The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Give the guy another year.....at least..... come on guys and gals...!!!

Unless the wheels completely come off and the Redskins look dreadful in their final home game next week against the Eagles and on Dec. 28 at San Francisco, Zorn is probably going nowhere. If he goes 8-8 or 9-7, he probably finishes with a better record than most observers believed possible when he first took over for Gibbs.

I said this in training camp and I'll say it again: Not giving Zorn at least two years to make this work flies in the face of everything the organization said it wants to be: less impulsive, more patient; about building for a championship future not merely trying to buy it in one offseason.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02149.html

I'm on. Give the man a chance, he could still have a winning record on a team nobody thought was going ANYWHERE.

If you Zorn is given a second year or Snyder wants to stay the course, then he needs to fire Vinny and blow this team (players) up and give Zorn somewhat of a fresh start.

Right now, that lockerroom is lost, IMO. Even with the little bit of talent this team has, they have no fight whatsoever for this guy. If this were Gibbs still coaching, they'd at least put forth more effort. At this point you have to start looking at blowing up the team, keeping a core group on both sides of the ball and starting anew.

If Snyder decides to let Zorn go after this season, then he's got to privately and publicly say that he is going to drop back 5 and punt and staff this team with a brand new that includes a qualified GM, all new coaches, and take his lumps for the first couple of years after rebuilding talent on this team. As much as I hate to say it and I know he loves Portis, he's got to let him and a few others on offense go as well as Springs and a few others on defense go and start fresh with draft picks and young free agents. If he announces this as his five-year plan and get's the right GM, HC and staff inplace and declare that he is sticking with this plan, then maybe somebody like a Bill Cowher or somebody else will listen as well as any GM's or assistant GM's.

It is clear that there is a fractured group at the Park as we see how affected the whole Portis-Zorn was on the team.

brad7686 wrote:I'm on. Give the man a chance, he could still have a winning record on a team nobody thought was going ANYWHERE.

I'm split right now, mostly because he seems to have lost confidence from the players. I don't want turnover but i'm still torn. Also, I'm not someone who though this team was going NOWHERE. We were a playoff team last year and drafted one area of what was believed to be our weakness. I expected more from this offense and thought the playoffs were very attainable.

roybus14 wrote:If you Zorn is given a second year or Snyder wants to stay the course, then he needs to fire Vinny and blow this team (players) up and give Zorn somewhat of a fresh start.

Right now, that lockerroom is lost, IMO. Even with the little bit of talent this team has, they have no fight whatsoever for this guy. If this were Gibbs still coaching, they'd at least put forth more effort. At this point you have to start looking at blowing up the team, keeping a core group on both sides of the ball and starting anew.

If Snyder decides to let Zorn go after this season, then he's got to privately and publicly say that he is going to drop back 5 and punt and staff this team with a brand new that includes a qualified GM, all new coaches, and take his lumps for the first couple of years after rebuilding talent on this team. As much as I hate to say it and I know he loves Portis, he's got to let him and a few others on offense go as well as Springs and a few others on defense go and start fresh with draft picks and young free agents. If he announces this as his five-year plan and get's the right GM, HC and staff inplace and declare that he is sticking with this plan, then maybe somebody like a Bill Cowher or somebody else will listen as well as any GM's or assistant GM's.

It is clear that there is a fractured group at the Park as we see how affected the whole Portis-Zorn was on the team.

Portis vs. Zorn..........SOME LAME EXCUSE....TO ME

oneman56 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:I'm on. Give the man a chance, he could still have a winning record on a team nobody thought was going ANYWHERE.

I'm split right now, mostly because he seems to have lost confidence from the players. I don't want turnover but i'm still torn. Also, I'm not someone who though this team was going NOWHERE. We were a playoff team last year and drafted one area of what was believed to be our weakness. I expected more from this offense and thought the playoffs were very attainable.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody who thinks this team did anything but fall arse backward into the playoffs last year is fooling themselves. Add a brand new coach, system, and the fact that your draft picks are at a position that is slow to develop in the NFL, and its not an elite team. Elite teams beat teams that limp into the playoffs. This team could have made the playoffs with a few bounces one way or another, but they weren't going very far. If they beat the teams they should have, (Rams, Bengals) then they would have a good shot. But they aren't going to beat the elite teams because they lack personnel everywhere. One year is not enough to fire someone, especially a rookie coach. If they stink this bad next year, bring out the axe.

