The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

By Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post....

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/detail.jsp?key=328072&rc=dc_sp&p=0

Here's the key point: Cerrato said drafting according to need can be a way to sink your team. "You can't just go take a need," was the exact quote. "The way that you can screw up your team is if you go draft a need, you're gonna get a bunch of guys at those positions but you're not gonna be happy with the results."

And as an example, he pointed to the poor rookie seasons of two defensive ends who some Skins fans wanted: Miami's Phillip Merling, and Arizona's Calais Campbell.

"I mean, it came down to Phillip Merling, people say that we maybe should have taken," Cerrato said. "He has seven tackles right now for Miami."

Damning. Except it's not even close to accurate.

When Cerrato said this, Merling actually had 23 tackles (17 solo) and a sack, according to NFL.com. For a defensive end who has started just two games, that's actually not too shabby.

By way of comparison, Jason Taylor, who's banking $8 million and cost the team two draft picks, had 22 tackles (15 solo) and 1 sack at the time Cerrato offered this explanation, although Taylor did get three tackles and another half-sack yesterday. Andre Carter, the team's most productive end, had 30 tackles (18 solo) and 3 sacks at the time Cerrato was knocking Merling's production.

What can you even say? This is why this franchise is entrenched in mediocrity but I can't wait to see people defend this.

Ceratto is 100% correct. If we would have drafted for need last year we would have taken 2 WR's and a TE wtih out first 3 picks. How stupid would that have been!?!?

Linemen positions are not "fancy" positions. They do not have the shiny sparkle of a WR or a RB. The man is clueless. In the face of the collapse of our OL and DL, he still defends stubbornly his choices. What can -anybody-- say?

Any informed fan KNEW the possibility and DREADED the moment when one of our linemen would get hurt. Surprise, surprise ...

When EVERYBODY knows where our weaknesses and vulnerablities are and this butt kisser fails to acknowledge the FACTS, What hope is there ???

NONE.

But please read the part where he is utterly misinformed about about a defensive linemen they skipped over and....omg...its like a nightmare or something. lol

People defend this clown!?!?!

This really goes to the root of our problems!!
Someone please tell me who we have drafted in the Snyder/Vinny era that is a perennial all-pro, someone who will be talked about as a hall of famer?? Heck for that matter talk to me about our FA pickups…why is it that the FA we sign digress?? Our system is broken.

News flash Vinny…you do draft for need!! We had a great example this year.
We had a DE go down…and you felt you not only had to go out a get a replacement DE but a starting replacement?? News flash if you have a position on the team where you feel you have to do that when an injury occurs…don't you think you should address it via the draft??
Look at our starting lineup...how many are homegrown?? This ain’t baseball or basketball you can’t just go out and sign a guy and think he will play at the same level here. In baseball a 300 hitter is a 300 hitter anywhere he isn’t reliant on th other 8 guys. In basketball, Kobe or Lebron can take over a game, that doesn’t happen in football. I’m amaze at how FA prospers elsewhere why they don’t here. Taylor, Trotter, Lloyd. Arculetta, Sanders, Patten, the list goes on. How do you think the Raiders felt watching Moss and Jordan kill them on Sunday…

Again somebody please tell me who we have drafted or sighed for that matter that is a prennail all-pro and will be talk about as a HOFer. Please don’t go to and search it should be common knowledge to any Skins fan. There are only two…The late great Sean Taylor who quite frankly IMO we don’t contribute enough of our problems to his passing. The is Champ Bailey.

This has been discussed 1,954,454,307 times.

Over the past decade, the lack of drafting for both lines has been neglected and I think EVERYONE agrees on that. However, this past draft held a different set of circumstances. There was a deep run on linemen in the 1st round. We traded back for more picks, the right choice. There wasn't any top tier linemen left to be had.

The fact is, this year, we needed to upgrade our receiving corps for the future, and we got good value for our 2nd round picks. I'd just love for anyone to argue against that or for the future of guys like Thrash and ARE. Zorn needed taller receivers for his offense and even though the impact of these picks won't be felt until next year, we desperately needed to get these guys coached up for the future.

In contrast to last years draft, the 2009 draft class will be full of linemen, on both sides of the ball, with very little talent available at the receiver positions. So in my opinion, even though I agree they've neglected the lines for too long, in this past draft, we made the right choices, at least in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. There's a better than average chance that Yoder, Thrash and ARE will be gone next year, so we needed to fill those positions.

SkinsFreak wrote:This has been discussed 1,954,454,307 times.

Difference is... These are direct quotes from the moron himself. Quotes that show just how misinformed he is.

