The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

These are the positions we need a substantial upgrade in:

- Offensive Guards: both (2)

- Offensive Tackles: 1 (Jansen/Heyer upgrade)

- WR: 2 (second and third receivers -- sorry the rookies are just not cutting it, dropped passes, offensive PI, etc.)

- QB: 1 (JC is just not our guy, no emotion, no leadership, face it - he is just not mentally there)

Offensive players to keep: CP, Sellers, Rabach, Thomas, Samuels, ey, Davis, Yoder, Moss, Brennan. Everyone else is expendable.

Offensive players to replace in order of importance:
1) OT
2) QB
3) OG
4) WR

Defense:

- DE: 2 (JT was a bust, Carter was inconsistent, Daniels is old)

- DT: 2 (We have perhaps, the worst tackles in football)

- LB: 2 (Fletcher is great, the others not so much: Washington is injury prone at this point, Blades just isn't an every down LB, McIntosh is good but injury prone - when healthy he is a solid player)

- FS/SS: 1 (need a solid back up in case of injury and our backups right now are not good)

- K: 1 (Suisham is just not good)

- P: 1 (this is obvious)

- PR: 1 (ARE is just downright horrible)

Defensive Players to keep: Fletcher, Hall, Springs (even though very injury prone), Rodgers (who needs to learn how to catch), Smoot, McIntosh, Horton, Landry, Carter. Everyone else is expendable.

Defensive players to replace in order of importance:
1) DE
2) DT
3) K/P
4) LB
5) FS/SS
6) PR

We are only as good as our last game. If that is the case, we are one of the worst teams in football right now. Our offense, literally, is the worst in football (not counting Detroit who is the worst in everything) --- this, IMHO, is a fact.

This team has a ton of work to do in the offseason. I can say with full honesty, that this is the worst I have felt about a redskins team since 2000. The fans deserve better than this.

Maybe this is just a rant, but I truly believe that the players on this team just don't care. I think that has alot to do with the crazy contracts Danny boy gives these guys, but they just don't care. They don't care about winning, about playing good football, and about playing for their passionate fan base. It's just plain gross.

markshark84 wrote:Maybe this is just a rant, but I truly believe that the players on this team just don't care. I think that has alot to do with the crazy contracts Danny boy gives these guys, but they just don't care. They don't care about winning, about playing good football, and about playing for their passionate fan base. It's just plain gross.

I agree; the only way this will improve is if fans refuse to spend money on this team until they are no longer owned by Dan Snyder.

The players do look like they don't care at all, just the same as they've looked under every coach except for Gibbs. We need a HC who isn't afraid to bench players, or even replace them. Players get paid way too much these days not to care.

Bill Cower would be a great addition!!!!!

If they draft a qb they are wasting their time. If they want to have open competition, that's fine. No qb can succeed in that offense until they fix their other problems. JC and Colt will have a decent grasp of the offense and can fight it out themselves.

In order of importance by need and by what rounds of the draft you can get a good player at that position...

1-2)DT/RT
3)LDE
4)OLB
4)OG(They all go in mid rounds...even good ones, Rinehart may emerge as well)
5)Corner Depth( always a need, probably addressed in free agency as well.
6)K (Free agent or 5thish round pick.)/ WR gamble in late rounds. Look for a Colston type)

With all the depth problems they should trade back if possible.

Being set at safety, TE and RB, and even QB to a degree, and with young WR's, there is no excuse but to address the trenches this draft. They need to draft at least 3 linemen, be it offensive or defensive.

Also, Heyer is not an NFL tackle. Not even a reserve.

amadkins wrote:

markshark84 wrote:Maybe this is just a rant, but I truly believe that the players on this team just don't care. I think that has alot to do with the crazy contracts Danny boy gives these guys, but they just don't care. They don't care about winning, about playing good football, and about playing for their passionate fan base. It's just plain gross.

I agree; the only way this will improve is if fans refuse to spend money on this team until they are no longer owned by Dan Snyder.

Exactly!
Don't spend another penny on this team/tickets/jerseys etc until they can at least earn our respect.
I'm done with this season!

brad7686 wrote:If they draft a qb they are wasting their time. If they want to have open competition, that's fine. No qb can succeed in that offense until they fix their other problems. JC and Colt will have a decent grasp of the offense and can fight it out themselves.

