The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

This was the topic of discussion this morning with Kevin, Riggo and and Andy.

This season is at a fork. There is no clear answer, no easy answer, nothing looks good. If we make the switch will it give a spark? Or will it send the team into a spiral? There are a lot of questions and no easy answers. What we need is an offensive spark and typically the only way to do that is a switch at QB.

Do we stick with Jason?
- Slow release
- Slower decision making
- Holds onto the ball
- Big arm but we don't go downfield much.

Do we go with Todd?
- Quicker release
- Quicker decision making...
but
- This isn't Al's offense and he's just as new if not moreso than Jason. Will his pro's be negated by lack of experience.

Let's cut to the truth here for a second and cut out the Joe Gibbs make me wanna feel good B&G lovefest...

We CAN'T score. We WON'T score more than 10 points against the Ravens (if Swishy can manage to make a FG) with the current offense in place. So we have two options here...

1. Go down in flames with Jason at the helm.
2. Go down in flames with Todd at the helm with an outside chance at hope.

I don't know what we should do. I'm no longer sure that Jason is really the QB of the future. Our WR's aren't going to magically start being awesome with Todd at control. Does benching Jason stunt his growth and hurt his pride? Does that mean the beginning of the Brennan era? Not a good situation.

It does not matter who is taking the snaps at this point, because the OLine is done. Maybe if we had some more rollouts it would help. Standing in the pocket, with the poor protection is going to get somebody killed, whether it's Campbell, Collins or Brennan.

A quicker release, ie. Todd (although Im not saying we should), would help that.

Jason cannot throw the quick slant...

I feel that benching Jason now would be a mistake. Todd Collins is a serviceable backup, but I'm a firm believer that his late season success last year came from an extensive knowledge of the offensive system rather than his physical abilities and decision making abilities. More than one time, Collins knew where the receiver would be prior to his getting there, and thus could pick apart defenses easier.

Jason has been hurt a lot by his receivers this year. There have been quite a few drops recently. Santana Moss is the only legitimate deep threat, and if you double cover him he's virtually out of the game due to his size. ey is a good option, but other than that there is no one. ARE has no business being at the #2 spot, and recently it seems like he can be counted on for dropping half of what is thrown at him (he's the 50/50 guy). Thrash shouldn't be counted on to catch much either. Thomas and Kelly are too new, and were very slow to start, but I see them improving.

Take away the 'skins running game, and you have a decent QB with only 1 legitimate WR to target on the field. Keep Moss and ey locked down, sell out to stop the run, and you have the recipe for beating the 'skins.

Let's not forget that this is a first year head coach, a first year offensive coordinator, and the first year in a new offensive system. Jason needs to spend more time learning the system as the new receivers mature, and benching him now (in my opinion) would hurt more than help.

I'm not saying that we can't have a late season surge, a few miracles, and a late playoff run, It's going to take everyone playing as a complete team, and a lot more out of the rookies. However, If that doesn't happen, let Jason finish out the year, beef up the lines during the off season (please dear god), and let's go into next season with a better understanding of the system, and a year of experience notched in the belt.

switching to Collins makes absolutely no sense to me, that move would do nothing for our immediate or long term future.

This team has done a lot better then I ever expected out of them this season. JC will be a great QB but he needs time to throw. We need more receving threats to make the passing game viable.

Oh no, CLL. Are you converting to the Church of RayNAustin?

PulpExposure wrote:Oh no, CLL. Are you converting to the Church of RayNAustin?

Note, nowhere in that post do I say one way or the other. I'm just bored and wanted to stir up some trouble.

If you want an answer out of me, I'd say... Jason is our starter and should be going into next weeks game. BUT...

BUT....
BUT....

If we've scored less than 6 points going into the half, make the temporary switch. What would they have to lose? Points? Can't take what you aint got!

I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Put a better O-line out there and at least one more legitimate recieiver and you have a very different team.

Yeah, Jason needs to get better, but its my opinion he's at least #3 on the list of improvements needed on this team. And Collins represents zero improvement potential this late and in this system.

ChrisHanburger wrote:I think you're barking up the wrong tree here. Put a better O-line out there and at least one more legitimate recieiver and you have a very different team.

Yeah, Jason needs to get better, but its my opinion he's at least #3 on the list of improvements needed on this team. And Collins represents zero improvement potential this late and in this system.

I agree with you. I'm not convinced Campbell is the "answer" as I once was...but I am not willing to lay all the blame on him when the offensive line is clearly playing poor pass protection, and receivers are dropping passes (or not getting open).

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:Oh no, CLL. Are you converting to the Church of RayNAustin?

Note, nowhere in that post do I say one way or the other. I'm just bored and wanted to stir up some trouble.