DEHog wrote:Again somebody please tell me who we have drafted or sighed for that matter that is a prennail all-pro and will be talk about as a HOFer.

Clinton Portis? Chris ey? Chris Samuels? Tough to predict the future of young guys like Landry and ey, but Portis is already getting some to consider...

Peter King wrote:4. I think Clinton Portis is going to be in front of us one day for Hall of Fame consideration. Two games shy of seven full seasons, and he's already past 9,000 yards. He's 27 years old. Can he muster 4,000 more yards? I'd think he will. If so, he'll be in Eric Dickerson territory.

SkinsFreak wrote:

DEHog wrote:Again somebody please tell me who we have drafted or sighed for that matter that is a prennail all-pro and will be talk about as a HOFer.

Clinton Portis? Chris ey? Chris Samuels? Tough to predict the future of young guys like Landry and ey, but Portis is already getting some to consider...

Peter King wrote:4. I think Clinton Portis is going to be in front of us one day for Hall of Fame consideration. Two games shy of seven full seasons, and he's already past 9,000 yards. He's 27 years old. Can he muster 4,000 more yards? I'd think he will. If so, he'll be in Eric Dickerson territory.

Portis is not homegrown and how many times has he been ALL-Pro and is not on a winning team
ey...he digressed this year andwill be challege for playing time by Davis in the future and is not on a winning team

Samuels is the best argument but in the end they will say he was on bad teams and he couldn't handle the speed rushers??

SkinsFreak wrote:The fact is, this year, we needed to upgrade our receiving corps for the future, and we got good value for our 2nd round picks. I'd just love for anyone to argue against that or for the future of guys like Thrash and ARE. Zorn needed taller receivers for his offense and even though the impact of these picks won't be felt until next year, we desperately needed to get these guys coached up for the future.

We did not NEED 2 WR's and a TE... How do I know??!? Cus they barely even played! At most we need one WR and that would have been Kelly.

And when Vinny tries to defend not getting Merling, he shows just how misinformed and ignorant he is. He's a joke and it's a joke to try to defend this garbage.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:This has been discussed 1,954,454,307 times.

Difference is... These are direct quotes from the moron himself. Quotes that show just how misinformed he is.

I think he was mostly referring to this years draft. And the fact remains that most GM's around the league agree with the notion that drafting solely for need in the high rounds can burn you. That's a fact. Again, I agree he's neglected the lines for too long, but this past draft, I believe he made the right choices. And is there any blame to be placed on the coaches? Do they have a say regarding what positions to draft for? I think they do.

I'll wait for judgement on Vinny til' after this years draft. I remember plenty of Skins' fans being thrilled with the job Cerrato did last year and I was one of them. I know we need youth on our lines and I think he does too, I'm of the opinion he is talking about not always drafting for need instead of never drafting for need. Anyways, i'd be shocked if the lines are not addressed in this years draft and if it is then in two consecutive drafts we will have added offensive weapons (skill positions) for our team and o-line and d-line help (assuming they draft those this year). I don't have as big a problem with last years draft as most of you do now, and I think that's only because they haven't contributed as much as we'd have liked.

DEHog wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

DEHog wrote:Again somebody please tell me who we have drafted or sighed for that matter that is a prennail all-pro and will be talk about as a HOFer.

Clinton Portis? Chris ey? Chris Samuels? Tough to predict the future of young guys like Landry and ey, but Portis is already getting some to consider...

Peter King wrote:4. I think Clinton Portis is going to be in front of us one day for Hall of Fame consideration. Two games shy of seven full seasons, and he's already past 9,000 yards. He's 27 years old. Can he muster 4,000 more yards? I'd think he will. If so, he'll be in Eric Dickerson territory.

Portis is not homegrown and how many times has he been ALL-Pro and is not on a winning team
ey...he digressed this year andwill be challege for playing time by Davis in the future and is not on a winning team

Samuels is the best argument but in the end they will say he was on bad teams and he couldn't handle the speed rushers??

I understand Portis is not homegrown, but you said draft or signed. And again, regarding ey, it's pretty tough to predict the future, but we're now in a WCO and the pass catchers have a better chance to be more involved.

SkinsFreak wrote:

DEHog wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

DEHog wrote:Again somebody please tell me who we have drafted or sighed for that matter that is a prennail all-pro and will be talk about as a HOFer.

Clinton Portis? Chris ey? Chris Samuels? Tough to predict the future of young guys like Landry and ey, but Portis is already getting some to consider...