In order of importance by need and by what round you can get a good player at that position...

1)RT
2)DT
3)OLB/LDE ( address one in draft, one in FA)
4)OG(They all go in mid rounds...even good ones)
6)Corner Depth( always a need, probably addressed in free agency as well.
7)K (Free agent or 5thish round pick.)/ WR gamble in late rounds. Look for Colston Jr.

With all the depth problems they should trade back if possible.

Being set at safety, TE and RB, and even QB to a degree, and with young WR's, there is no excuse but to address the trenches this draft. They need to draft at least 3 linemen, be it offensive or defensive.

I agree that our first priority is the o and d lines, but I wouldn't downplay our need for a quality QB. JC had the opportunity in this game to make plays. I think that because he is such a likeable guy people give him more credit than he deserves and do make excuses for him. He is just not the leader we need. I must say though, I agree with you in that we should keep JC, but make it an open competition. If the opportunity presents itself in the 3rd or 4th rounds to pick up a top QB though, it would be tempting --- even though we should stick to drafting at the line positions (but this is very unlikely to happen).

Personally, if I were Zorn, I would tell everyone except for ey, Moss, CP, and Sellers, that all positions are open as of today. There is no fire in this team. I watch these games with passionate skins fans who live and die by every play and sit back and think -- if the players actually had half the passion my buddies had, we would be in the playoffs. Again, its gross.

grampi wrote:The players do look like they don't care at all, just the same as they've looked under every coach except for Gibbs. We need a HC who isn't afraid to bench players, or even replace them. Players get paid way too much these days not to care.

They looked that way under Gibbs to.

aswas71788 wrote:

grampi wrote:The players do look like they don't care at all, just the same as they've looked under every coach except for Gibbs. We need a HC who isn't afraid to bench players, or even replace them. Players get paid way too much these days not to care.

They looked that way under Gibbs to.

I have consistently contended that no single coach can change this. This is a player personnel thing and has to do with their contracts and front office management being too involved with the day to day in the locker room. I would love to hear another reason. The only other thing it could be is the players themselves --- which we should cut anyway.

aswas71788 wrote:

grampi wrote:The players do look like they don't care at all, just the same as they've looked under every coach except for Gibbs. We need a HC who isn't afraid to bench players, or even replace them. Players get paid way too much these days not to care.

They looked that way under Gibbs to.

True, but not nearly as bad.

markshark84 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:If they draft a qb they are wasting their time. If they want to have open competition, that's fine. No qb can succeed in that offense until they fix their other problems. JC and Colt will have a decent grasp of the offense and can fight it out themselves.

In order of importance by need and by what round you can get a good player at that position...

1)RT
2)DT
3)OLB/LDE ( address one in draft, one in FA)
4)OG(They all go in mid rounds...even good ones)
6)Corner Depth( always a need, probably addressed in free agency as well.
7)K (Free agent or 5thish round pick.)/ WR gamble in late rounds. Look for Colston Jr.

With all the depth problems they should trade back if possible.

Being set at safety, TE and RB, and even QB to a degree, and with young WR's, there is no excuse but to address the trenches this draft. They need to draft at least 3 linemen, be it offensive or defensive.

I agree that our first priority is the o and d lines, but I wouldn't downplay our need for a quality QB. JC had the opportunity in this game to make plays. I think that because he is such a likeable guy people give him more credit than he deserves and do make excuses for him. He is just not the leader we need. I must say though, I agree with you in that we should keep JC, but make it an open competition. If the opportunity presents itself in the 3rd or 4th rounds to pick up a top QB though, it would be tempting --- even though we should stick to drafting at the line positions (but this is very unlikely to happen).

Personally, if I were Zorn, I would tell everyone except for ey, Moss, CP, and Sellers, that all positions are open as of today. There is no fire in this team. I watch these games with passionate skins fans who live and die by every play and sit back and think -- if the players actually had half the passion my buddies had, we would be in the playoffs. Again, its gross.