I'm in, it's a better option then another coaching search.

tribeofjudah wrote:

roybus14 wrote:If you Zorn is given a second year or Snyder wants to stay the course, then he needs to fire Vinny and blow this team (players) up and give Zorn somewhat of a fresh start.

Right now, that lockerroom is lost, IMO. Even with the little bit of talent this team has, they have no fight whatsoever for this guy. If this were Gibbs still coaching, they'd at least put forth more effort. At this point you have to start looking at blowing up the team, keeping a core group on both sides of the ball and starting anew.

If Snyder decides to let Zorn go after this season, then he's got to privately and publicly say that he is going to drop back 5 and punt and staff this team with a brand new that includes a qualified GM, all new coaches, and take his lumps for the first couple of years after rebuilding talent on this team. As much as I hate to say it and I know he loves Portis, he's got to let him and a few others on offense go as well as Springs and a few others on defense go and start fresh with draft picks and young free agents. If he announces this as his five-year plan and get's the right GM, HC and staff inplace and declare that he is sticking with this plan, then maybe somebody like a Bill Cowher or somebody else will listen as well as any GM's or assistant GM's.

It is clear that there is a fractured group at the Park as we see how affected the whole Portis-Zorn was on the team.

Portis vs. Zorn..........SOME LAME EXCUSE....TO ME

It's not necessarily a Portis vs. Zorn thing. Let's look beyond their tat-a-tat earlier this week. Zorn was never really prepared for the job as HC. He got thrown into because Snyder and Vinnie couldn't convince anyone else to come here and coach. It is evident since 6-2 that teams had enough film on this team and his tendencies that he become predictable. Then his in-game decisions are just baffling even for a rookie HC. Like today for example. We got about 2:07/8 left on the clock and we run a running play to Portis. Why not take an immediate shot at the endzone in that spot?

roybus14 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

roybus14 wrote:If you Zorn is given a second year or Snyder wants to stay the course, then he needs to fire Vinny and blow this team (players) up and give Zorn somewhat of a fresh start.

Right now, that lockerroom is lost, IMO. Even with the little bit of talent this team has, they have no fight whatsoever for this guy. If this were Gibbs still coaching, they'd at least put forth more effort. At this point you have to start looking at blowing up the team, keeping a core group on both sides of the ball and starting anew.

If Snyder decides to let Zorn go after this season, then he's got to privately and publicly say that he is going to drop back 5 and punt and staff this team with a brand new that includes a qualified GM, all new coaches, and take his lumps for the first couple of years after rebuilding talent on this team. As much as I hate to say it and I know he loves Portis, he's got to let him and a few others on offense go as well as Springs and a few others on defense go and start fresh with draft picks and young free agents. If he announces this as his five-year plan and get's the right GM, HC and staff inplace and declare that he is sticking with this plan, then maybe somebody like a Bill Cowher or somebody else will listen as well as any GM's or assistant GM's.

It is clear that there is a fractured group at the Park as we see how affected the whole Portis-Zorn was on the team.

Portis vs. Zorn..........SOME LAME EXCUSE....TO ME

It's not necessarily a Portis vs. Zorn thing. Let's look beyond their tat-a-tat earlier this week. Zorn was never really prepared for the job as HC. He got thrown into because Snyder and Vinnie couldn't convince anyone else to come here and coach. It is evident since 6-2 that teams had enough film on this team and his tendencies that he become predictable. Then his in-game decisions are just baffling even for a rookie HC. Like today for example. We got about 2:07/8 left on the clock and we run a running play to Portis. Why not take an immediate shot at the endzone in that spot?

What are your sources that "they" couldn't convince anyone else to take the coaching job??? Or are you talking out the side of your.......

I think we need to give him another chance. But if the team quits on him (like they did today) in the final two weeks of the season, he's got to go.