Peter King wrote:4. I think Clinton Portis is going to be in front of us one day for Hall of Fame consideration. Two games shy of seven full seasons, and he's already past 9,000 yards. He's 27 years old. Can he muster 4,000 more yards? I'd think he will. If so, he'll be in Eric Dickerson territory.

Portis is not homegrown and how many times has he been ALL-Pro and is not on a winning team
ey...he digressed this year andwill be challege for playing time by Davis in the future and is not on a winning team

Samuels is the best argument but in the end they will say he was on bad teams and he couldn't handle the speed rushers??

I understand Portis is not homegrown, but you said draft or signed. And again, regarding ey, it's pretty tough to predict the future, but we're now in a WCO and the pass catchers have a better chance to be more involved.

Yea Iagree but I think ey digressed in the WCO still my point is we have not drafted well and it speaks volumes about our problems. We rely on FA's when we should be drafting better and plugging in the ocassional FA not the other way around.

Portis has not been the homerun hitter he was in Denver he's bee good not great!

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:The fact is, this year, we needed to upgrade our receiving corps for the future, and we got good value for our 2nd round picks. I'd just love for anyone to argue against that or for the future of guys like Thrash and ARE. Zorn needed taller receivers for his offense and even though the impact of these picks won't be felt until next year, we desperately needed to get these guys coached up for the future.

We did not NEED 2 WR's and a TE... How do I know??!? Cus they barely even played! At most we need one WR and that would have been Kelly.

And when Vinny tries to defend not getting Merling, he shows just how misinformed and ignorant he is. He's a joke and it's a joke to try to defend this garbage.

I'm not looking at solely this year, Chris. I said for the "future". I guess you like ARE, Thrash and Yoder more than I thought. Maybe you think they're worthy of sticking around for a few more years, I don't know. But I don't, and we needed replacements. And for the record, I'd take Thomas, Kelly and Davis over Merling any day of the week.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:By Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post....

http://mobile.washingtonpost.com/detail.jsp?key=328072&rc=dc_sp&p=0

Here's the key point: Cerrato said drafting according to need can be a way to sink your team. "You can't just go take a need," was the exact quote. "The way that you can screw up your team is if you go draft a need, you're gonna get a bunch of guys at those positions but you're not gonna be happy with the results."

And as an example, he pointed to the poor rookie seasons of two defensive ends who some Skins fans wanted: Miami's Phillip Merling, and Arizona's Calais Campbell.

"I mean, it came down to Phillip Merling, people say that we maybe should have taken," Cerrato said. "He has seven tackles right now for Miami."

Damning. Except it's not even close to accurate.

When Cerrato said this, Merling actually had 23 tackles (17 solo) and a sack, according to NFL.com. For a defensive end who has started just two games, that's actually not too shabby.

By way of comparison, Jason Taylor, who's banking $8 million and cost the team two draft picks, had 22 tackles (15 solo) and 1 sack at the time Cerrato offered this explanation, although Taylor did get three tackles and another half-sack yesterday. Andre Carter, the team's most productive end, had 30 tackles (18 solo) and 3 sacks at the time Cerrato was knocking Merling's production.

What can you even say? This is why this franchise is entrenched in mediocrity but I can't wait to see people defend this.

vinny is the best football guy around!

makes me wonder when parcells was around last year looking for a pres. job, why danny did not dump some cash his way

oneman56 wrote:I'll wait for judgement on Vinny til' after this years draft. I remember plenty of Skins' fans being thrilled with the job Cerrato did last year and I was one of them. I know we need youth on our lines and I think he does too, I'm of the opinion he is talking about not always drafting for need instead of never drafting for need. Anyways, i'd be shocked if the lines are not addressed in this years draft and if it is then in two consecutive drafts we will have added offensive weapons (skill positions) for our team and o-line and d-line help (assuming they draft those this year). I don't have as big a problem with last years draft as most of you do now, and I think that's only because they haven't contributed as much as we'd have liked.

Concur.

SkinsFreak wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:The fact is, this year, we needed to upgrade our receiving corps for the future, and we got good value for our 2nd round picks. I'd just love for anyone to argue against that or for the future of guys like Thrash and ARE. Zorn needed taller receivers for his offense and even though the impact of these picks won't be felt until next year, we desperately needed to get these guys coached up for the future.

We did not NEED 2 WR's and a TE... How do I know??!? Cus they barely even played! At most we need one WR and that would have been Kelly.

And when Vinny tries to defend not getting Merling, he shows just how misinformed and ignorant he is. He's a joke and it's a joke to try to defend this garbage.

