The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

If you had the power to fire ANY one person from the skins organization with the hope that doing so would benefit the team, who would you give the pink slip to?

There is only one logical answer. Snyder. Removing Snyder would remove Cerrato. 2 rats with one stone.


I was tempted to vote for Larry Michael.

I voted Campbell, I fell from the bandwagon and it hurt... I think he is a good QB, but I don't think he is the right fit for us.

I wouldn't fire anyone. Personally I think Danny is softening on his hands on approach and I think that Vinny C is a really capable front office man. He was recruiting coordinator for Lou Holtz's Fighting Irish, and director of college scouting (later promoted to director of player personnel) with the 49ers towards the end of their glory days. His track record is pretty good, though it's tainted somewhat because he and Snyder are such good friends. I'd just let Zorn fulfill his contract and good things will happen.

some ppl on here are unbelievable. I am in NO WAY defending Danny boy...but come on. As an owner goes, he is not as bad as yall are making him out to be.

Does he make bad choices - YES
Does he overpay for players - YES
Does he interfere with the team too much - YES
-And until I hear from a person who has sat in on a meeting with these guys, I still think he spends what he is told he has to to make it happen and makes the choices that he is told will help even though they dont. I vote bye bye to VINNY, the one in Dannys ear telling him this crap.

Does he love this team - YES
Will he do anything he can to make the team better - YES
- Not alot of owners will go all out to make the team better, and will sacrifice life and limb to restore the franchise. A coach tells him who to get, he does. A coach tells him he needs a surplus of asst coaches...he'll get them. He spends whatever he needs to get the jobs done he is told need to be done.
I would rather have Dan snyder running the show than another owner who will not open the checkbook to get players. Other Owners who will not shell out the cash to make the team better.

Granted, many players have not worked out, but it is not because of Danny. He has signed the players he was told were needed in order to be successful. Now go right below Danny and find the person who was telling him who to sign, and that answer is Vinny.

Cerrato has been poisining Dannys head with the wrong signings, the wrong draftees. Cerrato has killed this team with the free agents and dratees since he has been here. All Snyder does is sign the checks.

Is there things Danny needs to do better...YES. But I will take Snyder over the Peter Angelos' of the world. Ill take Danny, all you other people can have the owner of the Bengals. Atleast we will TRY to make this team better nomatter what

Larry Michael.. awesome

Danny wants to do the right thing but two ego-centric things get in the way:

1) He doesn't realize that HE can't

and

2) He won't step out of the way because someone other than him will be in position to get -- and deserve -- the credit for making this team a success again. And he lives in a "me first" world.

I dont know the dude persoanlly, so I cant agree with you RedskinsFreak. All I know is he tries to make the team better by signing players, but they end up sucking. Is that his fault or dudes fault who told danny boy to sign them?

skins2357 wrote:I dont know the dude persoanlly, so I cant agree with you RedskinsFreak. All I know is he tries to make the team better by signing players, but they end up sucking. Is that his fault or dudes fault who told danny boy to sign them?

...or the coaches' fault for not using him correctly, or the player's fault for not living up to his potential.

Larry's got my vote. I can't believe they replaced Frank Herzog!

Now that I think about it a bit more, this is sort of a trick question. If Snyder were to be fired, Vinny and larry would be sure follow him out the door since they reside in Danny's backside.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I wouldn't fire anyone. Personally I think Danny is softening on his hands on approach and I think that Vinny C is a really capable front office man. He was recruiting coordinator for Lou Holtz's Fighting Irish, and director of college scouting (later promoted to director of player personnel) with the 49ers towards the end of their glory days. His track record is pretty good, though it's tainted somewhat because he and Snyder are such good friends. I'd just let Zorn fulfill his contract and good things will happen.

This is the biggest bunch of nonsense (read manure) anybody has "tried" to articulate in any one post in this forum in a long while.

WHATEVER "success" Notre Dame and the 49ers had was due to the work of OTHERS! This idiot was in for a ride! His REAL work has been done with us. For all the judging and misjudging of players and coaches the ONLY common denominator to dismal failure and incompetence is ... let me think hard ... thinking ... thinking hard ...

Vinny Cerrato !!!

This is the problem with some fans. They refuse to acknowledge that the guy behind most awful decisions in this team go back to this idiot and his butt licking habits.

I actually feel tha Snyder could be as good or bad an owner as any other in the NFL IF ONLY he knew how to put his EGO aside and hired the BEST man to lead the Skins as a GM.

We already have a good Head Coach. All we need is a good GM and a good QB.

skins2357 wrote:All I know is he tries to make the team better by signing players, but they end up sucking. Is that his fault or dudes fault who told danny boy to sign them?

When you've had as many failures as this team has (and it's a higher number than the successes) on that front, pure logic alone would suggest that that particular way of doing things doesn't work.

I don't condemn his desire or his trying. It's his obsession that he be seen as the one who did it.