I would keep him, the real problem is Vinny and Danny. We don't have the player personnel to be good. Our Qb is atrocious and our lines on both sides of the ball are below average. HOW CAN A COACH PRODUCE A WINNING TEAM WHEN HE DOESN'T HAVE SOME QUALITY PLAYERS. He has a couple but not enough to win, we would suck with Vince Lembardi coaching this team.

LoL, I feel like the parrot in the commercial saying

"Not another year, not another year, I can't take this anymore, not another year."

tribeofjudah wrote:

roybus14 wrote:

tribeofjudah wrote:

roybus14 wrote:If you Zorn is given a second year or Snyder wants to stay the course, then he needs to fire Vinny and blow this team (players) up and give Zorn somewhat of a fresh start.

Right now, that lockerroom is lost, IMO. Even with the little bit of talent this team has, they have no fight whatsoever for this guy. If this were Gibbs still coaching, they'd at least put forth more effort. At this point you have to start looking at blowing up the team, keeping a core group on both sides of the ball and starting anew.

If Snyder decides to let Zorn go after this season, then he's got to privately and publicly say that he is going to drop back 5 and punt and staff this team with a brand new that includes a qualified GM, all new coaches, and take his lumps for the first couple of years after rebuilding talent on this team. As much as I hate to say it and I know he loves Portis, he's got to let him and a few others on offense go as well as Springs and a few others on defense go and start fresh with draft picks and young free agents. If he announces this as his five-year plan and get's the right GM, HC and staff inplace and declare that he is sticking with this plan, then maybe somebody like a Bill Cowher or somebody else will listen as well as any GM's or assistant GM's.

It is clear that there is a fractured group at the Park as we see how affected the whole Portis-Zorn was on the team.

Portis vs. Zorn..........SOME LAME EXCUSE....TO ME

It's not necessarily a Portis vs. Zorn thing. Let's look beyond their tat-a-tat earlier this week. Zorn was never really prepared for the job as HC. He got thrown into because Snyder and Vinnie couldn't convince anyone else to come here and coach. It is evident since 6-2 that teams had enough film on this team and his tendencies that he become predictable. Then his in-game decisions are just baffling even for a rookie HC. Like today for example. We got about 2:07/8 left on the clock and we run a running play to Portis. Why not take an immediate shot at the endzone in that spot?

What are your sources that "they" couldn't convince anyone else to take the coaching job??? Or are you talking out the side of your.......

Tribe,

If they could have, then we would have a different HC. Snyder and Cerrato have sealed their fate by not disciplining Portis so now they have to blow this thing up.

Jim Zorn is going to fail because he cannot fix the root problem which is our front office structure.

This franchise is doomed to mediocrity because of it...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Jim Zorn is going to fail because he cannot fix the root problem which is our front office structure.

This franchise is doomed to mediocrity because of it...

This is the root. Whether JG 3.0, JZ, or Cowher is in the HC position, this team will not come to what it's capable of.

Note that I'm not down on JZ completely. I think he has a lot of soul searching and growing up to do; he wasn't ready to go from a QB coach to a HC. I think <and really hope> that things are looking up next year.

I'll take a ride on this one, I hope he stays... although, I would rather see him as the offensive coordinator, he might have lost this team as the head coach.

I support Zorn. I believe in him. But I could never trust the Danny to give him the time he needs to succeed.

This has been a dysfunctional organization for a LONG time. People should stick to what they know best and never try to climb up to a level of sheer and complete incompetence. Dan Snyder has never been, is not and will never be a Football expert.

I have never had, do not have and will never have any confidence in Dan "the Clown" Snyder and his love partner Vinny "the Sidekick" Cerrato.

I do not feel that Dan Snyder will sell the team for as long as he reaps millions of dollars out of his organization notwithstanding his dismal record of failure. He is already counting on your renewed loyalty and interest to get you back to spend in 2009.

If you all and I as fans wish to REALLY do something to change things, thou shall stop putting your hard-earned money in the Danny's pockets. Money, the availability and lack of it, is the ONLY language Dan Snyder understands.

I decided not to put ANY of my money in his pocket for over a year now and I am still standing in my position. Join the Revolution and lets get rid of the Evil Empire.

Let the Force be with you.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Jim Zorn is going to fail because he cannot fix the root problem which is our front office structure.