If you want an answer out of me, I'd say... Jason is our starter and should be going into next weeks game. BUT...

BUT....
BUT....

If we've scored less than 6 points going into the half, make the temporary switch. What would they have to lose? Points? Can't take what you aint got!

Whew!! I thought youi'd finally lost it

I don't care if they do it or not. No barking here. I'm just starting trouble. This is just something they were discussing here in the DC area this morning.

ChrisHanburger wrote:Put a better O-line out there and at least one more legitimate recieiver and you have a very different team.

That's not going to happen THIS year. So what can we change now that COULD make a difference?

Also, they said all that about the oline and WR's last year...before Todd took them to the playoffs.

The Dancing Bear wrote:It does not matter who is taking the snaps at this point, because the OLine is done. Maybe if we had some more rollouts it would help. Standing in the pocket, with the poor protection is going to get somebody killed, whether it's Campbell, Collins or Brennan.

Exactly!

[quote="
That's not going to happen THIS year. So what can we change now that COULD make a difference?

[/quote]

Well, I'd say net gain Collins vs Campbell is a minus. I guess, I'd have to say, though, that getting the 2 newbie recievers more involved has potential for immediate impact. IF they can run routes and IF they can hold onto a dangerous ball.

jbxrocker23 wrote:I feel that benching Jason now would be a mistake. Todd Collins is a serviceable backup, but I'm a firm believer that his late season success last year came from an extensive knowledge of the offensive system rather than his physical abilities and decision making abilities. More than one time, Collins knew where the receiver would be prior to his getting there, and thus could pick apart defenses easier.

Jason has been hurt a lot by his receivers this year. There have been quite a few drops recently. Santana Moss is the only legitimate deep threat, and if you double cover him he's virtually out of the game due to his size. ey is a good option, but other than that there is no one. ARE has no business being at the #2 spot, and recently it seems like he can be counted on for dropping half of what is thrown at him (he's the 50/50 guy). Thrash shouldn't be counted on to catch much either. Thomas and Kelly are too new, and were very slow to start, but I see them improving.

Take away the 'skins running game, and you have a decent QB with only 1 legitimate WR to target on the field. Keep Moss and ey locked down, sell out to stop the run, and you have the recipe for beating the 'skins.

Let's not forget that this is a first year head coach, a first year offensive coordinator, and the first year in a new offensive system. Jason needs to spend more time learning the system as the new receivers mature, and benching him now (in my opinion) would hurt more than help.

I'm not saying that we can't have a late season surge, a few miracles, and a late playoff run, It's going to take everyone playing as a complete team, and a lot more out of the rookies. However, If that doesn't happen, let Jason finish out the year, beef up the lines during the off season (please dear god), and let's go into next season with a better understanding of the system, and a year of experience notched in the belt.

This pretty much sums up my feelings, well said

I have never been a Jason Campbell fan. I have viewed his as a serviceable, at best, quarterback. I do not see him being any better than the many journeyman quarterbacks that float around the league each year.

While he is serviceable at best, I do not see any advantage in changing quarterbacks during the season. Let him finish out the year and look to next year.

To be honest, I would rather see Brennan out there than TC if a switch was made. CLL I agree that if we have less than 1 TD against Baltimore at the half then a switch isn't going to hurt anything. Our playoff hopes are still alive even if we lose to Baltimore, with Cinci, Philly and San Fran as our remaining games we should go 3-1 and finish 10-6. Not one of our qb's really knows this system better than the next, JC hasn't improved consistently, he appears that he will always be spotty. The rookie will be able to move around better out there and he seems to make quick decisions, he can put some power on the ball as well, unlike TC. [/i]

grampi wrote:

The Dancing Bear wrote:It does not matter who is taking the snaps at this point, because the OLine is done. Maybe if we had some more rollouts it would help. Standing in the pocket, with the poor protection is going to get somebody killed, whether it's Campbell, Collins or Brennan.

Exactly!

Ehhhh.... They said the same thing last year. It's amazing what decisive actions and a quick release can do.

TeeterSalad wrote:My 2 cents

Please only click submit, once. 3 clicks = 3 posts. 3 posts = 2 deletions.

Oline didnot play poorly in the first half ...JC has no deep ball....he's afraid to throw it and when he does his ball reflects his hesitancy..and oddsare very good he will be an avg QB..with that being said benching MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE..#1 The Front office needs to see JC's full season to even start thinking extension. Benching him at the seasons lowest point gives the Franchise no leg to stand on for the rest of JC's career..now is when WE TRULEY find out about a QB(ie: ELI circa 2007) ...Chips are down your play is bad and everyone wants ur head....If JC steps up and plays some of his best ball rest of way the Franchise learned something about the kid. And if he implodes ..well we learned something about the kid...BUT HE NEEDS TO PLAY and pick himself up from this mess AND MAKE PLAYS...people forget or don't know ELI manning played one of rthe worst games in NFL HISTORY last year ..he threw 4 picks in one game and 3 were returned for TD's!!!.NY MEDIA was destroying him!! But they stuck with him and look where they are now because they learned what the kid is made of.