I'm not looking at solely this year, Chris. I said for the "future". I guess you like ARE, Thrash and Yoder more than I thought. Maybe you think they're worthy of sticking around for a few more years, I don't know. But I don't, and we needed replacements. And for the record, I'd take Thomas, Kelly and Davis over Merling any day of the week.

The point is you could have address both positions in the draft...we didn;t need 2 WR and we didn't need a TE. For a draft pick to florish they have to be in the right system...why does are system seem to be wrong??

No I'm not happy with ARE, Trash as are 2 and 3...again that's a problem trying to bring in someone else 3 and make him are 2??

Well, I think they did need 2 WR's and a TE, for the future. And we did draft an OG in the 3rd and a DE in the 7th. Again, there wasn't anyone left to be had that was worthy in the 2nd round. We got three players in the 2nd that all had 1st round grades at one point or another.

Yeah, over the long term, we've neglected the lines for too long, I agree with that. But again, I'd take our 2nd rounders over Merling all day long.

Doesn't matter who the coach is, if we don't get a real GM we are doomed. Vinnie is an IDIOT!!

SkinsFreak wrote:Well, I think they did need 2 WR's and a TE, for the future. And we did draft an OG in the 3rd and a DE in the 7th. Again, there wasn't anyone left to be had that was worthy in the 2nd round. We got three players in the 2nd that all had 1st round grades at one point or another.

Yeah, over the long term, we've neglected the lines for too long, I agree with that. But again, I'd take our 2nd rounders over Merling all day long.

If I'm be honest as the draft was going on and I saw Kenny Philips still on the board...I wanted him...I did not want to see the Skins miove Landry to FS he's so much better at SS...hard for me to not back out that 9 months later.

SkinsFreak wrote:I'm not looking at solely this year, Chris. I said for the "future". I guess you like ARE, Thrash and Yoder more than I thought. Maybe you think they're worthy of sticking around for a few more years, I don't know. But I don't, and we needed replacements. And for the record, I'd take Thomas, Kelly and Davis over Merling any day of the week.

The future... We're in the future of 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. There's enough evidence. We do not need to wait until 2013 to come to the conclusion that he's an idiot.

I'm sure that in 2013 there will be more people saying that we need to wait for the future...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:I'm not looking at solely this year, Chris. I said for the "future". I guess you like ARE, Thrash and Yoder more than I thought. Maybe you think they're worthy of sticking around for a few more years, I don't know. But I don't, and we needed replacements. And for the record, I'd take Thomas, Kelly and Davis over Merling any day of the week.

The future... We're in the future of 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. There's enough evidence. We do not need to wait until 2013 to come to the conclusion that he's an idiot.

I'm sure that in 2013 there will be more people saying that we need to wait for the future...

I agree and what was Kelly, Thomas and Davis going to fix...It's not the WR spot...Quick someone tell me who plays opposite of Steve Smith in Carolina??

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:I'm not looking at solely this year, Chris. I said for the "future". I guess you like ARE, Thrash and Yoder more than I thought. Maybe you think they're worthy of sticking around for a few more years, I don't know. But I don't, and we needed replacements. And for the record, I'd take Thomas, Kelly and Davis over Merling any day of the week.

The future... We're in the future of 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005 and 2006. There's enough evidence. We do not need to wait until 2013 to come to the conclusion that he's an idiot.

I'm sure that in 2013 there will be more people saying that we need to wait for the future...

Oh, my bad. I forgot that NFL players have an endless shelf life. What was I thinking?

Seriously, what linemen was available in the 2nd round last year that would've made the difference for this team and was of better value? Because I've already agreed, several times, regarding the neglect over the past decade, but I'm referring to this years draft. Please, enlighten us.

SkinsFreak wrote:Oh, my bad. I forgot that NFL players have an endless shelf life. What was I thinking?

Seriously, what linemen was available in the 2nd round last year that would've made the difference for this team and was of better value? Because I've already agreed, several times, regarding the neglect over the past decade, but I'm referring to this years draft. Please, enlighten us.

You're just mad cus your homeboy Vinny is an idiot. It's not even debateable at this point and any defense of him is laughable.

You keep defending last year... Forget about last year for one second and look at the entire picture. That's why he's an idiot.

Now if you wanna focus on last year, Vinny is an idiot for his gross ignorance of Merlings stats when trying to make himself not look like a dummy for not getting him.

Yes, we needed a tall WR but did we really need two in 1 draft? Did we need an extra TE? NO cus they have NOT played. We coulda got one and possibly got Merling too.