There's an old definition of insanity that goes something like "insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result".

And, as long as Danny feels the need to go to combines, be in the draft room, or in any way be part of the player procurement process (other than authorizing someone who asks "can we pay $X million for this player?") ... it'll keep being the same thing.

He needs to totally divorce himself from the Football side of the operation.

skins2357 wrote:Is there things Danny needs to do better...YES. But I will take Snyder over the Peter Angelos' of the world. Ill take Danny, all you other people can have the owner of the Bengals. Atleast we will TRY to make this team better nomatter what

How much

I find it cute that you believe all of that.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

skins2357 wrote:Is there things Danny needs to do better...YES. But I will take Snyder over the Peter Angelos' of the world. Ill take Danny, all you other people can have the owner of the Bengals. Atleast we will TRY to make this team better nomatter what

How much

I find it cute that you believe all of that.

Things have gone to the dogs when comparisons between our team and the Bungles are the reference.

Wait, ...

... ACTUALLY they won a couple of days ago. I would not be criticising them too much just now.

Firing the owner ain't gonna happen. Vinnie needs to go because in his "real" first year on the job, he didn't address the major needs for this team at OL and DL. Instead he went for skilled positions that have not panned out yet when we have other pressing needs. If he had selected one of them and then used the other two picks on OL and DL, then he'd done something. Gibbs didn't address it either during his 2nd stint.

It is obviously that our winning percentage with free agents is pretty low even though we've won a few with guys like London. Trading picks for Taylor has not worked out or maybe it's too early to tell but right now, either him or Carter have to go and make room for a young FA or a rookie.

I say blow it up and fire Vinnie, Zorn, and the entire coaching staff. Since Danny is so good at marketing, maybe he could sell Casserly or some young assistant GM who is working behind a guy like Ossie Newsome, Ernie Acorsi, or Scott Pioli that is ready to become a full-time GM to come here.

Once you have that GM in place, then begin the search for a coach. Cowher maybe out of the picture with Cleveland looming large but what about Russ Grimm; Jim Schwartz; Steve Spagnuolo; Rex Ryan; and Mike Mularkey?? I'm sure these guys who have been successful as Coordinators on one side of the ball or the other would have sense enough to bring in one of these crusty old fired HC's to run the other side of the ball where they are effective and not try to do it all like Zorn has done in their first year. Norv is not and will never be HC material but he's a hell of a coordinator when that is all he does. Same thing with Romeo Crennel.

After the HC and staff are assembled, then evaluate the cap and the talent you have working against it. That would mean some decisions need to be made on Springs, Washington, JTaylor, Blades, Fabini/Kendall, Jansen, ARE, etc. We are too invested in Clinton to just cut him loose but Betts would be trade bait to see if we could get picks for him. RB's can be had anywhere so if Betts is traded, it wouldn't exactly kill us.

After you've cleaned house, sign D.Hall and with the draft picks we do have, focus on OL/DL, LB, and RB. If there is a young FA with talent available to fill one of those needs, then make him an offer. Otherwise, begin building the core of this team through the draft.

Lastly, announce to the die-hard fans of this team that this is your 5-year rebuilding plan and you are sticking to it. No coaching changes, no offensive or defensive changes, building through the draft and FA second and just sticking with this plan and letting your new GM and Coaching staff do what they do to make it work.

...

My vote would be Cerrato. He is credited for the condition of the 49ers. He originated the cap process in San Francisco that is being used in Washington and it was devestating for the 49ers because over time, they got further and further in the hole until it collapsed. They were unable to make quality player decisions for a number of years.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

skins2357 wrote:Is there things Danny needs to do better...YES. But I will take Snyder over the Peter Angelos' of the world. Ill take Danny, all you other people can have the owner of the Bengals. Atleast we will TRY to make this team better nomatter what

How much

I find it cute that you believe all of that.

Things have gone to the dogs when comparisons between our team and the Bungles are the reference.

Wait, ...

... ACTUALLY they won a couple of days ago. I would not be criticising them too much just now.

I was referring to his entire post, especially the parts about Danny being a fan. And the parts about Danny being Cerratos puppet.

Redskin in Canada wrote:WHATEVER "success" Notre Dame and the 49ers had was due to the work of OTHERS! This idiot was in for a ride! His REAL work has been done with us. For all the judging and misjudging of players and coaches the ONLY common denominator to dismal failure and incompetence is ... let me think hard ... thinking ... thinking hard ...

Vinny Cerrato !!!

It's pretty easy for you to say that but look at our drafts under Vinny C. I'm going to count 1999, 2000 (fired-rehired) 2002, 2003 (Joe Gibbs made most of the personnel decisions) and then 2007 is too close to call (though there's a lot of promise with every pick he made.) I'll put +'s next to guys who made significant NFL contributions and -'s next to guys who were total busts (relative to their draft positions of course.)

