how we selected Laron Landry. Was that a bad move? I'm willing to bet your answer is no.

You could make an argument for Willis or Anderson

I'm not arguing either way... I'm just trying to help people understand the reason for the concept of drafting the best availible. When need and availibility match up, that's super... but it doesn't always work that way. And you don't select based on need if it will force you to reach, or to pay too much for a given level of talent.

Last year was a good example. None of the talent availible at our #1 pick was assessed as equivalent talent. We either had to trade down, or take best availible... we traded down, and got players that were on most boards as worth those picks. 2 were in positions of need (WR's), and one was a best availible pick (Davis). They may pan out, they may not... but hindsight is always perfect.

Countertrey wrote:

We have to draft for need (shut up Vinny!). We desperately need an infusion of youth in both lines, but I would love to see a stud OL at 13.

Agreed

Or if they really like a guy that they can get, at a lower spot, then try and trade down, but our first player taken MUST be a play maker and be at a position of need.

So, here's a hypothetical... and it addresses the issue that Vinny has raised with drafting for need...

You get to the 13th pick. The positions you have identified as the greatest need are, say, OT, DT, OG. The best player of any of those positions, you have on your board as the 34th best availible talent. I'm not going to give him 13th pick money, so that is out. I'm satisfied with the talent I have on my team at the positions that are comensurate talent with the 13th pick. I try to trade down... no takers.

What are you going to do? Are you going to use the pick on a player that you don't believe is worth this level of pay? Or are you going to choose the best availible player. Just because you have a high pick doesn't mean that the talent in your particular area of need will match up with it. Nor can you count on being able to trade down.

Taking the best availible talent is how we selected Laron Landry. Was that a bad move? I'm willing to bet your answer is no.

there are at least 6 OL that are worth the 13th pick. on the defensive side, i only see or know of 2 DL that would be worth 13th pick $. that's 8 lineman that could really help our team. I don't see all 8 being drafted ahead of the 13th picks.

teams ahead of us need the Stafford's and the Bradford's and the Beanie wells'...sure a few lineman will be gone (Andre Smith, Michael Oher, Brian Orakpo) but if we could get herman johnson, Eugene Monroe or, god willing, a Duke Robinson...I'd be an extremely satisfied fan

bottom line, there WILL be a worthy OL, DL available at 13...take him!

Countertrey wrote:I'm not arguing either way... I'm just trying to help people understand the reason for the concept of drafting the best availible. When need and availibility match up, that's super... but it doesn't always work that way. And you don't select based on need if it will force you to reach, or to pay too much for a given level of talent.

Last year was a good example. None of the talent availible at our #1 pick was assessed as equivalent talent. We either had to trade down, or take best availible... we traded down, and got players that were on most boards as worth those picks. 2 were in positions of need (WR's), and one was a best availible pick (Davis). They may pan out, they may not... but hindsight is always perfect.

I completely agree...i had no problem with last years draft. I was happy to get who we got and where we got them. a lot of people wanted us to take thomas with our 1st round pick and we still got him by trading down. but this year is different. there is talent out there that matches our need. so in my opinion, we need to use our 13th pick and then prepare for round 3

Countertrey wrote:I'm not arguing either way... I'm just trying to help people understand the reason for the concept of drafting the best availible. When need and availibility match up, that's super... but it doesn't always work that way. And you don't select based on need if it will force you to reach, or to pay too much for a given level of talent.

Last year was a good example. None of the talent availible at our #1 pick was assessed as equivalent talent. We either had to trade down, or take best availible... we traded down, and got players that were on most boards as worth those picks. 2 were in positions of need (WR's), and one was a best availible pick (Davis). They may pan out, they may not... but hindsight is always perfect.

So let's say Crabtree was there at 13 and the "best availible" we should take him??