This franchise is doomed to mediocrity because of it...

This is the root. Whether JG 3.0, JZ, or Cowher is in the HC position, this team will not come to what it's capable of.

Note that I'm not down on JZ completely. I think he has a lot of soul searching and growing up to do; he wasn't ready to go from a QB coach to a HC. I think <and really hope> that things are looking up next year.

So Vet, what's your prediction? I can't read between the lines.... IS ZORN BACK FOR NEXT YEAR.....OR NOT...?

Redskin in Canada wrote:I support Zorn. I believe in him. But I could never trust the Danny to give him the time he needs to succeed.

This has been a dysfunctional organization for a LONG time. People should stick to what they know best and never try to climb up to a level of sheer and complete incompetence. Dan Snyder has never been, is not and will never be a Football expert.

I have never had, do not have and will never have any confidence in Dan "the Clown" Snyder and his love partner Vinny "the Sidekick" Cerrato.

I do not feel that Dan Snyder will sell the team for as long as he reaps millions of dollars out of his organization notwithstanding his dismal record of failure. He is already counting on your renewed loyalty and interest to get you back to spend in 2009.

If you all and I as fans wish to REALLY do something to change things, thou shall stop putting your hard-earned money in the Danny's pockets. Money, the availability and lack of it, is the ONLY language Dan Snyder understands.

I decided not to put ANY of my money in his pocket for over a year now and I am still standing in my position. Join the Revolution and lets get rid of the Evil Empire.

Let the Force be with you.

Nicely said.....but the is tough to do... WE ALL LOVE THE REDSKINS.

These were my thoughts prior to the start of the season, and they haven't changed now.

Now, a new coach is here to build upon that foundation to turn this franchise around. There is no guarantee for this season. There is a lot of talent on this team -- enough to win a lot of games. The question, as always, is how will that talent implement this new offense and put it together on the field each Sunday. To be honest, the results this season are of little consequence. This is the first step in a long journey from the depths of mediocrity to the new glory days.

As I said at the beginning of this year, the worst thing that could happen is for Zorn to have a bad year and get fired. It would show that Snyder hasn't learned jack from Gibbs.

If they let Zorn grow the team that he wants, not necessarily the team that he inherited, even if it's unsuccessful it will show us (the fans) that Snyder did, indeed, learn something about patience from Gibbs.

roybus14 wrote:If they could have, then we would have a different HC. Snyder and Cerrato have sealed their fate by not disciplining Portis so now they have to blow this thing up.

Fassel (and Mariucci, though not as overtly) were virtually begging for the job, roy.

This franchise will not flourish until a coach is brought in that will stand up to Snyder...

But Snyder will just fire him...

So the true answer is, this franchise will continue to suck until Snyder is gone.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This franchise will not flourish until a coach is brought in that will stand up to Snyder...

But Snyder will just fire him...

So the true answer is, this franchise will continue to suck until Snyder is gone.

I think that is true for the most part but it doesn't mean that the Redskins won't win a SB in the process...More so than ever the NFL is built for everyone to go 8-8...so when you suck for so many years you have to look at the FO...coaches don't forget how to coach...look at all the failure in Detroit during a time they've had high draft picks. Dallas' suscess stems from Parcell picking the players look at how Jones is screwing it all up!!!

DEHog wrote:I think that is true for the most part but it doesn't mean that the Redskins won't win a SB in the process...More so than ever the NFL is built for everyone to go 8-8...so when you suck for so many years you have to look at the FO...coaches don't forget how to coach...look at all the failure in Detroit during a time they've had high draft picks. Dallas' suscess stems from Parcell picking the players look at how Jones is screwing it all up!!!

Maybe they will fluke their way into a SB... *shrugs shoulders

Firing Zorn after one year would destroy this team. This team's record is better than I expected with a first year coach. I am excited to see what Zorn can do when he builds HIS team, not a team he inherited.

I think it's a lot harder to go from never being an coordinator to head coach when you are on the offensive side then it is on the defensive side. Thats why I see teams like the Falcons, Ravens succeeding because they have established OC running it.

I think Zorn spends a lot of time this offseason tweaking his playbook and working on his playcalling.