I'm for open competition at QB, but not for acquiring one. If you fix problems around JC he is good and improving, and Colt could be really good in Zorn's offense if he showed he could take over. Drafting a Qb, especially early, would be EXTREMELY irresponsible considering we have one viable starting O-lineman, who is hurt, and no viable starting D-lineman except MAYBE Carter. The reason we lose to the giants, steelers, and ravens is in the trenches. It has nothing to do with Roethlisberger, Flacco, or Eli being better than Campbell because they just aren't. JC's problems are extremely exaggerated and should be attributed more to the fact that all facets of the offense are inexperienced with zorn's plays and inconsistent at running those plays. The WR and O-line have been more inconsistent than Campbell IMO.

brad7686 wrote:I'm for open competition at QB, but not for acquiring one. If you fix problems around JC he is good and improving, and Colt could be really good in Zorn's offense if he showed he could take over. Drafting a Qb, especially early, would be EXTREMELY irresponsible considering we have one viable starting O-lineman, who is hurt, and no viable starting D-lineman except MAYBE Carter. The reason we lose to the giants, steelers, and ravens is in the trenches. It has nothing to do with Roethlisberger, Flacco, or Eli being better than Campbell because they just aren't. JC's problems are extremely exaggerated and should be attributed more to the fact that all facets of the offense are inexperienced with zorn's plays and inconsistent at running those plays. The WR and O-line have been more inconsistent than Campbell IMO.

Agreed, wholeheartedly

redskindave wrote:Bill Cower would be a great addition!!!!!

Once again....I say I'M NOT SOLD ON COWHER.
SO he won ONE superbowl in 11 years....big deal.

Jim Zorn's inexperience really shows as a first year head coach. I think this team would be in a lot better position if Zorn was the OC with Fassel as the Head Coach.

That said, I think Jim Zorn will be okay, it seems like all the players (with the notable exception of CP) like him a lot. Hopefully we're done with the growing pains.

Our number one goal this offseason should be building the line. Rabach and Samuels are the only two I think that should be really safe. Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen both seem to be quickly losing their effectiveness and Pete Kendall is just too old.

On defense, is there any hope for Jason Taylor? Can we trade Andre Carter and move Taylor over? Will Taylor retire? Either way, we lost a 2nd round pick for him. Personally I think that our defensive tackle situation is pretty strong. With Griffin, Montgomery and Golston we have a nice rotation. The ends are the problems. Carter was a star last season (so was Taylor for that matter) but they've fallen off.

London Fletcher is a great MLB and Rocky plays the weakside well but Marcus Washington is the real question mark. He's a great player who's had a couple slow years with injuries. Can he pull it together and give us a couple more good seasons? He's only 31.

CB is very strong on this team, but only if we can re-sign DeAngelo Hall. Hall and Rogers would be one of the better tandems in the NFL. Smoot is an excellent Nickleback. Shawn Springs might be gone but there's been talk for years about him playing FS. Could Landry move back over to the strong side? Probably not, I think Springs is gone.

That leaves Landry and Horton in the defensive backfield with Moore as a capable backup... I think defense is going to be our strong point if we can just shore up the line... it's the key to a good defense.

The Redskins aren't a hopeless mess, but they're certainly a mess. Hopefully they can work out these problems and stop making self destructive trades.

i wouldn't give up on Campbell yet, come on

Ok, I don't want to start a "worthless" thread so I will put it here.
The wife and I will be going to SanFran to see the Skins play the 49ers.

Do I.....
1. sell the tickets
2. go and support them - try to get some autographs
3. go undercover, in disguise


Looks like I will go with my #21 jersey and the wife will be wearing #47 jersey. I WILL SUPPORT THE SKINS.....HAIL

I will now cast my vote for Carolina to head into the playoffs......

PEACE AND CHICKEN GREASE.........

tribeofjudah wrote:

redskindave wrote:Bill Cower would be a great addition!!!!!

Once again....I say I'M NOT SOLD ON COWHER.
SO he won ONE superbowl in 11 years....big deal.

Agree. This would just turn into another Schottenhiemer deal. It would be just another example of our front office dishing out tons of money to individuals who don't need to prove anything -- which result in them taking the money and not striving to succeed. We need players that are hungry to make a name for themselves in the NFL. Unfortunetly for us from a player perspective, this is done in the draft and proves out to be why the draft is so important in football --- and we have one of the worst 5 GMs (and owner who is really our GM) in all of football.