I'm not saying JC will ever be that good ...or a SB is on the horizon...but he needs to play thru this patch of and overcome....if he can't we move on ...if he does..then maybe we talk extension..but not ROMO numbers

Please only click submit, once. 3 clicks = 3 posts. 3 posts = 2 deletions.

I realize that, had a little connection problem.

MEZZSKIN wrote:Oline didnot play poorly in the first half ...

I agree. They aren't stellar but they aren't as horrid as many make them out to be.

MEZZSKIN wrote:JC has no deep ball....he's afraid to throw it and when he does his ball reflects his hesitancy..

Now this is awesome! This is absolutely 100% true! His deep ball is overrated. When it's thrown it's not terribly accurate. Moss is almost always slowing down for the ball and it only results in TD's because they come off of broken plays where JC sheds a tackle and DB is looking in the backfield.

That being said, I will stir the pot some more.

Mark Brunell was able to hit Moss in stride better than Jason CAMPBELL!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YEAH I SAID IT! AND ITS TRUE! LOL

MEZZSKIN wrote:and oddsare very good he will be an avg QB..

I dont want this to be true.

I may have posted this in another thread, but RayNAustin is 100% absolutely correct. He said the same thing about 2 weeks ago and got torched on this board for stating the obvious. Jason Campbell is NOT, i repeat NOT a playmaker. Im not suggesting that JC sucks, but he is just not a guy that is going to consistently make plays. To me personally i have never really been sold on JC because to me he just seems to slow. Slow release, slow reads etc. To his credit, he has always said all the right things, and worked very hard. We as an organization haven’t done him any favors with all the different OC's and coaches, but Campbell has been in the league long enough for me to see he is not an ELITE qb, but rather a serviceable guy that can win some games and when he is on and things are going right, he looks above average. But lets face it. Throwing for 12 to 13 TD's in 16 games will NOT cut it. I don’t care how "mistake free" he is. How many 300 yard passing games does JC have under his belt? How many 3 TD games? You look at qb's like Jay Cutler, Romo, Mcnabb, Manning bro's, Aron Rodgers, Kurt warner, Brett Favre, Drew Brees etc, and you see they are always peppering in 300 yard multi TD games. Heck, throw in "average" or even Rookie qbs including: Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Tyler Thigpen, Chad Pennington, Matt Cassell, Jeff Garcia, and they Still have occasional big games. Sure they may throw a few more picks than campbell, but as Ray stated, campbell always leaves plays on the field. Am i suggesting that it is ALL his fault? NO. Obviously our receivers need to help a brotha out and hold on to the rock, but my point is that the QB is often a Catalyst. A spark plug, that when inserted, Infuses the whole Offense. Im not a JC hater. I love the guy. He is classy, and a hard worker, and I hope he does become a GREAT qb. But I feel that at this point, he is not Great, and in fact, just average at best.....

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This was the topic of discussion this morning with Kevin, Riggo and and Andy.

This season is at a fork. There is no clear answer, no easy answer, nothing looks good. If we make the switch will it give a spark? Or will it send the team into a spiral? There are a lot of questions and no easy answers. What we need is an offensive spark and typically the only way to do that is a switch at QB.

Do we stick with Jason?
- Slow release
- Slower decision making
- Holds onto the ball
- Big arm but we don't go downfield much.

Do we go with Todd?
- Quicker release
- Quicker decision making...
but
- This isn't Al's offense and he's just as new if not moreso than Jason. Will his pro's be negated by lack of experience.

Let's cut to the truth here for a second and cut out the Joe Gibbs make me wanna feel good B&G lovefest...

We CAN'T score. We WON'T score more than 10 points against the Ravens (if Swishy can manage to make a FG) with the current offense in place. So we have two options here...

1. Go down in flames with Jason at the helm.
2. Go down in flames with Todd at the helm with an outside chance at hope.

I don't know what we should do. I'm no longer sure that Jason is really the QB of the future. Our WR's aren't going to magically start being awesome with Todd at control. Does benching Jason stunt his growth and hurt his pride? Does that mean the beginning of the Brennan era? Not a good situation.

You lost me at Todd...

VetSkinsFan wrote:You lost me at Todd...

I'm sure you'll be able to find your way out the door then.

If we lose to Baltimore, and the season is more or less lost, I would not mind seeing what Colt can do. Collins is way to old and is not the future.