1999
+1. Champ Bailey, CB, Georgia
+2. Jon Jansen, T, Michigan
4. Nate Stimson, LB, Georgia Tech
5. Derek Smith, OL, Virginia Tech
6. Jeff Hall, K, Tennessee
7. Tim Alexander, WR, Oregon St.

2000
+1. LaVar Arrington, LB, Penn St.
+1. Chris Samuels, T, Alabama
3. Lloyd Harrison, CB, N.C. State
4. Michael Moore, G, Troy St.
5. Quincy Sanders, S, UNLV
6. Todd Husak, QB, Stanford
7. Del Cowsette, DT, Maryland
7. Ethan Howell, WR, Oklahoma St.

2002
-1. Patrick Ramsey, QB, Tulane (Though he was the personal choice of Steve Spurrier IIRC.)
+2. Ladell Betts, RB, Iowa
3. Rashad Bauman, CB, Oregon (He had a good career as a reserve.)
3. Cliff Russell, WR, Utah (Decent career as a return man and occasional reciever.)
5. Andre Lott, S, Tennessee
+5. Robert Royal, TE, LSU (Not a star, but he's a decent red zone weapon right now for the Bills.)
6. Reggie Coleman, T, Tennessee
7. Jeff Grau, LS, UCLA
7. Greg Scott, DE, Hampton
+7. Rock Cartwright, FB, Kansas St. (One of the top kick returners in the NFL, special teams ace.)

2003
-2. Taylor Jacobs, WR, Florida - 44th overall (I always liked him, but he could never stay healthy.)
+3. Derrick Dockery, G, Texas - 81st overall (Elite guard)
7. Gibran Hamdan, QB, Indiana - 232nd overall (Still in the league for the Bills. May even start this Sunday!)

What went so wrong with those picks? Or in this draft when he deftly traded down, picked up more selections and got Horton, Moore, Rinehart, Kelly, Thomas, Brennan, Davis, Tryon and others?

Vinny just doesn't get a fair shake with fans because they see his close relationship with Danny as the reason he was hired. The bottom line is his whole career is a history of success followed by promotions. It's idiotic to say that all the success he's had in his career is attributable to other people.

I voted for Snyder. While I've argued the hype over him is hyped and I don't accept he "can't" win, I'm not impressed with a decade of results. I also don't think we "can" get rid of him. But if you look at the revenue the Skins pull in, I think a random new owner is more then not likely to do better. In the ownership battle, I'd still vote for Danny over Junior, he didn't impress me. In the end, as an organization this is really just a referendum on Snyder. He's the guy running the show, not firing him and firing someone in the org below him is pointless.

Skinsfan55 wrote: I'm going to count 1999.

Sorry. Wrong answer. Just checked the media guide.

"Cerrato begin his first stint with the Redskins in the summer of 1999."

The draft's in April. It was Casserly's last.

But it comes down to him being one of only two constants in a decade of constant vacillation and under-achievement.

Snyder because if he goes the new owner wouldn't be stupid enough to keep Vinny.

roybus14 wrote:Firing the owner ain't gonna happen. Vinnie needs to go because in his "real" first year on the job, he didn't address the major needs for this team at OL and DL.

Urgh. Do people really forget this easily?

Offensive linemen were flying off the draft board and by the time we were set to pick at 21 all that was left was Sam Baker and Duane Brown who were both tackles (not exactly a position of need) and major reaches.

As far as defense goes the only defensive linemen selected between the 21st pick in the 1st round and the 3rd pick in the 2nd round were Lawrence Jackson, Kentwan Balmer and Phillip Merling none of whom have been very impressive.

We traded down, which IMO was a brilliant move, so we could pick up some more selections and not be forced to reach for a position of need.

Who else in the second round warranted slection over Thomas, Kelly and Davis? Thomas and Kelly looked like HUGE steals at the time and Davis looks like he could be a reliable red zone threat.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Urgh. Do people really forget this easily?

2004, 2005, 2006, 2007... Those years existed too. Where is the QUALITY depth?

RedskinsFreak wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote: I'm going to count 1999.

Sorry. Wrong answer. Just checked the media guide.

"Cerrato begin his first stint with the Redskins in the summer of 1999."

The draft's in April. It was Casserly's last.

But it comes down to him being one of only two constants in a decade of constant vacillation and under-achievement.

You're right, I should have remembered Casserly working that brilliant deal for Bailey. Of course, Vinny was still partially responsible for the free agent haul of 1999.

Brad Johnson (why in the world did we ever get Jeff George?)
Larry Centers (a nice recieving fullback who Marty cut.)
Marco Coleman (nice player who fit our system. 3 year starter.)
Sam Shade (considered a top saftey at the time.)

2000 brought us Smith (we got what we paid for), Sanders (only one year but he played well) and Carrier (he was okay, but only for the one year again.) I think we would have been a lot more effective if we hadn't allowed a stupid quarterback controversy to derail the season.