Trust me, I too respect the fact that Danny boy wants to win. The only problem with it is that he has absolutely no clue how to do it --- and is too conceded/pompous to realize it or hire someone with the stones to stand up to him and tell him how to win and what he does wrong.

redskindave wrote:Bill Cower would be a great addition!!!!!

Definitely. Every player on this team would play as hard as they could for that guy. I think even if we got him tho we would need a OC. I just don't see any progression in the offense at all. If Zorn could get this offense to end the season on a good note that could save his job. I don't see Snyder keeping him. If he fires Zorn he should fire Vinny too. Thats been more than 1 year in the making

Trust me, I too respect the fact that Danny boy wants to win. The only problem with it is that he has absolutely no clue how to do it --- and is too conceded/pompous to realize it or hire someone with the stones to stand up to him and tell him how to win and what he does wrong.

I also agree with this. Thats why he didn't want Marty around. So if he does get Cowher he has to listen to him.

Now that the season is OVER, ...

it is time to get ready for the holidays, and begin to prepare for fishing and get the car ready for next year ...

People, people, people ... calm down. Look at my signature. Abandon the Dark Side and join the Force.

LOL this season has been over since we lost to Dallas. Some just refused to believe it. Oh well... Welcome to reality.

markshark84 wrote:
- WR: 2 (second and third receivers -- sorry the rookies are just not cutting it, dropped passes, offensive PI, etc.)

i am not ready to give up on the WR's yet... DT has been able to play recently, and has developed some since the beginning of the year... MK, with his injuries, hasn't gotten a chance really... look at Calvin Johnson in Detroit, he didn't put up good numbers his first year (yes, he had better stats than our rookies, but he was also starting), and now look at him... i am no where close to calling these guys busts yet... give them adequate chance to play (in a decent offense), and then let's see... i will give them until the end of next year, and then see... plus, todays game, JC was terrible, how many times did he miss wide open players...

brad7686 wrote:I'm for open competition at QB, but not for acquiring one. If you fix problems around JC he is good and improving, and Colt could be really good in Zorn's offense if he showed he could take over. Drafting a Qb, especially early, would be EXTREMELY irresponsible considering we have one viable starting O-lineman, who is hurt, and no viable starting D-lineman except MAYBE Carter. The reason we lose to the giants, steelers, and ravens is in the trenches. It has nothing to do with Roethlisberger, Flacco, or Eli being better than Campbell because they just aren't. JC's problems are extremely exaggerated and should be attributed more to the fact that all facets of the offense are inexperienced with zorn's plays and inconsistent at running those plays. The WR and O-line have been more inconsistent than Campbell IMO.

I agree with you, brad.

Spending another draft pick on a QB is the kind of behavior that guarentees the team will be awful forever. You really can't ignore other needs in hope that you catch lightning in a bottle (i.e., a Tom Brady in the 6th round).

Skins have drafted 1 QB every year since 2000 except for 2004 and 2006. TIt hasn't worked yet (we've drafted QBs high - Ramsey and Campbell - and low -Husak, Rosenfels, Hamden, Palmer, Brennan -) and it's insane to keep doing it.

Brad's list is dead on. We need (either FA or draft) to pick up:

RT, DT, OLB, OG.

Another thing that makes me wonder is if Bugel has anything left. I love the guy, but we haven't developed a young guy at all under his tutelage. We have spent SOME picks on the line, namely Molinaro, Wilson, Lefotu, and Rinehart, and none of these guys developed at all (hell, Rinehart is never even active). Even Heyer, who has the hallmarks of a good backup, hasn't seemed to get any better.

tribeofjudah wrote:Ok, I don't want to start a "worthless" thread so I will put it here.
The wife and I will be going to SanFran to see the Skins play the 49ers.

Do I.....
1. sell the tickets
2. go and support them - try to get some autographs
3. go undercover, in disguise


Looks like I will go with my #21 jersey and the wife will be wearing #47 jersey. I WILL SUPPORT THE SKINS.....HAIL

I will now cast my vote for Carolina to head into the playoffs......

PEACE AND CHICKEN GREASE.........

Sell the tickets!
Don't spend one penny on this worthless franchise!

I've long advocated for Russ Grimm to be our head coach. That'd fix the line.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I've long advocated for Russ Grimm to be our head coach. That'd fix the line.

Yea Yea...where is your apology???